[PFS 2e] GM Ladile & the Pathfinder Society Present: The Absalom Initiation (Inactive)

Game Master Lady Ladile

It is entirely possible that I either failed entirely to describe a door being present or got myself confused trying to account for the room descriptions mentioning doors as if entering from one specific direction.

But yes, there's one other room leading off of the drawing room that you have yet to explore.

So in light of this blog post from yesterday...who's making leshys in the next few weeks? :D

Leshy! Leshy! Leshy!

But I already made my Leshy monk for an adventure path. Now I need another stroke of inspiration.

Funny, my own leshy monk idea was one of two that I was noodling around for the Extinction Curse game I'm playing in but I ultimately went with a halfling ranger instead.

So my leshy monk idea gets to live as a PFS character, instead :)

I'll probably make a kobold inventor once Guns and Gears is out later this year.

And I'm trying to decide if I want to recreate my 1e Time Oracle now as a Cosmos Oracle or wait and see if an actual Time mystery gets published for 2e.

Everyone, I'll be on vacation starting on Wednesday the 21st and returning on Tuesday the 27th. My internet should be fine so I expect to continue posting.

If I need to be botted, put me in melee. Claws are my preferred weapon. I'll investigate any necessary leads and try to Clue In if requested.

Dang, they made that change after I bought the leshy but before I've even gotten to play it! At least I now get a free res I guess.

Thanks for the notice, Swayaah!

Is the ability to draw a weapon while moving with BAB >= +1 still a thing?

No. They gave us three actions to do that sort of thing.

Also, everyone literally has >= +1 at level one :)

There are ways to get discounted combo actions of various sorts, but they all come from class features/feats.

Just as a reminder to Ez, you have three actions a turn and you only spent two. Interact to grab your weapon and shield. A good freebie for a spare action is always recall knowledge, and you are trained in Religion.

Another good one is of course movement, or if you are near some sort of cover: take cover for +2 circumstance bonus to AC (basically the same as raising a shield except no shield block.) The shield spell doesn't stack with 'take cover'.

He might not have realized the Shield spell was 1-action. Most spells are 2-action.

For the sake of learning the system: the Escape action has the Attack trait, which means it suffers the Multiple Attack Penalty (MAP), so Ezren's Escape checks are at -5 and -10 respectively (though I think the zombie is dead after Jirelle hits it).

This is probably not going to earn me any friend points... :(

I recently tried to build a halfling paladin of Chaldira and looked into the sling staff. The halfling sling staff is a ranged weapon with a reload of 1. So there's nothing to say you can't use the sling staff to make a ranged strike at something right next to you or even grappling you, but it requires ammunition to be loaded as 1-action, so you can't rage, attack, attack, you'd need to rage, load, attack (and need to load each time before each attack). And likely even less welcome information is that since it's a ranged weapon, you're making ranged strikes, not melee strikes, so your rage damage bonus does not apply at all. Also, as a propulsive weapon, only half of your strength bonus applies.

Sorry... it was a neat idea.

EDIT: You could make an argument for using it as am improvised melee weapon but you'd take -2 to hit and be at the mercy of table variation for how much damage it could do.

Hrm, I'll have to look into that stuff. I always thought the whole purpose behind the sling staff was that it was a dual purpose weapon.

Also, using an oversized weapon does not increase the damage dice.

That was my assumption, too, but PF2 is very rules explicit and nothing says that the sling staff can also be used as a melee weapon. I looked back at PF1 because I figured the same thing and thought I must have gotten the idea from somewhere, but it doesn't suggest that in that description either. Maybe 3.5...

However, I may have to consider the improvised weapon with a penalty route and revisit my halfling paladin idea.

I'm not particularly tied to the sling stuff. Using a ranged weapon with giant instinct isn't a good combo, at least as your oversized weapon.

I'll rebuild him at the end of the scenario, or sooner if LL prefers.

Actually the sling-staff is based off the kender weapon hoopak, which does have STATS for 5E. I don't see why such a weapon couldn't exist in PF2E.

Maybe you could get a Fughting Stick instead? It is Halfling but it is meant for Mwangi. It also deals nonlethal by default so you'd have to take a penalty for lethal blows.

