Goblinworks Blog: Three Goblins and a Fighter Walk into a Bar...


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Web Product Manager

Added discussion thread for Goblinworks Blog: Three Goblins and a Fighter Walk into a Bar....

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Blog Post wrote:


"If you would like to meet with Mark or myself in person at the show for business reasons, please email us [link to contact page that doesn't exist yet] and set up a time. "

I needed that laugh today.

Goblin Squad Member

Woh, that's really cool. Fallen Earth is a really great MMO design, I'm just not a big fan of the Post Apoc genre...plus my computer wasn't running it very well... but there was alot of very cool stuff in that game.

On top of that Fadings Suns is my all time favorate PnP RPG and setting.
So if Lee had a hand in those products, my confidence level for PFO just got another big boost.

Welcome aboard Lee, Kieran and Dave!

Goblin Squad Member

Sounds painful. Maybe they should watch where they're going.

The web systems manager seems kind of an oddball position. Rather than hire a full-time web developer, you just want someone with connections?

Goblin Squad Member

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I'm really liking the models I'm seeing on the blog. This game is looking to have a great visual style. Keep up the good work.

Web Product Manager

Alexander_Damocles wrote:
Blog Post wrote:
"If you would like to meet with Mark or myself in person at the show for business reasons, please email us [link to contact page that doesn't exist yet] and set up a time. "
I needed that laugh today.

Whoops! That now points at the correct page. My apologies!

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:
Blog Post wrote:
"If you would like to meet with Mark or myself in person at the show for business reasons, please email us [link to contact page that doesn't exist yet] and set up a time. "
I needed that laugh today.
Whoops! That now points at the correct page. My apologies!

Don't apologize, I love those sorts of glitches. Inadvertent humor makes the world go round :)

Goblin Squad Member

The new hires are incredible! Kieran is one of the best out there right now.

Goblin Squad Member

Does the Animator position really require a high degree of experience with C, C++ or is that a mistake?

Goblin Squad Member

So, Ryan, how is xScape Platform from Icarus Studios working out as the MMO engine thus far? (if it isn't the engine, then the resume of the lead designer was a great distraction)

Goblin Squad Member

My old laptop died, and my old-old laptop that I was keeping just in case looks like it might just last to the weekend, when hopefully my new laptop will arrive. Based on the fact I'll be coming back to playing MMO's I spent a bit more than I had planned for something that has an i7 chip rather than an i5, a bit more RAM and a better graphics card - Acer Aspire 5755G Core i7. I hope it will be enough to do the game justice.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Fighter looks pretty good. And welcome additions to the Goblin team. Other than that kinda knew Goblin works would be at Gen Con in some shape or form already.

Goblin Squad Member

Goblin Works Blog wrote:
Also, there will be a Goblinworks panel Saturday at 1 pm, where we'll be talking about design philosophies for Pathfinder Online. There will also be a Q&A session at that panel.

I hope this will be recorded and posted in the next blog; particularly that Q&A session.


If it is xScape then it looks as though it could be multi-platform which would be great for handling things like mobile access.

Goblin Squad Member

I just hope there's no in-game advertisement... What a major turn off that would be.


I can't see that happening. Certainly not in-game. Feasibly perhaps some in the store interface, but that's OOC anyway. Let's not forget a lot of those features will be optional.

Goblin Squad Member

RE: If anyone has any smart questions and someone going to that Q&A can take down the most astute of these, that might be productive?! ;)

Goblin Squad Member

Gregg Reece wrote:
So, Ryan, how is xScape Platform from Icarus Studios working out as the MMO engine thus far? (if it isn't the engine, then the resume of the lead designer was a great distraction)

Actually that sounds to me more like confirmation that it isn't the engine they chose. They mentioned their first choice of engine went very far in negotiations, but fell through. The process was worthwhile because of some contacts they made in the process. That sure as heck sounds like a good contact that was made in the process of a middleware deal. Of course that isn't proof that this particular contact wasn't made in the deal they kept, it isn't really proof one way or the other.

Goblinworks Blog wrote:


We have finalized our middleware selection. The process was lengthier and more complicated than we expected. We first pursued a unique opportunity which required some fairly complicated legal maneuvers; in the end, we were unable to complete that deal, although we made some great friends along the way, and it's already clear that the effort will pay off in the long run in ways we didn't anticipate at the start.


