New Options

Monday, July 14, 2014

The Year of the Sky Key, Season 6 of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign, is approaching, and that means the new Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play is on its way. It's still a few weeks before we preview the new guide, but we can share a few new options available at the start of Season 6. In fact, there's something for players and something for GMs and organizers.

I imagine you've already spotted the art and guessed that expanded race access is one announcement—spot on. Just as non-standard race access is a hot topic on the messageboards, it's a common talking point during our meetings. It's tough to balance the lure of race boons for conventions against letting as many people as possible play the types of characters they want. Add to that the heated discussions about whether or not some non-standard races are overpowered and the concerns about the so-called "cantina effect." That's a lot to juggle when making a decision, but we decided that introducing a few new options would be best for the campaign. Beginning August 14th 2014 at Gen Con, three new races will be available for play without requiring a special Chronicle sheet: kitsune, nagaji, and wayang. These races have been in circulation through extra Chronicle sheets for nearly three years now, and even though some players have had an opportunity to create these characters, we want newer players to have new options to enjoy. Like other race options, it is still necessary that a player have a book or watermarked pdf reference for the race, such as from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Dragon Empires Gazetteer, Pathfinder Player Companion: Dragon Empires Primer, Pathfinder RPG: Advanced Race Guide, or Pathfinder RPG Bestiary: Bestiary 4.


Illustration by Eva Widermann

So let's see... seven core races plus three Bestiary races plus three Dragon Empires races. That equals 13, right? Well, there's one piece missing from that equation. We're also removing two races.

For several years, aasimar and tieflings have enjoyed a prominent role in the Pathfinder Society, but as the organization concludes its work in Mendev—where numerous pit-born fight for recognition and heaven-blooded warriors wage holy war—it's time for them to step back. Beginning on August 14th, creating an aasimar or tiefling character will require a special Chronicle sheet, as was the case years ago. The exception is any aasimar or tielfing character with at least 1 XP; these characters are grandfathered into the campaign.

Does this mean you can create several new characters, play a scenario with each, and have several native outsiders waiting for when you need them? Well, we debated long and hard whether to require 4 XP per character, as at that point one is past the free rebuilding stage. However, we also recognized this as unnecessarily punitive to casual players who may only be able to play once or twice in the next month. To answer your question, yes, you can make 10 aasimars and play The Confirmation an equal number of times, but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind.

Now that we've covered the more controversial news, let's wrap things up with something outright awesome.

We (both Mike and John) both have experience as venture-officers and event coordinators, and we understand that sometimes it's tough to convince a new player to commit to a full 4-5 hour experience. Some events just are not conducive to running a full game, whether that's because it's a weeknight with lots of folks who need to get to bed early or because the location is only open for a few hours. What do you do when a scenario just isn't short enough?

For years the answer has been quests, one-hour mini-adventures intended to last an hour or less. They're great little adventures, but they're a little difficult to schedule for a few reasons. First, there's no easy way to tell a bigger story by connecting a few quests together. Second, the quests—though replayable—offer no gold, XP, or Prestige Points, giving them a reputation of risk for little reward. The most difficult hurdle is that there are only two of them in print (not counting the Goblin Attack demos or Beginner's Box Bash demos).

This year at Gen Con, we're debuting six new 1st-level Pathfinder Quests that take place in and around the River Kingdoms. Each one is a standalone adventure, but they are all loosely tied into a common plot thread, allowing a GM to combine anywhere from two to all six to make a larger adventure as suits the needs of the group and event location. Play them in any order—one can even play the finale quest early—and earn a Chronicle sheet with rewards that scale based on the number of adventures you played.

John Compton and Mike Brock
Developer and Global Organized Play Coordinator

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Eva Widermann Pathfinder Society
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Grand Lodge 4/5

Drogon wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Look, I'll be honest. I might be horribly misreading things here, in which case I apologize, but a lot of your posts in this thread seem to you be wondering "Why doesn't everyone like what I like?"

Nope. Just genuinely curious. Sorry I'm coming off like that.

Edit: What I do for a living depends on knowing how people think about the games the play. Information like the answers you gave is important to me.

