Cybernetics and Augmentations

I don't understand all the doom and gloom here. How are well rounded ability scores a sign of a "min maxer's dream?" Especially since there won't be many ways to boost a roll, I bet the average character still has lower to-hit or skill check bonuses than a mildly optimized PF character. Remember, magic weapons won't boost attack rolls, magic armor won't boost AC, there won't be any cloaks of resistance, etc etc

How is 18's across the board at level 20 well rounded? In ANY other situation, this would be seen as the worst form of muchkinism.

People have followed up with more uneven stat spreads that look to be a slight break to the "samey"ness at higher levels, which allays some of my issue with this. This is a problem I see with most Sci-fi systems, at high levels, base stats are one of the few differentiating factors, since tech is such a major equalizer. I'll have to see how it all plays out in the end, but boosting 4 stats every 5 levels just strikes me as excessive is all, it eliminates the need to choose whether to boost a weak stat or reinforce a strong one.

Now I am not a designer so I don't have all the insights that they do into how statistics influence things across the board, but I am a veteran player of 35 years, acting as DM/GM/Ref for 34 of them, and I have seen things that are great at lower levels break down at higher ones. Like I said I'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

caps wrote:

I don't understand all the doom and gloom here. How are well rounded ability scores a sign of a "min maxer's dream?" Especially since there won't be many ways to boost a roll, I bet the average character still has lower to-hit or skill check bonuses than a mildly optimized PF character. Remember, magic weapons won't boost attack rolls, magic armor won't boost AC, there won't be any cloaks of resistance, etc etc

How is 18's across the board at level 20 well rounded? In ANY other situation, this would be seen as the worst form of muchkinism.

People have followed up with more uneven stat spreads that look to be a slight break to the "samey"ness at higher levels, which allays some of my issue with this. This is a problem I see with most Sci-fi systems, at high levels, base stats are one of the few differentiating factors, since tech is such a major equalizer. I'll have to see how it all plays out in the end, but boosting 4 stats every 5 levels just strikes me as excessive is all, it eliminates the need to choose whether to boost a weak stat or reinforce a strong one.

Now I am not a designer so I don't have all the insights that they do into how statistics influence things across the board, but I am a veteran player of 35 years, acting as DM/GM/Ref for 34 of them, and I have seen things that are great at lower levels break down at higher ones. Like I said I'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Minmaxing usually implies dumping some aspects of the character to get others stronger. Heck, it's in the very name.

Leo_Negri wrote:

caps wrote:

I don't understand all the doom and gloom here. How are well rounded ability scores a sign of a "min maxer's dream?" Especially since there won't be many ways to boost a roll, I bet the average character still has lower to-hit or skill check bonuses than a mildly optimized PF character. Remember, magic weapons won't boost attack rolls, magic armor won't boost AC, there won't be any cloaks of resistance, etc etc

How is 18's across the board at level 20 well rounded? In ANY other situation, this would be seen as the worst form of muchkinism.

People have followed up with more uneven stat spreads that look to be a slight break to the "samey"ness at higher levels, which allays some of my issue with this. This is a problem I see with most Sci-fi systems, at high levels, base stats are one of the few differentiating factors, since tech is such a major equalizer. I'll have to see how it all plays out in the end, but boosting 4 stats every 5 levels just strikes me as excessive is all, it eliminates the need to choose whether to boost a weak stat or reinforce a strong one.

Now I am not a designer so I don't have all the insights that they do into how statistics influence things across the board, but I am a veteran player of 35 years, acting as DM/GM/Ref for 34 of them, and I have seen things that are great at lower levels break down at higher ones. Like I said I'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Minmaxing usually implies dumping some aspects of the character to get others stronger. Heck, it's in the very name.

This system promotes the opposite.

You're right this is more like MAX MAXING.

I have to admit I'm concerned about the impact of removing low ability scores on role-playing. After a few levels, every PC is going to be clustering around 16-17 with every ability score, and (I presume) most of this scores will be far above sentient average. So everyone is super smart, wise, strong, fast, etc., with the difference between PCs relatively small.

While I'm excited about most Starfinder changes, stat homogeneity is something I'm a bit worried about. Well, maybe not stat homogeneity per se, but the lack of interesting choices when applying stat increases.

