That's one beautiful map!
Looks like Signy is gonna have to save the day >.>'
Does that ability work only on humanoids, or is it anyone? (I figure it is probably the latter, but I do want to check.)
Signy's saving the day? Oh dear. This is probably not going to go well...
I did check, because I thought it was weird, but the wording says, "all living creatures"
I was going to curse the dice roller’s “sudden and inevitable betrayal!”, but then I realized it’s just getting into character for Lina, first with her abysmal initiative roll, and then the Will save. XD
If we can survive this, it works quite well for tying some of my build ideas to story beats, at least.
Sounds like a plan, Signy! Maybe you could also lure the nasty little minion to where Veil could take a kick or bite out of it while getting your buffs up? I think it would probably be a bit too awkward to drag one of us unfortunates out of sight or range, however this dance works, or at least far enough to push the lucky person down the stairs (we’ll thank you later), unless you’ve secretly got super-strength. :)
The next few rounds are going to be interesting.
I did check, because I thought it was weird, but the wording says, "all living creatures"
Drat.
Oooh, this is bad, mmkay. Yeah, if we can get her to stop dancing, or get her to stop doing it near us, that'd be super helpful. Dazed is so nasty.
Vod and Veil should have a bonus against this, shouldn't they? From Devotion? Wait, no, that's next level. Drat.
Veil does have SR, but I'm not sure this is an SLA or whether it'd trigger against this effect.
Could Veil focus on stomping the little whizzy one? Signy don't need that extra static.
Vod also has SR 10. I forgot to include that in his header previously, along with his newly-minted DR and resistances. My baby boy is growing up!
"A captivated creature is dazed (it cannot attack, but can defend normally). This continues for as long as the baobhan sith dances."
Line of sight wont help here I'm afraid.
Also this is a supernatural ability so no SR I'm afraid.
Fortunately Rigg is also subject to the enchanting dance so it's just Signy vs Carmine in a battle to the death! ;D
Place ya bets!
Go, Signy, go!
This is so, so bad people. If this thing has any kind of DR, we're so screwed.
If you can get her to stop moving, maybe by tripping or grappling her, that'd be clutch.
Hm, good idea to keep in mind, but it seems very risky. A couple of questions.
Can bonuses to attack, like the ones granted by Studied Target and Divine Favor, be applied to combat maneuver attempts? Signy's CMB isn't particularly good. Drawing AoO's attempting maneuvers that aren't likely to succeed seems bad compared to using the action for attacking. Because...
A Will save of 19 is tough to make. Only Brental has a 50% chance or better of making it. How do we know everyone won't just have to save again when she restarts the dance? Does Signy have to make the save again when she restarts?
Not saying it isn't worth a try, but it's something that needs to be quite likely to work.
Looking at the text, I believe Divine Favor absolutely applies, while Studied Target might not RAW (but should RAI).
First, a combat maneuver check is, by definition, an attack roll. Some can be made with weapons (i.e., disarm, sunder, trip), but most are typically not (i.e., bull rush, dirty trick, drag, grapple, overrun, reposition, steal).
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target’s Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
A slayer can study an opponent he can see as a move action. The slayer then gains a +1 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks attempted against that opponent, and a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against it.
Calling upon the strength and wisdom of a deity, you gain a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3). The bonus doesn't apply to spell damage.
All that to say, I feel like her CMB should include both bonuses, but it's ultimately up to Rackal.
And we don't know for sure whether we'll have to make the save again, which is why I think preventing her from making it is important. There has to be a way to break the spell. I don't think the designers would have put a TPK situation in without some way out. She can't dance forever, right?
IMHO, Signy's buffed CMB to trip with her masterwork Aldori dueling sword should be:
+4 BaB
+3 Dex
+1 Sword Scion
+1 Masterwork
+2 Divine Favor
+1 Studied Target
Which is nothing to sneeze at, and probably the best that anyone in the party can do. That has to have at least a 50% chance of success.
Also note that you're getting a +2 to AC vs attacks of opportunity provoked by movement thanks to Meneas' Knave's Standard. It won't help vs AoOs vs combat maneuvers, but it might come in handy at other times.
It's actually +13 because her Fate's Favored trait bumps the Divine Favor bonus to +3 (or precisely gives an extra +1 to any other luck bonus).
Yeah, that's pretty good, and trip seems better. An extra +1 for her MWK weapon, and standing would draw an AoO. In a grapple natural attacks can still be used so that would get messy for Signy if she tried to maintain it. Also, Signy would need to switch to strength rather than dexterity for a grapple because it's Weapon Finesse that allows her to use dexterity on the trip. No weapon involved, no dexterity.
How +3? Don't you only have a CL of 4 right now, not 6?
Right, CL 4. Divine Favor +1 luck bonus/3 casters levels = +2 & +1 Fates Favored = +3
EDIT: Oh! I think I see what you mean. I wasn't considering the "minimum +1" clause. Without that, it would be a 1st level spell that doesn't even function until 3rd level.
