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I respect all of your opinions downerbeautiful makes an excellent point like in the scenario for the Temple of the Emperyal Enlightenment, one of "my" signature games...if public groups were exposed to certain gaming material it could be a hard sell for a good time. I do not think I over focus on necromancy or the vile sway of haunts or ghosts beyond my numerous characters that are built on those themes. I do play Clerics 90% of the time, but I can take a hint and see how complicated this stuff could be. Paladin of Baha-wHo? made me tap. You are right,why anyone would even go there? I did think Seppeko (unsure of the spelling?) was epic, but I see why we don't use any of that in the game. Dark, Noir, Freaky(Black Waters), Foolhardy (Maybe) but I thought "The Risen" title was creatively powerful, but for the greater good I see the error of my suggestions clearly.
@ Nathan Hartshorn You've heard of dying in PFS right? Maybe the Osirian faction boon title "The Risen" for 5 or 10 prestige points or whatever it is? I just thought that people take the dying part of the game really harshly sometimes. I was asking everyone if there were any creative ideas out there to make the "dying" aspect cool and the Samurai suggestion was an example. The Good Lich example was another was to die at level 11. My apologies if no one would actually care to die, but failure in battle in Samurai lore is very dishonorable. I hoped to translate cool related stuff to "other" classes as well.
I tried to go here but I'm not a subscriber so... I get... "The requested URL was not found on this server, or you do not have permission to access this area." I played this game and got a free Gelatinous cube from Kyle Baird. I've seen it run twice by our State's Venture Captain, and gave advice three times for running it to our convention's GM's. Kyle gave it to me to run cold but we only had 6 that meet-up so I was able to play it twice back to back one weekend. I think in every game that map was very impactful to the way each party proceeded to the boss fight. I saw the Disappeared run cold and unread, and with the laziness of the GM not wanting to draw the dinner party out, the whole spirit of the game was crushed. That party needed the "real" map. When I run the Temple of E. Enlightenment, The Temple of everflame...having the real map means everything...drawing all above mentioned maps are so painful, and I love making maps. I respect that any GM can freestyle them legally, but I'm saying it's at a price.
Doug is right, I do play a lot of pregens. But we go epic or go home!!!
I admit it, I have softballing GM issues and TPK GMing concerns, I want dying to be "better" received.
Example: We should let Samurais kill themselves at 10th level (If they fail?) and get to 11th level for free, just to add dramatic flavor to the Society Games. We should RAW/Additional resource it...but just for this one specific window of time (lvl 10-11). I'm pretty sure after 30 games of credit we could creatively make a thread for each base and sub class "dying boon". This would not be cooler than the "Risen" title some factions bestow on you, but Ninjas and Samurais...need more love...not from me of course..."I hate ninjas" but everyone else should throw ideas out to make dying more enjoyable for these weaker classes. Rogues have been Abandoned by this game that I love, my 1st level Magus is a better Rogue than any rogue...I named him "Rouge" because new people both misspell and mispronounce this word really often. He uses true strike (5ft step in) then improved disarm if that is legal? I do it unarmed (no whip no flail) because I want to be able to hold the weapon and I roll high enough to make the enemy drop everything in both hands all of the time. I would never use the Steal Maneuver unless I was built like the pregen Merisel but modified for level 9. Feel free to post "any" dying boon idea. I like the "Good Lich" any spell caster at level 11 or 12. Wizard/Cleric/Sorcerer would be standard, but Druid? Neutral Lich? or Bard maybe? All of it would be bragging rights...what's the epitaph? What do you want on your tombstone?..... Sausage or Pepperoni?
The most powerful Monk is in 2nd edition......
@ Imbicatus Where are Fell Gnomes found? I'm not familiar and if it's legal...for society--I get happy.
@ FallofCamelot Let's Brainstorm...the 2 levels of this character's start for max damage. The flavor is up to you, even a weak Witch build would help the controller stuff...Color "Pray"..would be the most devastating as a Gnome sorcerer dip. Ercy the Gnome.....as in GNOME_ERCY!!!! (No Mercy!)
Zyphus is your God...Kinda Tongues? Diviner Seer...Augury. 90% chance to weal or Woe, no one rocks this like a witch with bones orCleric class Theologian? I say you go Las Vegas Magician, David Blane-Style Do HUMAN (with so many other races it would be better for break-ability..but...)
