Iconic Evolution: Amiri

At this point, I'm mostly just fascinated at how differently we see the art.
"Pear-shaped"? I know Wayne said that was the intent, but it's not something I see in that picture.

About the supposed discrepancy with Amiri's stats, note that STR is increasingly different from muscle strength.

High STR means hitting people more, hurting them more and carrying more Bulk, whatever the latter means.

Anyways Amiri isn't muscle-bound. She has a pear-shaped physique. She's slightly muscular from what little we can see of her midriff but she's skinny. Her strength comes mostly from her rage and her viciousness.

Just for one other point. Her strength may come mostly from her rage and viciousness, but I believe she's still statted up with an 18 at first level. She's supposed to be physically strong. Unless that changes for the 2E version of course.

If you think the art reflects that, that's cool, but here it seems you're suggesting that it intentionally shows that she's not particularly physically strong.

In the interest of moving on from reiterated points, keeping the thread on topic, and reducing clutter, a chunk of posts and their replies were removed.

There is some frustration evidenced here with the people who have opposing opinions, and a desire to convince others. Some of the more recent efforts attack the individuals who hold these opinions and a tone of frustration was building in the thread along with some derails.

Expressing your opinion or thoughts and discussing the content of the blog is what is expected here. The removal of the posts aims to reduce frustration, remove repeated points, and allow an opportunity to redirect the conversation to a more productive direction as some expressed they'd prefer, and I encourage.

Oh... wow. Very bad art of Amiri. Sorry to say that, but it's just awful.

I would just like to point out, normal swords dont weight that much even when they are greatswords (although it certainly is a problem to use them 1 handed); a giant sword (say 4* normal weight) would probably be difficult to swing 2-h and really hard to swing 1-h. The fighting style is also a lot about momentum and keeping the sword swinging.

Having said that, the body shapes don't really show the strength of someone. So using body builders (which usually spec only on carrying capacity) as a model of strength off. The best example I can think of is climbers, which have great strength overall, but they want to be really light to climb higher and more difficult areas; so they wouldn't really be bulky like body builders.

I think bodybuilders have not been used as an example. Instead, she was compared Olympic weightlifter and powerlifters. I don't think anyone can find anyone that can deadlift 600 lbs and looks lightweight.

I think bodybuilders have not been used as an example. Instead, she was compared Olympic weightlifter and powerlifters. I don't think anyone can find anyone that can deadlift 600 lbs and looks lightweight.

I think STR is now far from deadlift capacity

For doubling the size of something, you want to multiply by 8, not 4. You use your multiplier (2) and raise it to the power of each dimension you're increasing. That's assuming no major structural changes are needed for the increase in size. So you'd have a 40-64 pound giant sized 2 handed sword.

I'm relatively certain that Pathfinder doesn't expect you to be using the weapon as its use is described by most weapons historians. For instance, there doesn't seem to be an expectation that you would grip the sword just below the parrying hooks after closing in to melee. Amiri's weapon obviously makes that method impossible, but I think that's a general Pathfinder decision rather than an Amiri decision. It is possible that giants wouldn't worry about shortening their grip though, since they would typically have extra distance from their height and could make do with a stance change.

And, while body shape and strength don't correlate exactly, body shape is changed by what you do and how frequently you do it. That said, I don't think it would be a compelling fantasy to give Amiri a bad back from walking around with a 60 pound sword over one shoulder all the time, so some adjustments need to be made.

Yes you are right, adjustment to prevent bad backs would be good.

Weapon weight is weird, because while yes straight up increasing size would multiply weight by 8 (so the 6 lb bastard sword becomes 48 lbs), however realistically I can't see giant large weapons being more than times 6 (at the bighest).

Yes you are right, adjustment to prevent bad backs would be good.

Weapon weight is weird, because while yes straight up increasing size would multiply weight by 8 (so the 6 lb bastard sword becomes 48 lbs), however realistically I can't see giant large weapons being more than times 6 (at the bighest).

Well, realistically there aren't giants, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

Maybe they don't actually weigh that much. The square-cube law doesn't seem to apply in Pathfinder. :)

What I was trying to say anyways, is that even with a very high Str character, it's not like they must adhere to a certain body shape and muscle mass - sure, usually a Str 18 athlete will look powerful and muscular (though bodybuilders are a whole different thing!), but that's not the only option - someone could conceivably be very strong and not appear such until they crush your hand in their grip or punch you so hard you black out... a related matter is that a character's stats don't actually correspond to hard data. You can't figure out Ezren's IQ from his Int, and you can't calculate Amiri's exact maximum press from her Str - you can calculate Bulk, sure, but that's an abstract measurement considering encumbrance and weight, not just weight. Rules must necessarily generalize. Amiri is very strong. If you look at her, she's also very strong for her size. I don't see a real incongruence here.

Done, leave you to it.

If you are arguing from a semi-realistic point of view, then people doesn't get that strong without looking strong, that's for sure. And the picture doesn't match the criteria to me.

Now, Amiri is a fantasy character so she can be as skinny as she like and still be strong as hell.

People idea of d&d fantasy vary, not to mention their artistic preferences. That's why some people like the picture and others don't.

If you are arguing from a semi-realistic point of view, then people doesn't get that strong without looking strong, that's for sure. And the picture doesn't match the criteria to me.

I think that's really the crux of this... Amiri looks like some very strong people I've actually seen fight. Thus, I have no problem with it.

Nicos wrote:

If you are arguing from a semi-realistic point of view, then people doesn't get that strong without looking strong, that's for sure. And the picture doesn't match the criteria to me.

I think that's really the crux of this... Amiri looks like some very strong people I've actually seen fight. Thus, I have no problem with it.

Which I think is the crux of it, unless you're saying those strong people looked really weak.

Which I think is the crux of it, unless you're saying those strong people looked really weak.

We're perceiving the artwork differently.

Or we've seen very different people be strong. A lot of the people saying she looks weak, I mean... I got nothing for ya. 'Cause she doesn't look weak to me. In the slightest.