It is a shame we can't use them Mr. Morris.
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I see that the elohim are mentioned as a race. Am I correct in presuming that they may be inspired/connected to the Elohim race in the Chonicles of Thomas Covenant as opposed to a more religious approach?To the contrary. Though now Mr. Covenant is on my reading list. ;)
Again! Bestiaries are Educational!
Do yourself one of the biggest fiction-related favors you will ever do in your life and take it back off the list. :( Seriously.
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Worse enough that a 20th level party will get crushed, driven insane, ruined, and killed. Not necessarily in that order.Does Cthulhu eat 1d4 player characters per round?Kinda, yeah. You'll see.Uh oh...
In terms of general gameplay mechanics, how much worse is is he compared to the CR 20 Star-Spawn from Wake of the Watcher? If a non-mythic party tries to go up against him, do they end up like PCs from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu?
Meh. Sorry, but the source material just does not support Cthulhu being that strong. Being able to terrorize a boatload of low-level NPC classed characters does not necessarily equate to being able to do the same to a party of near-demigods like a high level Pathfinder party.
I believe you're thinking of the Pathfinder Society Open Call, which does place that stipulation on what can be included in a submission. When we're dealing with an author we've already vetted or who we trust with a full scenario (rather than a Quest), there are more options available to them to tell the stories they want to tell. Everything goes through approval and development, though, so it's not like every monster after this book's release is going to be from Bestiary 4.Wait, I'm surprised by the comments about these creatures showing up in PFS scenarios. I thought every creature encountered in a PFS scenario had to have a miniature from the pawns/battles line associated with it, and not every monster does yet (to the best of my knowledge) and typically the pawns/battles minis aren't made available right away when a bestiary is released.
Am I misunderstanding what kinds of monsters can make it into a PFS scenario?
Ahhh! That makes sense, I was definitely confusing the two.
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Meh. Sorry, but the source material just does not support Cthulhu being that strong. Being able to terrorize a boatload of low-level NPC classed characters does not necessarily equate to being able to do the same to a party of near-demigods like a high level Pathfinder party.Worse enough that a 20th level party will get crushed, driven insane, ruined, and killed. Not necessarily in that order.Does Cthulhu eat 1d4 player characters per round?Kinda, yeah. You'll see.Uh oh...
In terms of general gameplay mechanics, how much worse is is he compared to the CR 20 Star-Spawn from Wake of the Watcher? If a non-mythic party tries to go up against him, do they end up like PCs from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu?
Yeah, being 200-300' tall...slowly driving the entire world insane...the ability to cross space...immortality...the ability to reform your body from an almost gaseous form...unknown magical abilities that compare him to godhood...not meaningful at all, when it really comes down to it. :p
Hmm nice move of reveiling Cthulhu and Kaiju so fast... now people only talk about those critters...
Yeah, being 200-300' tall...slowly driving the entire world insane...the ability to cross space...immortality...the ability to reform your body from an almost gaseous form...unknown magical abilities that compare him to godhood...not meaningful at all, when it really comes down to it. :pMeh. Sorry, but the source material just does not support Cthulhu being that strong. Being able to terrorize a boatload of low-level NPC classed characters does not necessarily equate to being able to do the same to a party of near-demigods like a high level Pathfinder party.Worse enough that a 20th level party will get crushed, driven insane, ruined, and killed. Not necessarily in that order.Does Cthulhu eat 1d4 player characters per round?Kinda, yeah. You'll see.Uh oh...
In terms of general gameplay mechanics, how much worse is is he compared to the CR 20 Star-Spawn from Wake of the Watcher? If a non-mythic party tries to go up against him, do they end up like PCs from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu?
The last two aren't in the original stories as far as I can tell. For the rest... not so special on a world like Oerth or Golarion, except the thing about driving the world insane which isn't exactly Cthulhu's doing alone as I recall. My point is not that Cthulhu isn't powerful, but that there is no reason to say that he is particulary powerful in a fantasy world that is much higher in general power level than Cthulhu's original world.
So -- there was mention of creatures playable as player character races. Does anyone have any spoilers or speculations as to what the new races might be?
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The last two aren't in the original stories as far as I can tell. For the rest... not so special on a world like Oerth or Golarion, except the thing about driving the world insane which isn't exactly Cthulhu's doing alone as I recall. My point is not that Cthulhu isn't powerful, but that there is no reason to say that he is particulary powerful in a fantasy world that is much higher in general power level than Cthulhu's original world.Yeah, being 200-300' tall...slowly driving the entire world insane...the ability to cross space...immortality...the ability to reform your body from an almost gaseous form...unknown magical abilities that compare him to godhood...not meaningful at all, when it really comes down to it. :pMeh. Sorry, but the source material just does not support Cthulhu being that strong. Being able to terrorize a boatload of low-level NPC classed characters does not necessarily equate to being able to do the same to a party of near-demigods like a high level Pathfinder party.Worse enough that a 20th level party will get crushed, driven insane, ruined, and killed. Not necessarily in that order.Does Cthulhu eat 1d4 player characters per round?Kinda, yeah. You'll see.Uh oh...
