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I am having more fun with how bad a sailor Ioney is than I am with how good he is at social things.
Though I have to say he's far better than I expected him to be.
Ioney, you have a permanent +3 bonus from the fact you use your little ditty to remove fatigue from the crew.
Heh. Okay. That pretty much cements my results, then. 3 of the 6 man thug crew friendly to me. Another few days, and I could have them all liking me!
My attitude system totals all points acquired by Day 16 and compares it to a scale to determine the new attitude towards the entire group.
Points acquired from each PC's attitude level:
Helpful – 5
Friendly – 3
Indifferent – 0
Unfriendly - -3
Hostile - -5
Points needed for each category:
Helpful – 15
Friendly – 10
Indifferent – 5
Unfriendly – 0
Hostile - -5
Enemy - -6 and below
After calculations, any crew member that was not helpful to at least one PC drops one category. In addition, if a crew member was helpful to at least one PC, the lowest their attitude can sink is to unfriendly.
[Example: two PCs get someone to Helpful (10 pts), one PC is unfreindly though (-3 pts) for a total of 7pts, which is less than the 10 needed for friendly, so the final attitude is indifferent. Since the crew member is helpful to at least one PC, their attitude doesn't drop to unfreindly.]
Question: since we can never be benefited, and only penalized, this means adjusted attitudes will either decrease, or stay the same. Is that it?
I am thinking perhaps there should be also some sort of reverse mechanism, say for example if a crew member is helpful to two of the PCs, and not hostile to any of the others, then he goes from Indifferent to Friendly overall?
Otherwise the new scale kinda looks like a flat decrease (or no change in the best case scenario) to attitudes.
Interesting. Means that the shotgun methods we have used will provide almost zero allies, though, and prove ineffective at reducing the opposition as well.
That's not a whine, just an observation. Whining would be more like:
"Dude! Not telling us about this mechanical change is going to break our fun factor and make us all as unhappy as a cat in a rocking chair factory!"
Which is not remotely what I'm saying nor how I'm saying it.
@ Helgash, not really, under the old system, ALL crew drop one category. Also, multiple people getting helpful does help by making the DCs of further influence checks easier, especially as the attitude is for the entire group now. I did play with an idea similar to yours, but then the hostiles would overwhelm any positive effect of the one or two helpfuls (thus the reason I made the max drop to unfriendly for crew with at least one helpful). Also, I wanted the attitude system to be hard because every time I've played this before the PCs easily get almost the entire crew to be helpful by this point.
@ Ioney, the shotgun method works well because you guarantee that any crew member can, at worse, be only unfriendly. and since you will almost always have a +5 modifier to youir Diplomacy, that is a big aid for you. In fact, I just looked and you have a +13 Diplomacy. With the +5 you can't miss the DC23 influence check for unfriendly by 5 or more, so it's impossible for you to make their attitude worse.
@ Onnello, if you get the Sense Motive bonus, it can be used by the person you are aiding (because you can tell them what you discrened).
One more point, I just went over the history of influence checks by you and every influencable NPC has had their +2 bonus determined by at least one of you, so everyone gets the +2 bonus from now on to influence, no more need for those rolls.
Wow, a big flurry of posting!
Looking at the list, I think we should let Ioney pick the harder subjects (unfriendly and indifferent) and those of us with a decent Intimidate can work on the low hanging fruit (friendly). After all the friendlies are made helpful, then we can work on any indifferents that Ioney hasn't got to yet. What do you all think?
It just feels weird to influence the same person again, after you (and several others) have rolled for it more than once.
To be bluntly honest, it is starting to grind a bit on me now - we have just finished a massive (very non-immersive since there was almost no roleplay) batch of rolls for influencing NPCs. And now... We are going to do it again :P
It just feels weird to influence the same person again, after you (and several others) have rolled for it more than once.
To be bluntly honest, it is starting to grind a bit on me now - we have just finished a massive (very non-immersive since there was almost no roleplay) batch of rolls for influencing NPCs. And now... We are going to do it again :P
Not at all, from this point on, since it is only a single roll and person, I would prefer you to actually talk to them. It will give me a way to let you know why this is happening and what other people are doing to counter your influence, as well as giving you a better sense of what each individual crew member is really like. Plus there are going to be things happening now that are much differnt than the previous non-immersive grind.
Really shouldn't be responding at work, my phone or not, but . . ..
I've tried to show that the big block of mechanics can be personalized and turned into a chance to add a little RP flavor. Yes it is more work, but it is also the best way to create some positive entertainment for at least yourself out of what is otherwise just dice chuckin'.
I rarely enjoy just chuckin' dice.
I managed to have some fun with the boarding effort anyway.