In particular, I worry that, as in Pathfinder, there will be little or no incentive for many classes to boost Cha or Str. And so the four "personal upgrades" stat boosts will always go to the four stats that improve things everybody wants:

• AC and Ref saves (Dex)
• HP and Fort saves (Con)
• skill points (Int)
• Will saves (Wis)

Now, this won't be a worry if Cha and Str will now also contribute to something that everybody wants. But since we've learned enough about Starfinder to rule out the most natural possibilities, I'm starting to worry that this unhappy feature of D&D 3.5/Pathfinder will still be around in Starfinder... :(

Jhaeman wrote:

I have to admit I'm concerned about the impact of removing low ability scores on role-playing. After a few levels, every PC is going to be clustering around 16-17 with every ability score, and (I presume) most of this scores will be far above sentient average. So everyone is super smart, wise, strong, fast, etc., with the difference between PCs relatively small.

I'm excited about most Starfinder changes, stat homogeneity is something I'm a bit worried about. Well, maybe not stat homogeneity per se, but the lack of interesting choices when applying stat increases.

In particular, I worry that, as in Pathfinder, there will be little or no incentive for many classes to boost Cha or Str. And so the four "personal upgrades" stat boosts will always go to the four stats that improve things everybody wants:

• AC and Ref saves (Dex)
• HP and Fort saves (Con)
• skill points (Int)
• Will saves (Wis)

Now, this won't be a worry if Cha and Str will now also contribute to something that everybody wants. But since we've learned enough about Starfinder to rule out the most natural possibilities, I'm starting to worry that this unhappy feature of D&D 3.5/Pathfinder will still be around in Starfinder... :(

It was already confirmed CHA has no usage outside of CHA-based skills and class features of CHA-based classes.

Mashallah wrote:

Leo_Negri wrote:

caps wrote:

I don't understand all the doom and gloom here. How are well rounded ability scores a sign of a "min maxer's dream?" Especially since there won't be many ways to boost a roll, I bet the average character still has lower to-hit or skill check bonuses than a mildly optimized PF character. Remember, magic weapons won't boost attack rolls, magic armor won't boost AC, there won't be any cloaks of resistance, etc etc

How is 18's across the board at level 20 well rounded? In ANY other situation, this would be seen as the worst form of muchkinism.

People have followed up with more uneven stat spreads that look to be a slight break to the "samey"ness at higher levels, which allays some of my issue with this. This is a problem I see with most Sci-fi systems, at high levels, base stats are one of the few differentiating factors, since tech is such a major equalizer. I'll have to see how it all plays out in the end, but boosting 4 stats every 5 levels just strikes me as excessive is all, it eliminates the need to choose whether to boost a weak stat or reinforce a strong one.

Now I am not a designer so I don't have all the insights that they do into how statistics influence things across the board, but I am a veteran player of 35 years, acting as DM/GM/Ref for 34 of them, and I have seen things that are great at lower levels break down at higher ones. Like I said I'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Minmaxing usually implies dumping some aspects of the character to get others stronger. Heck, it's in the very name.

This system promotes the opposite.

You're right this is more like MAX MAXING.

Well, no. That would be 30s or 40s across the board.

Well rounded means being good at a lot of things. 18s across the board implies you're good at a lot of things. So again I would say that 18s across the board is the very definition of well rounded. But at level 20, it means you're not *great* at anything in comparison to the other level 20 characters that have "min maxed" so that some stats are significantly higher than others.

Maybe I can see an argument for a level 20 character who is above average (or maybe just average) at everything is munchkinism, but it's not a claim I would make.

I can't wait to get the book and see how it all works together. :-)

IonutRO wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

Don't forget that Pathfinder characters are trying to get reasonable to-hit chances with their -10 and -15 iterative attacks at high levels (while taking up to -6 for Deadly Aim or Power Attack), whereas Starfinder characters don't need to worry about those iteratives at all.

I guess. I've never really bothered with Power Attack or Deadly Aim, I prefer accuracy over damage.

Which is suboptimal and self-defeating, because in PF accuracy scales up far faster than defences do, making PA and DA no-brainers.