I was thinking it's CL 1-3: +1, CL 4-6: +2, CL 7-9+: +3. But I think you're right. CL 1-2: min +1, CL: 3-5: +1, CL 6-8: +2, CL 9+: +3.
I'm pretty sure it grants +2 at CL 6 and +3 at CL 9.
Calling upon the strength and wisdom of a deity, you gain a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3).
It still functions from levels 1-2 even without three caster levels because of the "at least +1" language, but then continues to grant +1 from levels 1-5. Then it grants +2 from levels 6-8. Then it grants +3 from level 9 and beyond. Pathfinder 1E always rounds down, never up. It would be different if it said "for every three casters levels you have beyond the first," which some abilities do specify.
From a balance perspective, granting a +2 to attack and damage at level 3 would be monstrous. Bards don't get +2 for inspire courage until level 5. Similarly, the magus can at level 5 add +2 to her weapon from her arcane pool (unless you're a puppetmaster). Some 3/4 casting classes don't even get to their +2 buff until Level 8 (hunters and skalds go cry).
Compare the spell divine power, which inquisitors get at Level 10. It also specifies +1 to checks for every 3 caster levels, max +6 (at level 18). So at Level 10 when you gain access to the spell, it grants a +3 bonus (10-11), then +4 from 12-14 (12/3), +5 from 15-17 (15/3), and +6 at 18 (18/3).
At least that's how I've always interpreted these abilities. Again, it's up to Rackal.
Rooting for you, Signy!
Would it be worth declaring that for this combat she'll try to parry any time she has a panache point - at least if she starts taking any hits? It will take a bit of crit fishing, but any little bit will help, I figure.
... Hmm, and now I have ideas ("A clever and cunning plan!" :) ) for things to try if we survive all this (although I think the dignity of the three of us spending X many rounds trying not to drool is done for).
Lina will have to add protection from evil to her shopping list, and start preparing suppress charms and compulsions on the regular in the meanwhile. Looks like she picked the wrong day to trust in her elven enchantment resistance and try for some flashier magic. :/
Oh, maybe this dance effect is like an emanation? So, no line of sight, but with some sort of range? 'Course, Signy's the most archer-y one of all of us, I think, and I'm not sure Carmine's silly enough to be lured too far away, unless she gets bloodied a bit more.
There has to be a way to break the spell. I don't think the designers would have put a TPK situation in without some way out. She can't dance forever, right?
Well... Kingmaker is an earlier adventure path. Those aren't always so carefully balanced in their encounters as the later ones are. Probably the single most famous case (at least that I know of) is the Xanesha encounter in RotRL, the one you're watching now Brental. We're playing the anniversary edition of the adventure path, where Xanesha has been toned down to bring her more in line with what parties can handle. In the original RotRL, she would TPK parties as often or more often than not.
I mean even with the new version in our game, you can tell the GM is looking for ways to handicap her a little to make fighting Xanesha more manageable.
There are others here and there. Second Darkness is infamous. There's an encounter in Book 3 or Ruins of Azlant that's such a brutal setup combining the enemy and the encounter area that I can only think a party specifically designed to handle that encounter has a chance to survive. The latter half of book 1 in Reign of Winter is a famous character killer.
That's not to say this situation is comparable, but they certainly do exist.
Would it be worth declaring that for this combat she'll try to parry any time she has a panache point - at least if she starts taking any hits? It will take a bit of crit fishing, but any little bit will help, I figure.
I didn't use it in the first round, but I'll be using parry. Well, at least once. I roll crits so rarely that I'm not even going to bother thinking about the possibility of getting back a panache point.
I don't figure it will take long to find out what the damage from Carmine looks like. If it seems to be on the milder side, I'll probably save the parry for a little longer than if it's heavy.
I trust Rackal and her like of us, our characters, and the game to not put us in an unwinnable situation.
I have suffered one TPK as a player, and functionally committed one as a GM. For my part, it was a one-shot where the party tried to chase after the boss when they ran and got caught by a massive ooze that ate them. They were bedraggled already, and in the end two of them sacrificed themselves for the others to get out alive. It didn't feel too bad since it was a one-shot.
We all sat there dumbfounded before ending the session.
The GM explained that he was just running things by the book, which I think is a poor excuse. In my mind, he could have done any number of things.
Instead, the new party had hastily written backstories, no canonical relationships with any of the NPCs we got to know earlier in the book, and no knowledge of the larger metaplot of the AP. We also made PCs specifically designed to kill things as much as possible instead of being geared towards the social dominance of the rest of the AP. It was a very avoidable TPK, and I'm salty about it five years later.
Anyway. /rant
Happy hunting, Signy!
Not that I think we'll end up dying, but I do have a spare PC for Kingmaker in my back pocket.
So it does have DR and also comes with three attacks per round. There is no future in which I last enough rounds to scratch this thing to death. Even if this doesn't end quickly in its favor, I can't kill it before my buffs start timing out.