Also, after glancing back through my posts in this thread, I'm curious where I'm making statements like that. I'm certainly pointing out people who are complaining for (what I believe is) the sake of complaining. And I'm willing to stand my ground when people pick a fight with me. But I'm not accusing anyone of playing "incorrectly" that I can see.

Your "complaining for the sake of complaining" is my "reasonably annoyed by the reduction in play options for new players." Your most recent question posed to me was literally why don't I want my preferences to match those of others.

That, and you originally asserted that no one should be annoyed at all by this because it's "just a game".

rknop wrote:
I totally get what Drogon is saying here. I might state it more bluntly as "if you know that some combination breaks the game, and you even use the term 'breaks', why do you even do that?

I'm looking at the options that I know of that just flat out "break" the game, and I can't find a single one that is only doable with either Aasimar or Tiefling. There are some that are made easier, yes, but nothing exclusive to them.

And before people ask, I don't consider Early Entry to be broken in the slightest, and only at all overpowered in a very small number of cases.

(Also, personally, I leave the things that actually break the game for thought exercises and conversation pieces. To give an older example, I like talking about the d2 Crusader, but I'd never actually try playing as one.)

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Its not that aasimar are game breaking (they're not) its just that they're head shoulders, and halo above all the other choices for just about everything. You're telling people either play an aasimar or be less effective, and that has resulted in people playing these in droves almost to the exclusion of other options.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drogon wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Fromper wrote:
I think it's assumed that probably half or more of PCs are field commissions. I can't see many of the weirdo PC ideas at my tables (including many of my own) sitting still for 3 years of schooling.
I'd be surprised if the total number of PCs who identified themselves as anything other than being field commissioned exceeded the finger count of Thomas Covenant.

Erm...I have 11 who would...

Also, there's a thread out there with more.

Now if you subtract those who took the instruction option for the feat that it qualifies for and still have more than a dozen.... count me surprised.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jeff Merola wrote:
Your "complaining for the sake of complaining" is my "reasonably annoyed by the reduction in play options for new players."

You aren't actually one of the people I was pointing out as being unreasonable. Just so you know. You expressed disappointment, and that's your right. Specifically, you used the WORD "disappointed" rather than venting publicly. Others went much further.

Jeff Merola wrote:
Your most recent question posed to me was literally why don't I want my preferences to match those of others.

No, I honestly wanted to know why people wouldn't want to be on an even playing field with the game they were playing. You answered that question reasonably. Thank you.

Jeff Merola wrote:
That, and you originally asserted that no one should be annoyed at all by this because it's "just a game".

And I still think this is the case. It is a game. I think any of us who choose to play this game can find enjoyment in new ways when and if the rules change (whether it's OrgPlay rules or general rules). Being upset because the game has changed doesn't speak very well to those peoples' reasons for playing games.

Finally, nowhere in here have I stated my preferences for how I think PFS should be run (unless you count asking for more scenarios per month). And I won't, in this thread at least. I have simply stated I like the new direction, and I have questioned why people are picking on various aspects of that new direction.

I think Mike and John are doing a good job by changing things up. I wish people would ease off and let them see what happens when they make these kinds of changes rather than doing their best to make them feel like jerks for trying something new.

Grand Lodge 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Its not that aasimar are game breaking (they're not) its just that they're head shoulders, and halo above all the other choices for just about everything. You're telling people either play an aasimar or be less effective, and that has resulted in people playing these in droves almost to the exclusion of other options.

You know, you keep saying that, and I really don't buy it. Aasimars can't be small sized. They don't grant a bonus feat (I actually have more human characters than any other race because of the bonus feat). There are stat combinations that they can't do. The inability to be Enlarged is worse for some builds than the protection from a lot of Charm spells is beneficial.

Also, the post that spawned this little tangent specifically referred to them as overpowered, which is where my posts were coming in.

Drogon wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Your most recent question posed to me was literally why don't I want my preferences to match those of others.
No, I honestly wanted to know why people wouldn't want to be on an even playing field with the game they were playing. You answered that question reasonably. Thank you.