I never really cared about optimizing my characters. <.<

Don't forget that Pathfinder characters are trying to get reasonable to-hit chances with their -10 and -15 iterative attacks at high levels (while taking up to -6 for Deadly Aim or Power Attack), whereas Starfinder characters don't need to worry about those iteratives at all.

Personally I'm more concerned with the caster side of things. Higher spell save DCs, More high level spells per day, and more channels. Or whatever ability Solarians or Technomancers get.

Mark Seifter wrote:

Don't forget that Pathfinder characters are trying to get reasonable to-hit chances with their -10 and -15 iterative attacks at high levels (while taking up to -6 for Deadly Aim or Power Attack), whereas Starfinder characters don't need to worry about those iteratives at all.

Personally I'm more concerned with the caster side of things. Higher spell save DCs, More high level spells per day, and more channels. Or whatever ability Solarians or Technomancers get.

As far as I can tell, primary ability scores won't really be higher than in Pathfinder, while spell progression is lower.

Bigguyinblack wrote:

SFS will use a point buy system. Can we get details on how that will work? Ca we lower stats for extra points?

You may choose to lower ability scores if you wish, but you do not gain any additional points for doing so.

Nobody seems to have noticed that this answer really does not tell us much other than that you start out spending at least zero points in each ability score (plus or minus racial adjustments, according to First Contact). For this answer to mean anything, we would have to know what ability score an expenditure of zero ability score points gets you.

Actually, didn't somebody mention a choice of three starting arrays somewhere?

Yeah there was something, for me it read like 3 examples how your scores could look like

Mashallah wrote:

Leo_Negri wrote:

caps wrote:

I don't understand all the doom and gloom here. How are well rounded ability scores a sign of a "min maxer's dream?" Especially since there won't be many ways to boost a roll, I bet the average character still has lower to-hit or skill check bonuses than a mildly optimized PF character. Remember, magic weapons won't boost attack rolls, magic armor won't boost AC, there won't be any cloaks of resistance, etc etc

How is 18's across the board at level 20 well rounded? In ANY other situation, this would be seen as the worst form of muchkinism.

People have followed up with more uneven stat spreads that look to be a slight break to the "samey"ness at higher levels, which allays some of my issue with this. This is a problem I see with most Sci-fi systems, at high levels, base stats are one of the few differentiating factors, since tech is such a major equalizer. I'll have to see how it all plays out in the end, but boosting 4 stats every 5 levels just strikes me as excessive is all, it eliminates the need to choose whether to boost a weak stat or reinforce a strong one.

Now I am not a designer so I don't have all the insights that they do into how statistics influence things across the board, but I am a veteran player of 35 years, acting as DM/GM/Ref for 34 of them, and I have seen things that are great at lower levels break down at higher ones. Like I said I'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Minmaxing usually implies dumping some aspects of the character to get others stronger. Heck, it's in the very name.

This system promotes the opposite.

You're right this is more like MAX MAXING.

I dont think that term can really apply when the stat growth is an integral part of the system's math... Characters are expected to excel at their combat role, a skill role and a shipboard role (or two as some have suggested) and to do all of those roles well they will gain the stats to support them. If the system assume this and encounter design scales to accomodate it than the power growth probably feels very smooth. the big jumps i am expecting are when keystone abilities come online, adding weapon specializations at level 3 will probably feel like a noticeable jump, getting a +1 on top of skill points to a few derived values at level 5 probably not so much.

I suspect that players will still be able to max-max to some extent by dumping their full point buy into one or two stats, getting a species and theme that support those stats as well. But the long term pay off of doing that will result in a main stat that is only a +1 or +2 over a player that started with a 16 over a 19.

The big differences in characters will be where the augments go and just more generally, the character that has a use for charisma will be getting it into the 20s, the ones who dont need it probably wont be going above 14-16 over the course of a campaign. likewise, i dont seen many technomancers getting much beyond 14 strength since they would rather get the small boosts to DEX, CON, INT and WIS.

To help us picture how it plays out, can anyone remember the stat lines for the level 5 pregens? how homogenous were they?

So.. did we ever hear anything about a potential Caster firearm ala Outlaw Star?

I have nothing to confirm this but... Spells in Bullet form seem like a no brainer as a magic weapon or wonderous item. there is that spell to overcharge a gun that adds 3D6 damage, make them 500 creds per bullet and available at level 2 for the snipers to play with. By level 10 the frontliner can afford to carry a full mag of them for when they really need to clear the room.

