I'm curious. A long time ago I had a player license and played some 4th edition D&D games on Fantasy Grounds. I really liked it as a tool.
Does that player license count for this at all? Or was it specific to 4th edition? I found my old purchase email and it says it was a Fantasy Grounds II Lite License.
The Lite license (Player license) is still supported but is no longer sold. You can reinstall with that key and still act just like a player license did in the past. Use the latest installer from our website under Downloads > All Licenses and enter your key into your Settings. It is also eligible for a reduced cost upgrade to Standard if you ever decide to go up to the Standard edition.
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I'm curious. A long time ago I had a player license and played some 4th edition D&D games on Fantasy Grounds. I really liked it as a tool.
Does that player license count for this at all? Or was it specific to 4th edition? I found my old purchase email and it says it was a Fantasy Grounds II Lite License.
The Lite license (Player license) is still supported but is no longer sold. You can reinstall with that key and still act just like a player license did in the past. Use the latest installer from our website under Downloads > All Licenses and enter your key into your Settings. It is also eligible for a reduced cost upgrade to Standard if you ever decide to go up to the Standard edition.
Thanks!
I just watched the Rise of the Runelords AP of Fantasy Grounds Video.
I already purchased this from Paizo so I wont be paying full price for the Fantasy Grounds version but even if I were, it's worth it simply for the amount of work that's already done for you. HOLY CRAP.
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What a Rip Off!
So you need to pay for the FG Licence, than HIGHLY priced "digital versions" of the products. What does this offer? Tokens? Linkable stats?
I am seriously not understanding what this offers beyond my current setup (Roll20, Paizo PDFS (that i have already bought, at a FAIR price), and Photoshop (or Gimp) to extract the images and make tokens etc) .
Not to mention Roll20 is way more accessible (Web based, Free). Sure Fantasy Grounds looks prettier, and you might? (depending on your setup / how you play) free up some prep time , but that's about it.
No thank you.
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Look, just because the things FG offers are not worth it to you does not make it a "rip off". They're worth it to some of us. For my own part, paying $18 extra on top of the RotRL PDF is *cheap* to have all the encounters pre-placed, all the handouts pre-prepared and so on.
So tone it down. It's not for you, and that's enough. You don't need to go disparaging the product on top of that.
To those of you who actually want to be informed about the products in question:
Pathfinder Core Rulebook Add-on For Fantasy Grounds
Official Pathfinder Rise of the Runelords AP for FG
Pathfinder Advanced Players Guide for Fantasy Grounds
Fantasy Grounds Pathfinder Bestiary Preview
If you're going to have a passionate opinion about something maybe it helps to have an informed opinion as well? I dont know. Maybe that's just me....
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I just watched the Rise of the Runelords AP of Fantasy Grounds Video.
I already purchased this from Paizo so I wont be paying full price for the Fantasy Grounds version but even if I were, it's worth it simply for the amount of work that's already done for you. HOLY CRAP.
Yep, $18 for that amount of work - I almost feel like I am taking advantage of the team. The map conversions and grid placements alone are worth that price. I can't wait to see some of the more complicated maps from APs done, like the prison in Haunting of Harrowstone - just applying the grid to that one took me an hour, and it looked like crap when I was done from all the upscaling.
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For those complaining, It's an option and if you own the PDF already you only play for the FG add on. On roll20, that popular 'free' option, there's a number of games that use illegal copies. Roll20 has its strengths and it sounds like the licensing deal is in their court.
There's community made libraries of almost all of the items and bestiaries for the books not released, but if you get the official ones you get hi-res artwork and a interconnected reference manual.
Is it for everyone? I think a bunch of prior posters have already made their point. It's really a 'how much is your time worth' question. Much of the Pathfinder ruleset is OGL yet I still own the physical CRB as well as the PDF. Some GMs will find it worth while to use the drag/drop links from the CRB as well as class drags compared to manual creation.
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Doug has now got the account link set up for purchasing on the Fantasy Grounds Website.
