Am I the only one wondering if this class outshines the arcane spellcasters early on?
From what I've experienced in play a wizard or sorcerer is still going to have more castings each day and will still have more of their bread and butter abilities (battlefield control, buffing, debuffing, and summoning) than the magus will ever hope to have at all levels.
Really what the magus does is be an 'arcane striker' for lack of better terms. He's the magical (arcane magical) equivalent to the paladin healer.
He can bash and he can blow things up with magic... but he's kind of skimping on everything else.
It is nice that he can get by with very few spell focus feats though.
I mean, a lot of useful stuff were given to the magus. I mean, spell recall?! why shouldn't a wizard get that?
Or a sorcerer?
I just think, and I dm mostly low-level and low-magic
that the magus will outshine every possible class I have.
I like the changes to spell strike. With this, Close Range becomes a very good arcana choice, allowing the magus to get a free attack each round by using Acid Splash (granting him melee rapid shot). At later levels, Intensified Shocking Grasp becomes a good choide, too.
This is kind of my issue with it...
I mean, I`m sure Paizo thinks this is balanced for the Magus itself...But now your Fighter/Barb can just take a minor dip into Magus and spam Cantrips all the Full Attack day, getting an extra attack which stacks with Haste/etc.
What Class Level will make something like a Giant or other Big Brute rock out the most with just 1 or 2 Class Levels?
ALL they need to get out of the Class is an extra (stacking) attack per round and it is hugely more effective than 1 or 2 levels of Fighter or Barbarian. For using Cantrips. Extra benefits like Will Save and utility spells are just frosting.
Am I the only one wondering if this class outshines the arcane spellcasters early on?I'm currently playing a Magus in a group with a fire-focused Draconic-bloodline Half-Orc Sorcerer (we're all just recently turned level 3).
He does *way* more damage than I do. I provide more flanking bonuses than him.
Try adding an extra attack whenever you Full Attack + Cast,
which is one of the changes from Beta.
I mean, look at the magus spell list. It's got most of the useful spells covered. I mean, what's a first level wizard need that a magus doesn't have?
An "Erase" spell?
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This is kind of my issue with it...
I mean, I`m sure Paizo thinks this is balanced for the Magus itself...But now your Fighter/Barb can just take a minor dip into Magus and spam Cantrips all the Full Attack day, getting an extra attack which stacks with Haste/etc.
What Class Level will make something like a Giant or other Big Brute rock out the most with just 1 or 2 Class Levels?
ALL they need to get out of the Class is an extra (stacking) attack per round and it is hugely more effective than 1 or 2 levels of Fighter or Barbarian. For using Cantrips. Extra benefits like Will Save and utility spells are just frosting.
This 'minor' dip takes three levels. To use spellstrike effectively, the character also has to cast defensively. Even with a DC of 15, the chance of failure is still rather big, leaving the character with a -2 on all attack rolls without any gain.
They also need a free hand to use spell combat and I'm not sure how that functions with two-handed weapons (and one-handed weapons wielded in two hands).While I haven't seen the final version, the pieces offered here seem fine, even when combined with other classes.
I mean, a lot of useful stuff were given to the magus. I mean, spell recall?! why shouldn't a wizard get that?Because they're different classes?
Why can't a wizard cast all his spells spontaneously?
Why can't a sorceror cast freely in light armor?
Why can't a magus have an arcane-bonded longsword?
Why can't a fighter make sneak attacks?
You don't have to be sarcastic.
Thematically speaking, a wizard is more suitable for this ability -thematically- than the magus.BTW
Sorcerers in light armor?
Can be done.
Magus with arcane bonded longsword?
Look at the archetypes.
Fighter with sneak attacks?
Really?
I mean, really? that's not thematically appropriate.
The Magus archetypes do look sweet indeed. And it seems my call for two-weapon Magus' have been heard via the Spellblade.
I don't think my Hexblades will be replaced by Hexcrafters; some of the Hexblade's abilities (like Arcane Resistance, Mettle, Unluck Aura, and their Hex Curse) are still viable and I doubt the Hexcrafter will have any of those.
