Petition: Change the errata policy


Paizo General Discussion


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Right now, we almost ever only get erratas when we have a new print of a book. This policy made sense a long ago, when internet access was uncommon and PDF version of books were so rare, but that is not the case any more.

With this petition I don't want there to be a constant stream of changes or balance passes, I would just want that erratas as we see today being published online before we get a reprint or even if we don't ever actually get said reprint. We know that we are getting some errata changes with the new core rulebook print, those could be online already. It's not like most people buy a new copy of every book after every new print, it shouldn't affect the sales that much, and it would let us play with the intended rules as soon as possible.

The adventures takes the worst hit because of how things are handle nowadays, since they almost never get reprinted. We get things like the Bone Croupier in Extinction Curse, that took 2 years to get fixed and in the end it was not with errata, but by reprinting the same monster in Book of the Dead. In the case of Kingmaker there are an outstanding amount of errors and since it's a new book we can't expect a reprint any time soon, leaving us with a lower quality book for years to come.


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Tootally agree with you. Modern times should lead to modern ways. Also having a blog section were this changes are discussed by the designers would be nice.


Starfinder Superscriber

Is there a thread where the Kingmaker typos/errors are compiled?

Director of Marketing

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Before this thread gets long, we already have a blog drafted and will post it in the new year. Thanks for playing Starfinder and Pathfinder.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

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Zullock wrote:
It's not like most people buy a new copy of every book after every new print, it shouldn't affect the sales that much [...]

Just noting, that's a wrong assumption. When errata rolls out, people actively avoid buying old printings, so you get pretty significant cascades where things happen like an FLGS getting stuck with 2nd printings they can't sell now that the 3rd printing is out, which then turns into the FLGS not carrying more of that product line because they see it as a bad investment, which can in turn lead to depression in sales for that entire market area as a result. Books like CRBs have incredibly long tails on them; CRBs are typically the best-selling product from a given edition cycle and continue outselling newer entries in the cycle for years. If a location stops carrying CRBs, sales of every other book in the line will plummet as a result.

That being said, we have been talking about some planned updates to the way we handle errata in the near future that can hopefully allow for more regular updates to certain types of content, specifically rules hardcovers and Lost Omens books. We're hoping the plan we're working on will allow for predictable and more frequent errata cycles across the product line in a way that won't undermine sales and may even encourage them, but that's an ongoing project with many departments involved in getting it put into place.

APs and modules exist in a different sphere and are less likely to be easily integrated into this process. The content produced in APs and modules is primarily intended for those adventures, and the content is produced on a magazine cycle with 12 monthly issues and up to two special editions (i.e. 12 AP volumes and up to 2 modules). More than that, adventure content is generally intended for the adventure it appears in and often speaks to the story in a way that means the content isn't necessarily easily fixed in a way that would make it appropriate for the wider game. Adventures also move on a very fast cycle that means that by the time an issue is discovered, it's not uncommon for the developer who worked on it and the designer who did the pass to already be on their 4th or 5th subsequent project since they last looked at the material, requiring a deeper dive back into the adventure. Sometimes it's something that's fine within the confines of the adventure it's presented in and only problematic when treated as being available in places outside of that adventure.

So, expect some pretty notable updates in the way we handle errata in the not-too-distant future but be aware that different types of content present different challenges. More frequent updates for hardcover books is a project we're actively working on. More frequent updates for AP backmatter is something with significantly more challenges and it is more unlikely that that kind of content will be seeing significant changes in the errata process.


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Michael Sayre wrote:
APs and modules exist in a different sphere and are less likely to be easily integrated into this process. The content produced in APs and modules is primarily intended for those adventures, and the content is produced on a magazine cycle with 12 monthly issues and up to two special editions (i.e. 12 AP volumes and up to 2 modules). More than that, adventure content is generally intended for the adventure it appears in and often speaks to the story in a way that means the content isn't necessarily easily fixed in a way that would make it appropriate for the wider game. Adventures also move on a very fast cycle...

This is a shame, since those kind of products are the ones that need a change the most.

We have things like the Six Pillar Dedication that we are told in the forums that are wrong from the beginning but the fix will come in January next year with the hardcover compilation, 2 years later.

Quest for the Frozen Flame doesn't give any striking rune in the whole ap.

Kingmaker has a ton of errors in the statblocks, encounters and treasures. Refering to items that don't exist in 2e, having enemies with crazy low or high stats for their levels and so on.

These are just some examples of the issues at hand.

I don't think we need substantial changes like changes in the history being told or the encounters, but what I think we need is that some issues, the most broken ones, that are acknowledged by everyone, sometimes even by Paizo staff in the forums or in other media, should be in a public errata.

These criticisms comes from someone that loves your products, I own most pf2e adventures since I like to read them and will continue to buy them, but I feel sometimes that their overall quality is cheapened by these issues.


