If you're relying on the "Lift and Drag" carrying capacity rules, you're dragging no more than 5' per round. It's not implied in any way that you can drag a weight as much as 5 times your max load the same distance as you can walk in a round.
The alternative method is to use the Drag combat manoeuvre. This moves you and your target 5' plus an additional 5' for every 5 points you exceed the target's CMD. (An unconscious character is both prone and effectively DEX = 0, so their CMD is pretty low).
The advantage of the carrying capacity rule is that there is no general limitation on the size of the load, whereas you can only use the Drag manoeuvre on a target up to one size larger than yourself.
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It was the drag rule in the Carrying Capacity rules here rather than 'lift and drag'. Marik would not be strong enough to lift Ash as the rules for lifting say that the maximum you can lift is double your maximum load, so he would have been reliant on the rules for dragging without lifting, i.e.:
A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them by half or more.
Unfortunately, this doesn't provide any detail about impact on movement speed, AC, Dex, or damage to the dragged object etc... unlike the rules in the earlier paragraphs relating to lifting. It certainly doesn't seem realistic that you could drag such a weight at normal walking pace, but there is nothing in the rules (as far as I can find), outside of combat maneuvers, which outlines what would be a reasonable pace, hence my question. I guess the quoted text may just be intended to handle dragging outside of combat, with combat maneuvers used for any dragging during combat situations where time and speed are a bit more critical.
As you say the drag maneuver is also an option. Would I be correct in thinking that would allow Marik to drag Ash 4 squares as Ash normally has a CMD of 16, with 14 Dex so with 0 Dex that would be a CMD of 9? Marik has a CMB of 5 and combat maneuvers are considered to always roll 20 vs unconscious opponents:
If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll).
So that would total to 25 and beat Ash's CMD by 16 i.e. a total drag of 20 foot, which I think is enough to break line of sight if the allip just stays in the far north of the big room?
Given that the Drag combat manoeuvre is part of the rules, and you are in combat, I can't allow any possible reading of the Carrying Capacity rules to be functionally superior. The Drag manoeuvre is the appropriate rule in this situation.
Ash's adjusted CMD would appear to by 9, yes. So it's possible to Drag him 20 feet as you've calculated Marik.
Myth is certainly free to choose not to use the misfortune roll. I'll ask everyone to follow Xiao's own advice for using this ability, which he posted early on in the game and is also in his character profile:
To my fellow players: In a PbP format, I will use this ability but if you want to you each can decide for yourselves if you want to use the ability and just be sure that someone else hasn't already used my immediate action previously that round.
So far only Xiao and Riddywhipple have used a misfortune roll.
Move (Selune): return to Mun with arrow
Move (Mun): grab arrow from Selune
Standard (Mun; move-equivalent): look for final arrow
Free (Mun): Handle Animal (fetch) DC 12, link: 1 + 7 + 4 = 12
Standard (Selune; move-equivalent): move to final arrow
Normal action economy rules don't permit this, but it was a non-issue on this occasion. The only way to split actions between a PC and Companion critter is to use the Ready action, and that will generally mean that the PC is the one using Ready given the limited trigger criteria that an animal companion can understand. (Familiars typically can understand and use more complex conditions).
How that would work in this example:
Mun (acting right before Selune): Move action to spot final arrow; standard to Ready a Move to take an arrow when Selune brings it back; Cannot take a new Free action with the Readied move-equivalent.
Selune: Move to return to Mun with arrow.
Alternatively:
Mun: Move action to spot the final arrow. Standard to Ready a Handle Animal (Fetch) command when Selune returns. (Though the Fetch command is a Free action, Readying it is still a Standard).
Selune: Move to return with the first arrow and drop it at Mun's feet. Move to go to the next arrow.
I have had to get used to this, having two Hunter PCs myself who both coordinate attacks with their companions.
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Xiao junior will stabilize Ash and Derpi but will not heal them as he does not know how long they are confused.
Derpi had confusion removed so should definitely be safe to heal. As Confusion is rounds per level Ash shouldn’t be confused to much longer. Other than that Ash is unconscious but stable and everyone else is still up, with most of us having taken a bunch of damage (It looks like Derpi is the most injured of the non-confused party members).
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As Derpi made the DC to identify Confusion when it was first cast I assume she’d be able to advise the party on the rough length of time it lasts (i.e. rounds per level)? The allip cast it in the 3rd round and the fight ended on the allip’s go in the 10th round, so if I’m correct, 9 round have passed since the confusion was cast. So we may want to wait another round or two until we wake up Ash, just to be on the safe side. But we definitely do want to wake him up before we move on, as poor Ash has already had to spend most of the last fight unable to do much due to confusion, so it would be good if we could get him back up as soon as is safe.
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FYI, it sounds like that weapon has the potential to harm Mun. In addition to being CN instead of CG due to a curse, Mun has an evil item in his possession (the ioun stone that cursed him and changed his alignement), and an evil tattoo on his flesh. The suit is his #1 priority just for survival reasons.
Happy to help get Ash up once Mun is suited up, though!
The suits can be "donned hastily" in one round, but take 2-3 rounds to put on properly.
Derpi knows how long Confusion lasts.
I'll update gameplay tomorrow (Friday).
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I'm heading out today for a weekend trip; I likely won't be able to post again until Monday. Feel free to bot me as you need!
Mun's priority will be a proper donning of his suit, then he can switch back to healing. If combat is pressing, all oracles have the cure spell at each spell level; he can use those on Ash and Selune instead of his wand if he needs to get the healing done quickly.
Sure thing Marik. Let's say Ash has it, since Derpi does have her OP wand of celestial healing :D
Gameday officially ends on Nov 20, so I will need to get reporting done by then even if we're not quite finished.