This book is taking too damn long to come out...and I am waiting on the PDF.
When you subscribers get it first, you know what to do ;)
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I don't think my Hexblades will be replaced by Hexcrafters; some of the Hexblade's abilities (like Arcane Resistance, Mettle, Unluck Aura, and their Hex Curse) are still viable and I doubt the Hexcrafter will have any of those.
Arcane Resistance and Mettle aren't likely, but I can't see how the hexcrafter won't get misfortune or evil eye, which may not be identical to the hexblade abilities but are certainly close enough for jazz.
My two biggest questions with spellstrike are what happens to the remaining duration on chill touch if you cast another touch spell like Shocking Grasp? I'm sure they wouldn't stack, would the chill touch end or be suppresed? Next, would you get another melee attack with a quickened touch spell?
It seems to me that in terms of raw damage Shocking grasp and metamagic feats might be the way to go. Level by level I couldn't seem to find anything compatible with spellstrike that out damages an intensified SG in the playtest list, and as you level grabbing empower, maximise and quicken makes it even nastier. Maybe something like this with a human:
I apologize for the lousy formatting, I'm not used to forum scripts and it seems to be ignoring all of my spaces
Traits:
Desperate Focus (+2 concentration)
Something else
Feats
1 Combat Casting
H Heighten spell (mostly useless but a requirement)
3 Weapon Focus (something with an 18-20 crit)
5 Preferred spell(SG)
5b Intensify spell
7 Empower spell (Kind of useful now, great later)
9 Either Maximize or a Combat feat depending on playstyle
11 Improved Crit (25% crit on 10d6 or 10d6x1.5... yes please!)
11b Probably a Fighter feat or Spell pen
13 Quicken spell (great now, better next level)
15 Spell Perfection (Free Quicken or Maximise on SG... nuff said)
Milestones:
2 Gain spellstrike Conc 8+int DC 17 For melee+2d6 extra
5 Preferred spell Never memorize SG again and metamagic it however you want spontaneously, level 1 SG damage potential maxed Conc 11+int DC 17 for melee +5d6
8 Improved Spell Combat Conc 16+int DC19 for melee+8d6
10 Level 2 SG damage potential maxed(10d6) 4th level spells available Conc 18+int DC 23 for melee+(10d6)x1.5 or melee+30(maximize)
11 Improved crit
13 Level 5 spells, Quicken Swift action melee+5d6 and/or Conc 21+int DC 25 for melee+60
15 Spell Perfection Swift action melee+(10d6)x1.5 and/or Conc 23+int DC 23 melee+60+((10d6)x0.5)
I don't know how that would stack up against a real optimized build, but it seems like it does decent damage, and doesn't seem to sacrifice much of its caster ability. It might have more aoe and utility than a lot of Magi since it isn't filling slots with touch spells.
Edit: Swapped Weapon Focus and Heighten Spell because of BAB requirements
@Froze_man
There is something better than socking grasp for the magus, scorching ray + close range arcana.
@Froze_man
There is something better than socking grasp for the magus, scorching ray + close range arcana.
How would that spell be adjudicated if used with spellstrike? Would you get a free melee attack for each ray? That seems a touch overpowered if so.
I mean, look at the magus spell list. It's got most of the useful spells covered. I mean, what's a first level wizard need that a magus doesn't have?
An "Erase" spell?
Summon monster, mount, mage armor, infernal healing, protection from evil, Endure Elements, Stumble Gap, Charm Person, Sleep, Magic Aura, Vanish, Cause Fear, Ray of Enfeeblement, Break, Animate Wind, Burning Disarm, Touch of Gracelessness
I don't know maybe one of the above... or all of them?
@Froze_man
There is something better than socking grasp for the magus, scorching ray + close range arcana.
I looked at Scorching Ray, its damage doesn't scale with level, only with the number of rays, so it is only better if you assume that you can get multiple rays off with one spellstrike action. Depending on how you adjudicate it, it either sucks (one spellstrike attack gets you melee plus one ray), is awkward(one melee attack plus ray, then two touch attacks), or downright broken(each ray gets a melee attack, meaning three melee attacks with spell damage added on as one standard action). I made the assumption that the three rays broke the "only one target" restriction of the close range arcana.