I actually asked a couple of friends about that question to see if I was just crazy. The response I got back was along the lines of 'you read it wrong, but it was written in a way that I can see how you came to that conclusion.' So, apologies again for reading something that wasn't there.

Drogon wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
That, and you originally asserted that no one should be annoyed at all by this because it's "just a game".
And I still think this is the case. It is a game. I think any of us who choose to play this game can find enjoyment in new ways when and if the rules change (whether it's OrgPlay rules or general rules). Being upset because the game has changed doesn't speak very well to those peoples' reasons for playing games.

While you are certainly entitled to feel that way, telling people that they shouldn't be annoyed (not necessarily upset, but not even annoyed) smacks a tiny bit of "your way of fun is wrong." Now, I know that's not what you were intending, but I also can tell that I wasn't the only one who read it like that (given the response you got at the time you made those statements).

Drogon wrote:

Finally, nowhere in here have I stated my preferences for how I think PFS should be run (unless you count asking for more scenarios per month). And I won't, in this thread at least. I have simply stated I like the new direction, and I have questioned why people are picking on various aspects of that new direction.

I think Mike and John are doing a good job by changing things up. I wish people would ease off and let them see what happens when they make these kinds of changes rather than making them feel like jerks for trying something new.

Was that comment aimed at me, or just at the thread in general, because I don't think I ever claimed that you said your preferences of how PFS should be run in here. (If I did, please point it out to me so I can try to be more clear int he future. I'm loving the open dialogue here, it's refreshing.)

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Nope. Again, you've been nothing but reasonable, even if you are disagreeing with someone. I'm not aiming at you. We are just both being defensive in our own little ways.

And TOZ is much like me, I've found: we both find most people to be reasonable, and try to understand their motivations. I just picked this topic to be "touchy" about while he didn't, so it looks like I'm attacking while he's defending (which is what it is, I suppose). And because he's like me, disagreeing with him is counterproductive. Much like you. I don't want to budge (and neither do you two), so I'm spending a lot of time saying the same thing over and over (as are you both). That's the definition of counterproductive, I'm pretty sure.

So, I'll stop and cede the field. But know that when you read the things I say, I'm honestly looking for answers and not trying to rile people up.

Edit: "Run" is synonymous with "played," in my corner of the game world.

3/5

rknop wrote:
stuff

In my experience is most people want a time to shine in the spot light of the game. For some people it is making some crazy build, I have seen some try to do some crazy tatics, and for some just to makes jokes as the game goes along.

I like making the most powerful characters I can think of because I want to play some extreme. I do not want to play a mediocre fighter agaisnt a mediocre challenge. I want the best fighter against the most dangerous challenge. That is my preffered style of play. Now not every PFS challenge offers that. So my characters all have quirks and reasons why they may not be part of the combat so others can play and show off their whatevers.

Now for the people playing with me. I want someone that wants to have fun and laugh at my jokes/antics I do. I do not care if your build is meant to be weak(I happily played with a bard with that could not do anythign helpful to the group, IE refused combat and no social skills).

Also I am against allowing powerful options into the game. I am all for removing overpowered features(if they allowed rebuilds). I agree with removing these races for new characters.

Maybe I am self centered, but I wish more people cared less what other people did with their builds and just wanted to have fun with the people that came to the table with them.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Jeff Merola wrote:
You know, you keep saying that, and I really don't buy it. Aasimars can't be small sized.

Yes, gnomes and halflings are still the go to choice for cavaliers.

Quote:
They don't grant a bonus feat (I actually have more human characters than any other race because of the bonus feat).

Darkvision alone wins out in a bonus feat, given the number of times you wander into darkness causing/can see in darkness monsters.

Quote:
There are stat combinations that they can't do.

Very few, and they'll always beat a human on that front.

Quote:
The inability to be Enlarged is worse for some builds than the protection from a lot of Charm spells is beneficial.

The scion of humanity alternate racial trait can take care of that if you want.

Quote:
Also, the post that spawned this little tangent specifically referred to them as overpowered, which is where my posts were coming in.

