We are all concerned about griefing, it's been a hot topic for the past year. So we all respect your concerns.
Ryan and Lee are working very hard at implementing mechanics and game designs to keep griefing at a minimum. Will it work? Who knows really but I think their on the right path...
So yes please keep voicing your concerns.
By the way I thought running for my life outside of Minoc while leveling up in UO was a lot of fun, got my heart pumpin! What was even more enjoyable was when I leveled my Legendary Tamer 6x Gm and got my revenge!
You don't have to PvP if you choose not to... So what does that leave us with? Are you afraid of being killed by other players? Are you afraid of being killed by npc's monsters?
Did I say a single word about PVP in my post?
PVP, Crafting, Exploration, Territorial Ownership, anything. No one should be saying "if you don't like it, maybe this isn't the game for you" or "if you don't like it, you should find another game". That sort of thing should be being ruthlessly and mercilessly crushed. While they won't all get acted upon, or all even be considered, all opinions are at least valid. The act of intentionally trying to drive people away from the game just because you don't agree with their opinions on a given matter is just shameful.
The only time I have ever seen anyone in this community say "this is not the game for you" is about PvP. PvP is very much a part of PFO and will remain so.
You don't have to PvP if you choose not to... So what does that leave us with? Are you afraid of being killed by other players? Are you afraid of being killed by npc's monsters?
Did I say a single word about PVP in my post?
That was your underlining meaning yes. Atleast that's how I read it.
The part that *I* am most concerned about is the small handful of people who are already, before we've seen anything more then a tech demo, who are trying to assert that the game:
1) "is not the game for you"
and
2) "you should go find some other game"
Rather than trying to embrace the fact there are different desired MMO playstyles and encouraging the game be as all inclusive as possible of different desired methods of play. Is that not the point of a sandbox MMO? To try to encourage multiple styles of play and have the players create their own content by engaging in the activities they want to participate in?
You don't have to PvP if you choose not to... So what does that leave us with? Are you afraid of being killed by other players? Are you afraid of being killed by npc's?
In PFO you can play anyway you choose... Just expect to die a lot and often.
1. This is a Sanbox, no LFG Themepark WOW bank sitting waiting for pugs.
2. PvP will be one of two situations, either small groups of guild mates or a large organized group of settlement raiders.
Both of which will use ventrilo and will not be pugs.
3. When did installing ventrilo or Teamspeak become difficult?
4. In Game voice chat is rarely used, mostly from solo players and has nothing to do with organized game play.
5. Waste of resources and money! I rather have housing...
There's a part of me that really wants to read this as confirmation that there will be integrated voice chat that allows players to be heard by other players nearby. That part of me is kind of weird :)
I shutter at the thought of a small female halfling with the voice of a 40 year old dude.
^This
Please no in-game voices chat!!!!!!!!!! Talk about immersion killer...
what about rp racial slurs like for rock giants hating to be called block heads or elves to be caled knife ears . yes these are from other games but i'm just using them for a point. bluntly if we wanted to play a racialy or class intolerent character would it be allowed as long as it stays friendly and in game rp? I ask this because i am prone to call dwarf barbarians several bad titles refering to areas of hygene, excessive hair, and drinking preferences.
Oh, come now. The smart money says I am Blaeringr...
Dear Lord Baby Jesus, lying there in your...your little ghost manger, lookin' at your Baby Einstein developmental...videos, learnin' 'bout shapes and colors...
I was so happy when I read that interview ( still trying to locate it, Zam I think...) Not because its EQnext, but rather for the first time a big publisher publicly announced the sandbox revolution.
I've never been a big fan of EQ (I was one of the loyal UO players refusing to leave) but I wish them the best of luck.
Now we all know that Smedley just announced this to see what reaction he gets, test the waters a bit, but I think it's genuine. He's a longtime EVE player so I know he enjoys freedom in his games, and I hope that's what he plans on doing with EQ Next!
The sandbox revolution is finally here and I couldn't be more happier!!!