Filcher's Fork has a lot of utility for melee and ranged attack, and it also has the Agile and Backstabber traits, so it's great if you like to flank.

Failing all of that you could just get a Greatclub and BONK your way to victory.

Ezren may want to wait on that Recovery Check, let's see...

I'll rebuild him at the end of the scenario, or sooner if LL prefers.

Considering there seems to have been a genuine misunderstanding of how key aspects of your desired build would work, you may rebuild Bubba and/or purchase more fitting weapons once this combat encounter is over if you like.

(Spoilers, you'll get to rest without further molestation after you finish dealing with the zombies.)

If you'd rather wait until this scenario is over and Bubba's current build isn't totally experience-ruining for you, you may of course finish out the scenario as-is and then rebuild him afterwards.

Well, that could have been better, but it did what it needed to do.

Ezren is now 2 (whopping) HP and Wounded 1, bolstered vs. Battle Medicine for 1 hour.

EDIT: P.S. I am loving elf move speed, what a difference 5 ft makes.

Am I right that drawing a weapon in melee provokes because it has the manipulate trait?

Yes.

Of course fewer things have the ability to take AoOs in 2e, so that helps somewhat...

Quote:

Am I right that drawing a weapon in melee provokes because it has the manipulate trait?

Yes.

So is Release. :/

Ummm.. Release says "Unlike most manipulate actions, Release does not trigger reactions that can be triggered by actions with the manipulate trait (such as Attack of Opportunity)." [CRB p. 470-471]

Of course fewer things have the ability to take AoOs in 2e, so that helps somewhat...

Yeah, that's how I thought they'd balanced it now that I understand it. More actions provoke but fewer opponents can take advantage of that. Which is the opposite of how they did it in Starfinder where only 3 things provoke: casting, ranged attacks, and movement. So they rejected the SF solution to AoO complexity for a very different one in 2e. Curious. Have to ask to Mark Seifter why they did that at the next PaizoCon.

Ummm.. Release says "Unlike most manipulate actions, Release does not trigger reactions that can be triggered by actions with the manipulate trait (such as Attack of Opportunity)." [CRB p. 470-471]

This is correct, unless I'm missing something.

Pawero wrote:

Quote:

Am I right that drawing a weapon in melee provokes because it has the manipulate trait?

Yes.

So is Release. :/

Ummm.. Release says "Unlike most manipulate actions, Release does not trigger reactions that can be triggered by actions with the manipulate trait (such as Attack of Opportunity)." [CRB p. 470-471]

Oh, thank goodness. I just checked the list of manipulate trait actions and saw release was on it. That was blowing up my brain. :)

Have to ask to Mark Seifter why they did that at the next PaizoCon.

I believe they said it was to make combat more dynamic. In PF1, everyone felt locked into their battle position for fear of AOOs.

PF1 had a lot of Rock em Sock em Robot mentality where PCs just ran into melee and unleashed full attacks, refusing to leave. Monsters tended to have free grab and a bunch of other nasty effects.

I'm glad that PF2 got rid of AoOs for most characters, because it makes spending the last action to move around more attractive. It also makes the characters with AoOs much more scary to deal with.

Giant Bubba Ho-Tep wrote:

I'll rebuild him at the end of the scenario, or sooner if LL prefers.

Considering there seems to have been a genuine misunderstanding of how key aspects of your desired build would work, you may rebuild Bubba and/or purchase more fitting weapons once this combat encounter is over if you like.

(Spoilers, you'll get to rest without further molestation after you finish dealing with the zombies.)

If you'd rather wait until this scenario is over and Bubba's current build isn't totally experience-ruining for you, you may of course finish out the scenario as-is and then rebuild him afterwards.

And just like that, its an oversized greatclub. I'll do all the rebuild stuff afterwards.

I am however still pretty confident that I use the damage dice for a larger sized weapon (so the d10 goes to a d12 for greatclub).

Titan Mauler (Instinct Ability): You can use a weapon built for a Large creature if you are Small or Medium (both normally and when raging). If you're not Small or Medium, you can use a weapon built for a creature one size larger than you. You gain access to this larger weapon, which can be of any weapon type otherwise available at character creation. It has the normal Price and Bulk for a weapon of its size. When wielding such a weapon in combat, increase your additional damage from Rage from 2 to 6, but you have the clumsy 1 condition because of the weapon's unwieldy size. You can't remove this clumsy condition or ignore its penalties by any means while wielding the weapon.