Differing between the two concepts of overpowered would probably clear up a lot of confusion.

Are they overpowered if your definition of overpowered is game breaking? No. Are they overpowered if the definition of overpowered is "clearly the best option" then yes. They're a 15 point buy race and the blood lines put them up to nearly 20 by making a +2 +2 whereever you want race.

le

Silver Crusade 5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

You know what I really like about this decision that hasn't been mentioned?

How many years has it been since the Lantern Lodge was founded in Tien Xia? Three years, give or take.

How long does it normally take Pathfinders to graduate from training to field work? Three years, give or take.

We had the group of field commissioned Kitsunes, Nagaji, and Wayangs (Triple-Race Boon) and now we're getting a wave of recruits fresh out of training from the Lantern Lodge in Tien Xia.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Seth Gipson wrote:
I have a demon-spawn Ninja/Paladin. He's lots of fun to play, and the guy you actually WANT at the front of the party. Quiet, tough, good perception, and can actually disable the traps he comes across.

Unless there is something I am missing, your Ninja/Paladin still cannot disable magical traps, other than by faceplanting...

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Its not that aasimar are game breaking (they're not) its just that they're head shoulders, and halo above all the other choices for just about everything. You're telling people either play an aasimar or be less effective, and that has resulted in people playing these in droves almost to the exclusion of other options.

I must be really odd, then.

I have 25 PCs with at least one XP right now.
The majority of them are Human.
One is an Aasimar, built deliberately to be a semi-breaker, as a support PC, an Oracle of Life. And he needs to ge a Persistent Rod, at some point, to use with his "offensive" spells, like ghostbane dirge. I have used that spell twioce, once from a scroll with a different PC, and once cast by this PC, and, both times!, the target saved. <grumble>
Four consist of the four elemental races (Oread, Ifrit, Undine and Sylph) from GM boons.
One is a Kitsune, from the triple race boon.
One is a Dhampir from a GM boon for BBB.
I think that means that the other 18 PCs I have are Human.

Also, using one of the alternative racial setups for Humans allows you, at the expense of the feat and skill points, to get +2 to two stats of your choice.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

I can only speak for my area, but very few of our locals have more than 2-3 planetouched PCs.

I'm also glad that there are people with more PCs than I :P

(5 humans, 3 half-orcs, 2 oreads, 2 aasimar, 2 tieflings, 1 kitsune, 1 gnome, 1 halfling, 1 tengu, 1 vishkanya + one dead halfling and one dead tengu)

Grand Lodge 4/5

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Darkvision alone wins out in a bonus feat, given the number of times you wander into darkness causing/can see in darkness monsters.

I'll accept this as soon as you can get a bonus feat for 300 gp.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Differing between the two concepts of overpowered would probably clear up a lot of confusion.

Are they overpowered if your definition of overpowered is game breaking? No. Are they overpowered if the definition of overpowered is "clearly the best option" then yes. They're a 15 point buy race and the blood lines put them up to nearly 20 by making a +2 +2 whereever you want race.

Yeah, see, I don't even agree with you on them being "clearly the best option" in most cases. I mean, if I did, I'd have more than zero Aasimars and two Tieflings (only one of which was picked for mechanical superiority).

And yes, they're a 15 point race constructed with a rather poor point buy system that vastly over-values some things and under-values others. A full third of their points comes from skill bonuses and some minor resistances that pretty much cease to be relevant after the first couple of levels.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
trik wrote:
graywulfe wrote:
Mark Stratton wrote:
So, if it's 18 choices that we are losing because we count archetypes, then won't the new races have them too, or no?
I don't agree with the count but I believe they are referring to the Alternate Heritages in Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends, not archetypes.

The actual count is less important than the concept that more is being taken away than gained. The whole presentation appears to be designed to take the emphasis off that and is rather disingenuous (again, in my opinion). However, in the end, it's doesn't really matter. It's just a game and I'll play it as long as I enjoy it. If I ever stop enjoying it, I stop playing it.

Realistically, Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends should never have been allowed in PFS in the first place. I've played PFS (and Pathfinder itself) for just over 6 months at this point. I knew Aasimar would be the overpowered race as soon as I saw it. I'm surprised that people who have played D&D and Pathfinder for years didn't immediately see it as well.