In terms of general gameplay mechanics, how much worse is is he compared to the CR 20 Star-Spawn from Wake of the Watcher? If a non-mythic party tries to go up against him, do they end up like PCs from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu?
You should read more Lovecraft. :p
So -- there was mention of creatures playable as player character races. Does anyone have any spoilers or speculations as to what the new races might be?
Pigs...in space.
There will be some of the monsters from Epic srd? like:
Abominations
Umbral Blot
Epic Dragons (outer dragons perhaps?)
Colossus
LeShay
Paragon Template
Pseudonatural Template
or they are for Bestiary 5 maybe?
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Meh. Sorry, but the source material just does not support Cthulhu being that strong. Being able to terrorize a boatload of low-level NPC classed characters does not necessarily equate to being able to do the same to a party of near-demigods like a high level Pathfinder party.Worse enough that a 20th level party will get crushed, driven insane, ruined, and killed. Not necessarily in that order.Does Cthulhu eat 1d4 player characters per round?Kinda, yeah. You'll see.Uh oh...
In terms of general gameplay mechanics, how much worse is is he compared to the CR 20 Star-Spawn from Wake of the Watcher? If a non-mythic party tries to go up against him, do they end up like PCs from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu?
It also doesn't support him NOT being that strong.
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Meh. Sorry, but the source material just does not support Cthulhu being that strong. Being able to terrorize a boatload of low-level NPC classed characters does not necessarily equate to being able to do the same to a party of near-demigods like a high level Pathfinder party.Worse enough that a 20th level party will get crushed, driven insane, ruined, and killed. Not necessarily in that order.Does Cthulhu eat 1d4 player characters per round?Kinda, yeah. You'll see.Uh oh...
In terms of general gameplay mechanics, how much worse is is he compared to the CR 20 Star-Spawn from Wake of the Watcher? If a non-mythic party tries to go up against him, do they end up like PCs from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu?
Well you have to remember he had just woken up, at least let the Eldritch Abomination have a cup of coffee before you write him off. I know I can't function at full power without a pot or two. ;)
Kaiju! Demon Lords! AND Cthulhu! <faints>
Do you have more Wonderland creatures?
Cheshire Cats?
March Hares?
Borogrove?
Snap-Dragonfly?
Playing Card soldiers?
Mock Turtle?
Snark?
Formians? As in originally from the Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus? Hmmm... What about Modrons? They go back even further.
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Modrons are closed content aren't they?
NO to 2! Cthulhu's too bad to be good!A definite maybe to all three.1. Will there be race creation costs for the abilities of the new pc races?
2. Will we be able to redeem Cthulhu from the dark side?
3. Will there be mythic muskrats?
Anyone can be redeemed. It just takes four little words—
helm of opposite alignment.
Sure, Cthulhu probably has a Will save high enough he only fails on a 1, but that's still a 5% chance.
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Formians? As in originally from the Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus?
No, as in originally just another inhabitant of the material plane (AD&D Monster Manual II, 1983), and then from Arcadia (Planes of Law boxed set, 1995). They were only moved to Mechanus in 3e (2000).
Creative Director
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Formians? As in originally from the Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus?No, as in originally just another inhabitant of the material plane (AD&D Monster Manual II, 1983), and then from Arcadia (Planes of Law boxed set, 1995). They were only moved to Mechanus in 3e (2000).
And in fact as originally from a number of old stories back in the Pulps, many decades before D&D ever came about in the first place.
So, when the first art-preview blogs start? :-P
Can't wait!
No Modron, I can live with. They were an interesting idea, but a bit goofy. Like the idea of Formians, though.
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NO to 2! Cthulhu's too bad to be good!A definite maybe to all three.1. Will there be race creation costs for the abilities of the new pc races?
2. Will we be able to redeem Cthulhu from the dark side?
3. Will there be mythic muskrats?
Anyone can be redeemed. It just takes four little words—
helm of opposite alignment.
Sure, Cthulhu probably has a Will save high enough he only fails on a 1, but that's still a 5% chance.
That's a big *****in' helmet.
What I meant was you all couldn't reprint them , so they couldn't be in a hardcover bestiary.