They have hinted at something like a payload rifle and there were similar items in the Iron Gods/Technology guide so we know they have at least played with the concept.

It seems like all of the pieces are there, even if it isnt in the core book i expect we will see them before too long. (I also have a pet theory about Navasi's unstatted and never used pistol she carries around is a similar kind of gun)

Just because I can get all 18's in my stats doesn't mean I should. First that means I'm starting at 14 in my main stats, that means until I hit an augment or level 5 for I'm subpar. Sure you might be able to afford it. If you assume you focus on getting your main stat to 18 then after level 5 or 10 it only improves with augments, leaving you at a plateau. But the other thing is simply: my non diplomatic soldier would rather a +1 to str/dex/con than a +2 to cha. Like wise if I can make do with 5 (or however many) skill points, is that +2 to int really worth more than my main casting/attacking stat or or one of my secondary stats? Sure you can get 18's in all stats, but is it really more beneficial than focusing on 4 stats and getting those as High as you can?

Just because I can get all 18's in my stats doesn't mean I should. First that means I'm starting at 14 in my main stats, that means until I hit an augment or level 5 for I'm subpar. Sure you might be able to afford it. If you assume you focus on getting your main stat to 18 then after level 5 or 10 it only improves with augments, leaving you at a plateau. But the other thing is simply: my non diplomatic soldier would rather a +1 to str/dex/con than a +2 to cha. Like wise if I can make do with 5 (or however many) skill points, is that +2 to int really worth more than my main casting/attacking stat or or one of my secondary stats? Sure you can get 18's in all stats, but is it really more beneficial than focusing on 4 stats and getting those as High as you can?

Thank you, this gets across what i have been trying to articulate far better than i have been able. The most MAD builds i can think of still dont need all six stats maxed out, so given the option most players will focus on their main stats over getting everything balanced out.

I want to play a monk in SF. ;)

I want to play a monk in SF. ;)

So do I... I'm thinking you might get pretty close with an operative, or possibly a solder. It depends what combat styles or operative specialties might support it.

I want to play a monk in SF. ;)

Good luck coming up with a conversion for FoB in a system where "you never get more than 2 attacks in a Full-Attack" seems to be a core design tenet. You'll need it.

I will be most likely focussing 2-3 stats with varying intensity and drop the fourth boost flexible as i see fit

Lemartes wrote:

I want to play a monk in SF. ;)

Good luck coming up with a conversion for FoB in a system where "you never get more than 2 attacks in a Full-Attack" seems to be a core design tenet. You'll need it.

Flurry of Blows isn't a core thing needed for a 'monk'. What is needed is to be able to compete with armed fighters while unarmed and to be lightly armored and mobile. Flurry can just be the standard dual attack, possibly with a way to lower the -4 penalty like two weapon fighting.

The big issues to overcome are unarmed strikes being considered archaic, and damage scaling at higher levels. If a level 20 sword is doing 14d10, then being stuck with 1d3 is a problem.

It was already confirmed CHA has no usage outside of CHA-based skills and class features of CHA-based classes.

Which is a g#% d$@n shame in my eyes.

Really?! Did I miss that? Do you remember where?

(And I agree -- if true, it's a real shame.)

Lemartes wrote:

I want to play a monk in SF. ;)

Good luck coming up with a conversion for FoB in a system where "you never get more than 2 attacks in a Full-Attack" seems to be a core design tenet. You'll need it.

There have been some suggestions that high-level PCs might get additional attacks beyond two.

Mashallah wrote:

It was already confirmed CHA has no usage outside of CHA-based skills and class features of CHA-based classes.

Which is a g#% d$@n shame in my eyes.

Really?! Did I miss that? Do you remember where?

(And I agree -- if true, it's a real shame.)

I inquired on the matter on these forums and that was the dev reply. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact thread.

I guess everyone missed my joke that monks are a MAD class and since getting a ton of high scores is not very hard in Starfinder a monk might work well.

Granted a mystic Kung-fu cyborg might be cool. :)

I guess everyone missed my joke that monks are a MAD class and since getting a ton of high scores is not very hard in Starfinder a monk might work well.

Granted a Solarian cyborg might be cool. :)

I agree.