To be clear, I see the count as 2. So the actual count matters, because to me we lost two options and gained three.

I don't think that Aasimar are overpowered, I tried to make one and found that nothing worked the way I wanted, so I made the character a different Race, I did this several times while Aasimar were legal for play. I have no Aasimar PCs and I suspect that I will continue to have none.

Do Aasimar have a slight advantage? Yeah probably, but so what it just doesn't add up to that much.

I accept without complaint the PFS staff's choice to remove these options and add others in their place.

That said I've never seen the issue with the so called "cantina effect".

5/5 5/55/55/5

kinevon wrote:


I must be really odd, then.

That is a pretty odd amount of access to boon races. If you don't have access to those (as a lot of players don't) the aasimar pull away even further.

Quote:
Also, using one of the alternative racial setups for Humans allows you, at the expense of the feat and skill points, to get +2 to two stats of your choice.

Whereas picking the right aasimar or tiefling subrace allows you to do the same thing, and get dark vision, and energy resistances, and a spell like ability, and skill bonuses to some very nice skills, and immunity to a lot of the nastier spells.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Jeff Merola wrote:
I'll accept this as soon as you can get a bonus feat for 300 gp.

I'll assume you're refering to a potion of darkvision? Its VERY easy to get a feat equivalent for an hour out of 300gp. The problem is if you want to have darkvision throughout your entire playing career its a MUCH higher bar bill.

Quote:
Yeah, see, I don't even agree with you on them being "clearly the best option" in most cases. I mean, if I did, I'd have more than zero Aasimars and two Tieflings (only one of which was picked for mechanical superiority).

Or you don't like them. I know thats the most common response when I ask someone why aren't you an aasimar/tiefling?

They are such a popular choice that they've taken over the lower levels. I don't think thats because of the role playing.

Quote:
And yes, they're a 15 point race constructed with a rather poor point buy system that vastly over-values some things and under-values others. A full third of their points comes from skill bonuses and some minor resistances that pretty much cease to be relevant after the first couple of levels.

5 hit points is 5 hit points. Thats a feat equivalent for most of your pathfindering career in all probability.

Scarab Sages

Last game I played in, there were two Tieflings, an Aasimar, a Dwarf (Me), and a Human (my gf). I was a little upset by the decision to retire the planetouched races as I haven't made one yet, but I don't think I'm going to try to get grandfathered in at this point. They are very common in my area, and while they are more powerful, they are much better than anything else, so I like to make due with something less overtly optimized.

I also know my GF is looking forward to making an Kitsune Investigator.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.
UndeadMitch wrote:

You know what I really like about this decision that hasn't been mentioned?

How many years has it been since the Lantern Lodge was founded in Tien Xia? Three years, give or take.

How long does it normally take Pathfinders to graduate from training to field work? Three years, give or take.

We had the group of field commissioned Kitsunes, Nagaji, and Wayangs (Triple-Race Boon) and now we're getting a wave of recruits fresh out of training from the Lantern Lodge in Tien Xia.

That's a really cool thought! I hope other folks will RP it as such, or come up with something similar.

I like the idea of a couple of boats arriving in Absalom come August, packed full of new Pathfinders ;)

Grand Lodge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
UndeadMitch wrote:

You know what I really like about this decision that hasn't been mentioned?

How many years has it been since the Lantern Lodge was founded in Tien Xia? Three years, give or take.

How long does it normally take Pathfinders to graduate from training to field work? Three years, give or take.

We had the group of field commissioned Kitsunes, Nagaji, and Wayangs (Triple-Race Boon) and now we're getting a wave of recruits fresh out of training from the Lantern Lodge in Tien Xia.

I wonder if that was intentional?

>.>

Grand Lodge 5/5

kinevon wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:
I have a demon-spawn Ninja/Paladin. He's lots of fun to play, and the guy you actually WANT at the front of the party. Quiet, tough, good perception, and can actually disable the traps he comes across.
Unless there is something I am missing, your Ninja/Paladin still cannot disable magical traps, other than by faceplanting...

