Ok help me with the math here?


Advice

Liberty's Edge

ok so i had finished a scenario this weekend and was watching other tables and somehow a kitsune sorcerer hand munchined out a way to get a DC 17 color spray at first level. I have been going over the OGC site trying to figure out how they pulled that off and the highest dc i can come up with is 16 (+4 Charisma +1 spell Focus +1 level) what am i missing?


20 cha +5
spell focus +1
level +1

My gnome had an 18 dc color spray at first level. at level 8 I can get it to a 25 with MM.


I've been Color Sprayed.

Liberty's Edge

how did you get to 20 and survive?
In pathfinder society if you go with 18+2 =20 you end up with like 10s in everything else, or close to it. Is it really worth it considering half of the monsters in modules are immune? at least that i have seen so far? (undead, vermin, construct... all immune and i see them a LOT)


"I was told that there would be no math!"


I can colorspray undead, there are ways around that. Plus you can drop another stat below 10. My gnomes has a 5 strength. Magic is his muscle. Plus you can not build a character to do everything. Thats why you have a team.

DM frank knows.

Liberty's Edge

do tell, what are the ways around that. I am genuinely curious. I know about the undead bloodline. But other than that?


Threnodic Spell Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy) Change a mind-affecting spell so it can affect undead, but not living creatures (from ulitmate magic)

There is one in the dungeon delve book that just came out that effects oozes and slimes too, but since they are blind color spray would still not work, but you could do other mind effecting spells.

I believe there is a bloodline that can effect vermin with these spells too.

I went arcane because I felt that would be the best way to raise the DC and use MM.

Dark Archive

The Gifted Adept trait would make the level bonus +2. So:
Cha 18 = +4
Gifted Adept = +2
Spell Focus = +1

17


If the player had chosen wizard instead of sorcerer, they'd get Spell Focus for free and then pick up Varisian Tattoo for another +1 to spell level.


gifted adapt raises the castor level 1. Not the DC. That tatto also raises the castor level not the DC.

Gifted Adept: Your interest in magic was inspired by witnessing a spell being cast in a particularly dramatic method, perhaps even one that affected you physically or spiritually. This early exposure to magic has made it easier for you to work similar magic on your own. Pick one spell when you choose this trait—from this point on, whenever you cast that spell, its effects manifest at +1 caster level.

If you are a wizard in PFS you get spell focus for free. So you can get a tatto and spell specilaization and gifted adpat to cast a spell at level 5 castor level while being level 1. So for level dependant spells it is not a bad idea.

Scarab Sages

Finlanderboy wrote:

20 cha +5

spell focus +1
level +1

My gnome had an 18 dc color spray at first level. at level 8 I can get it to a 25 with MM.

Human Wizard:

Stat - 20 INT (+5)
Class - Spell Focus [Illusion] (+1)
Feat (Base) - Greater Spell Focus [Illusion]
Trait (Magic Trait) - Magical Lineage [Color Spray] (Reduces Metamagic Level by 1)
Trait (Qadria Faction/Campaign Trait)- Eastern Mysteries (1/day - Increase DC of Spell with a DC by +2)
Feat (Human) - Focused Spell [Metamagic] (+2 to Single Target)
Spell Level 1 (+1)

10+5+1+1+2+1 = DC 20 Color Spray to Primary Target, DC 18 to Secondary Target; 1/day, DC 22 Primary, DC 20 Secondary

Head into a Heavens Oracle to reduce the HD of Enemies by your CHA Mod so you can keep the effects of a full-hit color spray for a few levels longer.

Paizo Employee

neferphras wrote:
ok so i had finished a scenario this weekend and was watching other tables and somehow a kitsune sorcerer hand munchined out a way to get a DC 17 color spray at first level. I have been going over the OGC site trying to figure out how they pulled that off and the highest dc i can come up with is 16 (+4 Charisma +1 spell Focus +1 level) what am i missing?

Oh dear, if DC 17 is a problem, you're fortunate it wasn't a DC 20+ sleep spell then...Kitsune have a natural affinity for enchantment and not illusion after all.

Shadow Lodge

Answer: +5 Cha mod (18 Charisma BEFORE racial modifiers) +1 Spell Focus +1 spell level.

Seriously, 17 is NOT that unheard of for a dedicated spell-caster at level one, and I would HARDLY call it "munchkined out". Heck, my human Heavens Oracle has DC 18 on his enchantments at level one, by using his bonus feat for Greater Spell Focus.

Dark Archive

Finlanderboy wrote:

gifted adapt raises the castor level 1. Not the DC. That tatto also raises the castor level not the DC.

Gifted Adept: Your interest in magic was inspired by witnessing a spell being cast in a particularly dramatic method, perhaps even one that affected you physically or spiritually. This early exposure to magic has made it easier for you to work similar magic on your own. Pick one spell when you choose this trait—from this point on, whenever you cast that spell, its effects manifest at +1 caster level.

If you are a wizard in PFS you get spell focus for free. So you can get a tatto and spell specilaization and gifted adpat to cast a spell at level 5 castor level while being level 1. So for level dependant spells it is not a bad idea.

Ah, yes. Caster level, not spell level. That's what I get for shooting from the hip while half asleep.

