Cybernetics and Augmentations

Cool way to do ability score increases!

Are you able to spend multiple personal upgrades at on the same stat? Say I found an ancient belt of giant str for a +2 to Str at level 3, and then got a dose of str-boosting nanites for +4 str at level 10, would I have +6 STR?

I never asked for this.

I like this system.

Just a bit unclear, can you apply the +2 / +4 / +6 to the same stat for a total of +12, or does the +4 replace the +2 and the +6 replaces the +4, or do you give one stat a +2, one a +4 and a third one the +6?

If I get just a basic cybernetic replacement for a limb, say my arm gets cut off and I decide a cyberarm's easier than finding someone who can cast regenerate, does that take up the relevant system slot forever? Or do basic cyberlimbs allow for installations into them?

I never asked for this.

Yes you did, don't lie

If I get just a basic cybernetic replacement for a limb, say my arm gets cut off and I decide a cyberarm's easier than finding someone who can cast regenerate, does that take up the relevant system slot forever? Or do basic cyberlimbs allow for installations into them?

If I understood it correctly, you can simply replace the cybernetic, just pay for the new one.

Mashallah wrote:

I never asked for this.

Yes you did, don't lie

But did I?

Shisumo wrote:

If I get just a basic cybernetic replacement for a limb, say my arm gets cut off and I decide a cyberarm's easier than finding someone who can cast regenerate, does that take up the relevant system slot forever? Or do basic cyberlimbs allow for installations into them?

If I understood it correctly, you can simply replace the cybernetic, just pay for the new one.

And as far as I understood it you can have multiple mods in the same slot - so time for upgrades!

And as far as I understood it you can have multiple mods in the same slot - so time for upgrades!

Each augmentation has a system it replaces or modifies, such as an arm, the throat, or your skin. You can't have more than one augmentation applied to the same system—once you add a dragon gland, you can't also get a vocal modulator installed, as they're both throat system augmentations.

aww... misread that three times...to much hype...oh well, still a ton of possibilities
thanks for correcting me either way

So this gets me thinking: will transhumanism (transmortalism?) be a thing in Starfinder?

Are you able to spend multiple personal upgrades at on the same stat? Say I found an ancient belt of giant str for a +2 to Str at level 3, and then got a dose of str-boosting nanites for +4 str at level 10, would I have +6 STR?

No, but you can upgrade or swap out an augmentation for a higher-model augmentation. But each ability score can only have a single personal upgrade at a time.

I like this system.

Just a bit unclear, can you apply the +2 / +4 / +6 to the same stat for a total of +12, or does the +4 replace the +2 and the +6 replaces the +4, or do you give one stat a +2, one a +4 and a third one the +6?

You can't stack them. You CAN upgrade or replace lower-effect systems with higher-effect systems.

So if I have synaptic accelerators giving me +2 Dex, and I get a meditation crystal for +4 Dex, I can overwrite the +2 with a +4. Or if I am buying a new upgrade, I can do the same thing. Or I can leave my Dex and +2 and buy a new upgrade to get my Strength at +4.

But the limit is three ability scores, one at +2, one at +4, and one at +6.

Are you able to spend multiple personal upgrades at on the same stat? Say I found an ancient belt of giant str for a +2 to Str at level 3, and then got a dose of str-boosting nanites for +4 str at level 10, would I have +6 STR?

From what I thought they posted earlier there won't be any more 'Belts of Strength' or such?

There are no belts of giant strength in the core rules, or any similar temporary ability score items.

You can't stack them. You CAN upgrade or replace lower-effect systems with higher-effect systems.

So if I have synaptic accelerators giving me +2 Dex, and I get a meditation crystal for +4 Dex, I can overwrite the +2 with a +4. Or if I am buying a new upgrade, I can do the same thing. Or I can leave my Dex and +2 and buy a new upgrade to get my Strength at +4.

But the limit is three ability scores, one at +2, one at +4, and one at +6.

Ah, now I understand. Thanks!

Imbicatus wrote:

Are you able to spend multiple personal upgrades at on the same stat? Say I found an ancient belt of giant str for a +2 to Str at level 3, and then got a dose of str-boosting nanites for +4 str at level 10, would I have +6 STR?

From what I thought they posted earlier there won't be any more 'Belts of Strength' or such?

