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Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 3,360 posts (3,366 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 4 Organized Play characters. 3 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

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Orthos wrote:


This is probably not the thread for you then, as this is 100% the exact opposite of the way many of us feel.

I disagree IMMENSELY that it is not good in practice, because it HAS been good in practice for me time and time again.

Monsters working on different mechanics from PCs was an annoyance that added to the list of things that drove me away from 4e and it will do the same here to many others if that's the route they choose to go.

This is absolutely the correct thread for me to be in, as it is a thread about monster creation rules. And just because I say something different than the echo chamber, that doesn’t mean that I don’t deserve to be heard. If you don’t like a dissenting opinion, that is very literally your problem, not mine.

But I think there is a misunderstanding on what my wants for monster creation are, so let me clarify.

A 20th Level Wizard BBEG should absolutely be built using the PC creation rules, because it is a wizard—though that doesn’t preclude the GM from giving that BBEG additional abilities on top of the standard wizard stuff.

But there is no reason why an orc should be given feats and class levels. Orc warrior with a feat? Why? If I want to make an orc stronger, now I have to give them more levels, and figure out feats, and other abilities? Why? It’s an unnecessary headache, especially when trying to do it on the fly so that out of a group of 10 orcs, the one stronger leader orc I’ve got to increase its level and figure out feats, blah blah.

No. Tie combat ability/saving throws/XP to the number and type of HD that a creature has. Want to make orc #10 the group commander? Give it 3 HD. Boom. Done. Want it to also be a spell casting orc? Give it the spell casting monster ability, and then add the XP bonus for that ability to the total XP.

But I’m 99% certain Paizo isn’t going in this direction so it’s a pipe dream.

I should probably write my own RPG rules.

Liberty's Edge

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Coridan wrote:

So, overall, I'm not too thrilled about what we're getting (Goblins as PC races? No thanks. Catfolk would be way more interesting to me).

My biggest fear though is that you'll use Starfinder's NPC/monster creation system. Which is awful. Please don't. Stick with the 3/3.5/PF system. All creatures should be running off the same ruleset.

No. 100 times no. As a GM I’m done with Pathfinder because dealing with all the stupid details with feats and skills and class abilities and blah blah blah that I need to do just to scale different monsters is fatiguing.

Simplify the monsters so they can be easily run on the fly would be a win. Monsters following the same rules as player characters is good in theory, but in actual practice isn’t.

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1) We need a treasure table. Treasure value based on CR doesn’t cut it, especially when GMing on the fly. We need the ability to roll up potential treasure items when we generate an encounter.

2) GP for XP.

3) Creature HD tied to creature size; creature combat/XP based on HD. Easily make a creature stronger by merely increasing HD, which in turn is reflected by XP reward. Creature special abilities have associated XP bonus, and creatures can be modified/advanced by giving them different special abilities.

For example: there is a group of attacking goblins, which are normally 1d6 HD. Instead of having all of them be the same, one can be made the group commander by giving it 3d6 HD and the ability to make two attacks in a round—and the XP associated with this special goblin is easily determined by looking up how much 3d6 gives and adding the XP bonus for the extra attack.

4) Generally, make things easier for the GM to run the game on the fly.

5) Character creation takes minutes, not hours.

6) Make rolling for stats relevant again by making the ability score modifiers non-linear. Rolling for ability scores is a core, fundamental element of creating a character. But, the bell-curve of the die rolls lose their importance when the modifiers are linear, thus leaving everyone to choose point-buy so they “don’t feel like they’re being left behind.

7) Treasure tables, quick character creation, fast and clear GM monster adjudication.

Liberty's Edge

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Brawldennis wrote:

Please Paizo, whatever you do, don't make this a clone of 5th edition. For me, one of the best things about Pathfinder is the amount of customization and complexity it offers.

Simplification isn't always a good thing.

Simplification isn’t a bad thing either, especially from the perspective of the GM.

Liberty's Edge

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Well, hopefully my group can get to this AP before we all die: we're only half way through RotRL, which we started in 2012.

The most important question which hasn't been asked yet is which member of the Vancaskerkin family is going to make an appearance?

Liberty's Edge

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Yakman wrote:
Lanathar wrote:
I envy the people who have the time and commitment from a group of players to ask about a way of stringing all 3 together !
4 if you add in Jade Regent.

Six if you include CotCT and SD.

Liberty's Edge

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CotCT has Easter eggs that tie it to RotRL (the storylines are not related, but there are some characters and references that have ties). Then you can run Second Darkness, which too has ties. Then once you run those, you can run Shattered Star which is a direct sequel to all three.