Ryan your going to have to step up your game now and make player housing (:
I'm no industry insider, just a guy who went to his first D&D convention at 10 yrs old in 1980, I had no idea who Ryan Dancey was, but after insulting the guy figured I better do a five minute search...
didnt even know about a living campaign fiasco...
when I looked up his name I got the refrence where he was the big pusher behind the OGL and predicted how this was going to be great for WotC.
later, on his own blog he then blamed the OGL as one of the main causes of the downfall of WotC, and how soon D&D would be nothing more than a hasbro tabletop boardgame. (is it just me that sees him working for Paizo as a little unethical?)
then I found this blog...
http://shutupinternet.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/ryan-dancey-is-destroying-ga ming/
I was shocked when I read the guy had been caught hacking into private emails of the GAMA board members to improve his chances for re-election,
(If he's going to mention his GAMA expirence, we deserve to know why he was forced to leave, all of this makes me seriously wonder if I want to give this guy my contact info and credit card numbers.)
These people seemed to have a much better insight into the MMO gaming world than I do and one commenter said this...
"Only one of them (Mark Kalmes) has any useful experience with MMOs (or computer games in a more general sense).
Ryan Dancey on the other hand is an actual liability, as he was the marketing director for EVE when they went silly on "micro"-transactions (infamously the $70 monocle that was virtually impossible for another player to ever actually see). You can read about that here or here. And it seems to be this guy who is the driving force behind the Pathfinder game, the Paizo blog has Stevens saying that he approached her directly after he left* CCP.
So it's a case of whether Kalmes can offset Dancey to give us a...
Old news... Same song and dance whenever someone wants to bash Ryan. Your a little late to the party as this topic has been brought up many times here on the forums.
Making it almost necessary to join an Organisation/Guild/Whatever it's being called
To the extent that the game has as a primary design principle "Maximizing human interaction", this is true.
I still interact with people in DDO, the only MMO I play (I tried WoW once but didn't like it), but not to the extent where I have to join a Guild to have a happy gaming experience. Because you did say "I think the biggest difference between theme park PvP and sandbox PvP is the need, in the sandbox to be a part of an organized force". Why should I need to be a part of anything if all I wanna do is meet up with a couple of friends and go on a Quest?
Im sure you can... You won't have to play transporter, you won't have to play territory control fighter, you don't have to do anything that's not fun for you!
Sandbox will allow you to play and be anything you want, your imagination will be the only thing stopping you.
Just because a lot of us enjoy PvP doesn't mean you have to, sure you might get killed by a player for one reason or another just like you will be killed by a Abyssal Paragon or Gold Dragon.
You will find in true sandbox games (if designed properly) you can play the way you want.
I'm sure Ryan will design a truely robust and exciting PvE experience for you, he understands how important PvE is for everyone. I'm a true fan of PvP for a purpose and I'm also just as much a fan of PvE.
I'm totally convinced that Ryan and his team at Goblinworks will provide a very rich and in depth PvE game.
It's been a few months since I first heard of this game, and I'm proud to be one of the 500ers.
I'll be quick : I just want to beg you. Do not let EA or some other satanistic society, make a random "theme-park-SWoWtor" of this game. Please. This industry need more innovative projects like yours.
Ryan has mentioned Goblinworks is not actively pursueing that kind of investor. I think their looking for investors not publishers!?
Publishers are really only good for one thing and thats Marketing. I dont think Ryan needs any help in that regard(:
I would like to see the ability for players to get away.
I agree. If "run away" is a meaningful option, we can train players to do so. Ideally there would be some aspect of the game mechanic that allowed you to execute a retreat within a narrow window of time, and if you did so, you'd almost always escape.
Obviously this shouldn't apply to ambushes, but rather to the situation where for example, a character is harvesting something and an unknown other character enters the area but before contact is made between the two.
Too many games with PvP end up with a situation where "running away" is never a viable option which breeds fatalism and defeatism.
RyanD
That sounds promising!
Valinar
Cool sounds like Ryan is open to the cat and mouse mechanic! I agree on the ambush, if you get the jump on your pray they should have to fight for their survival. But say your out killing mobs and you see a known PK'er, you should be able to get the jump on him by evading PvP.
I personally enjoy PvP and welcome it with open arms, but i have also experienced the other side of the fence.
I would like to see the ability for players to get away.
In Ultima Online I spent the first 6 months running my little butt off from RED's. At that point in the game I wasn't ready to PvP, I didn't understand combat well enough to ever win so I chose to run. I became very good at running away and avoiding PK's (player killers), i would only die maybe 50% of the time which in some regards balanced the playing field. The excitement of the cat and mouse was a lot of fun,sometimes I got away and sometimes I would take a deadly wrong turn.
