OSR Greyhawk Adventures -- Dungeon Mag. and others (PF1e w/ Houserules)

Game Master Sebecloki

I was looking at the first scenario I want to use 'Ever-Changing Fortunes' from Dragon 85, and I realized the greyhawk setting was only a suggestion in an 'adapting the campaign sidebar' -- it suggested Furyondy, but another one of the adventures is in the Duchy of Urnst, so I think I'm going to move it to Leukish as the starting city and the Abbor-Alz as the location of the first dungeon crawl.

What I'd like after we get the characters made up is to pretend like the heroes have already been associated in an adventuring band for a while and have you generate some previous adventures, foes I can work into story lines, and dead companions and henchmen who might come up in conversation.

Try to tie your stories into the Duchy of Urnst/Central Flanaess region, as well as particularly the City of Leukish, which is the capital of the Duchy -- Leukish has a strong Suel cultural sub-stratum, and I'm going to draw on some material from Frog God's Blight and Caer Maga, city of strangers, and refluff them try to flesh out it's depiction. I also imagine the Suel history of the city as trying in with a prospective expedition to the Sea of Dust, such as by a noble family of the city hiring the PCs to investigate something about their heritage in the region.

So check this out: a totemic/red tongue skald vmc cleric who is Shape changed into a tiger and buffing the group with raging song for +4 dex, +4 str, and +4 Con morale bonus and the vmc will be evangelist which will also give me +1 competence bonus to hit and damage and since I can channel I can take guided hand and channel smite and go Ragathiel for nobility as my domain so that Everytime I cast a divine spell which I can grab as a cantrip with a trait I can give my group a supernatural +2 to any roll for the round...

Here is Smiles-a-lot’s submission a Magus (Kensi/Runic knight) VMC rogue trying to get that Fighter/magic user/ thief vibe. He wields an elven branched spear and in addition to damage out put (he is not a crit fisher) he will focus on battlefield control with reach tactics, frostbite/Rime spell/enforcer, and lancer sphere.

Since this is my first time using SoM & PoW please let me know of any glaring mistakes or pitfalls.

Also, I am still working on his fluff but I wanted to get this in just in case I needed to make any changes.

OK -- here are some additional details for fluff concepts I want from the party

You all need to come up with a name for your adventuring band. This band has only 1 original member, who you need to pick amongst yourselves.

The rest of the members have been a revolving cast of heroes and their henchmen since 1st level. All the non-original members needs to come up with at least 3 predecessors to their role in the party, and a hilarious and horrible way they met their end. For example Stanethiel the Bold was a previous Valley Elf Oracle who was bitten in half by a ravenous landshark during the group's ill-fated exploration of the Hidden Grotto of Thrakk-Molgosh.

I also want the party to come up with 3 major foes that still live that they've faced in the past.

Sounds like fun. As far as timeline goes is it pre or post Greyhawk Wars?

post Greyhawk wars -- that's the fluff I have access to since I bought the late 2nd ed splatbooks.

Sounds good. Also, I’m not sure if you want us to wait until we are selected to start throwing out ideas but I’ll start anyway :)

Adventuring Company Names
Band of the Open Hand
Order of the Seven Shields
Companions of Celadon
Adventures of Abbor-Alz
The Nine Companions

I just posted the maps for the first scenario in a spoiler on the campaign page if you're interested.

I'm going to rip out the encounters and layout of the Dungeon Magazine scenario but try to 'level up' the mapping. You'll see that there are a large number of areas -- like an OSR style, you're not necessarily expected to explore everything.

Like a large number of Dungeon Magazine scenarios, the mines in this adventure are pretty much linear -- which is pretty boring. I'm trying to upgrade to a more sandbox, open layout.

Sounds good. Also, I’m not sure if you want us to wait until we are selected to start throwing out ideas but I’ll start anyway :)

Adventuring Company Names
Band of the Open Hand
Order of the Seven Shields
Companions of Celadon
Adventures of Abbor-Alz
The Nine Companions

It doesn't look like we'll have too many people at this point, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Okay, I've provided a regional map of the area in the Duchy of Urnst where our scenario occurs.

The player's should have ties to Leukish, the capital of the Duchy, but the scenario opens in a small town known as V'run on the edge of the Mist Lake in the Mistmarsh.

This settlement is surrounded by a magical barrier, a remnant of ancient Sueloise magics established to protect this frontier settlement during the exodus from the old empire have the Reign of Colorless Fire.

Despite being a small settlement, it is inhabited by several old Sueloise families with ties to Leukish and the old empire, as well as considerable magical ability for so small a population in so isolated a locale.