Lemartes wrote:

I want to play a monk in SF. ;)

Good luck coming up with a conversion for FoB in a system where "you never get more than 2 attacks in a Full-Attack" seems to be a core design tenet. You'll need it.

Not never. Very, very rarely, but not never.

Only three things provoke attacks of opportunity, and there will never be an exception. That's a never.

More than 2 attacks in a round is very rare and only comes from specific abilities, and even when it does in most cases it won't be your best option.

Mashallah wrote:

Lemartes wrote:

I want to play a monk in SF. ;)

Good luck coming up with a conversion for FoB in a system where "you never get more than 2 attacks in a Full-Attack" seems to be a core design tenet. You'll need it.

Not never. Very, very rarely, but not never.

Only three things provoke attacks of opportunity, and there will never be an exception. That's a never.

More than 2 attacks in a round is very rare and only comes from specific abilities, and even when it does in most cases it won't be your best option.

What about fewer attacks? We know there are sniper rifles and the operative's trick attacks... are there any special rules for an aimed shot or some kind of vital strike to make a "One shot, one kill" kind of build?

Going back to an idea that popped up in the guns thread, can i get special ammo in my sniper rifle, a friendly booster from the technomancer and make a shot heard around the table?

I mean. You have extreme need to have a really high stat in Starfinder anyways though. Your Resolve is your most important point pool by far and you only get half your level + your main ability score modifier points for it. It powers a lot of class abilities, lets you heal yourself, determines when you die, is used for certain cybernetics, and likely more.

While there will be a lot of generalism to a point, there is still a vast need to specialize. Very few characters will actually benefit from an 18 in every stat. Not really anyways. Not in a way that's meaningful to the character or story. Pardon me for using a game that is only partially related to Starfinder here, but there's very little use for a Wizard to have straight 18s when they could have an Intelligence somewhere in the stratosphere and a couple of dumpstats. While dumpstats will no longer be something of mechanical benefit per-se, it doesn't appear that anyone not doing melee will require much in the lines of Strength, and so an 18 there will largely be not required.

As i continue to ponder stats...

Every character seems to have a need for DEX, CON and WIS as these still seem to impact universal derived values, (ie Saves) and every class will have a primary stat to focus on outside of these, (STR, INT or CHA depending on class and role... although i feel like some may be able to double up and have DEX or WIS as their main stat in addition to a universal stat) So while we may see higher average stats for both PCs and NPCs (easy enough to explain as superior health care and education even for the poorest of society... on average at least.) At the highest highs we will still see differing peaks of STR, INT or CHA depening on class and role with moderately high values in DEX, CON and WIS but being close to equal, perhaps within a +1 modifier, across builds. Some dedicated shootist and mystics might focus on extremely high peaks of DEX or WIS though. So from seven classes i can see five distinct stat spreads as desireable from where we stand now. the fact that a low stat is still a +2 or +3 modifier doesnt change that the focus will be on those +5s and +6s

I fear that the majority of characters will go for DEX/CON/INT/WIS for their four stat bumps.
Only those actually needing STR or CHA will decide to trade one of those for their relevant stat.

I fear that the majority of characters will go for DEX/CON/INT/WIS for their four stat bumps.

Only those actually needing STR or CHA will decide to trade one of those for their relevant stat.

Ironically STR and CHA are my favorite stats.

Mashallah wrote:

I fear that the majority of characters will go for DEX/CON/INT/WIS for their four stat bumps.

Only those actually needing STR or CHA will decide to trade one of those for their relevant stat.

Ironically STR and CHA are my favorite stats.

Sadly, CHA is my thematically favourite stat, due to the force of personality flavour. Which is why it pains me greatly that the stat is traditionally really bad in 3.x, serving very little mechanical purpose and pretty much outright inferior to most stats.

Regarding dump stats, you don't get any more points but do you get anything else?

Regarding dump stats, you don't get any more points but do you get anything else?

The fun of playing an even glassy-er glass cannon?

I want to play a monk in SF. ;)

You might want to look into the Solarion when it comes out. He seemed somewhat monky from the twitch stream they did.

Thanks Brad but see my post above I was sort of joking.

Not that the Solarion wouldn't be a good idea for a monk. :)

On a serious note, I think Monk could make a good Archetype. As would Barbarian and Paladin.