True enough. That's where the HP comes in. ;)

Actually, Im particularly fond of the character concept, cause he's a guy who definitely knows how to unlock that door for you so you can sneak in and steal what needs stolen, but wont do it, cause that would be morally and legally wrong. :P

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I WORKED SO HARD TO TRADE FOR MY KITSUNE BOON AND NOW IT'S TRASH!?!?!?

ARGH!

Apologies for being emotional about this but I am furious.

Dark Archive

Personally, I'm not a fan of the new races so much, especially the Kitsune. I'm not really looking forward to the "cantina effect" of having fox people around. They will be far more common than the others I suspect. Just a personal preference. More power to you if you like them.

That said, I'm with BNW on the Aasimar. Having a race with no drawbacks, and a bonus worth 4000 gold (a second +2 stat bump with no drawback) they far outshine other races in classes that are not feat dependent at lower levels. I've been trying for weeks to make an effective monk without making them an Aasimar, and it's very difficult with the limited point buy due to the number of stats a monk needs,(other monk problems aside.)

Grand Lodge 4/5

The Morphling wrote:
Apologies for being emotional about this but I am furious.

I had much the same problem with my aasimar boon. Luckily, I was given the boon and didn't actually lose anything.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Gnasher wrote:
That said, I'm with BNW on the Aasimar. Having a race with no drawbacks, and a bonus worth 4000 gold (a second +2 stat bump with no drawback) they far outshine other races in classes that are not feat dependent at lower levels. I've been trying for weeks to make an effective monk without making them an Aasimar, and it's very difficult with the limited point buy due to the number of stats a monk needs,(other monk problems aside.)

I wasn't aware that there was an aasimar heritage with +2 STR/WIS. You can get that with a dual-talented human. Just sayin'.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Gnasher wrote:


That said, I'm with BNW on the Aasimar. Having a race with no drawbacks, and a bonus worth 4000 gold (a second +2 stat bump with no drawback) they far outshine other races in classes that are not feat dependent at lower levels. I've been trying for weeks to make an effective monk without making them an Aasimar, and it's very difficult with the limited point buy due to the number of stats a monk needs,(other monk problems aside.)

I made my latest character a dual talented human to get the +2 STR, +2 CON I was after.

5/5

The Morphling wrote:
I am furious.

focus?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Mr Baird! How goes it? Are you looking forward to our pre-Gencon game as much as I am?

Grand Lodge 5/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
I am furious.
focus?

Rage?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
I am furious.
focus?

No, in this instance I think my fury is giving me an accuracy penalty, not negating one.

I am seriously upset over this, I pined over the Kitsune for forever and a half and searched desperately for someone who would trade me one.

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Have you actually filled out the boon yet? If not, you can save it for when they are no longer open again.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I really hope that if we're given a "consolation boon" it's not as useless and boring and flavorless as Xenophobia. I want a boon which lets another race gain some trait of said races. Something Tien-flavored. A third-trait boon which unlocks a Kitsune racial trait, or something.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Have you actually signed the boon yet? If not, you can save it for when they are no longer open again.

It's in my binder at home, but I don't think I have. I doubt I'll care then, though. I can just... grandfather in a new Kitsune by then. Or she'll be retired and level 12. That's probably a long way away.

5/5

The Morphling wrote:
I really hope that if we're given a "consolation boon" it's not as useless and boring and flavorless as Xenophobia. I want a boon which lets another race gain some trait of said races. Something Tien-flavored. A third-trait boon which unlocks a Kitsune racial trait, or something.

Hmm. The idea of additional race-boon powered boons holds some merit.

How about a boon that gives certain skill bonuses vs. races attached?

Or one that opens up racial traits of boons attached?

Grand Lodge 4/5

The Morphling wrote:
It's in my binder at home, but I don't think I have. I doubt I'll care then, though. I can just... grandfather in a new Kitsune by then. Or she'll be retired and level 12. That's probably a long way away.