Take Misfortune
Extra Revelation Feat (Gift of Madness) Inquisitor level 2 with the Inquisition that causes accidents 1d8+1 save for half. Be a visionary like Chicken little, but be a Profit/Prophet..."I am the best with the puns..."
I'm old school, but I'd play the pregen game one. He might be old school and want every detail inspected and agreed apon but their is a landslide of information that he has to contend with. Different strokes for different folks.
I am a true recruiter for this system. I expect players to die game one or game two so they are not so attached to their characters.Some players would rather not play then die. Being empathetic, I announce it even if I'm proven wrong. "You guys are going to die!!!!!" This weekend we played a season three game, Storming the Diamond Gate at 4th level. If I was GMing and not just helping the GM, it would have been a TPK. The party had a Summoner, Hair Witch, Wizard, Fighter, Pregen-Gunslinger, Pregen-Barbarian. At level 7, like the other tables were playing, it's a TPK every time if I was the GM, without question. The GM misplayed a fatiguing effect in the very beginning which basically made the Barbarian unable to rage the whole game due to heat stroke for two points of subdual damage after missing a save. The fatigue should have only lasted as long as the damage lasted (2 points)and they used a wand of cure the first room in after the desert bamf. Meat shields to me never work to add any value to a party build, unless the shieldee is cool with it and the tactic is not forced. I think too many Bards and Spellcaster players expect someone stupid to go first. High AC Fighters, Monks with Mage Armor, I get it, but I've seen devastating traps, and readied actions punish this party position over and over again. This was one of those games. I feel that intelligent players will eventually learn from their mistakes, but to my experience some never do, some would never play the pregens ever, and nostagic players will argue facing rules and feats that have changed so dramatically in PFS, they bad mouth this stuff until they are blue in the face. PFS is a tournament, Pathfinder Legacy (not PFS), even RAW, is more attuned to the ways the Adventure Paths would feel, camping watches, hunting for game, the way Charm Person might work, getting drunk in a bar scene,etc. Even death in those days of ole to many, was just as fun. Being a hero was all that mattered, looting the bodies, and buying plate mail armor for 400gp. After playing for sooooooo sooooo very long. "Being Conan" might be impossible at the HellKnight's Feast, or the Disappered, or The Blackros Matrimony. I'd tell any wanna-be anything to make ten characters and GM often to reap the benefits of diversity. Lastly, the flavor of the faction missions was so powerful before this generation of Society, if your friend is confused by the "extra" details presented give him a heads up early that for whatever reason, the faction missions are whatever nowadays.
Doomdigger, my "-01 character" is up for pure adventure and would love to PFS-CSI where these things came from, and maybe reverse engineer the galvanizing technology as a rare new treasure for the greedy. (When attacked by cold damage doing at least 10 points, the wearer's AC increases by +2 and resists all damage (DR2) for the next 24 hours.) In a Reduce Person Loop platform built primarily for combating Glorian threats inside the brains of Lich Artificer Androids. The Invention of Fire: Chapter One- "Something wicked this way comes" would need a featured nemesis of the mundane. When the gods forged Dwarves the splashing embers became sentient and like a moth to a flame they are drawn to the residium in magic items like all Rust Monster-kin. Brian has created terminators to terminate exterminators. I see the 2 Int to represent a single purpose like a small brained gnat (mate-find water-avoid danger- mate). It's functional coding a mystery, like a micro-Dr. Suessian hearing of a who. Cold resistant tech would be just another material discovery, like Cold Iron, Mith, Silver, Iron Wood. Being a Dwarf, the unseen, maybe microscopic clues about these obvious forge threats would just be something new. Doomdigger believes that life is just a sum of your experiences, with the travel domain, the explorer has a new destination, just as vast and uncharted as space...."the small". Conquering the world one forge at a time might seem "overlookable" to the masses, but like traffic patterns viewed from outer space what if there was a rhyme or reason, a hive code mind, an alien nest base? The whole mod might be another Hellknight's feast scene to get funding for yet another world ending battle, but if we tend to make things in our own image, a construct army that has just arrived fueled by heat and magic would be a great introduction to something different. I see shades of other movies where the obsessed scientist was "right". The way we do Arcana checks we need a DC40+10 Plus the creatures CR to exist. Here you go. I feel designers can use the shrink ray as least as often as they used the tapestry. I think Androids can finally be introduced for legal play. I would play test these creatures and die, but an aberrant construct that has anti-gravity tech segmented and vulcan-magnetized weeble-wobbly anatomy bases that allow hover modes for table jumping might justify the anti-trip energy field. 83% of the game can be tripped, we need "less" flippable-trippable stuff. If you have ever seen a house mouse jump, about ten times higher than seems it should, I think these things need away to be mobile and hopping is very insectile. If Brian can use the Core and still give us something new, I can just imagine what the next round has him presenting. Judges do me a favor, send him through just so he can get Top 16 near his name block. Some of these items and creatures need way more work. I'm inspired to make monsters who don't care about the PCs now. I don't know how to vote, but I am DMFrank and I approve this monster!
