Player followers of evil deities in the AP [Spoilers]

While I don't think there is a party friendly way to play a follower of Rovagug, the other evil deities may not be so hostile to group work. I know there are plot reasons to disallow followers of Lamashtu or Norgorber, but what about the rest?

I'd bet a follower of Asmodeus is definitely in the clear; is there any plot specific reason to disallow players to follow Urgathoa or Zon-Kuthon?

For that matter, what about followers of Achaekek? And among Demon Lords, I could even see a follower of Pazuzu having reason to take an interest in Chopper's Isle... though that again might lead to party-unfriendly events.

We have a CN Cleric of Cthulhu in our group, and the main issue we've run across is that he's had to memorize healing spells, so can and does run out of them.

It mainly depends on how much hassle the DM causes for the cleric. Ours went out of his way to heal Sandpoint citizens when needed, mostly to keep from appearing like a crazy worshiper of an evil god. What he did in the dark of night staring off into the stars was his worship, not what he did during the light of day.

If you are looking for reasons to discourage Evil dietys clerics, then look at the Dieties involved in the Church of Sandpoint. I can see the priests having issue there with servants of gods opposed to their own.

There are some specific plot hooks up through the beginning of Book 4 that could prove problematic if certain NPCs figure out the cleric worships an evil god.

Otherwise, most of the events throughout the book pretty much only require that the party be devoted and loyal to sandpoint and care about its wellbeing. As long as you find a way to tie the cleric into that aspect of the story, and keep their faith hidden from key NPCs (who aren't paladins), its not unworkable.

However, IMO this is not the AP to experiment with evil characters. So YMMV...

Provided that the players are looking to work with the group and the campaign, I can see a ZK-follower working out in a similar manner as an Asmodean. Perhaps a bit more grim and less schemey. Taking a real ascetic and self-inflicted approach to their devotion can help make them more palatable to the rest of the party and many NPCs they may interact with.

(was the Black Monk a Kuthonite? He certainly had that feel about him. That could be an interesting scenario if so)

I don't remember anything specific that could cause issues with Urgathoa, but it's been a while. I tend to have a harder time envisioning non-evil party-friendly Urgathoan PCs, but it can be done with the right angles. Still, I have a hard time immediately seeing a hook for them in this campaign.

Achaekek worshippers can be awesome if played with the right angles. Like a Batman without limits or Jaqen H'gar. That Achaekek is a hitman for and a defender of the truly divine only provides more fun RP fuel between such characters and worshippers of other deities.

(if any villains, especially Karzoug, are built up as seeking to become gods among men, that gives Achaekek-worshippers one hell of a hook to see the AP through to the end)

YMMV, but IL'd avoid Pazuzu specifically because of hte Chopper issue. It really is a potential derail, especially if the rest of the party is decidedly not evil.

The big thing that'll help is making sure the players of any evil or evil-worshipping characters adhere to the Even Evil Has Standards trope.

There's an article about running RotRL as an all-evil PC campaign ("Heirs of Thassilon", page 76) in Wayfinder #7, written by Gary McBride, author of the Way of the Wicked evil AP series. It's more ideas for total conversion of the AP, but it has some material for dealing with evil-aligned PCs in RotRL. And the download is free, so other than a bit of bandwidth and your time, it can't hurt to at least glance at.

Thanks for the help, folks! I especially like the Red Mantis assassin vs. Karzoug angle. I'm not looking to specifically run an evil campaign on this, rather I'm a permissive GM who occasionally has players who like to play them. I basically leave it up to them to ensure an evil character can work with the party or NPCs. (I also don't assume paladins are always using detect evil, since it is a spell-like ability and they'd have to stop several times a day to cast it, especially at low levels, and concentrate the whole time - and even then would miss most "evil" below 4 hit dice, which is most of the people in the world.) However, while it is up to them to make sure they don't get killed/run off for some bit of nastiness, it is up to me to make sure the plot doesn't force them into that situation... and for an AP, that means disallowing certain concepts ahead of time. So we don't have a, "Wait, why am I fighting the Skinsaw Men when we want the same thing?" situation.

A cleric of Urgathoa is actually quite easy to put into a non-evil party (as long as there is not a Paladin with them). The Urgathoan faith is quite none-aggressive for an evil deity and despite being on the hit-list of about three different deities she harbours them no ill-will, she just wants to indulge her vile appetites in peace.

After further research, I think a follower of Glhaunder(sp?) could be interesting. It says in more than one source that a cleric might actually help protect a community he is "feeding" on, though not out of altruism. The only problem I can see here is the 3rd adventure - all the rest can be justified in protecting Sandpoint, either directly or as part of a larger area. But the 3rd adventure doesn't tie directly in to the town, as I recall. Still, he'd need to maintain his cover.

Sorry to be the voice of dissent, but I humbly and respectfully disagree. I think one of the crucial points to make the AP work is for the players and Sandpoint to have a close relationship, which is sort of hard with some evil worshippers in the party. It just seems there are too many very perceptive good NPCs in this game to let that sort of evil slide.

Obviously if your player is clever enough and chooses the right slant, you could play almost any evil deity worshipping character. That being said, I don't think this is the best campaign for some, just based on the disposition of the town and the allies in Varisia. Also, the adventures, being an early, very classic AP, sort of assume a certain leaning of the party. What Mikaze said about evil standards above is pretty key to making this work, regardless of what god you choose.

For instance, necromancy is bad, deities that directly oppose those in Sandpoint are bad.

