Should a Witchwarper be able to bring dead allies back from different dimensions?

Over the holidays, I watched two Big Bads try to bring their dead loved ones back by searching different dimensions and finding a happier one where they lived. (One was on TV and one in the movies.)

One is definitely a witchwarper, the others, maybe not, but should this be an ability the witchwarper has, either as a capstone or a high-level spell?

It could work much like reincarnate, but deceased characters are pulled from other dimensions where they didn't die.

What do you think of this? Is this something you want to be able to do?

I think it's an ability that fits the witchwarper and seems to be a popular theme.

Since the spell list is not out, maybe this is something already in the works, but since reincarnate is on the list, maybe not? Hmmmmm.

Over the holidays, I watched two Big Bads try to bring their dead loved ones back by searching different dimensions and finding a happier one where they lived. (One was on TV and one in the movies.)

** spoiler omitted **

One is definitely a witchwarper, the others, maybe not, but should this be an ability the witchwarper has, either as a capstone or a high-level spell?

It could work much like reincarnate, but deceased characters are pulled from other dimensions where they didn't die.

What do you think of this? Is this something you want to be able to do?

I think it's an ability that fits the witchwarper and seems to be a popular theme.

Since the spell list is not out, maybe this is something already in the works, but since reincarnate is on the list, maybe not? Hmmmmm.

This is very thematic but I think there might be an issue. I know some players who would probably rather stay dead than play an alternate reality version of themselves under the grounds "Then it isn't really my character and my real character is really dead." Mechanically it won't matter but from an RP perspective it does. On the other hand this could lead to some interesting development where a person has an excuse to RP the character slightly differently. After all.. it isn't really his/her original character.

This is very thematic but I think there might be an issue. I know some players who would probably rather stay dead than play an alternate reality version of themselves under the grounds

True, though I could also never get a player to cast reincarnate.

They would rather stay dead and role-up a new character.

Rhyltran wrote:

This is very thematic but I think there might be an issue. I know some players who would probably rather stay dead than play an alternate reality version of themselves under the grounds

True, though I could also never get a player to cast reincarnate.

They would rather stay dead and role-up a new character.

I've had groups like that and I'm like that myself. I usually see death as a finality. Gives more weight to character death. Especially in Starfinder where it's very hard to die to begin with.

As long as the dead PC's player has agency in deciding whether the spell works, I think it's a fantastic idea.

should this be an ability the witchwarper has, either as a capstone or a high-level spell?

As for capstones you can, of course, use warp reality to cast raise dead.

Currently it'd be a GM call if pulling another version of the character from an alternate reality would count as an "effect whose power level is in line" with that, or with 6th level witchwarper spells.

I kinda like Reincarnate. Real consequences for death, but also new opportunities. I used it with my old human city druid to become a half-orc.

If the Witchwarper had a spell that brought dead characters back, but also gave the same benefits of a Mnemonic Editor, that would be super neat. You bring your character's soul back in a body & mind cloned from another version of you in another dimension, so you are still your "essence," but can change little bits and bobs of your last two levels.

Call it "Warpsoul" or something.

As for capstones you can, of course, use warp reality to cast raise dead.

Currently it'd be a GM call if pulling another version of the character from an alternate reality would count as an "effect whose power level is in line" with that, or with 6th level witchwarper spells.

Hmmm. Missed warp reality. The ultimate "I reject your reality" spell.

I kinda like Reincarnate. Real consequences for death, but also new opportunities. I used it with my old human city druid to become a half-orc.

If the Witchwarper had a spell that brought dead characters back, but also gave the same benefits of a Mnemonic Editor, that would be super neat. You bring your character's soul back in a body & mind cloned from another version of you in another dimension, so you are still your "essence," but can change little bits and bobs of your last two levels.

Call it "Warpsoul" or something.

I was thinking of ways your character from an alternate reality could be a little 'off' from you original character, and maybe pull some flavor from the alternate reality.

wings?
gills?
an eyepatch? lol

The Mnemonic Editor way might also be a cool and fun way to do it, and have the spell be different enough from reincarnate or raise dead
interesting...

I feel like there are two questions here with slightly different answers.

1. "Should Witchwarpers be able to bring back to dead?" I am inclined to say yes. . . but the most basic mechanic would be "Distorting reality and imposing one where the decedent never died". Which is to say, it really is the same person, the Witchwarper just edited out their death. The stresses on reality from the paradox produce effects that are, functionally, the same as any other Raise Dead.