In most cases, Small or Medium creatures can wield a Large weapon, though it’s unwieldy, giving them the clumsy 1 condition, and the larger size is canceled by the difficulty of swinging the weapon, so it grants no special benefit.

Emphasis mine.

The only effect that Titan Mauler explicitly provides is, "increase your additional damage from Rage from 2 to 6," which is the most of any instinct. There are no rules that I could find for increasing dice size with increasing the size of a weapon. And the rules for changing the size of a weapon explicitly state that it grants no special benefit.

There's also circumstantial evidence in the Large monsters in the Bestiary don't increase the damage of their weapons. E.g., Ogre Glutton's greataxe only does d12 damage, Hill Giant's great club only does d10, a fire giant's +1 striking greatsword only does 2d12 damage.

Battle Medicine (& Swayaah)...

It has been firmly established that Battle Medicine is a distinct activity from Treat Wounds.

1. I believe that receiving Battle Medicine does not lock out your ability to receive Treat Wounds. I.e., you are bolstered against Battle Medicine but not bolstered against Treat Wounds. Ultimately, it does not matter for a Forensic Medicine investigator since the cooldown is 1 hour for both, if ruled that it does, it just prevents double-dipping (and took 2 hours rather than 1 hour).

2. Does Battle Medicine have the same critical failure effect of Treat Wounds? I think so since Battle Medicine states "restore the corresponding amount of HP" and Treat Wounds' section on how many HP you recover includes the critical success, success, and critical failure effects.

So, if I'm correct, I'll use a Hero Point to avoid injuring my patient:

Medicine (T), Hero Point (vestments), Battle Medicine vs. Swayaah: 1d20 + 5 + 1 ⇒ (9) + 5 + 1 = 15

Yay. Managed to also get a success.

Healing, Forensic Medicine: 2d8 + 1 ⇒ (4, 3) + 1 = 8

(1) Yes, to my understanding the two are considered to be on separate 'cooldown timers' - at least that's how I've encountered it being handled in the past as a player and I see nothing in either description that would lead me to think otherwise.

(2) I would also agree with this since, to my understanding, Battle Medicine is meant to be the same type of action as Treat Wounds, except usable in combat (though it doesn't specify that it can ONLY be done in combat). If so, then all of the same success and failure conditions that apply to Treat Wounds will apply to Battle Medicine.

So yes, good use of a Hero Point :)

You guys are hilarious!

I'm out of time here at work atm but I'll try to get us moved on to our next task when I get home in a few hours :)

I am so conflicted about Secret Checks. On one hand, I can see and appreciate how usage of them can speed up the action - which means a lot in a medium as inherently slow as PbP can sometimes be.

On the other hand, I can't help but feel like it takes away some player agency as well as RP opportunities, which is a fairly big sticking point for me as a GM and as a player.

Maybe I just need more time to get used to them.

I struggled with that in the beginning as well, though since OP said that's how to do it, that's how I did it all GenCon long.

Interestingly, on PbP, I felt less conflicted about it.

Now, I never saw it as removing agency. All it removes is who rolls the dice. The player still makes the choices, which is what agency is about. However, when you sit down at a table, you want to roll your dice and see that number come up. What I couldn't counter was the argument, "How do I know you're not fudging the numbers against me?"

On PbP, in contrast, I don't feel as attached to rolling my dice. The history of GMs rolling initiatives and sometimes even saving throws plus the occasions when botting is required normalizes GM rolling for player.

I think the value of secret rolls depends on how much you've ever worried about players modifying their behavior based on the number they rolled. If you're not stressed about it--it's a game after all--then you probably find secret rolls more hassle than they're worth. However, I suspect that if half of us hadn't played this several times and you said, "Nobody but Pawero knows what this is. Pawero, you know that this is an undead construct from Nex," then we'd probably have rolled initiated combat promptly. Which, actually, creates RP opportunities. E.g., if someone rolled a different result and the two versions conflicted, how do you resolve which one to believe. Without secret checks, it would probably fall to the one who rolled a higher number on the d20.