Sebecloki: Would I be able to trade out the Primal Fury discipline for the Silver Crane discipline?

I'm envisioning a privateer who left his life on the ocean to adventure with comrades.

Edelsmirge: We might make quite the complementary buffers for a a team. I'm looking at boosting flanking and the like.

Sebecloki: Would I be able to trade out the Primal Fury discipline for the Silver Crane discipline?

I'm envisioning a privateer who left his life on the ocean to adventure with comrades.

Edelsmirge: We might make quite the complementary buffers for a a team. I'm looking at boosting flanking and the like.

Sebecloki: Would I be able to trade out the Primal Fury discipline for the Silver Crane discipline?

I'm envisioning a privateer who left his life on the ocean to adventure with comrades.

Edelsmirge: We might make quite the complementary buffers for a a team. I'm looking at boosting flanking and the like.

That's fine.

The Savage Coast and Nyr Dyv would be great nearby areas for swashbuckling history

Maybe a previous expedition of this group, and perhaps the most fatal, were three consecutive trips to the Isles of Woe to recover the Codex of Infinite Planes, and where three sets of new participants perished on successive missions -- absolutely everyone and their familiars, cohort etc. perishing in horrible respects except for the aforementioned lone original member, who somehow survived.

One of the players could also be a reincarnation of a previous party member!

So as an update, I've got the mechanics for a dagger throwing Bard/Archaeologist/Kung Fu Exemplar/Rubato worked out (and I'm pretty happy with them,) but looking at the characters being proposed I see that we're kind of short on Divine anything, so I might spend a bit of time looking to see what I could do with a Warpriest instead to cover that gap in coverage. I'll see what I can figure something that seems as interesting to me over the next couple days as we don't seem to be almost done with this process just yet.

Regarding Edelsmirge's proposal, at least a couple issues stick out to me. VMC doesn't normally allow for archetypes to modify the class abilities being added (though this game could easily be an exception to that sort of restriction,) and unless you've got something allowing it you usually can't have two performance abilities (like raging song and the Evangelist Sermonic Performance) going at the same time. If you do VMC Evangelist Cleric you wouldn't actually have channel until level 9, so you don't actually have that class feature until then and couldn't take guided hand and channel smite until then.

So from set 2 (the set one rolled here) it's 8 6s, 4 5s, 4 4s, 2 3s

So 18, 18, 16, 16, 12, 10 or some such.

If a "free" archetype gives the option to replace an option, are we allowed to take it without replacing the option? This will help me design my character.

The character started as a boatswain and worked his way up to first mate on a privateer ship. After the horrors faced on the Isles of Woe, he has chosen to depart, both intentionally and unintentionally, from his time on the sea. Few wish to trust someone who has lost their "entire" crew (Insert potential for a reincarnated comrade) multiple times. Thusly the adventuring life came to pass.

I may do some research into the Isles of Woes to help implement it into the character's backstory better.

I am exploring using rogue vmc magus, with the eldritch scoundrel archetype, as the base class for my f/m/t build. The magus vmc rogue just doesn’t have as many skills as I would like so I’m going to see what it will look like built this way.

Also, I should have the fluff done this weekend.

@Sebecloki, if I have Versatile Performance or the like which lets me use the bonuses in one skill in place for the bonuses in another can I use the ranks in the first skill to satisfy rank requirements for feats, skill unlocks and the like?

At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill’s bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill.

For example, suppose I have Versatile Perform (Dance) which lets me use dance for at least Acrobatics and Fly. Suppose I don't have any ranks in Acrobatics.

Would the ranks in Perform (Dance) give me the skill unlocks in Acrobatics?

Would the ranks in Perform (Dance) let me gain the Dodge benefits for fighting defensively (if you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2)?

@Sebecloki, if I have Versatile Performance or the like which lets me use the bonuses in one skill in place for the bonuses in another can I use the ranks in the first skill to satisfy rank requirements for feats, skill unlocks and the like?

Versatile Performance wrote:

At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill’s bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill.

For example, suppose I have Versatile Perform (Dance) which lets me use dance for at least Acrobatics and Fly. Suppose I don't have any ranks in Acrobatics.

Would the ranks in Perform (Dance) give me the skill unlocks in Acrobatics?

Would the ranks in Perform (Dance) let me gain the Dodge benefits for fighting defensively (if you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2)?

sure

If a "free" archetype gives the option to replace an option, are we allowed to take it without replacing the option? This will help me design my character.