The other reason I chose Shocking Grasp:
Fire resistance/immunity is probably the most common, and would be taken off three times.
Shocking Grasp grants +3 to hit against targets in metal armour, which can be pretty significant in campaigns with humanoid opponents.
As a level one spell you can get a lot of mileage out of it as a spontaneous spell that can me metamagicked. Getting and extra attack, +3 to hit and 5d6 damage out of a level 1 spell is nothing to sneeze at at any level, and you can make a useful variation of the spell at pretty much every spell level, especially after you get spell perfection. That free maximize or quicken on level 1 spells is kind of wrong, since it's either a spell combat melee attack with a flat +30 damage or an extra attack plus 5d6 damage as a swift action using a level one slot.
That being said, I was posting more about using that strategy in general, than with that one specific spell. Shocking Grasp was just the best fit that I saw, Given the right answer to some of the aforementioned questions Scorching Ray could well be significantly better.
@Froze_man
There is something better than socking grasp for the magus, scorching ray + close range arcana.I looked at Scorching Ray, its damage doesn't scale with level, only with the number of rays, so it is only better if you assume that you can get multiple rays off with one spellstrike action. Depending on how you adjudicate it, it either sucks (one spellstrike attack gets you melee plus one ray), is awkward(one melee attack plus ray, then two touch attacks), or downright broken(each ray gets a melee attack, meaning three melee attacks with spell damage added on as one standard action). I made the assumption that the three rays broke the "only one target" restriction of the close range arcana.
The way my group plays scorching ray + close range arcana:
multiple melee touch attacks at the same target.scorching ray + close range arcana + spellstrike:
one melee touch attack for all rays at the same target.
The way my group plays scorching ray + close range arcana:
multiple melee touch attacks at the same target.
scorching ray + close range arcana + spellstrike:
one melee touch attack for all rays at the same target.
So that would make a spellstrike: One attack roll against the targets standard AC, if that hits then melee attack damage plus three separate sources of 4d6 fire damage right? I that case I'd probably keep it memorized for ranged attacks but I'd stick with Shocking Grasp as my preferred spell. Up until you get your third ray at level eleven, Scorching Ray does better damage at levels 3 and 7, the same at 4 and 8, and lower at 5,6,9 and 10. That combined with the fact that resistance comes off more often, makes me leery about it. It's not a bad spell for a Magus by any means, I just don't think it fits the type of build I laid out very well.
Also, Shocking Grasp gets you a bonus to attack against things that have metal on them. I actually think it's one of the best parts about using the spell.
I don't think my Hexblades will be replaced by Hexcrafters; some of the Hexblade's abilities (like Arcane Resistance, Mettle, Unluck Aura, and their Hex Curse) are still viable and I doubt the Hexcrafter will have any of those.Arcane Resistance and Mettle aren't likely, but I can't see how the hexcrafter won't get misfortune or evil eye, which may not be identical to the hexblade abilities but are certainly close enough for jazz.
The other thing is Hexblades have high BAB and d10 as well. Better suited for melee more so than the Magus. I might stick in witch Hexes for Hexblades, actually.
Cackle wildly and laugh at your expence? ;-)This book is taking too damn long to come out...and I am waiting on the PDF.
When you subscribers get it first, you know what to do ;)
(and wonder how much longer my bank account can take the punishment :)
This, of course, assumes that Scorching Ray is a valid choice for the Close Range arcana; I wonder if that was clarified in the rewrite.The way my group plays scorching ray + close range arcana:
multiple melee touch attacks at the same target.
scorching ray + close range arcana + spellstrike:
one melee touch attack for all rays at the same target.
Me too, as we have pointed out in this thread there are several ways to interpert that.
But now your Fighter/Barb can just take a minor dip into Magus and spam Cantrips all the Full Attack day, getting an extra attack which stacks with Haste/etc.This requires a minimum of a 2-level dip into Magus;
3 if there aren't any touch-range cantrips in Ultimate Magic.