And then there's my whole bias against the knowledge/memory system PF2 uses, but that's an entirely different soap box.

Roguey McRogue: "I search for traps."
GM "Cool, roll a Perception check."
Roguey McRogue: "Oops, I rolled a 1."
GM "You see no traps."

vs

Roguey McRogue: "I search for traps. Perception +6."
GM "Cool, I'll roll a Perception check."
GM rolls a 1
GM "You see no traps."

Because of the spoiler tag, Roguey McRogue can always double check if they're paranoid. I like how Secret checks move the needle between suspense and mechanics.

Another thing, as a player, that secret checks help me with is keeping other players from reacting to my roll instead of my roleplaying. I like to think that I'm pretty good at keeping out-of-game awareness of otherwise unknowable results from influencing my choices for my own characters. However, if I roll a 1, see the 1, and commit to my character's failure (using Roguey's failed Perception) and tell the others that the door is safe, then Random McRandom who has never searched for traps the entire dungeon says, "I'm going to search for traps just to make sure," it can be off-putting.

All fair points. I'm admittedly someone who's never really lost sleep over the possibility of players metagaming - my general default is to trust the players until they give me a reason to do otherwise. Of course I also recognize that I'm lucky to have mostly played with and GMed for good players (online & IRL) who rarely, if ever, give in to the temptation to metagame in the first place.

It's hard to explain but it somehow feels like instead of you guys actually playing the game, that I'm largely just narrating you through a large part of it sans the combats and the heavy-RP things. Which I suppose is silly because that's generally how the game is supposed to work! You'd think I'd be more excited to spend less time on the minutia of making you guys roll for every little thing.

I'll get the hang of it and figure out what 'degree' of Secret Checks is right for me when I'm on the GM side of the screen. It might also be the case that I need to be even stricter with my table load as GM, since accounting for Secret Checks does mean it'll take me a little longer to write my GM posts.

As far as the RK thing goes...I've got some issues with that too and I've been reading the thread you made on the topic with interest.

As a GM, there are a few reasons I won't deal with Secret checks/post the needed DCs.

- There's little risk for failure. Maybe the room actually has no traps and Roguey McRogue is being too paranoid.
- There's a lot of risk. The trap is sprung and it's really deadly. I want players to feel engaged in controlling their destiny and outcomes. I also may forget some resource (like a Hero Point) so I want them to feel more engaged in mechanics.
- I want it resolved quickly. Especially in PbP, where asking for secret rolls, waiting for them to state their bonus, and then I roll for them is much slower than just posting the results behind spoilers and saying "roll DC 15 Engineering Lore to open this spoiler".

It's another tool in my utility belt.

I'm a fan of the secret rolls for all the reasons you guys mentioned, but I do agree its another thing on the GMs plate to deal with.

Boy Pawero is a different character for me!

Work has been busy tonight so I'll try and get a post up later today after I've had some sleep.

Bah, lost power last night or I would have posted then. But at least there is a post now!

By the way, we're almost finished with this scenario! Once the current battle is over I'll be able to get us wrapped up, so your characters should be free for Gameday X games (or other games) soon :)

Ha! For some reason I thought there were 4 missions. :)

There are! But this is the last one; you already went to the museum, visited the haunted house, and checked out the Flotsam Graveyard :3

Oh! I forgot the museum!

Ran out of time last night to do any GM posting and I'm pretty tired this morning so I'll look to update later this evening!

oky doky smoky

And we are done!

To those who were not new to PFS 2e, thank you so much for your patience and suggestions and reminders throughout the course of the scenario!

To those who were new/fairly new to PFS 2e, thank you so much for your patience and I hope that the experience was a fun one!

I'll need your Earn Income checks or notes about other Downtime activities for your chronicles, which I should hopefully be able to complete over the weekend :)

Lore (Underworld) (T): Earn Income, Task 0, DC 14: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (9) + 7 = 16

They have since removed the responsibility of Downtime from the GM to the player--they're basically trying to reduce GM paperwork as much as possible--though you're more than welcome to help us out by documenting it for us. :)