For those interested the prices with discounts for already owning the pdfs are:
1 x Pathfinder RPG - Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition ($18.01)
1 x Pathfinder RPG - Core Rules Pack ($39.99)
1 x Pathfinder RPG - Bestiary 1 Pack ($29.99)
1 x Pathfinder RPG - Advanced Player's Guide ($34.99)
1 x Pathfinder RPG - Kingmaker AP 1: Stolen Land ($6)
1 x Pathfinder RPG - Kingmaker AP 2: Rivers Run Red ($6)
1 x Pathfinder RPG - Kingmaker AP 3: The Varnhold Vanishing ($6)
So, RotRL, CRB, Bestiary 1, and APG cost a total of $122.98, assuming that you already have all the PDF's.
On top of that, the ultimate edition costs $149.That's a total of $271.98 on top of the prices of all PDF's and in addition to them, just as a minimum buy-in to be able to play.
And now let's remember that the game's content doesn't end at CRB+APG, and that you'll need to program any other published content manually, which isn't any simpler than in roll20 or whatever else.
Especially since, in my personal experience with Pathfinder, most character options players took tended to be outside CRB/APG.
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So, RotRL, CRB, Bestiary 1, and APG cost a total of $122.98, assuming that you already have all the PDF's.
On top of that, the ultimate edition costs $149.
That's a total of $271.98 on top of the prices of all PDF's and in addition to them, just as a minimum buy-in to be able to play.
That is absolutely *not* a minimum buy-in to be able to play. It's the *maximum*, the "I want ALL the options and ALL the pretty visual extras" package.
As noted earlier, CRB and Bestiary content are already in the free core rules package, so you don't need to buy them. They are just extra fluff and glitz if you want to throw money around. APG is optional. So what your *actual* "minimum buy-in" is, is an adventure. You can get one for $6.
On top of that, Ultimate is the best model for most groups that consist of at least three people (DM + 2 players). However, what you fail to notice is that again, Ultimate doesn't have a $149 minimum buy-in but $10/month. For a typical group of DM + 4 player, that's $2 per person per month for all-you-can-eat playtime.
So really, minimum buy-in is $6 for Kingmaker Vol 1 and $10 for Ultimate one month. You can absolutely get started with that.
If you *choose* to buy more, it's there for you, but you don't have to. You judge each package separately. "Does this provide me with enough value for its price?" If it doesn't, don't buy it.
And also remember, there's always the option of doing all the work for yourself. If you think the workload Smite has done is so little, go do it yourself. (Hint: it's not so little, and they deserve to get compensated for it.)
This looks like quality software unlike other paid VTTs, but the site does a pretty terrible job explaining all the different licenses.
The Ultimate license is completely mandatory because otherwise you have to force your players to pony up 49 bucks just to play your game. It just doesn't seem worth it at all unless you REALLY want your online Pathfinder games to play like an awkward video game.
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And, again, you can get the Ultimate license for 1 month for $9.99 and your players play for free under that. This is the same price for Roll20's premium(Pro) service, but you also have the option to choose the lifetime ultimate license for $149. (No lifetime option with Roll20.)
Once you've played a few games in Fantasy Grounds, you may find why so many think it's worth it big time.
Or, maybe you won't like it. At least the decision would be informed, and these options are available.
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Yay, now that its finally released on FG I can again start waiting for Roll20 release.
Like, I just dislike several things about FG: If you actually want to play with your players, you NEED to get ultimate license or all players need to get the basic license, I dislike the UI since I find it somewhat confusing(it gets easier after trying it out, but I still find it rather confusing) so roll20 is better for me since it doesn't require players to pay anything and I find it simpler to use. Also that its used through browser and not separate client thingy which confuses me since I don't get IP addresses or where goes the line between security limits :P I'm not computer savvy
Also note that the monthly subscription does NOT built any equity to purchasing a lifetime license.
Just to make sure.
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It never does. Not on Roll20, not on Marvel Unlimited, not on Netflix. Most of them don't even have a pay-once option, let alone let a monthly sub build equity towards one.
Offering a lifetime license is an extra option that FG is offering that is above and beyond subscription model standards. If you grab it you can potentially save a lot of money compared to other companies who will just keep milking you until infinity.