Sissyl Rocked it!!!! Drack-o-dile!!! is a winner!
The Hawaiian folklore, the google maps trick, and yes the Velocigator...epic, epic, and Super Epic!!! I think "Velocigator" won. If I was at the table and we see a cool pic ok, but just saying that name makes you want to try to run like in Pitch Black when the female miner "didn't" stay down. The screeching the the echo-filled Swamp would scare me to my core. Swim-by attacks, "a gliding blindness" water displacement free action- like a jet ski wall of water, don't know the CR but toxic rot to "rust monster" a little bit maybe? The key would be Bluff-Wading in the water. Being still and buoyant, like bullying kids they poke a bit, then move on to better sport. The raptor association would suggest a "hunting party of these things". Make them unable to do melee damage, they have so much fun that they spend 20 minutes downing creatures and are vegetarian..vegan..gluten-free whatever. I would play them like swamp rough necks, they have no true role they just mess with you until you tap then they move on. I do like the Hawaiian toxic pollution lore even better though.
State of Gaming Table Address: "My fellow Pathfinders..." This guy Ben wrote: I get why GMs who run PFS modules are so grumpy all the time...they're not allowed to change the story-line. PFS would be amazing if they allowed you to run the game into higher tiers while keeping the players at the same level.
Then you're getting a good mix of players and GMs playing the game. Everyone then understands the complexity of the game. Okay, you're playing a Tier 3: As a GM -- we're expecting a TPK, therefore you do not get a lot for it. Then vice-versa: Okay you're playing the game normally so here is a few rewards and a bonus for bringing in a new player to the fold. That's how I would fix just about any RPG, but PFS specifically. That would-be amazing to see...
*********************************************************************** I feel that "Optimizing" characters is just another aspect that I have to deal with as a GM or table-mate playing PFS, it's a tournament game to me unlike the "Legacy" games I grew up on. Unlike the GenCon one on one games I lived for. I personally think I have the pregen player record for this very reason. I play with the best character builder in the game, so it's too easy to win 75% of the time. I get sad when the monk can Trip the whole village with vicious stomp.Season six writers -- "Wabbit Season"--When Alien Hunters attack!!!!(Whatever)... should consider revising the CMDs and CMBs in the modules, Kyra in Black Tentacles is laughable. Gibbering Mouthers should form a union. I want fame so I act silly, I was the first to reroll a Natural "20" and I miss the nostalgia of the good ole days having played longer then most of the players have been alive. Ben might not see GMs be able to freestyle, but it happens all of the time. Last convention we did like 145 hit points to the boss that had at most 60. I spiritual weaponed it while making a stabilization check (Nat 20-Of course). My proposal is a star for a Hard Mode system set up just like the GM stars system, if you see a 5 Star Player, expect "Epic". I just feel some great players never GM but even with one star, they get an added bonus to their rerolls and it gives the game a new way to inspire greatness.
The Crusader wrote: There is waaaay more than one way to get through any situation... Today buying pizza for the table "did not work!"
One more Gender Changing Option might be... Lirianne has set her sights on a life of adventure and faces any problems
If we all played Samurai, it would be cool to do the seppeku thing if we don't complete our faction missions.
Thank Dog (God?) Call your guy "Niff" Like a mispelled Knife....Awesome!!!
New guy be careful of CMD builds with your "cloth armor idea"... Wolves will trip you, monks will trip you, you might not want to stand for three Aos.
