Monkeying Around

Eeeeexcelent

I removed an edition war tangent.

Changing flurry of blows affects all monks (a core class), who by default all have the flurry of blows ability.

Changing scar hex affects only the subset of witches (not a core class) who choose that hex from the supplemental book Ultimate Magic.

Making a big change to flurry of blows (or AOMF) has a much greater impact on the player base, the game, and the Golarion setting than making a big change to scar hex. I'd argue that making an average or even a small change to flurry still has more impact on the player base, the game, and the setting than making a change to scar hex does.

It's like a big change to the Windows OS vs. a big change to the Mac OS; the big change to Windows is going to affect more users, more computers, and more programs, than an equivalent change to the Mac software.

To be fair, I think it's safe to say that at this point in time, "Base Class" and "Core Class" mean pretty much the same thing. You'd be practically kidding yourself if you tell yourself otherwise (in my experience anyway).

Everything else I'm on board with.

I think it is more of the fact that the scar hex is from Ultimate Magic the CRB+APG that most people feel form the core PFRPG ruleset.

What Azaelas said.

Not sure I understand the AoMF DR thing. Is it saying that at +3 it bypasses all DR or what?

It uses the same rules as other weapons, which can be found here.

The mention in the blog is in reference to this FAQ entry.

In short, no, a +3 Amulet of Mighty Fists does not overcome all DR.

Hope that helps! :)

It uses the same rules as other weapons, which can be found here.

The mention in the blog is in reference to this FAQ entry.

In short, no, a +3 Amulet of Mighty Fists does not overcome all DR.

Hope that helps! :)

I see now, so essentially keeping 1 point of Ki gives you the same thing.

Thanks.

[tangent]I think by #1 he was referring to the introduction of chocolate dice, and using M&Ms to track hitpoints.[/tangent]

I have a guess. M&M may refer to Myth & Magic, a 2e retroclone.

Cheapy wrote:

It uses the same rules as other weapons, which can be found here.

The mention in the blog is in reference to this FAQ entry.

In short, no, a +3 Amulet of Mighty Fists does not overcome all DR.

Hope that helps! :)

I see now, so essentially keeping 1 point of Ki gives you the same thing.

Thanks.

Other than a few strange cases, yep! A +5 AoMF would let you overcome any alignment DR, while the ki point thing just does Lawful, IIRC. So getting that +5 Amulet is still helpful, especially against Evil types.

Someone in another thread pointed out you could just get Holy on your AoMF to bypass DR/good instead of static enhancement bonuses.

While true, I don't know why anyone would want a holy fist of buttkicking.

Who wouldn't?

While true, I don't know why anyone would want a holy fist of buttkicking.

It's cheaper and thus leaves you cash for other stuff :-)

Also, what Tacticslion said :-P

Who wouldn't?

You beat me to it...

So with a +5 AoMF a Monk has taken care of most DRs, if not all, and has the same advantage a TWF character with two +5 weapons has. Correct?

Also am I the only one who suddenly wants to build a Whirlwind Attacking Monk whose schtick is roundhouse kicking and then saying Roadhouse....

Um, an Amulet of Holy Fist is a +2 modifier. So you can have a +3 Amulet of Holy Fist allowing you to overcome Cold Iron, Silver and Good DR from the amulet, where as a full +5 Amulet of Mighty Fist overcomes just about everything but Typeless, Epic, Damage (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing).

I think you can go straight to Holy without the +1 first, so that would be pretty cheap to overcome Cold Iron, Silver and Good.

16,000 vs 100,000

What other DR can the AoMF +5 overcome that actually come up a lot? Adamantine is one. Of the alignment ones Good is going to be by far the most useful.

Obviously you would miss those static enhancement bonuses for to-hit reasons though. But that is a lot of extra money to spend.

A +3 Holy AoMF is still the cost of a +5 AoMF.

While true, I don't know why anyone would want a holy fist of buttkicking.

I'd want it for theme alone.

If you start with holy on your AoMF you're still missing stuff. Unless you've got a bard you kind of need that accuracy boost.

I think flurry of misses is probably alive and well, though single weapon flurry's interaction with power attack at least means that single weapon monks can hit hard enough to make up for it.

Question: Can a Monk Flurry with a weapon held in Two Hands? In 3.x there was a caveat in the wording where they couldn't.