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And it works very well as a "try before you buy" option. I did the subscription for a month, maybe 2 before I deciding to purchase Ult.
I also use Roll20 for pbp mapping. I've temporarily signed up for the Pro to work out a Char sheet for a game I've been working on, with plans to use it for playtests until I can properly mod FG.
And I use D20Pro, which charges you extra for having more than 4 players at once. Some features are nice, and I have a player that prefers the interface, but if I'd tried FG first, I probably wouldn't have gone with D20Pro.
Oh yes, I'm just making sure that people were aware it didn't, there was quite a bit of confusion when the subscriptions first launched
Can you buy the Fantasy Grounds versions of these products in the Paizo store? If so, where? I can't seem to find them!
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So basically for all the complaining and griping about this product, it comes down to perceived value.
At $149 for the Unlimited license (because I dont want my players to shoulder the burden/cost for this) if I were making $10 an hour (I am not) this would pay for itself in 3 5-hour sessions or so or 5 3 hour sessions.
At 5 3 hour sessions, lets say I play twice a month that's paying for itself in 3 months of play?
I've been a subscriber to the RPG line and the AP line (until recently) since the beginning so I have all of the PDF's for all of the AP's until Hell's Rebels (I canceled my subscription after that) and all of the PDF's for all of the RPG line.
If I were buying everything in this starting set without the discount it would cost me roughly $255. Since I DO have all of he PDF's already it'll only cost me $141. All of which will pay for itself in less than 3 months of play.
The time saving ALONE is enough to make this deal more than worth it.
I understand the people who just cant afford it. I get that. But for those of us who want a virtual table top that has everything we need to run an AP? This is pretty much the best deal there is (for people like me who have been subscribers).
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I am always skeptical of paid virtual tabletops because the companies producing them tend to do a terrible job of selling their unique features.
They strut around like they're the only rooster on the farm, emphasizing features that any VTT will have while not elaborating what a consumer gains from the product/service that one cannot with MapTool or Roll20. Almost all of those times, the answer is "not much." The worst part is that there's never a guarantee these services/products will stick around for more than a year. Many competing companies go under because they didn't have enough business sense to market what their product can do better than decade-old freeware cobbled together in Java.
The AP expansions are the only value I see in Fantasy Grounds. I'd totally be willing to pay a subscription for a quality VTT that regularly updated with all the core rules while offering APs and modules as DLC. But considering that you have to buy all the core books separately at five-times the cost of a PDF, it feels like you're paying a lot of money for an incomplete product.
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You don't have to buy any of the core books to play on Fantasy Grounds. Pathfinder is OGL and there are lots of built in content and community content available, along with the ability to enter your own data. The ruleset itself has been included from the beginning of of when Pathfinder was first available as a game. Initially it was an option for 3.5E campaigns and we eventually spun it off into its own ruleset. We have videos on each store page that show you what the official versions have and you can determine if that is something you would like to optionally buy to enhance the game or not.
Fantasy Grounds has been available since 2004 and has been growing every year since. In addition to enhancing your play experience, buying add-ons we sell tells us and the publishers that license the content to us that you support these efforts.
There are several VTTs out there and they all have strengths and weaknesses. We encourage open discussion about where we rate compared to competition on our forums. Our fans have supported us over the decades and allowed us to grow the number of people working on the product and producing content. Ultimately, support whichever one you like.
Others in this thread have already described a number of the unique features in FG, but the short summary is that it has very good automation, good character and campaign management features, a history of producing great licensed content, full-time employees that enhance the product and provide customer support, more publisher licenses than any other VTT and the 2nd largest user base. We offer a full refund for any purchase made within 30 days, including subscriptions. You can try it out and compare it with your favorite VTT and then get a full refund if it doesn't satisfy your needs.
With regards to refunds of Paizo products, please note that we may need to coordinate with Paizo on any products if you activated your free PDF. That portion may or may not be available for refund, so don't sync your account and get your free PDF if you are still on the fence.
Does Fantasy Grounds have tablet support (I.e. iPad and/or android) or is it just the windows 10 tablets where it will run? (Thinking of players on tablets rather than the GM role).