Mark Hoover you sound like an excellent GM. I wish you were here in Wisconsin. Mark, when you are done helping this guy maybe I can run one of your modules, or maybe you can help me make a Kobold themed game to lure Halflings into a dried out swamp of mazes bridges and traps. I'm inspired by the Dragon slayer release. I'd love the Gnome Rainbow Dragon illusionist (Force)-Color Spray, ruling the Shiny Scales-Kobold Kin and forcing them to manufacture a Gambit style traing course for Halfling adventurers- Below the Bridges in the Swamp of emptiness. Cramped spaces low overhangs, a lot of down climbing decents into Darkness. I could have the commonality of the party be no sense of smell like Dewey Cox-Walk Hard. To rescue the fragile Stink bulbs would be epic. People usually give the illusion of choice, but I've seen the nauseated condition and color spray own games. A Halfling hook might be freeing slaves , test of a guild initiate, bring the Gnome to justice, White Giant Undead Gator Trophy. Kobold historical records of the Drake of Horrific Hues, Seven Shaded Serpent, the Albino All-Father. I just don't know Kobolds well enough, what level should the boss Gnome be? I'd love "UnderBridge" to be a maze of vine and viciousness. Kobolds would stay hidden, hope swarm traps and thorn barriers would hold, but maybe if the characters all start ensnared in a net might be cool.
* paizo.com left hand side of links after you click on the Pathfinder Society icon on the homepage. -Apologies
I use a prep sheet and the "prd"-link on the paizo.com right hand side as a Pathfinder google. For this game everyone needs a mentor, or whatever, new players if they live to get to the table of swag, might not know to take the oil of magic weapon or any parcel so you should look up what the items do way before they get there. You should also read ahead to the final fight to predict the best tactical point to apply an oil or use a scroll. Know that Pathfinder Society is different from a regular game . We call it "Legacy" when the DM gives you more player options like the Rich Parent trait. You should know the difference by reading the Guide to Society play and the Additional resources. Be warned there is a landslide of information and the Crypt of Everflame is a Society game. If you run it with Legacy rules your players will miss out on 3 experience points (one level). If you guys are in a rural area with no stores or colleges, then you might have to travel, but good luck anyways.
I was reading the scaling for The Price of Friendship, I respect the great effort spent adjusting for four players. If this is the wave of the future (Season 5), I just hope they redo the pregens, or at least make 10 more. A 7th level Kool-Aid man summoner, a 1st level Stooge Monk with dirty tricks. The CMDs of Valeros and Kyra will have everyone off the deck of the Throaty Mermaid. I just "care" that new folks will never see high level games if they don't have broken builds and optimized stats. I do not want all "14's" either but if we as DM fiddle too much TPKs will hurt feelings.
PFS is like a box of chocolates. Season 4 bragging a six character design, earlier seasons planning for four, no one expects the Gnome color spray DC to be so high with misfortune and a wand of persistence. 4e is choreographed, this system, PFS, is so easily broken, the game designers will have a hard time planning 50 zombies doing anything. That Gnome sprays undead too. At Gen-Con, if he does not die, it's just fate, but a balanced encounter does not exsist. One trick ponies will stampede the game from now on. Welcome back to what killed 3.5.
When I ran it, I gave a sermon, just badmouthing how Pathfinders never obey or respect laws. How chosing a dirty blanket as the ultimate prize is par for their twisted course. Foreshadowing the haunt may or may not add value to the game. I did make my cultist sad that they were not enlightened yet and self-concious about the appearance of their hands.The Gnome found these feelings very enjoyable and exploited every second of their misery. Huaunts are a part of this game, my group just never got there for whatever reason. I didn't bait them, the other table was not so lucky. If a creative DM disagrees with your opinion so be it. It was a stolen idea, and now I'd have to disclaim it before I ran this module again. Mature themes- play at your own risk.