Yes Ioney, I have done the same - if you look at my Influence posts, you will see initially I would roleplay every single one of them (as well as the daily tasks, and everything else), however most of the time there would be no reply or acknowledgment from the NPCs. So I stopped doing it.
Also, for me it feels strange to ‘reset’ NPC attitudes toward us just ‘because’ - there could have been a roleplay event, something to push our rep down, heck I would gladly take a lashing from Scourge to show the crew we are not good people to ‘associate’ with.
This way it feels like I keep needing to reinvent myself, and the ways I address the same NPCs over and over again. I know you can look at it in many different ways, I am just sharing mine.
Anyway, I’ve said my piece, no point in dragging the debate further I guess. Game on!
Hm. It does seem like a penalty. But then, thereis one in the RAW ap as well where everybody beyond a treeshold drops one rank.
Alas, the limits you used are...harsh.
I mean, if someone was helpful to 2 people before(+10), indifferent to on(0) and remained on starting attitude of unfriendly for 2(-6) then he defaults back to unfriendly as the total of +4 does not break indifferent.
On the other hand helpful to 2(+10), friendly to one(+3), inddiferent to one and unfriendly to one, he'd skip right past indifferent and be friendly.
I think I would mind less if this was timed with the incoming level-up, which could give us some new options(such as finally getting intimidate up and running instead of depending purely on luck of the dice).
Don't get me wrong, I generally do think your system is decent and the vanilla variant is too simple if people focus on it(and you gave some people generous boni), so it's all good.
Still feels like a "surprise penalty system" which is hardly ever welcome.
But as you pointed out, between the overly-powered build I provided and the boons he has provided, given time we could convert the gross majority of the crew. Not sure how long we'll actually get, of course.
I really underestimated how powerfully social this build is.
I figure that will be more useful once we start trying to sell loot than it is now.
Seeing both are blinded, Nivian would hold her action, fearing more enemies to appear.
That said, is it only Syl and Maheem we see there?
Because according to the crew overview, Syl is "friendly" to us and Maheem "unfriendly" - neither of those are hostile or flat out enemies.(like Tate, Japs or Chumlett).
It just seems weird/suspicious that only those two would be involved - I could see a larger group pushing someone forward that has a decent relation to lure us into a trap.
But then I'd expect the architects of said trap to make an appearance, or keep tabs on the situation - if only to make sure she goes through with it, seeing how Syl is friendly with us...
(I think it's a relatively big deal, because if those two DID work alone, then that means nobody on the ship outside our core group is safe. Someone helpful could also be pushed to e.g. poison us, and comply rather than disobey and warn us...)
And If they did NOT work alone, then there's more enemies around likely to reveal themselves shortly, which will make it hard to fight non-lethally.
(Which I think we should try to do, if it's an option. Not because Nivian has qualms about murdering them on the spot, but because the captain may be ill-mannered about his small crew growing smaller still.
Those two were never friendly or helpful. They bluffed Ioney (he failed both sense motives, I thought Maheem would blow it).
Because of the Captain's attention to Ioney, Scourge's core group is handicapped in getting rid of him. As for others, it was obvious that the rest of the crew was in the hold area sleeping, I will consider it given that each of you quickly looked around on your way out to see if anyone wasn't there. It appears that, of the regular crew, only Syl and Maheem are missing from their hammocks.
And, for the record, I was choosing to attempt trust, just like Ioney said.
If you never trust, you can never establish positive relationships.
But choosing trust can HURT. I just got lucky on those saves.
Stepping away from Maheem, Ioney pulls his sap before striking out at Syl.
Ioney lands a solid blow on Maheem.
1) I checked Blinded, and saw the -2 listed as an AC penalty, so I didn't claim a bonus. Easy enough to use it as a bonus instead. Just need to know when to claim it. <grin>
2) Stepped away from Maheem, struck out at Syl, and hit Maheem? Or did I get the icons backwards? Making the icon position not match the text. I could do that easily enough.
2) Stepped away from Maheem, struck out at Syl, and hit Maheem? Or did I get the icons backwards? Making the icon position not match the text. I could do that easily enough.
No, my mistake, I somehow thought you said Maheem.
Those two were never friendly or helpful. They bluffed Ioney (he failed both sense motives, I thought Maheem would blow it).
Because of the Captain's attention to Ioney, Scourge's core group is handicapped in getting rid of him. As for others, it was obvious that the rest of the crew was in the hold area sleeping, I will consider it given that each of you quickly looked around on your way out to see if anyone wasn't there. It appears that, of the regular crew, only Syl and Maheem are missing from their hammocks.