Right, that`s why I was comparing it to adding several levels of Fighter/Barb.
Rogue or Sneak Attack Monsters may even more benefit, once you have alot of Sneak Attack.You don´t need any new Touch Cantrips to pull this off with 2 levels, unless the Magus is somehow losing the spell Arcane Mark and not gaining any other Touch Cantrips. Nobody bothered using Arcane Mark like this during the playtest because the ability worked exactly the opposite, such that doing so would have no benefit.
Moreover, it requires you to wield a one-handed weapon and nothing in your off-hand.
No two-weapon fighting, no shield, no two-handed weapon.
No 2WF... Except for the 2WF archetype introduced in this blog post allowing you to cast while wielding 2 force weapons. 2WF also doesn´t require an actual hand, e.g. use Armor Spikes with a Scimitar... Or a Monk Flurrying. And there so happens to be several ways for Barbarians to get multiple natural attacks along the lines of Gore/Bite/Claw/Claw... Not to mention the fact that MONSTERS have been known to have multiple Nat. Weapons on occasion. Sure, maybe a Greatsword is more optimal for some warriors to use, but it so happens that many brute-type monsters use weapons that can be wielded 1-handed, and an extra attack is more valuable than gaining 2 handed strength bonus.
There isn`t really any MAD if you don´t care about spellslots or Save DCs, besides that MAD is a dubious concept when talking about adding class levels to a monster, they either qualify or they don`t, and their stats probaby aren`t completly optimized ala point buy in the first place. If they can Cast Cantrips, they can pull this off, 1st level spells just let them get even more out of the deal.
You actually don´t need to worry about Casting Defensively/Provoking if you stay out of threat while Casting, which besides simply 5´ stepping, can be accomplished by Enlarging yourself, Lunging, using weapons like Scorpion Whip, or using Pole-Arms 1-handed via levels in Phalanx Fighter and using a Buckler. Besides the Classes I mentioned, Inquisitors are a Class that comes with Whip Proficiency and have a big per attack damage bonus... Hmm...
Or if you also want that option to be good at Cast Defensively, besides Combat Casting Feat, once you have an Arcana you can take the Casting Defensively Arcana and take the Extra Arcana Feat if you want another... besides any of the low-hanging Caster Level boosts helping you here.
*It doesn´t really matter if you can´t use this combo all the time* (say, because of Casting Defensively), because I´m just comparing it to 2 levels of Fighter/Bard, meaning you lose -1 BAB, HP, 2 Feats/Rage Power. Not to mention the better Saves and self-buffing capacity from actually using their spells effectively.
The Light Armor Casting could be a limiter, except that Mitrhil Breastplate more than qualifies and is likely what a Barbarian or Monster is using anyways, and of course for Rogues and Monsters, they may be wearing less than that anyways.
Until I hit level 3, I was able to do this trick 1x per day - my spell loadout was Shield x2 and a single melee touch spell in my 1st-level spell slot (Shocking Grasp or Chill Touch).Try adding an extra attack whenever you Full Attack + Cast,
which is one of the changes from Beta
I`m not really sure what you´re talking about. When did you do this trick?
The change was JUST announced, and previously worked exactly opposite with regards to getting an extra melee attack. Since this is a change, how it worked for you during the playtest doesn´t really matter.You´re also giving examples of a pure Magus AFAICT, which I already stated that I´m sure Paizo feels this is balanced for (though I personally differ, given previously there was a trade-off to gaining weapon crit range with existing iterative vs. using normal free touch attack, I´m explicitly not contesting that). I´m specifically talking about 2 levels of Magus on top of Melee grunts, Giants, Ogres with Fighter/Barb levels, Rogues, or equivalent types, and in comparison with adding 2 levels of Fighter/Barbarian.
The whole issue revolves around the fact that primary attacks tend to hit if you are a melee-focused class or monster race, so taking a -2 to all attacks to gain an extra attack at max BAB is really a no-brainer. There was a 3.5 Barbarian variant that let you do the same thing instead of gaining Rage HPs (Whirling Frenzy), and Paizo failed to institute a similar variant so far in PRPG... Probably because it was JUST TOO GOOD.