Freeport Insanity Rules are wicked. Have you seen the movie Limitless? Have you seen New Jack City? or Even Training Day? Have the team go in with something easy "Pesh"- the gateway drug. The skill challenge would be to get the Mwangi slaves to become "better" workers, say double the Wis damage, lower the addictive DC to 5 and then give them an anti plaque/toxin cocktail to keep the extra hit points but hire a Channeling poisin cleric who "positively" boons the "Hut"- the Hood neighborhood/ Shanty town. In this area (Golorian Colombia) the locals harvest the purest form of the "product", but the PCs have four things to achieve. A Necro-mist Rage Chemist/ Necromancer has chemically enraged undead crocadiles to fight raft master boatmen shipments and hijack supplies. His lair has the greatest Swamp technology on the planet to refine and mass produce the most prime product ever. Masking alignments and False life potions would get you in. The party is helped by a strung out Inquisitor who has lost his sense of justice. Insanity is a hard sell, so let the PCs "act" crazy. The best way to infiltrate is to understand that the city is 100% supportive of this activity. Everyone gets a cut, so the party should gather information on every aspect of the corruption in percentages so as they Scooby-Doo they have reports and ledgers and eye witnesses who will testify if you can keep the Undead goons away until the secret trail breaks. Nuetral and Good forces will frustrate the PCs. The Paladin horse- like in the movie Tangled, does not believe that the party is anything other than scum and will arrest them for a few nights in the River Brig. Undead Jello night means the Mighty Mold gets acidic revenge on all living things, the PCs rescue the Captian-Warden and from that the final assault can be designed. The Captain snitches and 100% of the corruption is revealed, but only if he lives to testify, (Boom!) the boat starts to sink and Chemically altered Undead Cracken and undead Stirges buzz in for blood. Restoring the area to "balance" means controlled-burning of the Amazonian forest. Rehab for side effects (nightmares-canabalism-ticks-stuttering-magic witch hair growth)and whatever never really cures anything. But the Life Orchid Mythology should be whispered in the background but not disturbed. They never find the lair, never find the boss. It's adventure for the sake of roleplayed adventure. If at 15th level you can make Wisconsin "not" the dairy/badger state, I think the game loses credibility. Chemistry and the like go nuts with free expression, but we had a party member make the Blackros matriarch fall in love with him in a PFS, it was funny but, how many Blackros games can this system cook up? It will forever taint the landscape. This idea just taints the PCs in insane failure, and I hate mind control so I'd leave it up to them how crazy they get. Someone needs to make a Diplomacy check eventually would be my warning!!!
Porphyrogenitus I have not heard from my mother in awhile... Did a tornado hit? I know years back there was a Playboy club there, Popeye's was a place for jumbo shrimp near the library, but as long as people chew juicy fruit and cheer for the Cubs, there will always be a "Lake Geneva". It's like Bill Gates never being broke again, those rich families picked that lake "forever". Gygax just happened to "live" nearby.
Kudos to Secane
I too went for a Demiplane quasi-real effect. The PCs approached a beautiful set of clothes washers in a glistening pool,just before the temple entrance, frolicking and folding robes, and unable to talk until a certain short time frame elapsed. They were described as a Halfling and Human having awesomely high charisma but with distinctly deformed and mutilated hands. Finally able to talk, they offer the party robes. Right at the door the Gnome admits he's evil and stares creepily at the party's hands. He claims to be on a pilgramage to become a better more enlightened soul, he apologizes for his past actions and hopes to attone with the help of the leader. My party was weirded out, faction missions were completed two steps in, and then I lead them right into a sermon. We had full temple maps printed out and I filled the chapel area will a lot of minis for effect. The leader preaches that the Pathfinders will not respect the rules, they will steal, and they should be assisted in any way possible so they can be out of the temple as soon as possible. After the mass briefings the party explores trying to do faction missions. I had the training room master old and asleep, and like thai chi, I hinted that the exercises could be mimiced but the guy was narcoleptically dosing off. The party hated the Gnome, he lead them into the Garden and the trap missed, so the whole temple thought a player was the chosen one.It was so bad- so funny- so lucky. The forbidden areas traps are devestating. During the meal service none of my party ate. The other table tried to deliver food to the leader which is not allowed and it was softballed for them. My party never went into the haunted area, the Gnome freaked them not to really rest, they did the temple like a dungeon crawl so they got lucky I guess? You should plan for at least one player dying. Boss fight was strange tactics and you might playtest with 4 or 5 pregens, I had a problem with the guy's movement and spell selection. When I ran this Angel folk (aasimirs?) were rare, they can power the magic fountain which helps defeat the leader, but the bad guy aasimir guards are deceived. The other table had a boon player using the aasimir, but it wasn't obvious. I think I'm a good DM, but the way I played the Gnome was the highlight, I had the bloating boss, preach that the dumb pathfinders had a chance for the ultimate gift and they chose a dirty quilt (the hoa jin tapestry after the ruby phoenix tournament) I was on a roll. The key is to call out mass forgiveness. We forgive you for not being respectful, not following the obvious forbidden area sinage and if you jab in offending or Angel kin brotheren to the point of violence, you can sway the party to fufill the warnings and hook them into investigating openly. I put the Temple on one sleep cycle 14 hours of sleep "Beauty Rest". After one night then the party can basically go anywhere without being observed. The Heresy Points can really add up if you just do a lot of do not toch this "Pathfinder sinage".