I was using 'belt of strength' as an example of a magic based personal upgrade slot.

Actually, the personal ehancers don't shock me as much as the ability score increases - Holy Lady of Graves!!! :-o

However, since it was said that feats and items granting stright bonuses were less common, I can see where you might want something like this - I'm in a "wait and see" attitude, hopefully all will mesh well together and characters walking around with a bunch of 18s and 20s won't look totally off the wall.

Kind of sad you can't buy magic items to replace ability scores, like belts of strength, it's such an ingrained thing it'll be weird to have a system that super limits by ability to increase stats.

However, I'm still excited to finally see the product and see how everything fits together in the final rules.

Actually, the personal ehancers don't shock me as much as the ability score increases - Holy Lady of Graves!!! :-o

However, since it was said that feats and items granting stright bonuses were less common, I can see where you might want something like this - I'm in a "wait and see" attitude, hopefully all will mesh well together and characters walking around with a bunch of 18s and 20s won't look totally off the wall.

The system actually makes it a lot easier to not be stuck with 8s, 10s, and 12s in secondary ability scores, but it doesn't make it any easier to have several 18s or 20s. It can be more difficult to have several of those, actually.

There are no belts of giant strength in the core rules, or any similar temporary ability score items.

Will there still be enhancement spells, such as bulls strength?

so tech and magic upgrades that have basically the same effect and the choice is mostly style...
And since it is not slot bound there are a lot of option how to design ones upgrade item of choice, right?

Actually, the personal ehancers don't shock me as much as the ability score increases - Holy Lady of Graves!!! :-o

However, since it was said that feats and items granting stright bonuses were less common, I can see where you might want something like this - I'm in a "wait and see" attitude, hopefully all will mesh well together and characters walking around with a bunch of 18s and 20s won't look totally off the wall.

I'm making some assumptions here, but it seems like this isn't the kind of game system where you can get away with having one stat incredibly high and everything else kinda bad. We've already been told in one of these forum posts that you don't gain points in point buy for decreasing stats below 10, plus with the seemingly higher emphasis on skills it seems like having low stats is not as much of a non-problem as it is in Starfinder.

ENHenry wrote:

Actually, the personal ehancers don't shock me as much as the ability score increases - Holy Lady of Graves!!! :-o

However, since it was said that feats and items granting stright bonuses were less common, I can see where you might want something like this - I'm in a "wait and see" attitude, hopefully all will mesh well together and characters walking around with a bunch of 18s and 20s won't look totally off the wall.

The system actually makes it a lot easier to not be stuck with 8s, 10s, and 12s in secondary ability scores, but it doesn't make it any easier to have 18s or 20s. It can be more difficult to have several of those, actually.

Thanks, Owen, much appreciated!

This raises another interesting question, though -- will Ability score generation lead to around the same array for 1st level PCs? (15,14,13,12,10,8 or thereabouts)? Or lower than this?

I ask because in our Pathfinder games due to high optimization and having around 8 players + GM, we've stuck to 10 point buy in our PF games to slow power creep. If Starfinder PCs start with ability scores comparable to PF characters, I might be looking at our first house rule. We'll likely play it by the book for the first AP to see, though.

I find it odd that the system is weirdly punishing for starting with a 17 in a stat.

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

There are no belts of giant strength in the core rules, or any similar temporary ability score items.

Will there still be enhancement spells, such as bulls strength?

No.

If we want to augment something ab ability score does, like extra damage or mental defenses, we have the spell do that, preferably in an interesting way beyond a flat number bump.

I find it odd that the system is weirdly punishing for starting with a 17 in a stat.

I'm wondering if there will be feats or other abilities that will have a prerequisite of a 17 in a stat. Being able to take those prior to level five may be a big deal, so it might make sense to take a 17 starting stat, even though you are breaking even with a 16 at level 5. You're ahead in the feat chain.

I never asked for this.

That's cool, i did though, outta my way!

This raises another interesting question, though -- will Ability score generation lead to around the same array for 1st level PCs? (15,14,13,12,10,8 or thereabouts)? Or lower than this?

Both around that level... and almost always very different from that. We handle buying ability scores differently (though we also have three choices of standard array, and rolling options).