In Pathfinder, Formians are from the planet Castrovel, or at least very common there. I am sure you can find them somewhere on Golarion though.
I hope to see the Cheshire Cat at least.
Man I keep reading them as Formorians. Though I do hope to see them there.
That's a big *****in' helmet.NO to 2! Cthulhu's too bad to be good!A definite maybe to all three.1. Will there be race creation costs for the abilities of the new pc races?
2. Will we be able to redeem Cthulhu from the dark side?
3. Will there be mythic muskrats?
Anyone can be redeemed. It just takes four little words—
helm of opposite alignment.
Sure, Cthulhu probably has a Will save high enough he only fails on a 1, but that's still a 5% chance.
It's also assuming magical items (even CURSED ones) work on beings like the Great Old Ones as well as other beings of deific power (such as Archdevils, Demon Lords, Empyreal Lords, Elemental Lords, etc etc)
Yup; Modrons are off limits.
Aren't Inevitables in the Pathfinder setting sort of like the Modrons of AD&D Planescape?
Kinda makes me wonder if their are Inevitables on the same level of power as Archdevils and Demon Lords?
Can anyone say Primus?
No Modron, I can live with. They were an interesting idea, but a bit goofy. Like the idea of Formians, though.
Speaking of Insectoid (or Arachnian) species, has Paizo done Scorpion Folk yet? Just wondering.
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Will the Kaiju be an entirely new size class (like "Titanic") or did you just settle for Colossal size James?
Speaking of Insectoid (or Arachnian) species, has Paizo done Scorpion Folk yet? Just wondering.
Shame on you! You don't even own bestiary 3 and you are in a bestiary 4 thread! :-p
Girtablilu (the scorpion ladies) are like the most notable and beautiful picture/artwork in Bestiary 3, so you should have known that!
Holy poop! This is awesome.
I see Formians on the list, and recall that they were mentioned as inhabitants of Castrovel. Does this mean we might see some other Distant Worlds/extraterrestrial monsters in Bestiary 4?
Also, I absolutely loved the creatures of different mythologies that popped up in B3; any chance we might see some more of this in B4? (Particularly Native American- north and south- mythologies?)
Can't wait!
I am sure that the bestiary 4 will have some good mythical creatures from various cultures but more then likely not as much as bestiary 3 did. I hope for some more Japanese mythical creatures as well as Native American, African, Australian, Polynesian, Chinese, and Russian.
I am sure we will get...
-at least 5 playable 0HD races
-3-5 familiars(w/ Improved feat)
-at least 1 animal companion
-3-6 new golems
-3-5 new "true" giants(like fire, frost, etc.)
-at least 20 new evil outsiders
-at least 2 good outsiders
-5 "true" dragons and several others
-1-3 new troll(s)
-at least 2 new gremlins
-2-4 new drakes
-at least 10 fey...maybe even 20...maybe
-at least 1 elemental but I am sure a lot more
-5-8 cryptids
-at least 20 undead
-at least 4 templates
-at least 2 kaiju because why only one heck make it 3, 4, or 5...
-6-11 standard lovecraftian horrors
-2-4 old ones
-7-15 plant creatures
-1-3 Tane
-3-10 non-good/evil outsiders
-2-5 robots
-6-10 non-golem/robot constructs
-4-8 dinosaurs
-4-8 megafauna
-hopefully only 1-2 demon lords but more then likely 3-5
-20-50 creatures from past books(mostly APs)
-7-12 other types of giants
-0-4 Linnorms
-1-4 creatures inspired by movies or tv shows
-2-8 creatures inspired by pulp magazines
-0-4 lycanthropes
-4-9 other types of dragons
-5-12 oozes
-10-20 monstrous humanoids
-20+ magical beast
-10+ giant vermin
-at least 2 swarms
-7+ giant animals
-13+ aberrations
-at least 2 new outsider subtypes/subcategories
-30+ creatures from myth
I think they keep the tradition of 3 new drakes, 2 new trolls, 4 new dinosaurs (I hope therizinosaurus and tanystropheus don't share a page if they are both in there), 4 new megafauna, 20 creatures taken from movies, books and other such entertainment (because that is the theme is my guess, just look at grendel, cthulhu and nosferatu on the cover)
I hope there will be zero Linnorms this time as those are overwhelmed in bestiary 3.
I hope you are right about 20 fey and 15 plants, I also wanna see a lot of oozing action, but this time not garden oozes, but oozes with special hungers for metal, blood and other non-flesh stuff.
I think the book will have 4 demon lords, 4 gods or Elohim, and 4 great old ones.