Cold Napalm wrote:
Even as an experienced player Cold, you would love my DMing style, give the bossfight person a wand of Magic Missles or make it an Alchemist and I will make you remember what Quandry just wisely wrote: "... in general players need to realize when a tactical retreat is a good idea." I am goofy, and of course, the greatest player who has ever lived, so my recruitment ability goes beyond a pregen death. People respect my honesty at the table, buy the t-shirt (reroll), buy the portfolio(reroll), I'll buy you cursed dice, I'm rooting for the negative con threshold and hoping that you scream "In your face DMFrank!!!" when you win. Emotional play, dramatic dice roll reactions,I'm just being more intense. I take pictures of the 8 year olds' first Natural 20's and post them online. I think teaching Spartan style is appropriate, throw the babies off the cliff, if they make their reflex save so be it. In a previous post someone wrote something like the threat of death and dying heightens the joy of accomplishing the gaming goals in the end, but when it's all said and done I'm not too sure about that. I know a guy who went through two back to back TPKs fearlessly and asked me if he should play a Cleric in the future? It doesn't matter if he learned anything from dying. I immediately built a 20 con Wizard who just used the mount spell and rocked Season 4 game 1, a Samurai with a 20 con. We know the wand of cure light wounds breaks the game- and the classes that can use said wand after game one might have a better chance to live? But who hasn't been mauled unarmored by the mountain lion? If that guy now plays 4e becuase of me, we did, as a system, lose a lot when he made that decision, but he brags about my enthusiam still the same, and he invites me to sit as he DMs everytime I visit his home gaming store. He will return to Pathfinder,becuase of me, and he asks for advice all of the time to bring more excitement and to create the dynamic which is lethal. I do play every edition except Next, but "I'm the one to cross Chris Perkins over." Last game I called two failed will saves and a "14" on the reroll. I'm just saying new players have other gaming options, and the law of Primacy will have you reteaching the creative intinct that may or may not exist. If we let them go they need a better experience. Sink or swim, I just want the JAWs music no matter what. The books should be free, the modules should be free, they should pay the best players and Judges, to entertain the cybercrowds. Like the UFC, if I can knock you out every game then people will cheer. Give me everyone in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, the Paizo staff, Bigsby, Kyle Baird (any 5 star DM), Michael Jordan, it does not matter, I'll outplay, outlast, out rule, out everything anyone as modestly as possibly possible just one time, then I'll retire. You guys think recruitment should be something forced and contrived, intelligent people will feel manipulated, and resent silliness and we WANT intelligent players. If you tell a person that the attachment factor exists, they could luckily avoid death, but if you give them the "option" of living for any reason, how is that true to the Pathfinder system?
Quandry wrote:
Hindsight is 20/20. Retreat? Most fantasy gamers usually go the "For Frodo!"-hero route. It sounds like that party would/will go in "Chin-First" even if they had to run a lemonade stand for a day job. They care not if the lemonade is pink or has DR. I like the Escalator of Empereal Enlightenment...First Steps "Again"-idea at 7th level. "So you want to play a pregen?" If you guys have seen the youtube roleplay coach, the Dungeon B@stard, we all need to review basic stratagies from time to time. I think players either use the Skills and Knowledges all of the time or they don't at all. I'll bet that the DM who started this thread could suggest it, you could suggest it, I could also in the same game and some people will be like "I'll play my own character thank you very much." I know the Gary Gygaxian style is that we all die or end up outside the front door, until we guess right or prepare a little bit better with a ten foot pole, be it cold iron or not.