Good point Avena; I'm in the UK so how many hours do we have until the Q&A kicks off?

From myself:

1. How well do Goblinworks envisage casual players , e.g. those of us with full-time jobs and families, being able to compete in Pathfinder Online? Can we expect to be able to maintain our own settlements along with the big guys?

2. Beyond the initial scope of release, how much of the world of Golarion should we expec to be able to explore within the first two and a half years?

3. There are obvious crossovers between the online game and the tabletop game; the Thornkeep book being the first. Can we expect to see this trend continue? Can we expect to see popular modules working their way into the game and famous events online being referenced in the tabletop game?

4. Are there any plans in the pipeline to offer alternative methods of accessing certain in-game features? Blizzard's Armory app would be a good example of the kind of interaction I'm talking about.

5. It has been mentioned previously that the gods will get involved in the game. What kind of interaction can we expect to see?

Goblin Squad Member

Great to hear about progress being made. Excited about the new editions to the team and all the hard work you guys are doing. Disappointed that the blog was short. Obviously itching for every bit of news available for this game.

Goblin Squad Member

i was like, man, short blog... the i was all... oh yeah, GenCon. prolly not a lot of time to get thqt blog post donein transit.

Goblin Squad Member

BlackUhuru wrote:
I just hope there's no in-game advertisement... What a major turn off that would be.

Exactly, I quit playing LOTRO not when they went F2P, but 2 hours later when I could not stand it any more; everything I looked at or clicked in the UI gave me options for what else I could do with only a few more bucks.

Goblin Squad Member

Whoa, seem to have gone blank on possible useful questions if any do get noticed, for the Q&A session:

Q: How will machines be involved in the Pathfinder world? Technology in general.

Eg:

  • siege engines - WAR
  • ships - TRANSPORT
  • wind mills, water wheels - PRODUCTION
  • roads - TRANSPORT
  • ploughs/pumps - FARMING

etc?

Obviously these are examples of machines increasing efficiency or enabling an activity -> require technology advancement/investment. /not familiar with Golarion and also these things fit into mmorpg economy/crafting situation.

Goblin Squad Member

For eg concerning ships, nations that developed a strong navy were able to dominate trade over vast areas in RL history, so I wonder if that River will be an area where ships battle to dominate the water traffic, something along those lines?

Secondly I wonder if the technological secrets of some process to make a machine might be another interesting spin with the creation of guilds of shipwrights eg and so on?

Goblin Squad Member

I was wondering if brands or such could be labelled on such machines as created by a guild. No brand, then no rights to the guild's claim on machine building?!

Also if books full of useful knowledge eg spells might be finite in circulation also?

Shadow Lodge

Having limited numbers of spellbooks would basically screw over anyone who came late to the party, and allow the early adopters to maintain superior power through both skill training and arcane firepower. I'm not convinced it's a great idea.

Goblin Squad Member

Kalmyel Stedwethren wrote:
Having limited numbers of spellbooks would basically screw over anyone who came late to the party, and allow the early adopters to maintain superior power through both skill training and arcane firepower. I'm not convinced it's a great idea.

Yes, you're right, like that it's a terrible idea!

But that's one of the definite problems of mmorpgs: Everyone is equal is just as bad as only the few at the top hold all the power? Because progression is meaningless in both cases (unless you're the lucky 1% in the 2nd eg!).

So I'm just curious what would be a suitable progression system for magic aka building up a knowledge system/"magical learning" as distinct from weapons and arms which require more "training" and experience? Obviously skill training/time + merit badges is the structure.

Just curious how "knowledge" in-game could be more of a mutable/jealously guarded concept?


If spellbooks were finite, it could be very similar to the Tech 2 Blue Print Originals in EVE - A minor few would have very easy access to them, while the majority would not. However, they somewhat solved that problem with the whole invention process, allowing people without the Tech 2 BPO's to still make Tech 2 modules, just slower and less efficiently.