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Does Fantasy Grounds have tablet support (I.e. iPad and/or android) or is it just the windows 10 tablets where it will run? (Thinking of players on tablets rather than the GM role).
Not at the present time due to limitations in the present code. They are working on converting the entire app over to Unity, once that work is done it might be possible.
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Where is the support for Roll20 from Paizo? That's where the majority of the VTT gaming is at. If Paizo plans to blow off Roll20, then it will lose me as a customer and I will go play D&D 5e which is addressing the needs of its customer base by putting products in Roll20.'Bye.
You obviously don't run a business.
You obviously don't run a business.Where is the support for Roll20 from Paizo? That's where the majority of the VTT gaming is at. If Paizo plans to blow off Roll20, then it will lose me as a customer and I will go play D&D 5e which is addressing the needs of its customer base by putting products in Roll20.'Bye.
Neither do you.
It was mentioned that a roll20 licensing deal is possibly in the works. There has been no additional news on that front, as such deals take a very long time to work out (months to years), and are typically kept secret until the deal is actually solidified. If or when roll20 acquires a Pathfinder license, we'll hear about it. In the meantime, the best we can hope for is to be patient, as Paizo isn't going to talk about who is or is not working out licensing deals with them, and The Orr Group seems reluctant to talk about who they are working out deals with as well (for good reason).
Do not take radio silence as an indication that they are "blowing off" anything, or as an indication that something is going to for sure happen in the future. Just take it as it is -- silence, with any possibility being likely in the future.
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You obviously don't run a business.Where is the support for Roll20 from Paizo? That's where the majority of the VTT gaming is at. If Paizo plans to blow off Roll20, then it will lose me as a customer and I will go play D&D 5e which is addressing the needs of its customer base by putting products in Roll20.'Bye.Neither do you.
Actually, I did. If I told people bye when they voiced complaints I lost customers.
I do realize that things might be going on, but the aura of silence is somewhat ridiculous. We could be informed as to whether negotiations are taking place or not. Be Patient wears thin after a while. I do have money to spend and a fairly decent sized group of players on Roll20 I play with as well as gamemaster for. I may just spend it on 5e or third party materials.
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Just to put things into perspective, a few of the things that they have to do, at a minimum, to get Paizo to sign off, from what we know of the process Smiteworks went through:
1. Work out a copy protection system that will prove that the content on Roll20 cannot be in any reasonable way stolen or shared once it's published, and keep any content from being used by more than the licensed number of customers at once.
2. Prove that they can provide the content with high enough quality that Paizo does not feel like it lowers the image of their brand. Approvals will happen for each product before its allowed to be published.
3. Provide a way to securely tie into Paizo's partner API so purchases can be tracked back and forth, and ensure that both sides get paid when purchases get made.
There is also a lot of legal contract stuff to go through, and there will probably some pretty rough discussions about customers sharing stuff that falls outside the OGL...
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Just to put things into perspective, a few of the things that they have to do, at a minimum, to get Paizo to sign off, from what we know of the process Smiteworks went through:
1. Work out a copy protection system that will prove that the content on Roll20 cannot be in any reasonable way stolen or shared once it's published, and keep any content from being used by more than the licensed number of customers at once.
2. Prove that they can provide the content with high enough quality that Paizo does not feel like it lowers the image of their brand. Approvals will happen for each product before its allowed to be published.
3. Provide a way to securely tie into Paizo's partner API so purchases can be tracked back and forth, and ensure that both sides get paid when purchases get made.There is also a lot of legal contract stuff to go through, and there will probably some pretty rough discussions about customers sharing stuff that falls outside the OGL...
I have no doubt about that, Illrigger. It would be smart business sense to negotiate all of that on the part of both parties. However, that does not mean the parties cannot let us know they are in negotiations. VTT is a growing market. I think Paizo should be focusing on it better than they have been doing. Roll20 is the largest Pathfinder VTT by far. I don't think they are going to want to ignore that sector, but stranger things have happened in business.
Okay, people. Let's take a step back and a deep breath before the Mods step in.