Liberty's Edge

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Spoiler:

Name of PC: Mudder Fokker Goblinkicker
Race/Class: Dwarf/ Ranger 10
Chapter/Part: Fortress of the Stone Giants/Raid on Sandpoint
Catalyst: +1 Dwarven Bane Heavy Pick to the face.
Story: The battle started well and coordinated, but as other giant attacks and the dragon began to occur, the party's tactics started to unravel and the group began to split. With the dragon being driven off and having enough giant and dire bear casualties, the attack was foiled, and Teraktinus began to retreat. Muddier, having already taken some lumps in earlier fights, maneuvered to intercept—only to come around the corner of a building to be facing head on with the retreating giant. The giant, in a frustrated rage, charged the dwarf. The dwarf, enlarged by a spell, made an AoO with his Lucerne hammer, doing a respectable amount of damage. The giant rolled a crit threat, then confirmed the crit, with his +1 dwarf bane heavy pick, which left the dwarf with negative thirty-something-I-don't-care-you're-dead hit points.

Fun times.

Liberty's Edge

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James Risner wrote:

Up to 41 people that have clicked FAQ!

Keep em coming!

I hope they respond with "previously answered", or something like that, because I just want to watch the world burn.

Liberty's Edge

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I believe one of the reasons stated as to why they don't do this is due to the limitations of the page count and the six-month release schedule. Essentially, the information required just for the high level stat blocks takes up so much space that they wouldn't have enough room left over for the adventure, considering all of the other stuff that is included in one book (page count limitation). They would have to have a seventh installment in the series, which obviously messes with the 6-installment cycle (release schedule limitation).

But you did say "experimental", so perhaps they could try making the AP without including the stat blocks, and provide the stat blocks as a separate free "GM AP guide" download—if you're willing to alienate the small minority of gamers who don't have access to the Internet and/or a printer.

Liberty's Edge

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One page of errata for a book that's 300+ pages long? That's pretty darned good!

Liberty's Edge

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Matthew Downie wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
the condition and the term "no actions" strongly suggest no movement
No walking long distances, but not 'no movement' as in paralysis. That you don't lose Dex to AC says that in your mentally confused state you can't make any planned or complicated actions, but you can still respond instinctively - or reflexively - to danger.

So, would you say that if you are making a Reflex save, that you are in a Zone of Danger? Or, more concisely, that you are in the DANGER ZONE!

Liberty's Edge

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You all do realize that this entire thread is irrelevant unless Tacticslion favorites all of his own posts, don't you?

Liberty's Edge

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Kthulhu wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Stefan Hill wrote:
Power of Imagination
Ironically, soon the people who watch the show will be in position to spoil it for the book readers.
And do you think the people who watch the show will do as good a job of keeping the secrets?
I hope so. And by that I mean I hope they bombard book-only forums and take utter glee in spoiling the books. Much as many of the book readers have done through the entire series run (admittedly, with a lot more vehemence in the first couple of seasons).

You know nothing...

Fortunately, I don't frequent those sites. Though, I'll probably have to avoid Facebook, YouTube, TV, and people.

Liberty's Edge

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Lorathorn wrote:

This thread has got me to think and write. Here lies the result.

Linkified

Made the link a link.

Liberty's Edge

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@Kudaku Sometimes the truth needs to be said.

Liberty's Edge

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In reality, the answer is "it depends on where the large creature is standing in relation to the corner and the target".

Liberty's Edge

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JohnF wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
You can't take 10 if the DC is greater than 10 and you don't have any ranks in it.

Why not?

You aren't going to succeed at the check, but nothing says that "Take 10" guarantees success!

There may be times when you actually want to do this. If the check has a DC of 12, and there's a penalty for missing the check by 5 or more, then taking 10 means you aren't going to succeed, but you guarantee you aren't going to fail catastrophically.

Because knowledge checks are trained, if you don't have any ranks in it, if the DC is greater than 10, you can't make the check in the first place.

A crafty GM would still allow a character to take 10 in order to not give away the DC, but it would be an auto fail.

Liberty's Edge

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Darkbridger wrote:

So even though Paizo has said they will be steering clear of kickstarter in the future, here is your substitute...

Buy out one (or more) physical copy of existing APs you want to see re-issued. You'll still have to buy the re-issue of course, and there's no guarantee it will even happen, but it's the next best thing (to direct feedback) to try and help along the chances of a particular re-issue happening.

In fact, the blog has a convenient list of potential purchase targets. ;)

Fortunately, I've already done my part and own both APs. Have you done your part? ;-)

Liberty's Edge

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The beauty of this discussion is a) that Paizo hedged their answer to this question a few years ago in such a way that there is a possibility that they would do another hardcover (however improbable that possibility may be), and b) if we fans raise up enough stink, Paizo will put out another AP hardcover.

So, really, the tone of this discussion needs to steer away from fantasy to reality.

Crimson Throne is the most logical choice (almost universally praised, 3.5, many volumes out of print).

Second Darkness is a good choice as well, though I think less as likely due to there being more available stock.