2. "Should Witchwarpers be able to bring alternate versions of other people into their reality?" I am inclined to say the answer to this should also be yes. . . but at a higher level, and with more limits. By and large this is a bad way to try and resurrect someone, with retconning the past being much easier. Instead, its basically a type of summons, to bring in a temporary ally.

I feel like there are two questions here with slightly different answers.

1. "Should Witchwarpers be able to bring back to dead?" I am inclined to say yes. . . but the most basic mechanic would be "Distorting reality and imposing one where the decedent never died". Which is to say, it really is the same person, the Witchwarper just edited out their death. The stresses on reality from the paradox produce effects that are, functionally, the same as any other Raise Dead.

2. "Should Witchwarpers be able to bring alternate versions of other people into their reality?" I am inclined to say the answer to this should also be yes. . . but at a higher level, and with more limits. By and large this is a bad way to try and resurrect someone, with retconning the past being much easier. Instead, its basically a type of summons, to bring in a temporary ally.

I think I'm asking question number 2.

Mostly because it seems to be a popular plot, and with characters similar to the flavor of the witchwarper.

Interesting that you see it more as a temporary summon ally spell, and not a re-skinned raise dead.

1. "Should Witchwarpers be able to bring back to dead?" I am inclined to say yes. . . but the most basic mechanic would be "Distorting reality and imposing one where the decedent never died". Which is to say, it really is the same person, the Witchwarper just edited out their death. The stresses on reality from the paradox produce effects that are, functionally, the same as any other Raise Dead.

To be totally honest, I could even see this being more of a Breath of Life effect than Raise Dead. Shift a recent event so they don't die and take X much less damage (probably a bit less than an on-level Heal.)

Metaphysician wrote:

1. "Should Witchwarpers be able to bring back to dead?" I am inclined to say yes. . . but the most basic mechanic would be "Distorting reality and imposing one where the decedent never died". Which is to say, it really is the same person, the Witchwarper just edited out their death. The stresses on reality from the paradox produce effects that are, functionally, the same as any other Raise Dead.

To be totally honest, I could even see this being more of a Breath of Life effect than Raise Dead. Shift a recent event so they don't die and take X much less damage (probably a bit less than an on-level Heal.)

Sure, that would work. I might fluff it and give it the mechanics such that its a little more flexible, mind. Specifically, I'm imagining that it should have some leeway to undue a 'death' that is a little vague on exactly where or when the death happened, or the immediate requirement of a body, so long as you are present where the important event happened.

Example: somebody in their skivvies fails a Reflex save and is sucked out of a smashed space window, in circumstances where there is no chance they will be rescued until long after they die assuming their body could ever be found, which it probably wouldn't. They may not technically be dead for some minutes, and you definitely don't have the body, but I'd really like the Witchwarper "Negate Death" spell to be worded such that it could be used here.

I think giving the witch warper reincarnate flavored as, "You bring back the creature by replacing its dead body with a living body from an alternate dimension" would be pretty rad.

Give them a witchwarper specific "greater reincarnate" that let the witchwarper choose what the target came back to life as (or make it a paradigm shift) and it could be SUPER cool. Kind of like the Pathfinder witch's forced reincarnation grand hex.

I think giving the witch warper reincarnate flavored as, "You bring back the creature by replacing its dead body with a living body from an alternate dimension" would be pretty rad.

Give them a witchwarper specific "greater reincarnate" that let the witchwarper choose what the target came back to life as (or make it a paradigm shift) and it could be SUPER cool. Kind of like the Pathfinder witch's forced reincarnation grand hex.

In my opinion it would be super disturbing. Letting the PC die and replacing them by kidnapping them from an alternate dimenson. It's super villian crazy.

Alexander Augunas wrote:

I think giving the witch warper reincarnate flavored as, "You bring back the creature by replacing its dead body with a living body from an alternate dimension" would be pretty rad.

Give them a witchwarper specific "greater reincarnate" that let the witchwarper choose what the target came back to life as (or make it a paradigm shift) and it could be SUPER cool. Kind of like the Pathfinder witch's forced reincarnation grand hex.

In my opinion it would be super disturbing. Letting the PC die and replacing them by kidnapping them from an alternate dimenson. It's super villian crazy.

Yeah, this is the type of thing I am trying to *avoid* by defining how a Witchwarper revival works as "prevent the death in the first place". A person from another dimension is *not* the same person, and shoving Person A's soul into Person B's body is an act of considerable evil, whether Person B happens to resemble Person A or not.