Well, someone else who wasn't part of the campaign in time to get one might trade you for it.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Kyle Baird wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
I really hope that if we're given a "consolation boon" it's not as useless and boring and flavorless as Xenophobia. I want a boon which lets another race gain some trait of said races. Something Tien-flavored. A third-trait boon which unlocks a Kitsune racial trait, or something.

Hmm. The idea of additional race-boon powered boons holds some merit.

How about a boon that gives certain skill bonuses vs. races attached?

Or one that opens up racial traits of boons attached?

But how many Aasimar and Tiefling NPCs are there in scenarios? I like your second suggestion better, to offer something related to the PC build. How about access to that race's favored class bonuses?

Of course, if cycling is the norm now, you could hang on to it for a few years until the Tien races are taken away again.


I actually have a spare kitsune boon that I was holding onto... but I guess I will just continue saving it as a 'just in case'.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:


Yes, gnomes and halflings are still the go to choice for cavaliers.

For those who are THAT obsessed with constantly being on a mount no matter how tight the dungeon is, yes.

However in most PFS tables that I've run, the vast majority were Human. And many of them have discovered that to the surprise of many I'm sure, that the cavalier is still a competent adventurer on foot, even if he doesn't have an archetype that dispenses with the mount.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Jiggy wrote:


I wasn't aware that there was an aasimar heritage with +2 STR/WIS. You can get that with a dual-talented human. Just sayin'.

Oni-Spawn tiefling will do that. For the low low price of -2 charisma, you get all the fiendish goodies. Did i mention it was a LOW price? I know you're a proponent of having a charsma score but thats a ridiculously good trade off.

Scarab Sages

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jiggy wrote:


I wasn't aware that there was an aasimar heritage with +2 STR/WIS. You can get that with a dual-talented human. Just sayin'.
Oni-Spawn tiefling will do that. For the low low price of -2 charisma, you get all the fiendish goodies. Did i mention it was a LOW price?

Qlippoth Spawn will give that too with a minus to Int instead of CHA. Yet they are the ugliest PC race by far.

Silver Crusade

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jiggy wrote:


I wasn't aware that there was an aasimar heritage with +2 STR/WIS. You can get that with a dual-talented human. Just sayin'.
Oni-Spawn tiefling will do that. For the low low price of -2 charisma, you get all the fiendish goodies. Did i mention it was a LOW price? I know you're a proponent of having a charsma score but thats a ridiculously good trade off.

I made this Monk (well, Barbarian/Monk) using an Oni-Spawn Tiefling. So far it's worked out quite well. (Baring open access to Tieflings, I would have went with either dual-talented Human or use my Oread race boon for it).

Favourite alternate race trait: Scaled Skin. Lose 2 out of 3 of your resistances for +1 AC. Great trade IMO. :)

Imbicatus wrote:
Qlippoth Spawn will give that too with a minus to Int instead of CHA. Yet they are the ugliest PC race by far.

Yeah. You would have figured they would be the ones with -2 CHA instead of Oni-Spawn ;)

Grand Lodge 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
I'll accept this as soon as you can get a bonus feat for 300 gp.
I'll assume you're refering to a potion of darkvision? Its VERY easy to get a feat equivalent for an hour out of 300gp. The problem is if you want to have darkvision throughout your entire playing career its a MUCH higher bar bill.

No, it's very easy to get a small number of feat equivalent things for an hour out of 300 gp. And if you really, really need Darkvision constantly (which you usually don't), you can get it for 8k. You can't satisfy feat prereqs that way (I mean, you could if you could actually get the feats you wanted via magic item permanently, but you can't).

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Or you don't like them. I know thats the most common response when I ask someone why aren't you an aasimar/tiefling?

They are such a popular choice that they've taken over the lower levels. I don't think thats because of the role playing.

No, I like them fine. I've played quite a few Aasimar in homegames over the years. I've even considered playing Aasimars for some of my current characters.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
5 hit points is 5 hit points. Thats a feat equivalent for most of your pathfindering career in all probability.

Sorry, I was off on the numbers. It's almost 1/3 for just the skills, it's just shy of 1/2 if you include the resistances, which I'll admit I value lowly because of how quickly energy damage scales up.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

Nisha the Merchant wrote:
I made this Monk (well, Barbarian/Monk) using an Oni-Spawn Tiefling.