I would kill the game. The PCs are abusing your system. They will do this no matter what, no matter when, and no matter how. Forever. Historically, I'd say it's a 3.5 thing, but 4e, Pathfinder, I'm sure every system is nerfed by this style of play. It's not the books, the Core is so easily broken as well. I would find new people to play with. I know players like this,obvious poisin, people "hate" them, and they usually impress newbies day one. I think it's just another grey area of the game I love. But think "bragging rights and attention", Roll-play versus Role-play. It's a pissing contest. After reading the previous posts up until now, I now know where my group is getting these "new-to-me" broken ideas. Every character should be audited. I would state the problem openly, the point buy stuff is a waste, I'm sure you might be friends with these people or married to the spellcaster. I'd start over. But Power gamers can only be stopped by power gamers. I think that the writings on the wall, you knew this group was broken, and if they DM they will do the same in a non-Society game no matter which side of the screen they sit on.
DMFrank to the RESCUE!!! To start, three terms/words need to be universally coined, "golfbagging","softballing", and "Ghetto-crit". At sixth and seventh levels does the party need a putter?... No... but they might need cold iron, maybe silver, maybe adamantine... Golfbagging everything you need to fight creatures like swarms should be logical, and they paid the price, especially with the season five Devil's theme fast approaching. My stance is new players should die game one or game two, softballing any of these games helps no one. All of us will cry, eat characters, and the like if we become too attached, at seventh level, you are too attached. Mostly softballed tables crumble under pressure, we played that game and the most memorable thing that happened is the Gnome made the Blackros matriarch fall in love with him forever. If you roll max damage without actually critting, we call it a Ghetto-crit. It's rare but a reroll using a shirt and the portfolio rerolls, makes the games' unlucky periods kind of balanced. Imagine the boss badguy bursting into tears after the Witch uses misfortune. If you do not let the players see this tactically unlucky side of the game, I will at Gen Con. I think the person that died will always resent you. I would if you softballed it "after" you killed player one, does that even make sense to you now? Why would you? It makes you seem unfair and unsure. Did you make a mistake by flanking? I do not get why TPKing is never fated to happen at your table, statistically, with your players lacking resources, and obvious experience, it would. Playing the game at level one should be just as perilous as playing at level seven, if the party stays ready, they do not have to "get ready" during the final encounter of one of the greatest modules that we've ever roleplayed in. Like Dax, they are either too confident, or too complacent. I'm a very pessimistic person by nature. Weirdly enough, I'm not scolding you or molding you, it's a landslide of information, and you can not teach everything or know every rule. I'm just rooting for consistency. I argue that people respect dying, if Valeros dies, I cry inside, missing the guy eight times has a consequence, getting bullrushed off the Throaty Mermaid was new, but if all of "MY" bad luck makes the DM cry I'm confused.
"I was told that there would be no math!"
I've been Color Sprayed.
My two coins. Maybe we have to think outside the dry erase board. I think that alignment play is so hard becuase people who lack both creativity and a measure of intelligence play these characters without recognizing their true character definitions. They do not act appropriately, becuase their is no script for them. Everything they play is whoever they are in real life, masked by a Chaotic Nuetral scribbling on their sheet, becuase they think that that is card blanc to do whatever they feel like at the time. I believe that in real life, we are all a sum of all of our past experiences. Shaped, molded, and dedicated by our habits and principles. For example, universally, Batman is iconically a "Good" guy, but why? He is Chaotic or Nuetral beyond his don't kill rule. Both his Charisma and wealth, and not in that order, help him hone his intellectual goals to rightfully elevate him to hero status. He, in my opinion, is a crazy inventor martial artist, fighting crazy scientists and doctors. Batman is paranoid, not a symbol of law becuase the order part is missing. If Batman had therapy and the right meds, he would still act the same way. I sometimes play Lawful Great, not to channel negative energy, but becuase Nuetral Good or Evil is like the extreme left or right, and Chaos is counterproductive sometimes. I actually like, legal contract speak, and I like giving office hours and directions to the Chelaxian courthouse, or simply writing citations to watch the Gnome eat them ala the scene in the Breakfast Club. I think that knowing ( or creatively quoting imaginary rules) the rules sometimes is just as fun as breaking them. I am retired, but still play, and I don't think you can "coach" a new player under a landslide of information that is now the frontend of gaming these days. I just have people jump in. I have a Samurai who never speaks, becuase his edicts are to never lie, cheat, or steal. My backstory is brutal but more modules,feats and traits should support alignment play. I always thought for Society we could/can not play evil,did robbing a pregnant lady and the elders slip the watchful eyes of our bosses? Zarta, who I love, and her missions aren't so so bad, but "This I do for Taldor!" and anything Sczarni-related is confusing sometimes for rookies? I just feel like we are not managing wantingly evil acts as well as we could. Maybe banned play examples with associated consequences would help? Visually and dramatically, I love reading the scenes in the books, maybe, "Valeros, fakes his own death using 16 PPs, to regain his respect for goodness?". I know, it will never happen, but at GenCon maybe do Old school, Lawful Great table champion awards, boons, and kudos? If we had a small blurp on anything, thousands read it, but I'm losing hope as I see more newbies disregard any symbolance of focus on this topic.