I don't know much about Legacy of Fire.

While there would be some good PFRPG AP candidates, they likely wouldn't even think about those until the 3.5 ones have been updated.

My 2 CP.

Liberty's Edge

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barry lyndon wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:

Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.

So:

Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.

Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.

Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.

Does this sound right?

Does the attacker get to do constrict damage straight away on a successful grapple?

From this link, it seems like the attacker's turn is over after the grapple until next round

Linkified

Yes, because the constrict special ability states that a creature does constrict damage on a successful grapple check.

Liberty's Edge

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Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.

So:

Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.

Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.

Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.

Does this sound right?

Liberty's Edge

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Sweet! This works! Though, I do say that I think my chart looks cooler. ;-)

Liberty's Edge

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The bigger question is: is everyone having fun? If yes, then I'd say everything is perfect.

Liberty's Edge

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The real question is "was this ever a question before the APG, UC, ACG, etc came out"? Because, to me, people are using things from these sources to muddy perfectly clear waters.

Liberty's Edge

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You know s!@$ is about to get real when people start to do sentence diagrams.

Liberty's Edge

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Bandw2 wrote:


and that is the portion about the bonus, sneak attack doesn't care if your qualify for the bonus or if the attack qualifies for the flank, just that the ROGUE, WHOM THE CLASS FEATURE IS TIED TO, is flanking or not and if the attack hit. Then add damage to it, it makes no reference to flanking other than the character "flanks" a target, not that the attack be melee or receive the bonus.

Well there is the catch, because when you are making an attack, flanking IS the bonus. You only get to add the sneak attack damage when you are making an attack, so all of this argument about "qualifying for flanking when not attacking" is a bit of a straw man argument—not "whether or not your target is flanked by two other allies", not "you're in a position to flank, but are not attacking", and certainly not "you're adjacent to an ally who is being flanked by enemies". No, it's "are YOU flanking your target when YOU attack".

So, when you are attacking, and you are flanking someone, you get a +2 to your attack. If something prevents you from getting a +2 to your attack (either an ally is not positioned properly, your ally is not threatening your target, and/or you are not making a melee attack), then YOU ARE NOT FLANKING YOUR TARGET. If you are a rogue and you are not flanking, you do not get to add your sneak attack damage.

EDIT: stupid iPad spacing issues.

Liberty's Edge

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When you make an attack, do you receive the benefits of flanking (of which, a rogue's sneak attack is certainly a benefit of flanking. As is the +2 to your attack)?

First, are you attacking with a melee weapon?
Second, do you have an ally that threatens your target (or, more precisely, does your target have another enemy which threatens it)?
Third, is your ally standing directly opposite of you from your target*?

If you answered "no" to any of the above questions, you do not receive the benefits of flanking.

* There are feats and/or class abilities which might alter the square you or your ally can be in to satisfy this requirement.

Certainly, there may be exceptions, but I can garuntee with absolute certainty that every "scenario" that has been mentioned so far in this thread can be properly adjudicated by applying these three questions.

Liberty's Edge

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Snorter wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
In my RotRL game, I declared that for the summoner in my group the symbol was the same symbol that keeps popping up in the adventure, and everyone is like WTF.
For added fun, if you're tracking Sin points, having the summoner's rune transform over the course of the campaign would freak them out even more.

Darn, Darn, Darnity, Darn! This is a great idea, and I wish I had been paying closer attention to "sin" from the beginning.

Unfortunately, our group only gets together to play maybe twice a year, so it's a bit difficult to go back and remember stuff like that. :-(

Liberty's Edge

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In my RotRL game, I declared that for the summoner in my group the symbol was the same symbol that keeps popping up in the adventure, and everyone is like WTF.

Liberty's Edge

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Its a trap. You design the trap to force you to stab yourself with a vicious dagger with the intent of it applying 3d6. Set the CR appropriately.


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MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Liberty's Edge

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RumpinRufus wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
He has nowhere to look to. He knows absolutely nothing about where I am. He still takes full sneak attack damage from me, but this level damage suddenly goes away?
He has a freakin' arrow protruding from his chest that literally points directly at you. I'm pretty sure he has some idea where you are.

Nah. All you have to do is stay hidden for a little while longer until the eye icon is closed, then you're good.

Liberty's Edge

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I've been flip-flopping in my mind and have thought about a few scenarios. I've come to rest on the "you can't change the action" side. Though, in the example of being tripped before moving, I would allow the character to crawl 5 feet. In this case, I don't look at crawling as a separate move action from moving, rather its costing you your entire movement rate to crawl those 5 feet.

Liberty's Edge

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Chemlak wrote:
I meant that the chart needs to go up to +7 size, to cover colossal creature with INA and strong jaw.

Don't need to, it's already there in the INA list.

EDIT: But it wouldn't be too difficult to put in a +7 column.