I would like to see this in PFO, I would like to see a chance for non PvPers to get away, if they don't want to engage in PvP these players should have at least a 50/50 chance to escape.
It seems like a lot of people are concerned about the PvP aspect of PFO, I understand their concerns but I think it's more or less a case of not having enough experience playing in that kind of environment. PvP in PFO will most likely not be Darkfall or Mortal, let me explain.
1. PFO is not full loot, you only drop a portion of what's in you bag. No armor drop, no weapon drops. In Darkfall and Mortal as full loot systems, you as a player gain everything you need to play the game from full loot drops, in PFO item drops from PvP will be minimal at best.
2. In Darkfall and Mortal there is litteraly no PvE to speak of, all there is for combat is PvP. Ryan has made it very clear that PvE in PFO will be very robust and rewarding. You will gain more rewards and riches through PvE. Players tend to follow the path of least resistance and fortune.
3. In Darkfall and Mortal there are no safe zones other then in a few cities, and even in the cities you can be killed out side the gates, this leads to griefers concentrating at the front gates for the easy kill. In PFO the safe zones are going to be much larger, maybe 4-10 hexes in size, so the griefers will have to venture further out into hostile territory to get a kill. And we all no griefers don't enjoy risk, they want easy kills and don't enjoy being challenge by equal opponents.
4. Convenience! If you spend 30 minutes to travel out into the wilderness to hunt mobs or gather resources, I will bet that before you attack another player you will consider the fact that if you lose your going to have a long ride back. In PFO travel will be a huge determining factor for many players.
5. The size of the world! In Ultima Online the world is so large that you could spend hours hunting by yourself without ever running into another player, and in most cases that other player is doing something other then trying to kill you. Once again the majority of gankers in UO would camp out side of cities or teleportation stones, looking for the easy kill.
Get out into the wilderness and PvP does happen but in most cases it's a welcomed challenge. But once again in PFO travel restrictions will most likely be the deciding factor for PvP encounters in the open world.
6. Give players more rewarding features other then PvP and you will see a more balanced game. If PvE is more rewarding then PvP, players will do what's more rewarding for them.
If PFO provides its players with a rewarding and robust PvE and non combat experience we will have a great game.
Half the cost, half the time- Most indie sandbox mmo's take 4 to 6 years and 10-40 million.
Pathfinder will take two years and 5 million to make alpha.
First 2yrs developing the alpha client with cost of 2.5 mill a year.
Third year beta with payed testers, 4.5k every month for 6 months, open free to play12k players every month for 6 months.
Total players is 100k first year.
6 months x 4.5k subs = 27,000
6 months x 12k F2P = 72,000
27,000 subs at $15 month = 3.797 million
72,000 F2P at $5 month = 1.260 million
Total revenue third year beta = 5.057 million
So it cost 5 mill to make the game in two years, slow release the third year that generates 5 mill revenue. The third year beta cost 2.5m in development leaving 2.5m in revenue payed back to investors, buy the forth year all 5m is payed back to investors with a 2.5m profit.
In three years 50% investment money payed back and a profit of 2.5m!
Guardian of the Forest, Seeker of Truth, Slayer of Pirates.
When I'm not out roaming the forest looking for scum pirates to burn you will probably find me killing off invaders while my company harvests resources.
After making a fresh batch of Ale I find it impossible to resist the frothy goodness, in this case you will most likely find me along the shores of the Sellen River building watercraft, and of course killing more pirates!
AC 18/20(SoF), touch 14/16(SoF), flat-footed 14/18(SoF)
hp 23/23
Fort 1, Ref 5, Will 4
Energy Resistance: Cold 5, Electricity 5, Negative Energy 10
CMD: 15
OFFENSE:
Speed 30 ft
Melee: Dagger +3 (1d4/19-20/x2/PorS) or Shortspear +3 (1d6/20/x2/P) or Silver Lt. Mace +3 (1d6/20/x2/B)
Ranged: Dagger +5 (1d4/19-20/x2/P) or Shortspear +5 (1d6/20/x2/P)
Ranged: +1 Lt. Crossbow +6 (1d8+1/19–20/×2/80 ft./P)
Space 5 Reach 5
Base Atk +3
CMB +3
STATISTICS:
STR 11 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 19
Fetchling Racial Features:
• Type (ARG 109): Fetchlings are outsiders with the native subtype.