Becuase you never last longer than a Half-Orc's snout. You should go straight hood, not bells...you fake Joker.
You did a lot of damage to your wife, but my knife does more! Lions and Tigers and Bears oh my...
I'm Hood in my Hood, with my Hood, with great stats. A D&D Dr. Suess... but I'm "Real" picture that. (*Snatches the mic- again, becuase it's 3:00am, Critical hit on a "15" - I'm startin' a trend, The "Lawful Greatest" on the Forum- just ask my kin, Bluff check + 11, you can depend on me friend, Sense my motive- speak with Ghosts-No "Booin'" from them. A..."2-Weapon Fighting 2-Pac", "Wesssst-side"-Golorian.)
DMFrank Sneak Attack it's About that time. Double Damage on these fools, in my Aura of Rhyme. Natural One- Bardic Check- if you reference the eighties. It's not SAFE to try to battle 'cuase all my faction's from "Haiti". DMFrank can't dance, I'm a man with no hat. My Dayjob- "TPK"- So whatchu' think about that? (FYI- My Profession is not a rapper)
The Meanest Guy in Prison (LOL-Basically any incarcerated theme, as I go to work this morning?)
The Nicest Guy in Prison.
What's up Sean, As a Venture Captain, he just saw a whole table of Chelish faction Hell Knight Gods!(I'm sorry I missed it, becuase I'm the best of them all.)I always thought that being Lawful Great was awesome. I think that the Paracountess is on her way out, but I will always call her resentful names openly, but secretly I love her all the same. Now I am as Chelaxian as you can get, so the Blood Drinker trait is just the best ever. I'm also a Sin Eater/Cleric/Oracle and soon to be GraveWalker Witch so I'm basically able to use Hold Person or Craft Macaroni and Cheese becuase I have Charisma, Wisdom, and Dexterity. Most min-maxers dump stats like (Int 7) so if they could have spoken the bandits' language the game would have changed. I honestly DM and see Knowledge Engineering come up too much. Disable Device comes up with the trapmaking and all that Tombraider stuff. Linguistics is rare, but Intimidate "should" be used if you get that gutt feeling that that's what the mission is calling for. But I say these pleading for you not to make this book, spy versus spy,is what it is. Half the fun "is" asking another faction member for help through cool roleplay. One game I had to get a pen and the other person needed the writ that authenticated the pen- we agreed to disagree about Halflings and we both won. At a dinner party, in Sean's first game ever playing as a player, I turned Sean's character invisible, while I was trying to impress the rich noble ladies for my faction mission.(Mission Accomplished) You can't put that in a manual and mark it "Andoran". As soon as you do, the writers will make you do a swim check, or a bounce-d check. The First Steps helps new players pick a faction, I'd root for Double Agents in the future, but you can not bottle creativity and versitility, honestly why would you want to? I want diversity, so what General Ghost aka the DeathMaster choses not to do DoomDigger might.
I saw the Barbarian with her Frost Giant sword in the Core-book and I was Ready to Rage!!!!! Instantly. I think that I could design a whole module conceptually, but with big books like the New Beastiary the weaker artists get owned and they should really strive for quality versus diversity. If Mr. Reynolds get's two dollars and free dice for each book, he should have a lot of dice before I'm dead. He does rock, and Paizo knows this. |