This is also time to roll for boons :)
Please roll 1d20. If you get a 19 or 20 also roll 1d3, and pm me your email address so that our VOs can send you your boon.
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I guess the question now is do we want to open the second door now, or spend this round doing some final healing and all getting in position to burst through the door in a coordinated manner next round? Both Ash and Derpi are on just over 20 hit points each so not sure if they may want an opportunity for another round of healing wands and for Ash to use that healing potion he picked up?
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As we're likely to be opening the second door imminently I guess we should work out who has each of the prisms. Derpi and Mun took the two on the corpse (one full and the other empty). The remaining three are all full. Marik picked up the one in the previous room and the other two Xiao and Mun both had at various times, although I guess all three could have potentially been passed to other people prior to us entering this room. I think having them carried by a number of people probably makes sense so we're not putting all of our eggs in one basket (or prisms on one pathfinder).
Yup.
Basically I need the group's decision: open the door now, or spend another round healing/prepping.
So here's where I think the prisms are:
Derpi, 1
Mun, 1 (empty)
Xiao, 1
Ash, 1
Marik, 1
If that sounds right to everyone, we'll open the door!
Alas healing spells do not suffice to charge the prisms - here's a recap:
A PC can recharge a prism in several ways. The prism absorbs spells with the good descriptor cast directly at it, regaining a number of charges equal to the spell’s level. When affected by a channel energy effect augmented by the Alignment Channel feat to harm evil outsiders or heal good outsiders, a prism regains a number of charges equal to the number of dice the PC would roll for the effect. Finally, a good-aligned creature can grasp a prism and concentrate as a full-round action to restore 1d4 charges, though doing so also gives the PC 1 temporary negative level for 24 hours.
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Oh, Mun's actually the worst recharger. He should switch with somebody!
He'll likely cast prayer first thing, so staying in the back is the right play for him. Could he swap prism's with someone as they pass him with a move action (i.e. move action from Mun to grab the other prism, move action from the other person to grab the empty from Mun?
Swapping prisms with a move action each is fine by me.
Gameplay post incoming!
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Hi GM, regarding the monster identification: totally fine and he will reroll when he can see the monster.
I’m just not sure if the ruling that speech is impossible during a bardic performance is correct.
Also a full round spell would require verbal components and it’s still possible to speak as a free action.
Okay; I've been thinking this over and rephrased myself better on a similar thread... but basically, here's the trick.
Bardic performance does NOT require you to use a Perform skill that you have ranks in. It doesn't even need a Perform skill at all. Not only is Perform usable untrained, but the bardic performance ability does not require you to make Perform checks of any kind except for a few specific TYPES of bardic performance, such as countersong or distraction.
This means that when you inspire courage, you're not necessarily doing so by playing the flute or banging drums. It's more likely that you're singing or bragging or taunting or dancing or otherwise just showboating to raise your allies' morale. If you WANT to say that your bardic performance is from a particularly rousing violin solo, that's fine... but once it's started you don't have to keep playing the violin if you want to put the violin down and fight or spellcast or whatever because the actual Perform (strings) skill doesn't ever enter the picture.
What do you think?
Thanks
I disagree with JJ (who, as he has often pointed out himself, is not a rules person).
It's true that Bardic Performance doesn't require ranks in Perform. However, this is the first sentence under the Bardic Performance class feature: "A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired".
The rules text clearly describes starting and maintaining Performances. As I noted in our pm discussion prior to the scenario's start, maintaining means continuing with a thing. JJ's argument to the contrary is nonsensical.
Most importantly, this is about verisimilitude. A Bard performs. That's how he does what he does. Certain magical items like the Three Reasons to Live, or the old Bardic College instruments, provide powerful magical effects when played, not hit or tooted once. The intent is perfectly clear.
Re: speaking, I'm not going to say that you can't talk at all whilst performing with a wind instrument just to bear in mind that if you are playing a wind instrument the number of words that you can also speak in 6 seconds is going to be very limited. Same reasoning as I gave for it affecting Language-Dependent spellcasting.
Three Reasons to Live is a very powerful item, especially at its low gold cost. But, like other magical musical instruments, its power is activated by playing it - and it's a wind instrument.
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He moves to the device , then drops the flag , and then he takes out the prism .
Just to check, is Xiao hoping to load the prism into the weapon from there? I ask because, I believe the spirit told us that the loading slots were in the console on the platform which the small green demon is currently smashing up, rather than in the weapon itself, so thought I’d better check.
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Yeah. Derpi has Dimension Door or I could drop a rope after I fly up there. We should probably avoid the ramp if we can as it looks long and dangerous (due to the massive demon which is currently standing where part of it used to be!). But before we go up there we will need to get rid of the green demon somehow (Either kill it or use spells to disable it or make it go away, e.g. fear, suggestion etc…), so it won’t interfere with us activating the weapon.
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I think before Dimension Door we'd probably want to neutralize the green demon as a threat as the platform is not very big and anyone who got teleported up there would either be in melee range with the green demon or in reach of the really big demon which I assume most of our spellcasters would not be very comfortable with (although the green demon is prone at the moment so at -4 to attacks). It is also smashing up things on the platform which is something which I suspect we want to stop it from doing as well.
If I understand correctly the green demon currently can be targeted by ranged attacks and spells from the ground. Against ranged attacks it would get +8 to AC due to having cover and being prone, but it can be targeted with spells just fine, without any issue, from the ground.
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Mun isn't really an offensive-spell build; he's built around buffing Selune and sending her in. To that end, I've just done that with an air-walk spell; the green demon should at least be engaged moving forward, though I doubt Selune will be very good against the DR that it likely has. With her mirror images, she at least should be equally hard to hit, so should occupy its attention well.