• Shadow Blending (Su) (ARG 109): Attacks against you in dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance.
• Shadowy Resistance (ARG 109): You have cold resistance 5* and electricity resistance 5*.
• Skilled (ARG 109): You have a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge(planes)* and Stealth* checks.
• Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) (ARG 109): You can use disguise self once per day as a spell-like ability.
• Darkvision (ARG 109): You have darkvision out to 60 feet.*
• Low-light vision (ARG 109): You have lowlight vision
Class Features:
• Armor and Shield Proficiency: You are proficient in Light and Medium Armor. You are proficient with shields (except Tower Shields).*
• Weapon Proficiency: You are proficient with all Simple weapons.
• Oracle's Curse (Ex) [Legalistic] (BoF 26): Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first. Once per day, you can make a vow to yourself that grants a +4 morale bonus on any one roll you make while trying to fulfill a promise made to another individual.
• Archetype: A planar oracle has an affinity with one of the Outer Planes. She is at home on the multiple planes of the Great Beyond, and can eventually become an outsider herself. (Replaces Spells, Level 3 Revelation, and Final Revelation)
Mystery - Lore
Class Skills: An oracle with the lore mystery adds Appraise, Spellcraft, and all Knowledge skills to her list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: (Replaced by Archetype) endure elements (2nd), elemental speech (4th), tongues (6th), planar adaptation (8th), plane shift (10th), mass planar adaptation (12th), shadow walk (14th), etherealness (16th), gate (18th).
Revelations
• Lore Keeper (Ex) (APG 50): You may use your Charisma modifier (+4) instead of your Intelligence modifier (+2) on all Knowledge checks.*
• Sidestep Secret (Su) (APG 50): Add your Charisma modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) to your Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Your armor’s maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma instead of your Dexterity
• Planar Resistance (Su): At 3rd level, you gain energy resistance 10 against one energy type associated with your chosen plane. At 11th level, your energy resistance increases to 20. (Energy Type: Negative Energy)
Traits:
Traits
• Resurrected (APMM 10): You gain a +2 trait bonus on saving throws against death effects. You do not die until your hit points drop to a negative amount equal to or lower than your Constitution score + 4.
• Spirit Guide (FoB 16): You gain a +2 trait bonus on Knowledge (religion) checks*, and Knowledge (religion)becomes a class skill* for you.
• Keen Appraiser (Custom): You gain a +1 trait bonus on Appraise checks. In addition, you need only exceed the DC of an Appraise check by 2 in order to determine whether the item in question has magic properties (although success still does not grant knowledge of the magic item's abilities).
Feats:
Extra Revelation (Sidestep Secret)
Combat Advice - Grant Ally +2 to Attack as Move Action
This +1 light steel shield is fashioned in the shape of a scarab beetle—a creature that functions as a psychopomp for Pharasma, guiding the souls of the departed into the afterlife. Scarab shields are especially favored by archaeologists and tomb raiders for the protection they grant against guardians and vermin frequently found in ancient ruins and forgotten tombs.
Once per day on command, a scarab shield grants its wielder a +2 sacred bonus on saving throws against fear and death effects for 3 minutes. At any time while this bonus is in effect, the wielder can end the effect as a swift action for a burst of healing energy. The wielder loses the saving throw bonus, but is healed of 1d8+3 points of damage.
In addition, a scarab shield can protect its wielder from swarms. If a mindless swarm attempts to enter the wielder’s space, the swarm must attempt a DC 11 Will save. If the save succeeds, the swarm can enter the wielder’s space and attack the wielder normally. If the save fails, the swarm instinctively avo s the space occupied by the wielder, completely ignoring the wielder for 3 rounds. This effect ends if the wielder makes any attacks, but the wielder may use non-attack spells or otherwise act without ending the effect. This ability functions once per day.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS COST 2,279 GP Craft Magic Arms and Armor, blessing of courage and life (APG), sanctuary.
SLEEVES OF MANY GARMENTS:
Aura faint illusion; CL 1st
Slot wrists; Price 200 gp; Weight 1 lb.
DESCRIPTION
These translucent cloth tubes easily fit over their wearer’s arms.
The wearer of these sleeves can, when she slips them on, choose to transform her current garments into any other non-magical set of clothing. These new clothes fit her perfectly and are always clean and mended unless she specifically designates otherwise. When she removes the sleeves, her clothes revert to their original form.