My two biggest questions with spellstrike are what happens to the remaining duration on chill touch if you cast another touch spell like Shocking Grasp? I'm sure they wouldn't stack, would the chill touch end or be suppresed?
I´m pretty sure it would work just like normal, and dissipate if you cast another spell while Holding the Charge... Holding the Charge doesn`t have any wording saying the charge is ´localized´ anywhere in particular, so DELIVERING the charges via your weapon wouldn´t seem to change anything there... To the point that even if you weapon is disarmed I think you could continue to deliver Held Charges via normal Touch Attacks or another weapon that you draw. Of course, not all Touch Spells need to be Held, e.g. Calcific Touch.
Next, would you get another melee attack with a quickened touch spell?
I for the life of me cannot see why not...
Which further exacerbates my critique of the -free melee attack in combo with Spell Combat Full Attack- rules change.High level / CR NPCs/Monsters could easily afford a Lesser Rod of Quicken, and this is ignoring that Cantrip level effects could easily be re-cast as Swift Spells ala Featherfall in a higher slot like a 1st Level slot. If Featherfall is 1st Level, is it really out of bounds for Swift Arcane Mark to not also be 1st Level?
...That´s all completely aside from the fact I LIKED how it previously worked for FULL Maguses, i.e. you make a choice between free Touch Attack that`s likely to hit OR use an EXISTING attack, gaining it´s Crit Range. That seemed pretty balanced for me, even if the Crit Multiplier stays the same for the spell effect.
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Okay, since it apparently wasn't noticed the first time I'll state it again:
To gain an extra attack, you have to successfully cast the spell. Unless you manage to avoid getting hit, you'll need a concentration check to do so. Even a cantrip has a DC of 15 to cast it defensively. Unless he also invests in feats like Combat Casting, a character who takes a two level dip in magus will have a chance below 50% to successfully cast a cantrip.
Two levels + limitations on weapons and armor + penalty on attack rolls + rather high chance of failure = overpowered?
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY HEXCRAFTER!
thank you paizo :)
Interesting loophole. I wonder how they'll address that
You don´t need any new Touch Cantrips to pull this off with 2 levels, unless the Magus is somehow losing the spell Arcane Mark and not gaining any other Touch Cantrips. Nobody bothered using Arcane Mark like this during the playtest because the ability worked exactly the opposite, such that doing so would have no benefit.
That seems a very fine hair to split as there is no melee touch attack in the spell description. That same tomfoolery could also be applied to Cat's Grace, also a touch spell without a melee touch attack.
I suspect, give the totality of ability, the spell needs to be a melee touch attack to qualify for giving you the extra weapon swing.
I for the life of me cannot see why not...
Which further exacerbates my critique of the -free melee attack in combo with Spell Combat Full Attack- rules change.
High level / CR NPCs/Monsters could easily afford a Lesser Rod of Quicken, and this is ignoring that Cantrip level effects could easily be re-cast as Swift Spells ala Featherfall in a higher slot like a 1st Level slot. If Featherfall is 1st Level, is it really out of bounds for Swift Arcane Mark to not also be 1st Level?
As far as i can tell it would take some shenanigans to use a metamagic rod as a Magus. You can't use one with spell combat, because you need to have a free hand, and you couldn't spellstrike with any spell with somatic components(need a free hand), or probably material components either (doesn't explicitly say that you need a free hand, but I'm guessing that most gms won't be ok with material components just spontaneously disappearing from a belt pouch)
If touch spells like Elemental or Calcific touch don't get dissipated by a shocking grasp, keeping one of those up would be good to add damage (or dex damage) to the rest of your attacks.
(and wonder how much longer my bank account can take the punishment :)Cackle wildly and laugh at your expence? ;-)This book is taking too damn long to come out...and I am waiting on the PDF.
When you subscribers get it first, you know what to do ;)
I think he meant drool. Not on the book, of course, off to the side using your GEORGE FOREMAN MOUTH! The drool drains out the side!
And then cackle. ; )
-The Beast
I mean, look at the magus spell list. It's got most of the useful spells covered. I mean, what's a first level wizard need that a magus doesn't have?