EDIT2: Ask, and ye shall receive!

EDIT3: You mentioned in an earlier post an example about a Terrasque with the young template getting enlarged. Using the chart, you know that the young template means that it is one size smaller than the base size, so go down the -1 column until you get to 1d8, and then you know that it should be 1d10 when enlarged.

Liberty's Edge

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blackbloodtroll wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
You can use a weapon as an improvised weapon.
If you're using it in a manner for which it is not designed.
Like, as an improvised weapon?

This is the only viable way a gauntlet can be used as an improvised weapon. Merely saying that you're using it in an improvised manner while you're wearing it doesn't cut it.

Liberty's Edge

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James Jacobs wrote:
Quotable words.

You heard it from the talking dinosaur, folks. If it ain't nailed down, sell it!

And they say that a Pathfinder doesn't provide that old-school feel.

Hmmm, now if we could only modify it to the "GP for XP" paradigm.

Liberty's Edge

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Like real life:

"Must eat healthy, must eat healthy, must eat healthy...oooo, I'll order the double cheeseburger and the chocolate cake".

Liberty's Edge

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Jodokai wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Yes, and they are okay. But the ability we are discussing does not fall into that category.

This is not one of those occasions.

Only because you don't want them to. They are exactly the same.

Or perhaps your applying a rule that shouldn't be applied in this instance.

Liberty's Edge

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graystone wrote:


If you mean that I don't enjoy and praise every FAQ then you'd be right. Most of the latest FAQ have not made me happy though I'm not sure what that has to do with a damage dice chart though.

For instance, point out a post on my complaining about the 10' reach FAQ. Or the 1/2 elf/orc FAQ. Or the SLA counting as spells/spellcasting FAQ. I only complain when I don't like/agree with a FAQ. You know, like everyone else.

It's not that you disagree, it's the manner in how you disagree and the tone that you use that is a problem.

Liberty's Edge

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Don't know, but even if the PDT puts out a chart, your posting history indicates that you'll still complain about it.

Liberty's Edge

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MATH!

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
What is so important about this ability that you need to argue for 300+ posts about it?

Dude, internet.

Liberty's Edge

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_Ozy_ wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:

If he gives you two, you got less than half.

If the requirement is that you must get half, then he has to give you three to meet that requirement.

Thanks for defeating your own argument.

Wrong, try again. We're inside Pathfinder here, and Pathfinder tells us exactly how to get half of 5. It's integer math.

How many lightbulbs do you hand me?

3. Because that's the only way you'd be able to get half of 5 light bulbs. Again.

And the analogous question is "give me fewer than half light bulbs" in which case I would hand you 2. Again.

In this case, we don't need to do interger math because we don't need a concrete result to use in further calculations. We just need comparative numbers. Nothing says that we MUST use interger math in this instance.

Liberty's Edge

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Meh. If the people would check their tone before hitting the submit button, there wouldn't be an issue. Of all the threads that I read in which people whined about SKR's tone, they deserved everything they got.

Liberty's Edge

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James Jacobs wrote:
Triphoppenskip wrote:
At what age did you start playing table top RPGs and what was the first system you played? Ever play Mordheim?

I started playing RPGs with the 1977 edition of D&D in 5th grade in 1982; I was 10 years old at the time.

I've never played Mordheim.

My parents had that, although they never played it. Theirs was a later printing that didn't have dice and came with "In Search of the Unknown". I can remember as a kid sitting on the floor for hours just examining the map for that module. When I got around to playing, I was probably around 12 and used that map in our first game.

So, when are you going to start working on that megadungeon AP?

Liberty's Edge

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Just a Mort wrote:


Lets assume our shadow has been hiding in the wall. It's up to gm fiat if you're considered denied dex. In which you just wasted a standard action doing nothing.

Perhaps I've misread something, but I'm not seeing what would deny a character's DEX bonus by having a shadow be in a wall. Incorporeal /= invisible.

Liberty's Edge

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Zwordsman wrote:

kind of.. scanned over the previous thing but wanted to input.

Order of operations.
You cast a spell. You gain the spell effects "number of rays"(depending on the spell)
you wield the spell's ray, and take a non-action attack with it (typically as part of the spell)
I remember somewhere someone saying that melee touch attacks recieve "free action attacks" but I can't remember where it makes mention of it
EDIT: Found it in Magus's spell strike.

But that would mean that since it's written the same way the same is true of ranged touch attack spells no?

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **
I've always thought it was weird people said you couldn't...

Because the rules say that ranged touch attacks can't be held:

Combat: Cast a Spell wrote:
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn.

EDIT: Bolded the relevant part to make it easier to see.

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I think it's reasonable to adjudicate it in such a way so that if the free or swift action doesn't involve something specifically prohibited by the condition, then it would be allowed.

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