It would be extremely difficult (IMO only) to imagine a priest of Ghlaunder, who is directly opposed by Desna and most of the general populace of Varisia, being well received in this AP. Add to that the early storyline of Book2 and the bad guys sort of remind you of this

The only evil god that really makes sense to me in this AP (as written of course) is Asmodeus, and only then because of the Hellknights based out of Magnimar. I think it would be awesome RP to have a Hellknight and a priest of Asmodeus in this group, with the goal of winning over the hearts and minds of Sandpoint to the point of establishing Hellknight presence there. The idea of the Mantis god isn't bad, but after the Late Unpleasantness and more current events, a bloodthirstly killer is the last the the town of Sandpoint is likely to want.

It just seems to be you are going to get a lot more goodwill and mileage out of worshipping one of the good gods in the story as opposed to those that are evil.

I really think the last three APs are much better suited to playing evil worshipping clerics, since you are creating a kingdom in one, you have somewhat free reign in the wilds of the jungle, or you are a freaking pirate. Who is gonna tell a pirate they are too evil? :)

EDIT: I sort of rambled here a bit, but the bottom line is you can make it work, it just takes a lot more effort. If you are playing by the original AP with the villians as written, you need all the help you can get, not to make things harder! :)

I'm actually having a lot of fun in my game with my players essentially cutting a deal with Lamashtu where they are (for the most part, involuntarily) serving her in exchange for her minions leaving Sandpoint in general, and them in particular, alone.

So it can certainly be done, if you are creative!

While I don't think there is a party friendly way to play a follower of Rovagug, the other evil deities may not be so hostile to group work. I know there are plot reasons to disallow followers of Lamashtu or Norgorber, but what about the rest?

I'd bet a follower of Asmodeus is definitely in the clear; is there any plot specific reason to disallow players to follow Urgathoa or Zon-Kuthon?

So, I'm running this AP in two different instances. While most of the PCs are good-aligned in both, the first instance (now on SoXS) had a Cleric of Zon Kuthon (who everyone thought was a Cleric of Irori) and now has an openly Undead Lord Cleric of Urgathoa. The second instance (now on FotSG) has an Infernal Bloodline Sorcerer who worships Asmodeus and used to have a CN Cleric of Lamashtu in Burnt Offerings (she was eaten by Mal). Here's how they all fit:

Leo, Cleric of Zon Kuthon--He actually was a cleric of Irori until the group left him in the dark for over a day in the pit trap right before Nualia (he was feared by the yeth hounds and ran away randomly into the trap, but when the party later got there, the rogue disarmed the trap and they never checked in the pit until they started wondering where in the Hells Leo was). A voice spoke to him in the darkness and he pledged his soul to Zon Kuthon. As mentioned in Gods and Magic and a few other places, Kuthites often disguise themselves as respectable members of society, and Leo became the Grand Vizier of Fort Rannick and is generally beloved by all. He has a secret shrine of ZK under the fort, so during the rains, he always prepped a Control Water in case his evil shrine flooded, thus allowing him to save the schoolchildren and win the love of the people of Turtleback Ferry.

Amica, Cleric of Urgathoa--She calls undead her friends and is actually pretty focused on the "That tyrant Pharasma doesn't get to tell people when they have to stop partying and living the good life" aspect of undeath. She risked a lot to try to "save" some of the controlled undead in Runeforge by breaking their commands from Kazaven and letting them go free outside the demiplane. She has a portable hole full of bloody skeletons and recently "Spot" her fast zombie white dragon. She's pretty loyal to her friends and no more a killer than most PCs, and the only time the party was at risk from her was when Karzoug had his agents kidnap her mother and try to get Amica to turn on them or leave the group (she is very close to her mother).

Can't Remember the Name, Cleric of Lamashtu--She had a fundamental theological dispute with Nualia--she believed that monsters, the children of Lamashtu, performing violence against human settlements will always lead to adventurers wiping out the monsters. Better to avoid instigating the humans and just keep outbreeding them--after all, most monstrous races are pretty fecund compared to the civilized races. That way, before long the world will be full of monsters. She challenged Nualia to fight for their respective beliefs in the way of the Mother. Whichever of them dies was wrong, and the winner could bear pride that her scars that day would always remind her that Lamashtu was on her side. Sadly, she died shortly thereafter due to being eaten by Mal.

Morvius Tavales, Infernal Sorcerer--Though a worshipper of Asmodeus, he is LN. He's a smug snake, with extremely high diplomacy, and an effective ruler of Fort Rannick. He believes in power and the enforcement of contracts, and is quite a womanizer. A real team player, he focuses on team buffs, controls, and counters to things like invisibility. His family owes a debt to an archduke that will only be fulfilled when they find the archduke a way to save his armies which were blasted to destruction by a rival (the Leng Device will do, not that he'll find that for a while).

Well, it turns out the point may well be moot... one of my players decided on a paladin. And while I suspect she won't use detect evil all the time, she's bound to detect any evil characters at some point.

Thanks again, though, for all the input.

Well, if the player is somewhat decent, then attempting to redeem the evil character, especially an evil cleric, would make for a lot of good RP. As long as the character can convert to neutral (or even LE), this should make for a lot of fun.
If you run that, I'd give the paladin player a heads up that she had a dream/vision from her deity that she should redeem the evil character and try to convert the character to another neutral or good deity that's a somewhat decent fit for the believes of the evil character.

Of course this requires a well thought out background for the evil cleric, but I'd require that for any evil character anyway. And for any chaotic one, for that matter.