A +3 Holy AoMF is still the cost of a +5 AoMF.

No one said anything about a +3 Holy AoMF.

It's not my idea and I'm not even saying I would do it but come on. Reading comprehension.

Everyone would, Mikaze. Everyone would. :)

Cheapy wrote:

While true, I don't know why anyone would want a holy fist of buttkicking.

I'd want it for theme alone.

Everyone would, Mikaze. Everyone would. :)

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

A +3 Holy AoMF is still the cost of a +5 AoMF.

No one said anything about a +3 Holy AoMF.

It's not my idea and I'm not even saying I would do it but come on. Reading comprehension.

Sorry misread. No need to be rude.

Ah man. I feel bad now.

Ah man. I feel bad now.

It is fine.

Heck, It wasn't even your post I misread...

For some reason I thought somewhere it stated that you didn't count the Enhancement increases from Special Properties for anything other than Price. With DR/Epic being the Exception.

Holy is a +2 bonus, that means just a straight Holy Amulet costs the same as a +2 Amulet. A +3 Amulet with Holy on it costs just as much as a +5 Amulet. The +5 Amulet overcomes more DR, and gives you the +2 static modifier. The extra damage dice from Holy only function against evil opponents (admittedly, a significant majority), and overcomes DR/Good, while the +5 Amulet functions against everyone and overcomes Cold Iron, Silver, Adamantine, Chaotic, Lawful, Evil and Good.

It is more advantageous to get the +5 Amulet than the +3 Holy Amulet once you can afford it. Before you can afford a +5 Amulet, Holy is more advantageous than static bonuses as the DR/Good will come up quite often. But once you can get a +5 Amulet, it's better than keeping the Holy Amulet.

Tacticslion wrote:

Who wouldn't?

You beat me to it...

So with a +5 AoMF a Monk has taken care of most DRs, if not all, and has the same advantage a TWF character with two +5 weapons has. Correct?

Also am I the only one who suddenly wants to build a Whirlwind Attacking Monk whose schtick is roundhouse kicking and then saying Roadhouse....

well...i'd have chosen to say....boot to the head.

And another one for the wimp.

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Tacticslion wrote:

Who wouldn't?

You beat me to it...

So with a +5 AoMF a Monk has taken care of most DRs, if not all, and has the same advantage a TWF character with two +5 weapons has. Correct?

Also am I the only one who suddenly wants to build a Whirlwind Attacking Monk whose schtick is roundhouse kicking and then saying Roadhouse....

well...i'd have chosen to say....boot to the head.

This is what I was thinking of...

Holy is a +2 bonus, that means just a straight Holy Amulet costs the same as a +2 Amulet. A +3 Amulet with Holy on it costs just as much as a +5 Amulet. The +5 Amulet overcomes more DR, and gives you the +2 static modifier. The extra damage dice from Holy only function against evil opponents (admittedly, a significant majority), and overcomes DR/Good, while the +5 Amulet functions against everyone and overcomes Cold Iron, Silver, Adamantine, Chaotic, Lawful, Evil and Good.

It is more advantageous to get the +5 Amulet than the +3 Holy Amulet once you can afford it. Before you can afford a +5 Amulet, Holy is more advantageous than static bonuses as the DR/Good will come up quite often. But once you can get a +5 Amulet, it's better than keeping the Holy Amulet.

I thought the comparison that was being made was between a straight Holy Amulet vs a +5 Amulet. Overcome cold iron, silver and the most common alignment DR for 16,000 GP. I don't know what you would spend the extra 84,000 GP or how you would hit anything without the static bonuses though. Maybe I read too much into what he was saying but that's what I thought he meant.

A +0 Holy AoMF doesn't overcome cold iron or silver; only DR/Good. It takes a +3 enhancement bonus (not including special properties) to bypass cold iron or silver damage reduction. +4 enhancement bonus to overcome adamantin damage redution, and a +5 enhancemnt bonus to overcome alignment-based damage reduction.

So, if the Holy AoMF overcomes cold iron and silver, that means it is a +3 Holy AoMF; i.e., a +5 total bonus.

MA

The new ki point thing. That's where the cold iron and silver get bypassed.

True, but that isn't an intrinsic property of the Amulet.

MA

Nope it isn't.

Correct. And I never said it is ;-)

But with the new rules you don't need to invest a lot right from the start to overcome DR.