Ah, good to know, so it's the information table that is unreliable :)
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The current information table is now reliable. The Ioney situation isn't actually part of the AP, nor this fight, the opportuniy just popped up because of the Party's interactions and I went with it. :)
And I'm good with it! Plays out better in my head to have her string nw along for a backstabbing
And what about Owlbear's attitude? Has it also shifted?
And what about Owlbear's attitude? Has it also shifted?
You have no real way of telling as he doesn't get much chance to interact with you...
Huh, you have scourge using a cutlass?Don't you do it Helgash, don't you do it...
No, he is using a handaxe, he also has a whip and a punchiing dagger. He can kill a mutinous crew member with no repercussions.
I tried to make it clear that attacking ship's officers is suicidal. Harrington is 16th level.
Huh, you have scourge using a cutlass?Don't you do it Helgash, don't you do it...
Done!
Huh, a cutlass crits at 18, but a hand axe doesn't, or is the excessive damage something else?No, he is using a handaxe...
1d20 + 5 ⇒ (18) + 5 = 23
damage: 2d6 + 4 ⇒ (3, 3) + 4 = 10
He beat you to the punch, so he got his 1d6 of dneak attack.
So 1d6 weapon, 1d6 sneak, and + 4 more damage? So Scourge has a str of 18 or the weapon is magical?
Also, we we're in combat, they dropped syl and Maheem, Scourge came out, timing wise this is the next round, calling the party flat footed is really tickytack.
In my mind it's just round three and Scourge is joining the already running fight.
1d6 weapon, 1d6 SA, +2 STR, +2 PA. I did mess up, his to hit should have been +6, not+5, because I originally had done his PA as if his BAB was +4, not +3. I corrected the damage but not the hit (it didn't matter).
As for being flat footed, combat stopped, Scourge came out, had dialogue, then went over to check the bodies. It was not supposed to be another combat. I see now that this is an issue with PbP, I have to be more clear in my descriptions.
Again, you weren't in combat, the time between you dropping the two crew and Scourge approaching the bodies was at least half a minute. However, even without the 3 damage, his next hit will drop you. And next round he will get to use his whip as well. This first strike was more of a warning.
We can let the attack stand. It slightly changes the storyline, but I can work with it. Or you can press the attack. I'm sure that if you do, the others will try and finish him off quick, but that means even worse repercussions as trying to mutiny at this point would be absolute suicide.
I am confused, I though my actions happened first? Which means Onnello can opt not to attack Scourge, right? Or wrong? :P
Scourge, seeing Onnello spring to attack, preempts him (unless any of the others restrain Onnello? I'll roll everyone elses initiative just in case).
This. Did my actions not stop Onnello? Not restrain I know, but distract perhaps?
Also I thought Scourge meant to attack Onnello only if he attacked him - or did I misunderstand? Not 100% sure what preempting means in this specific situation.
Lol, I just admitted I need to be more clear and then make an ambiguous post, sorry.
Ok, three options:
1) Onnello can decide to not make his first attack after Helgash punches him. In which case, things remain relatively light.
2) Onnello can get get the satisfaction of laying a lick on Scourge, but then drop his sap and back down. Stiffer punishment, but you get a free hit on Scourge.
3) No backing down and then everyone will go in initiative order and decide what they choose to do. Could be very bad, but maybe not...
Also I thought Scourge meant to attack Onnello only if he attacked him - or did I misunderstand? Not 100% sure what preempting means in this specific situation.
Scourge has a lot of experience dealing with press ganged pirate crews. He is always extra wary in situations like this, so when someone announces an attack against him, we go straight to initiative. In this case he beat Onnello in initiative.
Not a free shot, but I believe this may be a replacement for a similar event in the bilges, in the AP raw.
For what it's worth, I do like this version better, Trevor - it makes more sense in the game flow and is less hit&miss.
But the basic intent(=>outcome) is probably similar.
Not a free shot, but I believe this may be a replacement for a similar event in the bilges, in the AP raw.
For what it's worth, I do like this version better, Trevor - it makes more sense in the game flow and is less hit&miss.
But the basic intent(=>outcome) is probably similar.
T was thinking the same thing. It's amazing how a fluke idea with Ioney is actually making a better result.
Good stories are organic, and honest efforts to work with who the characters are instead of just what the script says usually provides far more rewarding results.
But I gotta admit, I'm waiting to see how this attempted suicide plays out.
I am currently a bit unsure about what Onello is going for here?
He can swim, but we are on high sea and the ship is moving.
That, and we knocked them out, nobody was killed, so even if scourge would love a keelhauling the captain would probably not have approved of that.
(Plus that casts doubt on the whole story - if we WERE going to jump and kill them we would not have used nonlethal means to subdue them. Of course, Onellos jumping overboard could be seen as confession of guilt just as well-)
I'll gladly jump in after him but I'd like to understand the plan.