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...Why Fantasy Grounds instead of Roll20? Fantasy Grounds is crazy expensive and not particularly popular- as much as I'd like to use this, it's waaaaaaaay out of my price range.I'm also curious where the data for Fantasy Grounds not being particularly popular came from, or if it is an assumption. Fantasy Grounds is plenty
I have used both roll 20 and Fantasy Grounds. The issue I have with roll 20 is the use of google+. We had many issues getting people set up and logged in to play. While the sound feature was nice and yes, I could do manual work get things set up; as a GM it's well worth the investment.
I was resistant to the price point myself at first, but after doing a demo with a friend we were sold. None of my group is wealthy, but it's the cost of buying a single video game to get started. People can buy their own books and share them for the session. You also don't have to buy the extra books. You can use the OGL books that come with the license.
I will say this one final thing, the time saved building out an adventure alone is well worth the investment. In my opinion.
This is great news to see. Thanks Paizo for starting to move in the direction to help support those of us whose gaming groups are dispersed or whose schedule requires using a virtual tabletop from time to time.
As someone whose group is fairly deep into utilizing Roll20, I have to echo some of the statements saying that I hope we see Roll20 support/products in the near term.
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I know that you guys just released this but I've got to know, is there an ETA for curse of the crimson throne??
I believe Doug said it was in the works and soon. It was mentioned on the FG boards. I don't think there was an ETA other than soon after launch, though.
CoCT is the one I'm anxiously waiting for.
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I know that you guys just released this but I've got to know, is there an ETA for curse of the crimson throne??
We have a little rework left on this one but I expect it will come along quickly. The review process has been pretty smooth, so you are probably looking at the first 2 adventures arriving in the next 3-4 weeks.
This is great. I am running an online Kingmaker game starting in June. I am adding a bunch of things to it that I will still have to prep, but it will be about 20% of the work I was going to have to do.
Yes, if you pick up everything the cost adds up, but holy how does it save you an amazing amount of time.
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We have a little rework left on this one but I expect it will come along quickly. The review process has been pretty smooth, so you are probably looking at the first 2 adventures arriving in the next 3-4 weeks.
You're going to be selling Crimson Throne as separate adventures? Does that mean they're going to be the 3.5 versions rather than the all-in-one 3.PF volume?
Hmm... Kingmaker.
Do tell, is the Kingdom-building subsystem integrated? That alone might be the buying argument...
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We have a little rework left on this one but I expect it will come along quickly. The review process has been pretty smooth, so you are probably looking at the first 2 adventures arriving in the next 3-4 weeks.You're going to be selling Crimson Throne as separate adventures? Does that mean they're going to be the 3.5 versions rather than the all-in-one 3.PF volume?
From what I read on the FG forums, it should be the anniversary edition.
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Hmm... Kingmaker.
Do tell, is the Kingdom-building subsystem integrated? That alone might be the buying argument...
The rules are presented in chapter 2, along with the city building grid, city sheet, and kingdom sheet. The Sheets are not automated, but are fillable once you make a copy (drag n drop in Notes Tab.) There are "tokens" for castles, granaries, and the like included for the city building grid, so just create copies for each town/city and drop your buildings down.
When I run it, I'll likely create some macros and place them in quick keys (since they're simple 1d20+X rolls) and just keep the Kingdom/City Sheets updated.
The Kingdom Events Table is set up, with links so you can roll, click the link and read what the event means.
So while the Kingdom Rules are not automated, they are very much included, accessible, and runnable within the game (as long as you have Chapter 2.)
(Edit: correction, it seems you cannot copy images like you can Notes, so you would need to load in your own versions of the City Grid if you wanted to use more than 1.) EDIT2: this one works fine: Link just save that to campaign images, zoom to the correct level, and drag your buildings there. Copy it as many times as you want.
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You're going to be selling Crimson Throne as separate adventures? Does that mean they're going to be the 3.5 versions rather than the all-in-one 3.PF volume?From what I read on the FG forums, it should be the anniversary edition.
It's a common misconception, but there is no "anniversary edition" of Curse, just a hardcover, but it's not an anniversary edition. I know what you mean though.