And I think you are wrong about the templates, I think there are much more undead-based templates in this book, I hope not, but i'm positive as Nosferatu is also a template of course.
Because of their populairity I think there will be around 6 Kaiju...
Most of all I want to see the missing Vermin and many magical beast in there, but my guess is that they will be underwhelmed in there.
Are the kaiju going to be a template of some kind we can use to make our own (like in the Dragon article), or are they just going to be a number of specific, rare/unique monsters?
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That's a big *****in' helmet.
Good thing magic items adjust to fit whoever wears them.
I absolutely love monster books. I hope so much that Bestiary 4 is NOTHING like WotC's Monster Manual 4. I absolutely love Paizo's stuff.
I would like to see all the different undeads turned into templates (similar to skeleton and zombie), as I always thought undead made sense more as templates than just a straight-up creature. Humans aren't the only ones that have skeletons, or can be mummified, etc.
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Will the Kaiju be an entirely new size class (like "Titanic") or did you just settle for Colossal size James?They're Colossal. But they have some special rules, and their space and reach are bigger than 30 feet.
Are any of them big enough to justify having their presence on the mat be two separate enormous feet? ^.^
Speaking of Insectoid (or Arachnian) species, has Paizo done Scorpion Folk yet? Just wondering.
Shame on you! You don't even own bestiary 3 and you are in a bestiary 4 thread! :-p
Girtablilu (the scorpion ladies) are like the most notable and beautiful picture/artwork in Bestiary 3, so you should have known that!
I do own it but you'll have to forgive me if I don't have the time or the energy to look through or remember EVERY SINGLE MONSTER ENTRY throughout all three bestiaries. Working at 3 jobs will sorta do that to ya.
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Do yourself one of the biggest fiction-related favors you will ever do in your life and take it back off the list. :( Seriously.I see that the elohim are mentioned as a race. Am I correct in presuming that they may be inspired/connected to the Elohim race in the Chonicles of Thomas Covenant as opposed to a more religious approach?To the contrary. Though now Mr. Covenant is on my reading list. ;)
Again! Bestiaries are Educational!
Total disagree here. Covenant is an acquired taste, but if you can get past the Covenant/Lena nastiness near the beginning of Lord Fouls Bane; I think Wes will be just fine. Some of the most "mature fantasy" you can ever read, and a good two decades before Game of Thrones.
You will find yourself screaming at the protagonist to believe; but it is the secondary characters that really carry the books (Bannor, Mhoram, Elena, Saltheart, etc.).
It is my favorite fantasy series by far. I heartily recommend these Chronicles.
New player-friendly races, familiars, and constructs...player friendly constructs...interesting.
Outer Dragons, I hope related to the outer planes or outer space, either version would be interesting.
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Creative Director
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Are the kaiju going to be a template of some kind we can use to make our own (like in the Dragon article), or are they just going to be a number of specific, rare/unique monsters?
The kaiju are specific unique monsters. I wrote the template for Dragon back in the day, and it took up a lot of pages. We don't have that kind of luxury in a Bestiary... and I was never 100% satisfied with how the template article turned out anyway, since it's so much better to have specific monsters with unique powers in this case.
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Will there be any Kaiju based off of this big fellow by the wonderful David Allsop, who was supposed to appear in Bestiary 3 with the Kaiju template before it got nixed?
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Meh. Sorry, but the source material just does not support Cthulhu being that strong. Being able to terrorize a boatload of low-level NPC classed characters does not necessarily equate to being able to do the same to a party of near-demigods like a high level Pathfinder party.Worse enough that a 20th level party will get crushed, driven insane, ruined, and killed. Not necessarily in that order.Does Cthulhu eat 1d4 player characters per round?Kinda, yeah. You'll see.Uh oh...
In terms of general gameplay mechanics, how much worse is is he compared to the CR 20 Star-Spawn from Wake of the Watcher? If a non-mythic party tries to go up against him, do they end up like PCs from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu?
Yeah, I'd rather stay loyal to the source material myself.
Anyway, all these Cthulhu debaters are derailing the topic a little bit.
We should focus on the other cool stuff that's gonna be in this Bestiary as well!
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Creative Director
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Will there be any Kaiju based off of this big fellow by the wonderful David Allsop, who was supposed to appear in Bestiary 3 with the Kaiju template before it got nixed?
Nope.
That's a really cool picture, but it's also part of the reason we didn't go with a kaiju as a template in Bestiary 3... because if that was a template... what was the base monster?
We might do something with that critter some day. I hope we do. It's too cool NOT to do something.
I don't wanna mix the Lovecraft and the Godzilla too much though. Not everything is as good together as peanut butter and chocolate.