My one and only Tiefling, a brawler, is Oni-spawn.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jiggy wrote:


I wasn't aware that there was an aasimar heritage with +2 STR/WIS. You can get that with a dual-talented human. Just sayin'.
Oni-Spawn tiefling will do that.

My post was in reply to a comment about aasimar, not tieflings.

My tiefling is an oni-spawn cleric. ;D

5/5 5/55/55/5

Jiggy wrote:


My tiefling is an oni-spawn cleric. ;D

The larger point seemed to be the viability of a dual stated human because you couldn't get certain combinations of stats. Aasimar and tieflings together make that a pretty small pool. (strength/dex for archers is the only one i can think of really)

Grand Lodge 5/5

Strength/Constitution for Barbarians and anyone else that wants it as well BigNorseWolf.

A lot of builds just need the bonus feat as well. I'm a bit of an optimizer and most my builds don't end up being Aasimar or Tieflings, though I do have a bunch. That being said all but one (I think) of the planetouched characters I. have went that route for the alternate racial favored class bonus. Aasimar Life Oracle advancing channeling every level, tiefling paladin adding his level to lay on of hands on himself and a tiefling alchemist getting half his level to bomb damage. Actually a large portion of my race choices are based around alternate racial favored class bonuses in general. Have a half-elf summoner for extra evolution point and an elf magus for extra magus arcana off the top of my head.

1/5

Walter Sheppard wrote:


Something something something 8 is average.

Well sir. I didn't realize that. :D I actually looked around and yeah, I guess if everyone is assuming the average guy is nebbishy rather than neither good nor bad at something, then I stand corrected.

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I see the issue I'm having with Aasimar... I'm a GM who's only run for players of 2nd level and slightly higher so far. But Aasimar, if you have the Blood of Angels pdf or book, are quite good at being whatever kind of character they'd want to be without the need for a hugely detrimental 'dump stat'.

But, I got to run Storming the Diamond Gate - And now -- I realize that some modules are just DEADLY. :D

Dan

5/5 5/55/55/5

Nisha,

There's a feat to give you +2 for extra stony skin. (whereas 1 feat will give you back one of your energy resistances)

Shadow Lodge

Michael Brock wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
I don't mind seeing Aasimars and Tieflings go, but would it be so bad to get the elemental-blooded races into PFS standard play?
These were our GM boons this year and will remain our GM boons through Gen Con 2015. We didn't want to open them so soon and snub GMs who just received an elemental boon over the past few months. If you GM for a local convention, chances are, you will be able to pick one up.

Mike, does that include Paizocon? I've been angling for an elemental-blooded boon for a few years now. I have so many ideas. So many, many ideas...

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jiggy wrote:


My tiefling is an oni-spawn cleric. ;D

The larger point seemed to be the viability of a dual stated human because you couldn't get certain combinations of stats. Aasimar and tieflings together make that a pretty small pool. (strength/dex for archers is the only one i can think of really)

Actually, I think all of the physical/physical pairings are unique to dual-talented humans. So STR/DEX (good for TWF or archery, though archery probably wants the bonus feat), STR/CON (good for lots of builds, especially barbarians), and DEX/CON (good for Finessers).

Also, I think the DTH is the only one that can get STR/INT, great for magi or EKs.

Finally, I *think* there were some stat sets that aasimar don't get and tieflings have a painful penalty with, but I could be wrong.

In any case, that's at least 4 solid stat combos that only the human can get.

Scarab Sages 2/5 **

Kyle Baird wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
I really hope that if we're given a "consolation boon" it's not as useless and boring and flavorless as Xenophobia. I want a boon which lets another race gain some trait of said races. Something Tien-flavored. A third-trait boon which unlocks a Kitsune racial trait, or something.

Hmm. The idea of additional race-boon powered boons holds some merit.

How about a boon that gives certain skill bonuses vs. races attached?

Or one that opens up racial traits of boons attached?

+1

I support this concept.

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