The character started as a boatswain and worked his way up to first mate on a privateer ship. After the horrors faced on the Isles of Woe, he has chosen to depart, both intentionally and unintentionally, from his time on the sea. Few wish to trust someone who has lost their "entire" crew (Insert potential for a reincarnated comrade) multiple times. Thusly the adventuring life came to pass.

I may do some research into the Isles of Woes to help implement it into the character's backstory better.

What is an example of that, I don't think I've seen that. Are you talking about a case like vivesectionist replaces (I think) bombs with sneak attack, and deciding not to take sneak attack?

Would there possibly be room for one more? I've got an idea for a very unique hand to hand character using golemfist magnus and possibly constructed puglist with VMC oracle.

Build a Character: 24d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 2, 6, 1, 3, 3, 6, 2, 6, 3, 4, 4, 1, 5, 1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 2, 3, 1, 4) = 74

Build a Character: 5d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 5, 3, 4) = 16

In this case I’m inquiring in regards to Nature’s Blade’s Nature’s Allies ability which modifies Hunter’s Bond.

But give me an example of how this works -- you want to refuse an archetype ability? I'm not clear exactly what you're asking.

I think the question is can The Lucky Halfling take the benefit of forgoing the class feature from the archetype (in that example getting the spheres instead of Hunter's Bond,) and also get normal benefit from the class (in this case also keep Hunter's Bond from the main Ranger class.) I assume the answer is yes.

if that's the question, then yes.

ok...gonna run some choices of feats and traits by you...just wanna make sure they're all kosher...

looks good

Kung Fu Exemplar gets Signature Skill (the Skill Unlock Feat) for a single skill at level 5. For this campaign (as we already have that,) is there anything that would make sense to replace it? A single talent or feat? A particular talent or feat that you can think of? Some skill ranks? Just let it go as it's only the one feat that's getting wasted and not a huge deal?

Thanks Zorblag. That is what I meant. I was not sure how replace options worked for free archetypes and did not want to design around something I did not understand. I've been working on consolidating the build mechanics into a document and that knowledge will help me better understand the choices I am making.

I hear you; the build that I've got is (like any combining base pathfinder, Spheres and Paths of War) mechanically complex. Generating that document is taking some time. But it's also been fun learning new things along the way, so time well spent!

The Path of War reminds me of the Book of Nine Swords from D&D 3.5, so there is some knowledge of that. Otherwise Spheres has always felt like it comes with quite a learning curve when I've looked at it. I feel like there are a couple of things that could be better referenced in the sources I've seen it through.

It's definitely interesting seeing them all play together though. I'm hoping for some flanking buddies.

I cannot say I'm overly fond of Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain abilities, but there is no good option for replacing them that I am finding. With that in mind, I'm going to go ahead with the following to fit his ex-privateer lifestyle:

• Favored Enemy Humanoid (aquatic) +4
  
• Favored Enemy Humanoid (human) +2
  
• Favored Terrain Water +4
  
• Favored Terrain Urban +2

They will help explain his ability to have survived his ordeal in the Isles of Woe.

Kung Fu Exemplar gets Signature Skill (the Skill Unlock Feat) for a single skill at level 5. For this campaign (as we already have that,) is there anything that would make sense to replace it? A single talent or feat? A particular talent or feat that you can think of? Some skill ranks? Just let it go as it's only the one feat that's getting wasted and not a huge deal?

Just suggest something you think is fair.

Still plodding along on f/m/t rebuild. I’m definitely abandoning magus as the foundation and going with Unchained Rogue vmc magus with Eldritch Scoundrel as the free archetype. In addition to the PoW and SoM free archetypes I’m taking the scout and thug archetypes with the trap finder campaign trait.

So, like others my SoM archetype gives me finesse fighting talent (1rank) (see below) this sort of redundant on the unchained rogue. As it gets weapon finesse for from its class (and by feat tax too). Can I trade this out for another equipment talent?

You also mentioned an additional benefit for unchained rogues as everyone will have skill unlocks. I think making them an expert practitioner [SoM] would be a good solution. There is already an unchained rogue archetype that does this Link here. Thoughts?

Finesse Fighting
You may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier when calculating your melee attack rolls with light weapons and weapons with the finesse weapon special feature. You may take this talent a total of two times. If taken a second time, whenever you make an attack using your Dexterity bonus on attack rolls and your Strength bonus on melee damage rolls, you may also add 1/2 your base attack bonus (minimum 1) as a bonus on that damage roll. Associated Feat: Weapon Finesse.