An "Erase" spell?Summon monster, mount, mage armor, infernal healing, protection from evil, Endure Elements, Stumble Gap, Charm Person, Sleep, Magic Aura, Vanish, Cause Fear, Ray of Enfeeblement, Break, Animate Wind, Burning Disarm, Touch of Gracelessness
I don't know maybe one of the above... or all of them?
Mount? - magus got it.
Mage Armor - magus can -wear- armor.Infernal Healing - What? where did you see this spell?
Protection from Alignment - The only valid point so far.
Endure Elements - So many ways to bypass the need for that spell. and cheap ones.
Sleep - ... it's only useful like... once.
Charm Person - I mean in-battle.
Stumble Gap - It's a nice spell, very situational.
Magic Aura- Very non-battle.
Vanish- What?
Cause Fear - Second valid point.
Ray on Enfeeblement - Third.
Break - I never understood that spell.
Animate Wind - again, what?
Burning Disarm - The whole question thing is getting kind of annoying.
Touch of Gracelessness - Fourth valid point.
Anyway, my true problem is that the magus gets both buffs and debuffs, most of the damage dealing stuff and even some illusions.
I can't see why an "Arcane Warrior" should have those spells and the ability to restore them after casting, and a wizard, who studies all magic his entire life can not.
It's just suprising me. I think we should have a variant or something.
BTW, a magus may even have a familiar.
Infernal Healing: The Inner Sea World Guide, page 295.
Vanish: Advanced Player's Guide, page 253.
Animate Wind: No idea.
Burning Disarm: Cheliax, Empire of Devils, page 22.
Infernal Healing: The Inner Sea World Guide, page 295.
Vanish: Advanced Player's Guide, page 253.
Animate Wind: No idea.
Burning Disarm: Cheliax, Empire of Devils, page 22.
Well those are campaign world spells (except for Vanish, which is good, I admit).
Let's keep things generic, shall we?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The Magus' biggest strength (IMNSHO) in the spell department is the spellbook. Moonglow's comment about sleep "... it's only useful like... once" doesn't matter to a prepared caster. Yeah who cares if you use it only 'once' if it's in your spellbook, you use it at low levels and keep it forever.
Sorcerers have their 'swap out' option, my arcane legionary has a class feature to snatch those misc arcane spells he might want, but is stuck with those spells. The magus has the wizards flexability in knowing spells on his list, but will miss some of those wizard spells.
(aside, I love endure elements. It's the 'cool looking' spell so you can do the 'Seoni in winter' thing, or the 'full plate in the Sahara' thing. Toss in the occasional prestidigitation to get the 'robes moving with no visible wind' for the cool spellcaster look.) :-)
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
If touch spells like Elemental or Calcific touch don't get dissipated by a shocking grasp, keeping one of those up would be good to add damage (or dex damage) to the rest of your attacks.
Actually, I changed my mind about the Calcific Touch thing...
The problem is this passage is vaguely written:Magic:Duration:
Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: (...) Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
´as part of the spell´ would normally make me think ´as part of all effects of the spell, i.e. for it´s duration´, but the last sentence gives you a hint that what is ACTUALLY intended is ´as part of casting the spell´ (or more specifically, as bonus free actions in the same turn as casting it, since any AoO´s provoked by taking these attacks shouldn´t disrupt the Casting itself). So the RAW isn´t exact here, but if you take RAI for that, Calcific Touch still counts as ´Holding the Charge´.
Calcific Charge also violates the statement: (in Combat:Actions in Combat: Standard Actions: Casting A Spell: Touch Spells in Combat: Holding the Charge) that , but that seems an acceptable variant case, so it seems like it can fall within the remit of Holding the Charge unless it specifically gives an exception (like duration, or attacks per round).
I would hazard that any spell which has as Target: You, or any other creature, whose effect is granting you (or the target) a Touch Attack for the duration, WOULDN´T be subject to Holding the Charge rules, and would NOT dissipate when another spell is cast... But that Touch Attack also couldn´t be delivered via weapon by a Magus, since that only works for Touch SPELLS, not any Touch Attack ability you happen to have.