On another note since I'm not understanding this all 100% could someone do a breakdown which puts emphasis on a few scores?

Let's say a human with no dump stats, strength as high as possible. Any "left" over points or points that can't be put into strength go into Con then (Int & char equally) I'm guessing we can avoid dex and wis altogether? If not wis then dex.

Please show what you're doing at each level. Not sure what starting stat array would be used or point build.

So how high can we get that Str? Any help here is appreciated thanks. :)

Assuming you get 18 base, +2 Human, and +1 Theme, you'll start with 21.

At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level you increase your STR by 1, to a total of 25.

With your +6 personal upgrade item being a STR item, it then goes up to 31.

This is hypothetically the highest you can get any stat to unless your race gets more than +2 to STR.

This is all assuming that you're allowed to have 18 in a stat at character creation.

On another note since I'm not understanding this all 100% could someone do a breakdown which puts emphasis on a few scores?

Let's say a human with no dump stats, strength as high as possible. Any "left" over points or points that can't be put into strength go into Con then (Int & char equally) I'm guessing we can avoid dex and wis altogether? If not wis then dex.

Please show what you're doing at each level. Not sure what starting stat array would be used or point build.

So how high can we get that Str? Any help here is appreciated thanks. :)

We don't yet know how exactly starting ability scores work.

Assuming you get 18 base, +2 Human, and +1 Theme, you'll start with 21.

At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level you increase your STR by 1, to a total of 25.

With your +6 personal upgrade item being a STR item, it then goes up to 31.

This is hypothetically the highest you can get any stat to unless your race gets more than +2 to STR.

This is all assuming that you're allowed to have 18 in a stat at character creation.

My understanding is that racial bonuses don't apply to your raw attribute; rather they give you more points to spend on that stat. I don't think we'll see starting stats above an 18 (or 19, if Theme is applied after-the-fact).

Thanks all. :)

IonutRO wrote:

Assuming you get 18 base, +2 Human, and +1 Theme, you'll start with 21.

At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level you increase your STR by 1, to a total of 25.

With your +6 personal upgrade item being a STR item, it then goes up to 31.

This is hypothetically the highest you can get any stat to unless your race gets more than +2 to STR.

This is all assuming that you're allowed to have 18 in a stat at character creation.

My understanding is that racial bonuses don't apply to your raw attribute; rather they give you more points to spend on that stat. I don't think we'll see starting stats above an 18 (or 19, if Theme is applied after-the-fact).

While this was the case months ago, Owen said that the point buy system was completely reworked at the last moment before the game was sent to printing. So we don't know if it works like that anymore.

caps wrote:

IonutRO wrote:

Assuming you get 18 base, +2 Human, and +1 Theme, you'll start with 21.

At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level you increase your STR by 1, to a total of 25.

With your +6 personal upgrade item being a STR item, it then goes up to 31.

This is hypothetically the highest you can get any stat to unless your race gets more than +2 to STR.

This is all assuming that you're allowed to have 18 in a stat at character creation.

My understanding is that racial bonuses don't apply to your raw attribute; rather they give you more points to spend on that stat. I don't think we'll see starting stats above an 18 (or 19, if Theme is applied after-the-fact).

While this was the case months ago, Owen said that the point buy system was completely reworked at the last moment before the game was sent to printing. So we don't know if it works like that anymore.

So all this speculation is even more useless than we already said.! :-)

The thing I find interesting is that everyone is assuming the racial mods for stats are '+'s like in Pathfinder but from what I saw in the Free RPG day handout First Contact that does not lookto be the case.

The stat adjustment mechanic looks to me like buy points for each stat listed in the race. Not an actual flat '+' to the statistic.

For example on the Space Goblin it lists:

"ABILITY BUY POINTS: +4 Dex, -1 Charisma"

So maybe if you spend points on an attribute you get those as extra points and the final points spent determines your attribute. Rather than how it is now where your buying to say 16 and then adding +2 to that final number.

I am curious how this is going to work out and if it means it is easier to get a stat from lower to mid range but harder to get it 18+, for example.

The thing I find interesting is that everyone is assuming the racial mods for stats are '+'s like in Pathfinder but from what I saw in the Free RPG day handout First Contact that does not lookto be the case.