Still plodding along on f/m/t rebuild. I’m definitely abandoning magus as the foundation and going with Unchained Rogue vmc magus with Eldritch Scoundrel as the free archetype. In addition to the PoW and SoM free archetypes I’m taking the scout and thug archetypes with the trap finder campaign trait.

So, like others my SoM archetype gives me finesse fighting talent (1rank) (see below) this sort of redundant on the unchained rogue. As it gets weapon finesse for from its class (and by feat tax too). Can I trade this out for another equipment talent?

You also mentioned an additional benefit for unchained rogues as everyone will have skill unlocks. I think making them an expert practitioner [SoM] would be a good solution. There is already an unchained rogue archetype that does this Link here. Thoughts?

Finesse Fighting
You may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier when calculating your melee attack rolls with light weapons and weapons with the finesse weapon special feature. You may take this talent a total of two times. If taken a second time, whenever you make an attack using your Dexterity bonus on attack rolls and your Strength bonus on melee damage rolls, you may also add 1/2 your base attack bonus (minimum 1) as a bonus on that damage roll. Associated Feat: Weapon Finesse.

Everything sounds good

Zorblag wrote:

Kung Fu Exemplar gets Signature Skill (the Skill Unlock Feat) for a single skill at level 5. For this campaign (as we already have that,) is there anything that would make sense to replace it? A single talent or feat? A particular talent or feat that you can think of? Some skill ranks? Just let it go as it's only the one feat that's getting wasted and not a huge deal?

Just suggest something you think is fair.

Hmm, perhaps a general (non-combat) feat then if that sounds reasonable to you.

I was messing around with my own magus, then abandoned it when I saw Arrandel as he looked similar but probably tougher in a fight. Brando's no better himself but a bit better at sharing aid around. Yes, I know Arrandel's taking another tack now. Anyway, basic stats for a dandy ranger instead here:

Also how many HP would an animal companion get? Twice Con at L1 + max at L2+, or something else?

I did read and own the 2e Greyhawk stuff and Dragon magazine material, but I'm no sage and I am going to homebrew some stuff as well in my Greyhawk, so don't worry about cannon too much.

I think the Suel were basically Thassilon before there was a Thassilon, and I'm going to base the depiction of Leukish partly on Kaer Maga and some other sources. Think melnibone and quarmall from Lankhmar.

Sebecloki wrote:

Zorblag wrote:

Kung Fu Exemplar gets Signature Skill (the Skill Unlock Feat) for a single skill at level 5. For this campaign (as we already have that,) is there anything that would make sense to replace it? A single talent or feat? A particular talent or feat that you can think of? Some skill ranks? Just let it go as it's only the one feat that's getting wasted and not a huge deal?

Just suggest something you think is fair.

Hmm, perhaps a general (non-combat) feat then if that sounds reasonable to you.

sounds good

I was messing around with my own magus, then abandoned it when I saw Arrandel as he looked similar but probably tougher in a fight. Brando's no better himself but a bit better at sharing aid around. Yes, I know Arrandel's taking another tack now. Anyway, basic stats for a dandy ranger instead here:

** spoiler omitted **...

calculate like characters -- if you have con 18, you have first level 35 + con bonus, then you get max hp like normal after that.

Is VMC free or do we have to pay the feat cost?

I was going to make you pay the cost, but I'm open to it being free if everyone would prefer that.

Who can say no to free? I’m fine either way you want to do it but 2 extra feats are nice too.

Still working on my fighter. Initiator and SoM are new to me. I may forgo one or both of them. If you hand out VMC free I might take advantage of that.

Having seen a more complete Ranger build appear, I'm considering switching over to a martial healer of sorts.

@Sebecloki, I'm going with a VMC wizard, and we're getting crazy things already, so two more feats wouldn't offend me at all, (though anything I'm adding at this point isn't particularly necessary for my character idea.)

@The Lucky Halfling, I would support a martial healer of sorts with us!

Okay, let's just do VMC for free then, I'll update the build rules on the campaign page in a little.

I am still working on my build but I am not familiar with POW and spheres. I thought cleric vmc came on earlier then it did so thanks for the pointers on that one. Also I think the build doesn't fit the martial theme as much as needed.

@Zorblag, it definitely appeared to be something that was missing. Seems like Alchemist would make for a good martial medic.

@Sebecloki, are we free to choose which archetype we take from SoM or do we need to stick to the one on the page you linked? The one you linked to was Mortal Chemist and the one I'm considering if Physician.

Still working on my fighter. Initiator and SoM are new to me. I may forgo one or both of them. If you hand out VMC free I might take advantage of that.

That's not how the build rules work -- you can't 'forgo' those archetypes.