Tels pretty much understood it :-)

There's still the bodywrap option to raise your to-hit alongside a special properties enhanced amulet, but it seems a complicated one.

Actually, under the DR rules it just says it has to have a +3 bonus. Which technically a +1 Holy AoMF does have.

Tels wrote:

Holy is a +2 bonus, that means just a straight Holy Amulet costs the same as a +2 Amulet. A +3 Amulet with Holy on it costs just as much as a +5 Amulet. The +5 Amulet overcomes more DR, and gives you the +2 static modifier. The extra damage dice from Holy only function against evil opponents (admittedly, a significant majority), and overcomes DR/Good, while the +5 Amulet functions against everyone and overcomes Cold Iron, Silver, Adamantine, Chaotic, Lawful, Evil and Good.

It is more advantageous to get the +5 Amulet than the +3 Holy Amulet once you can afford it. Before you can afford a +5 Amulet, Holy is more advantageous than static bonuses as the DR/Good will come up quite often. But once you can get a +5 Amulet, it's better than keeping the Holy Amulet.

I thought the comparison that was being made was between a straight Holy Amulet vs a +5 Amulet. Overcome cold iron, silver and the most common alignment DR for 16,000 GP. I don't know what you would spend the extra 84,000 GP or how you would hit anything without the static bonuses though. Maybe I read too much into what he was saying but that's what I thought he meant.

Taken out of the context of the new flurry with one weapon and the ki strike alteration ir's difficult..

1. You can invest more into a weapon and your UAS still is effective
2. You add special abilities like ghost touch
3. You can still get static bonuses from feats and GMW
4. Protective and boost gear which lets you use different ability stats
5. Get better amulets when you can afford them but not be frustrated by DR at lower levels
6. Slotless amulet affordable - still use your neck slot for sth else
7. More reasons... :-)

Actually, under the DR rules it just says it has to have a +3 bonus. Which technically a +1 Holy AoMF does have.

Uhn, no :-)

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Actually, under the DR rules it just says it has to have a +3 bonus. Which technically a +1 Holy AoMF does have.

Uhn, no :-)

And from lvl 7 on you don't need the +3 anymore... Except to boost attack bonus.

How does it not have a +3? +1 & Holy(+2) makes it a +3. The DR rules doesn't state it has to be a Static bonus just a +3 bonus.

By the logic of havig to have a Static Bonus to have them bypass DR, it is impossible to have a +6 bonus to negate DR/Epic.

Sangalor wrote:

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Actually, under the DR rules it just says it has to have a +3 bonus. Which technically a +1 Holy AoMF does have.

Uhn, no :-)

And from lvl 7 on you don't need the +3 anymore... Except to boost attack bonus.

How does it not have a +3? +1 & Holy(+2) makes it a +3. The DR rules doesn't state it has to be a Static bonus just a +3 bonus.

By the logic of havig to have a Static Bonus to have them bypass DR, it is impossible to have a +6 bonus to negate DR/Epic.

The rules state that it has to ba an enhancement bonus, which IS the static bonus.

So yes, you cannot directly create epic weapons like that. Only with specific combinations like +4 bane it is possible.

You add the Special Properties enhancement bonuses to the Static bonuses to determine the full Enhancement of the Weeapon/Armour/Amulet/etc.

You add the Special Properties enhancement bonuses to the Static bonuses to determine the full Enhancement of the Weeapon/Armour/Amulet/etc.

Only for PRICING the item. Not for anything else.

Carefully read the section again :-)

We read that wrong for a long time in my group as well.

Wow... So then it isn't worth the time to add any properties until you reach a +5 enhancement.

And just in case they encounter the Terrasque every Group needs +5 Bane(Magical Beast) Melee & Ranged Weapons for the entire party.

Nah I think special properties are still pretty popular in my group at least. When something shows up with DR some characters are carrying backup weapons and special arrows for the material DR's. Some times big hitters like 2HF types just don't worry about and do a little less damage with a swing. Damage spells. Stuff like that. That's just my group though, not the most optimal bunch.

Neither are my groups.

Though I tend to focus only on the Static Bonuses simply for the lack of any properties I like. Well, I do like Impact just for the image it gives me.

According to James Jacobs, the +2 increase from the Bane property doesn't stack to overcome DR/Epic. Make of that what you will, but I figured I should toss it out there.