I find it odd that the system is weirdly punishing for starting with a 17 in a stat.

Overspecialization is commonly punished in RPGs. There isn't anything particularly odd about that. My question is how racial starting stat increases plays into this particular stat increase system. For example, will a starting 18 in Dex for elves (assuming same racial stat modifier) increase +2 at 5th level?

Imbicatus wrote:

Are you able to spend multiple personal upgrades at on the same stat? Say I found an ancient belt of giant str for a +2 to Str at level 3, and then got a dose of str-boosting nanites for +4 str at level 10, would I have +6 STR?

No, but you can upgrade or swap out an augmentation for a higher-model augmentation. But each ability score can only have a single personal upgrade at a time.

Oh, i completely misread that then, i thought you could only have three ability score augments at a time... you are saying you can get up to a +6 mod for each stat? or am i misreading your statement and you can go up to +6 on any three of the six stats?

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Are you able to spend multiple personal upgrades at on the same stat? Say I found an ancient belt of giant str for a +2 to Str at level 3, and then got a dose of str-boosting nanites for +4 str at level 10, would I have +6 STR?

No, but you can upgrade or swap out an augmentation for a higher-model augmentation. But each ability score can only have a single personal upgrade at a time.

Oh, i completely misread that then, i thought you could only have three ability score augments at a time... you are saying you can get up to a +6 mod for each stat? or am i misreading your statement and you can go up to +6 on any three of the six stats?

Over the course of a character's career, beginning around 3rd level or so, they can buy one personal upgrade that grants a +2 to one ability score, one that grants a +4, and one that grants a +6. It doesn't matter if these are mystic ability crystals, technological synaptic enhancers, or some hybrid system, each character can successfully use only three of them, each at a different level of ability boost.

You can't have multiple +6's.

Really curious about the stat point buy and progression now, overly MAD doesnt sound like it will even be possible since you can add +2 to four stats at level 5... wow.

Torbyne wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Are you able to spend multiple personal upgrades at on the same stat? Say I found an ancient belt of giant str for a +2 to Str at level 3, and then got a dose of str-boosting nanites for +4 str at level 10, would I have +6 STR?

No, but you can upgrade or swap out an augmentation for a higher-model augmentation. But each ability score can only have a single personal upgrade at a time.

Oh, i completely misread that then, i thought you could only have three ability score augments at a time... you are saying you can get up to a +6 mod for each stat? or am i misreading your statement and you can go up to +6 on any three of the six stats?

OP wrote:

Over the course of a character's career, beginning around 3rd level or so, they can buy one personal upgrade that grants a +2 to one ability score, one that grants a +4, and one that grants a +6. It doesn't matter if these are mystic ability crystals, technological synaptic enhancers, or some hybrid system, each character can successfully use only three of them, each at a different level of ability boost.

You can't have multiple +6's.

Ok, so it is one +2, one +4 and one +6 to the stats of your choice but they will not stack?

Mashallah wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Are you able to spend multiple personal upgrades at on the same stat? Say I found an ancient belt of giant str for a +2 to Str at level 3, and then got a dose of str-boosting nanites for +4 str at level 10, would I have +6 STR?

No, but you can upgrade or swap out an augmentation for a higher-model augmentation. But each ability score can only have a single personal upgrade at a time.

Oh, i completely misread that then, i thought you could only have three ability score augments at a time... you are saying you can get up to a +6 mod for each stat? or am i misreading your statement and you can go up to +6 on any three of the six stats?

OP wrote:

Over the course of a character's career, beginning around 3rd level or so, they can buy one personal upgrade that grants a +2 to one ability score, one that grants a +4, and one that grants a +6. It doesn't matter if these are mystic ability crystals, technological synaptic enhancers, or some hybrid system, each character can successfully use only three of them, each at a different level of ability boost.

You can't have multiple +6's.

Ok, so it is one +2, one +4 and one +6 to the stats of your choice but they will not stack?

Exactly.

But if you have a +2 in a stat, find a +4 for that stat, you can swap to the +4 and that opens your +2 "slot" that you can then use with a different ability score.

If I have a base score of 16 and use a personal upgrade to bump that stat to 18, would I bump that stat by +1 or +2 at level 5?