Actually if the magus still gets enlarge person it may not need to cast defensively with spell combat as it would have a 5 foot reach. Also at higher levels get lunge so you do not have to cast defensively and take a penalty.
Great illustration Wayne Reynolds! :-)
+1 that is sheer awesomeness....
I would hazard that any spell which has as Target: You, or any other creature, whose effect is granting you (or the target) a Touch Attack for the duration, WOULDN´T be subject to Holding the Charge rules, and would NOT dissipate when another spell is cast... But that Touch Attack also couldn´t be delivered via weapon by a Magus, since that only works for Touch SPELLS, not any Touch Attack ability you happen to have.
Yeah, I can definitely see your point there. It's a tough call as to whether or not you can spellstrike the touch attacks on those spells. Earlier in the thread Jason Bulmahn suggested that with chill touch you could apply its touch attacks to your regular attacks until the charges ran out, so you can, presumably, spellstrike with touch attacks that aren't part of the initial casting of the spell. How the distinction between the wording on these spells affects things.
Chill touch seems fairly clear, it is a touch attacks with multiple charges.
...You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
So it seems that once you cast it you next (caster level) attacks will have the effect, unless you cast another spell discharging Chill Touch.
Calcific Touch is still range touch, but it has a duration and a limitation of once per round. It probably wouldn't be discharged by another spell, but I'm guessing you could still spellstrike the additional touch attacks.
I think I agree with you now that Elemental Touch wouldn't work though. Looking at it again, it isn't an attack spell, it is a buff spell, and Spellstrike has a clear requirement that the spell must be range:touch.
Right... Though I think it´s legit if you pre-Cast Elemental Touch,
and use Combat Casting IN ADDITION to the Elemental Touch Attacks. You probably can´t COMBINE them because you aren´t ´wielding´ a Touch Attack...
Casting Flame Blade via Druid Scroll/Wand or Multi-Class, since it explicitly counts as wielding a scimitar, seems like a crazy Magus option.... You need Imp Crit or similar to make it REALLY worthwhile, but with the extra attack via Spellstrike you are getting ALOT of chances to Crit, and confirms are almost automatic. No STR damage, but between spell effects (sharing scimitar threat range with confirms vs. touch), feats, and arcane strike, you should still be good. Good option, esp. for a non-STR focusing Magus.
I just realized that I didn't actually address the argument you made I just presented other points.
The problem is this passage is vaguely written:
The passage is less vague if you put it together with the Range: Touch passage.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
This would apply to spells such as Teleport, which has a range of "you and touched objects or other touched willing creatures"
You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.
I think they are making a distinction between spells that allow multiple touch attacks, and spells that allow multiple targets at range: touch, so I'd guess that the first line of this quote applies to spells like chill touch, and the second one applies to spells like teleport.
Well done paizo for fixing the magus attack problem.
My playtesting found magus full attacks sucked.
The one handed damage (with one handed power attack) blew.
Now combining Spellstrike (intensified shocking grasp) with spell combat (cone of cold- spell perfection maximised) with hasted attack of
14/9/4,14 (BAB15-2TWF+1Haste) before featsand weapon enchantments is awesome sauce.
Sure you can't do it all day. But you can rock hard when you do.
Well done paizo for fixing the magus attack problem.
My playtesting found magus full attacks sucked.
The one handed damage (with one handed power attack) blew.Now combining Spellstrike (intensified shocking grasp) with spell combat (cone of cold- spell perfection maximised) with hasted attack of
14/9/4,14 (BAB15-2TWF+1Haste) before featsand weapon enchantments is awesome sauce.Sure you can't do it all day. But you can rock hard when you do.
Either i didn't understand your post or i have understood something very wrong about how spellstrike and spell combat work together.
How are you getting two spells in one round (and neither of them is hasted)?The way i get it when you use spellstrike and spell combat:
level 2 magus, full attacks adjacent foe, uses spell combat which allows him to do one casting and one attack at -2, if he uses spellstrike for his casting he gets two attacks at -2 and one of them has a spell on it.
Did i get it right?