In theory, they could do something similar in this game, if spellbooks with the more advanced spells were finite. One, is that those with the spellbooks could make scrolls and allow other people to put those spells into their own spellbooks. Unlikely this would happen on a large scale, and only their close friends would get the benefits of this (Or people willing to pay large sums of in-game money).

Another possible solution is to allow players without access to the spellbooks to be able to 'research' the spells using time and money (and appropriate skills). This would allow them access to the limited juicy spells. From then on, they could possibly sell it themselves, or if the designers wanted those spells out of regular circulation (I.E., something you gotta work for, unless you know a guy who knows a guy with a spellbook original), then they could make those 'spell copies' non-scrollable and non-transferable to other people. Basically make each wizard have to research that spell by themselves, if they don't own the SBO.

Just my 2-cents on the matter, having a wee bit of experience with EVE and having a slight obsession with D&D Wizards and their musty old tomes.

Edit: Or they could even go with the whole 'Randomized Spell Booster Pack' idea from that one issue of Order of the Stick.. Hehehe. I'm doing that to my Pathfinder players in this upcoming self-made campaign I'm working on..

Bit off topic though as the original article wasn't about spells.. XD I look forward to the next blog!

Goblinworks Executive Founder

'Limited' does not mean 'finite'. I would say that the worst option possible would be to have any major item needed for a major task be made out of coin (in other words, one item is added into the economy at the same time as only a large amount of coin is removed from the economy, in an easily repeated manner).

Spell scrolls or books which are limited because making one requires coin, rare inks, time, and either a copy of the spell already written or a research facility are still limited, but not finite. Include the option for damage to a spellbook analogous to equipment damage (to keep the magical scribes in business).

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
'Limited' does not mean 'finite'.

Yes. It's quite possible that the spell books could be limited to a certain number of drops per day or per month. This would not be finite; finite means there will only ever be a certain number of them, after which there are no more ever.

Goblin Squad Member

I guess if there is a limited number of magic-users who can hold a particularly power spell/book at any one time, that could be modulated by those magic-users requesting a duel with the forfeit/exchange of said "power" to the victor/challenger vs their penalty for loosing?! That would self-regulate a limited number of users of a particular book/spell. :)

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Any system where the loser of a match loses ability to win in the next one and the winner gains ability to win in the next one has a serious flaw.

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Any system where the loser of a match loses ability to win in the next one and the winner gains ability to win in the next one has a serious flaw.

I was thinking more along the lines of a ritualized duel according to some agreed traditional wizard duelling rules (eg The Once And Future King story)?

Perhaps the challenger could choose out of a range of options the kind of duel with witnesses and other terms/conditions to these duels. Duels of this kind would have to follow some sort of frequency condition also.

Hmm, gets kinda involved system... Hmm, maybe books can be used from an order of wizards' library with some stringent entry requirements - so books can be lent/used temporarily by a (s)elect few who've passed and sustain those requirements? Possibly a vote on increasing or decreasing the severity of tests by the order themselves also?

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Typically the challenged party in a duel has the right to determine the type of duel that will be fought, after which the challenger can back down. If that is the case, then only in cases where powerful spellbooks will change hands as the result of a duel is when both players choose for that to happen.

Of course, that means that people who aren't willing to take significant risks don't fight duels with those who are. If duels decide something else, like prestige or rank, then there's a fairly stable equilibrium possible.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan has stated elsewhere that the classic MMO duels (where no one dies) will not likely make an appearance in PFO. Can't cite immediately, but I believe the reasoning is with the idea of all combats are supposed to have consequences. Additionally, there's complications to dueling involving the safety of the areas around you. Since there will probably not be any "sanctuaries" where combat is forbidden, if you duel down to 1% health (or otherwise vulnerable) then you're opening up yourself to death anyway (and others to murder, likely your opponent).

Goblin Squad Member

I think you guys make a better case for ditching the duels system. Perhaps a special order or something to be able to use certain books which requires certain practices to be observed and adhered to to remain a part of the order?

Goblinworks Founder

The models look great.

I would like to see a controlled economy, if you set up your shop in a low population or economical village then that's what you should expect for your profits.

Unless people start coming to you for your skill and you slowly are the reason the town is growing with new npc shops coming in due to your and other PC's actions in that town. Soon as you leave though the town starts slowly reverting to it's original state without your contributions.

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