If cybernetics only go so far, I may have to write a character theme focused on transhumanism. More augment slots, maybe some neat qualities that come from transitioning into a new mode of existence. I'll have to see what kind of power and balance comes from themes first.

awesome, got it :)

Will there be any flight/hovering cybertech or is that going to be a wear-able item?

Is it possible to have a 23 or slightly higher stat by level 3 if I use the +6 personal upgrade on my highest stat?

How many personal upgrade slots are available for a Starfinder character?

If I have a base score of 16 and use a personal upgrade to bump that stat to 18, would I bump that stat by +1 or +2 at level 5?

+2.

Augmentations aren't considered when determining if your every-5-levels increases is a +1 or a +2. (Otherwise you could be penalized for using an augmentation early, and we want people to LIKE their treasure and upgrades).

Sweet, thank you!

Mashallah wrote:

I find it odd that the system is weirdly punishing for starting with a 17 in a stat.

Overspecialization is commonly punished in RPGs. There isn't anything particularly odd about that. My question is how racial starting stat increases plays into this particular stat increase system. For example, will a starting 18 in Dex for elves (assuming same racial stat modifier) increase +2 at 5th level?

Overspecialization being punished isn't the problem being pointed out. You gain nothing by buying a 17 instead of a 16, but you do gain a tangible benefit by buying an 18. In fact, you seem to be punished even harder than in Pathfinder for assigning any odd ability score at all, it's super weird.

It seems like figuring out ability scores in general is going to be more complicated than in pathfinder, and the change to ability score enhancements punishes MAD characters.

ENHenry wrote:

Actually, the personal ehancers don't shock me as much as the ability score increases - Holy Lady of Graves!!! :-o

However, since it was said that feats and items granting stright bonuses were less common, I can see where you might want something like this - I'm in a "wait and see" attitude, hopefully all will mesh well together and characters walking around with a bunch of 18s and 20s won't look totally off the wall.

The system actually makes it a lot easier to not be stuck with 8s, 10s, and 12s in secondary ability scores, but it doesn't make it any easier to have several 18s or 20s. It can be more difficult to have several of those, actually.

Perhaps I am misreading the blog, but it sounds like someone with a 14/14/12/12/12/12 starting array who spreads out bonuses evenly would be 18/18/18/18/18/18 at 20th level. I don't know how easy a 14/14/12/12/12/12 starting array will be to get in Starfinder.

So there is at least one piece of cybertech that requires resolve points. Honestly the resolve points being how you use various options is interesting. I wonder if there will be a way to recharge resolve faster, or expand it. That or have higher end cyberware that simply does not require resolve.

You can tell that Galt never has any real influence on Golarion because they still measure movement in feet.

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

ENHenry wrote:

Actually, the personal ehancers don't shock me as much as the ability score increases - Holy Lady of Graves!!! :-o

However, since it was said that feats and items granting stright bonuses were less common, I can see where you might want something like this - I'm in a "wait and see" attitude, hopefully all will mesh well together and characters walking around with a bunch of 18s and 20s won't look totally off the wall.

The system actually makes it a lot easier to not be stuck with 8s, 10s, and 12s in secondary ability scores, but it doesn't make it any easier to have several 18s or 20s. It can be more difficult to have several of those, actually.

Perhaps I am misreading the blog, but it sounds like someone with a 14/14/12/12/12/12 starting array who spreads out bonuses evenly would be 18/18/18/18/18/18 at 20th level. I don't know how easy a 14/14/12/12/12/12 starting array will be to get in Starfinder.

You're math is incorrect I believe:

14/14/12/12/12/12 Starting
16/16/14/14/12/12 5th
18/18/16/16/12/12 10th
18/18/18/18/14/14 15th
19/19/18/18/16/16 20th

Is I how I see that ending...

If cybernetics only go so far, I may have to write a character theme focused on transhumanism. More augment slots, maybe some neat qualities that come from transitioning into a new mode of existence. I'll have to see what kind of power and balance comes from themes first.

Wait, did they define the number of slots somewhere? One per slot but i sounds like dang near anything is a slot... basically every organ or bodily system could be considered a slot it sounds like. and since they are on a tiered system you could get into really transhuman levels of stuff going on.

I think the slots will be somewhat limited by the availibility of the parts...but potentially every organ and some spaces in between them could be used