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Starfinder Superscriber
Quote:
Quest for the Frozen Flame doesn't give any striking rune in the whole ap.

Yeah but is that an error or a stylistic choice you don't agree with? Quest for the Frozen Flame is very tight-fisted with loot up until you reach Hillcross in AP #3.

You can still buy/make striking runes, if you've got the gold. There's a Iomedaen blacksmith in the second AP who would be happy to make it for you. Getting one in the first AP may require some finagling or some improvisation by a GM (and I pointed this out as a criticism in my review) but it doesn't break the adventure.


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Here's another angle regarding the linkage between errata and book printing that hasn't been mentioned: layout.

It's easy enough for a rules-writer to look at something that's been written and figure out how it should change. Then there's the bit where the changes are checked to make sure they don't break anything else.

But part of writing the changes involves ensuring the changes can actually fit in an almost identical space in a physical book. With "web errata, book to follow", if you skip the desktop publishing page layout stage, you could release errata you can't fit in a reprint.

My point is: I'd think every errata likely needs to be digitally inserted into page layout before it can be released to the public, or you risk having multiple versions and wordings of the same errata.

Publishing is not easy.


Leon Aquilla wrote:
Quote:
Quest for the Frozen Flame doesn't give any striking rune in the whole ap.

Yeah but is that an error or a stylistic choice you don't agree with? Quest for the Frozen Flame is very tight-fisted with loot up until you reach Hillcross in AP #3.

You can still buy/make striking runes, if you've got the gold. There's a Iomedaen blacksmith in the second AP who would be happy to make it for you. Getting one in the first AP may require some finagling or some improvisation by a GM (and I pointed this out as a criticism in my review) but it doesn't break the adventure.

Any other AP would have given striking runes at that point so is most likely an error.Maybe it isn't, but since the issue haven't been acknowledged as far as I know I included it.

The camp in book 2 is not a settlement so technically you can't really buy things there and is up to the GM to allow it or not, which is fine, but it's placing more work on the GM and in the case of a newer one who doesn't know better it can result in no striking runes being given, which increases the difficulty since then you either need to craft oil of potency (money sink) or have the fights last a lot longer, making it easier for the players to be downed or die.

I am running it for my players without striking runes (told them in before starting the ap if they wanted me changing some things or if they wanted to try it like that and everyone agreed so) and they are having fun with the extra difficulty and so it can be clearly done this way. It's not game breaking but as I said, don't think is intended either.


Starfinder Superscriber
Quote:
Any other AP would have given striking runes at that point so is most likely an error

As long as wealth per level is being met, I really don't think it is!

Quote:
The camp in book 2 is not a settlement so technically you can't really buy things there and is up to the GM to allow it or not,

Are you saying that you believe characters aren't allowed to buy/sell things unless a location has a settlement statblock?

I looked up the rule on buying/selling items and it just says only during downtime and usually at half price for selling (unless it's a trade good)


Leon Aquilla wrote:


Quote:
The camp in book 2 is not a settlement so technically you can't really buy things there and is up to the GM to allow it or not,

Are you saying that you believe characters aren't allowed to buy/sell things unless a location has a settlement statblock?

I looked up the rule on buying/selling items and it just says only during downtime and usually at half price for selling (unless it's a trade good)

This is getting out of topic so let's stop discussingthis here, if you want we can talk in discord or in the frozen flame thread, but the point is that the settlement level is what decides what items are sold there, if it doesn't have a level I allow to buy only level 0 items. It's up to the GM.

From the gamemastery guide:

BUYING AND SELLING The game leaves it up to you to determine what items the PCs can and can’t purchase, and the final market Price for them. Settlements the size of a town or bigger typically have at least one vendor for basic, common gear, and even magic and alchemical items of 1st level. Beyond that, it all depends on how much you want to allow the players to determine their abilities and how much verisimilitude you want in your game.

MARKETPLACES Where there are people, there is commerce. The Buying and Selling section on page 24 provides several sets of guidelines for handling commerce in your game, but it can also be helpful to have a sense of what items and economic power a given settlement has on its own merits. In a given settlement, a character can usually purchase any common item (including formulas, alchemical items, and magic items) that is of the same or lower level than the settlement’s. Usually, fewer of the highest‑level items are available—you can use Table 10–9: Party Treasure by Level on page 509 of the Core Rulebook as a guideline for how many of the highest‑level items might be available, using the Permanent Items and Consumables entries for a level 1 lower than the settlement’s actual level. Inhabitants of a settlement can usually purchase items from PCs as long as those items are the same or lower level than the settlement, with limitations on higher‑level items similar to those available for sale. If a settlement’s population is significantly smaller than its level would suggest, its ability to provide and purchase items may be more limited.

Paizo Employee Community and Social Media Specialist

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I'm going to lock the thread for now, so has to head off any potential arguments. Look to to the blogs in the New Year where we focus on this exact topic.

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