Liberty's Edge

Arianrhod Thrice-Born wrote:
neferphras wrote:
ok so i had finished a scenario this weekend and was watching other tables and somehow a kitsune sorcerer hand munchined out a way to get a DC 17 color spray at first level. I have been going over the OGC site trying to figure out how they pulled that off and the highest dc i can come up with is 16 (+4 Charisma +1 spell Focus +1 level) what am i missing?
Oh dear, if DC 17 is a problem, you're fortunate it wasn't a DC 20+ sleep spell then...Kitsune have a natural affinity for enchantment and not illusion after all.

its not a problem per say, i just did not see how people were getting there. The answers seems to be, take a feat like spell focus, which i would have never considered before, and then gut your character to get one stat to 18 +2= 20. I usually play more balanced characters, no stats below 10 etc... Now i have to decide if its worth it to me to make a character that is a one trick wonder like that. Not sure i would have fun with that so need to dwell.

Shadow Lodge

neferphras wrote:
Now i have to decide if its worth it to me to make a character that is a one trick wonder like that. Not sure i would have fun with that so need to dwell.

Normally, I wouldn't; I tend to prefer buying my "primary" stat up to 16, before racial, as 18 is WAY too expensive.

But for a dedicated spell-caster, that 20 translates into an extra first level spell slot right out of the gate, plus the higher save DC; and with a Charisma-based caster, that also lends itself to social skills. You'll get a bonus second level slot just as soon as you get a +2 headband, and a third level slot once you upgrade that to a +4.

So, for a dedicated spell-caster, maybe. For anything else, aw H*** no.


neferphras wrote:


its not a problem per say, i just did not see how people were getting there. The answers seems to be, take a feat like spell focus, which i would have never considered before, and then gut your character to get one stat to 18 +2= 20. I usually play more balanced characters, no stats below 10 etc... Now i have to decide if its worth it to me to make a character that is a one trick wonder like that. Not sure i would have fun with that so need to dwell.

I believe in pathfinder you are a team. A team is best will specialized memebers that have spread specializitions. My 5 strength gnome uses control spells. His purpose is to stop enemies from doing what they want or plan with magic. Strength will not help with that. Granted it is a weakeness to have a 5 strength, but weighing 30 pounds he can easily be carried by the 18+ strength fighter type.

Liberty's Edge

I am not saying it is wrong to do that, i am saying i might not personally enjoy it. My alchemist has a 16 dex and int. And i tend to dominate any combat I am in and can take hit, have skill points its well rounded. If i had a 20 int, i would have been dead meat in many a fight so far. Not sure i want to play a one trick pony character is all i am saying. I do disagree that the best team is all specialized members. I might give it a shot, again dwelling. Specialized in this context seems to mean munchkined and i do not like that per say. To each his own i guess.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

"Munchkinned" would be having 20, 20, 8, 7, 7, 7 for your stats, which I've seen before. Having one 20, one dump, and four average stats still allows room for versatility.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Also, a common tactic in PFS is to max out your level 1 character for survivability and/or damage dealing and rebuild to something more adaptable by level 2.


Wizard and sor are infamous for only needing 1 real Stat. Push dc's and avoid combat damage until your defensively spells really come online around 3 rd or 4th.

Liberty's Edge

Yes, casters are the easiest to max out without crippling the Character.

7 Str
10 Dex
16 Con
11 Wis
20 Int
7 Cha

As an example Wizard. Is the character in bad shape? Is it worth making him more balanced? Lots of skill points, great hp for survivability.
Str is worthless, Dex means low initiative which is a shame but if you really want to improve it just take Con down a bit, or if planning on using rays then boost Dex to 14 and Con down to 14.

A sorcerer would be the same except Int would be what suffered so less skill points.

Course, if you really want to go all out, go Human, sacrifice the Feat and Skills to get two +2 stats to get Con to 18 with an Int of 20 to be a tough genius (or for 14 Dex, 16 Con, 18 Int)

Scarab Sages

Asteldian Caliskan wrote:

Yes, casters are the easiest to max out without crippling the Character.

7 Str
10 Dex
16 Con
11 Wis
20 Int
7 Cha

As an example Wizard. Is the character in bad shape? Is it worth making him more balanced? Lots of skill points, great hp for survivability.
Str is worthless, Dex means low initiative which is a shame but if you really want to improve it just take Con down a bit, or if planning on using rays then boost Dex to 14 and Con down to 14.

A sorcerer would be the same except Int would be what suffered so less skill points.

Course, if you really want to go all out, go Human, sacrifice the Feat and Skills to get two +2 stats to get Con to 18 with an Int of 20 to be a tough genius (or for 14 Dex, 16 Con, 18 Int)

Using your example build, and adjusting to maximize the efficiency of Color Spray, you can do this:

Level 2:
Divination Wizard 1 (So you can act in the Surprise Round)
Heavens Oracle 1

7 Str
10 Dex
11 Con
7 Wis
20 Int
16 Cha

Level 1:
Class (Wizard) - Spell Focus [Illusion] (+1)
Feat (Base) - Greater Spell Focus [Illusion]
Trait (Magic Trait) - Magical Lineage [Color Spray] (Reduces Metamagic Level by 1)
Trait (Qadria Faction/Campaign Trait)- Eastern Mysteries (1/day - Increase DC of Spell with a DC by +2)
Feat (Human) - Focused Spell [Metamagic] (+2 to Single Target)
Spell Level 1 (+1)

Level 2:
Class (Oracle) - Revelation (Awesome Display) - Enemies are treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier

Wizard Color Spray (1+2 INT Mod/Day) - DC 20 Color Spray to Primary Target, DC 18 to Secondary Target; 1/day, DC 22 Primary, DC 20 Secondary

Oracle Color Spray (3+1 CHA Mod/Day) - DC 18 Color Spray to Primary Target, DC 16 to Secondary Target; 1/day, DC 20 Primary, DC 18 Secondary

To all this, you can have the full effect of the Color Spray for either class up to HD 5, Medium effect at HD 6-7, and Stun effect at HD 8+.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Ok help me with the math here? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.