The stat adjustment mechanic looks to me like buy points for each stat listed in the race. Not an actual flat '+' to the statistic.

For example on the Space Goblin it lists:

"ABILITY BUY POINTS: +4 Dex, -1 Charisma"

So maybe if you spend points on an attribute you get those as extra points and the final points spent determines your attribute. Rather than how it is now where your buying to say 16 and then adding +2 to that final number.

I am curious how this is going to work out and if it means it is easier to get a stat from lower to mid range but harder to get it 18+, for example.

This is irrelevant and I'll tell you why; at PaizoCon in what I believe was the last Starfinder panel of the con, I asked about how creating and leveling Starfinder characters was different from Pathfinder. Needless to say, the answer was quite long, but very interesting. One of key points made during that answer and what is most salient to my point here is that we were told that the ability score generation was literally the last thing they changed and not even the playtesters got to see that final version before it went to print. Because First Contact was sent to print at least a couple months before that happened we know that the ability score point generation in First Contact is not the one to make it to the final version. What's more, even in the First Contact book itself, there is a warning that those rules may not be the final version that sees print. Know Direction was recording it, I believe and when they finally get around to putting that panel up we can all hear that answer that I am referencing.

Also, we could see from the picture of the slide for the Shirren taken at the banquet (seen here) has +2 CON, +2 WIS, and -2 CHA. (If the picture still isn't clear, I saw that in person and I know that is what I read) That seems to be a strong case to me for stating that the Starfinder's core races have a similar ability score breakdown as those of Pathfinder's.

The thing I find interesting is that everyone is assuming the racial mods for stats are '+'s like in Pathfinder but from what I saw in the Free RPG day handout First Contact that does not lookto be the case.

The stat adjustment mechanic looks to me like buy points for each stat listed in the race. Not an actual flat '+' to the statistic.

For example on the Space Goblin it lists:

"ABILITY BUY POINTS: +4 Dex, -1 Charisma"

So maybe if you spend points on an attribute you get those as extra points and the final points spent determines your attribute. Rather than how it is now where your buying to say 16 and then adding +2 to that final number.

I am curious how this is going to work out and if it means it is easier to get a stat from lower to mid range but harder to get it 18+, for example.

First Contact says that the rules in it are playtest material and not final, and we've been told that the point buy system was completely reworked at the last moment, so however it may work in the final product, First Contact is not to be taken to mean anything.

EDIT:

Someone on Reddit who attended a demo of Starfinder in Minnesota said this two days before this blog was posted:

Completely redone ability scores as in a straight one to one Point buy. Not allowed to go above 18. Had every five levels you get you get four points to put in any ability score but they are worth double if your ability score is less than 16.

Because they are 100% correct about ability score increases, I'm going to take their word when it comes to point buy.

This is all very helpful for my first house rules. Luck and Aesthetic ability scores.

Here you go folks, eye witness account of how point buy works.

It's surprisingly simple and straight forward. You get 10's across the board, and then add racial modifiers. These seem to be a net +3. I've seen +4/-1, +2/+2/-1, and +4/+1/-1/-1.

After that, you have 10 points to spend. Placing a point in a score increases it by 1, regardless of the score. 16->17 costs 1 point, as does 9->10. You can't have a score higher than 18. Additionally, you don't get points back for going below 10 - no dump stats in Starfinder.

At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th, You increase 4 ability scores. A score above 16 is increased by 1, a score at or below 16 is increased by 2.

So for example, say we have a Goblin Operative, because why not.

Goblins get +4 Dex, -1 Cha, so we start with

10 14 10 10 10 9

Then we spend our 10 points. 4 go to Dex, hitting the max of 18. 2 for Con for some HP, then 4 more into Int for skill ranks. Now we have

10 18 12 14 10 9

At 5th level, we get our increases. Let's do Dex, Int, Con, and Wis, 'cause why not. Now we have

10 19 14 16 12 9

and so on.

Overall I think it's pretty elegant. It allows for specialization in 1 ability (spellcasters) without having to dump everything, and the level increases balance that out by making MAD classes much more able to function. Also it's so much easier to explain that the Pathfinder system, for which I've resorted to the phrase "I'll send you a link to a point buy calculator."