We're screwed. What the hell is this thing doing showing up against 5th level characters?
Eating them for breakfast? XD
I'm holding out hope it's narrative DR, sort of, explaining why a solid hit with buffs against an unarmoured foe didn't do as much as sharp pieces of steel tend to do against human-shaped and -squishy things.
Also, I'm traveling this week where I'll have less than stellar reliable internet access, so Elven comments from the sidelines might be comparatively infrequent.
In the spirit of trying to maintain optimism, Lina's got Craft Wondrous Item now, so ideas for fashionable fripperies that might help us avoid mind-whammies in future (or just that folks might want crafted) are always welcome. :)
Hey I had hoped that Brental would be sitting pretty being a Wisdom-based caster with a good Will save and a +4 vs effects from fey, but apparently I have no such luck.
Let's all get seducer's banes!
Happy trails, Lina!
Might be best to make a run for it at this point. Or anything you could do to get her to stop dancing for a round. Her dance can't work on the same creature more than once a day.
Likewise, I'd hoped my Fey Friend would've kept Meneas about. Alas. Is it really just a save or dazed, and then not a reroll every round? That is tough.
Scrolling through spells, feats, and class abilities that cause the dazed condition, they almost all last for 1 round. One of the few spells that can last for multiple rounds and affect multiple targets, wandering star motes, indicates that the target needs to make a save each round.
The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC. A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.
If it was the fascinated condition, we'd get new saves for every hostile action and it would break automatically with an attack.
The closest thing that I have seen to this is the harpy, whose captivating song ability specifies that:
This effect continues for as long as the harpy sings and for 1 round thereafter.
In a clarifying FAQ, James Jacobs indicated that the intent behind this ability was not perma-locked captivation, and that the supernatural ability requires a standard action to use every round. But maybe the Baobhan Sith's hips just don't lie.
Also, does she have DR? Three of us succeeded on our knowledge (nature) rolls with a 28, a 23, and a 20. I'm fairly certain that we would know, between the three of us, whether she has DR.
I guess it might be time to go for the hail-mary of a trip attempt or other suitable combat maneuver? I would think the former would do, unless Carmine's doing some surprisingly sexy breakdancing. :)
But I wouldn't blame Signy for trying to get out ASAP with a withdraw action or whatever.
Oooh, on the staying positive front, seducer's banes are even floral! Adding that to the "Stuff to Save Up For" list. Thanks, Brental!
Captivating Dance (Su) When a baobhan sith dances, all living
creatures within 30 feet that view the rhythmic swaying and
movements of her body must succeed on a DC 19 Will save
or become utterly enthralled and captivated. Creatures that
are sexually attracted to females who view this dance suffer
a –2 penalty on their saving throw. A creature that makes its
save cannot be affected again by the same baobhan sith’s
captivating dance for one day. A captivated creature is dazed
(it cannot attack, but can defend normally). This continues for
as long as the baobhan sith dances. A baobhan sith can move
and act normally (including using her spell-like abilities) while
maintaining her dance. The save DC is Charisma-based.
This is the test directly from the AP if you want to see if I'm doing something wrong >.>'
Oh I don't doubt you; it's just a surprisingly unbalanced ability given the rest of Paizo's design philosophy. I'm just looking for a counter from the sidelines, thus my recommendation to Signy to make her stop dancing by any means possible.
@Rackal: I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think it's a ridiculous encounter for a group of four 5th level characters. The encounter is essentially decided by a single, initial will save with an very high DC, and a penalty that's very likely to apply to the roll.
It's easy for an entire party to fail the check, which is a TPK. It is probable that half or more of the party will fail, which will usually be a TPK without the right classes with exactly the right equipment making the save.
Captivating Dance combines some of the best aspects of Enchantments, Bardic Performance, and Hexes while eliminating all of their drawbacks. There are no subsequent saves, no limit on rounds for the effect, and the once started, the effect requires no concentration or actions and can be used indefinitely, while no actions can be taken by unaffected characters to rouse affected characters.
Revenants are scary as hell, I've seen them a couple of times and they are character killers. A baobhan sith is a turbo charged revenant that you can't run from, and without any of the revenant's weaknesses. Instead of killing characters, it kills parties.
And let's not forget this encounter pairs a baobhan sith with a quickling, which is another difficult bag of worms.
Unless the intent of the designer was to kill all or most of the party at this juncture in the campaign, this encounter shouldn't be here.
I will quibble with one thing. Captivating Dance requires the target to view it from within 30' for it to have an effect. RAW nothing is said about line of sight or distance after that, so in the absence of any explicit mention it can be understood to continue even if those initial restrictions are no longer met.
However Paizo is notorious for vague, confusing, and contradictory rules and descriptions. I think RAI Captivating Dance would at least require the ongoing viewing of the dance for the effect to continue. It just makes sense that something needs to be actively keeping the target captivated going forward after the first save. If the target can no longer see the dance, they would no longer be captivated. This also makes sense on the back end. If the Captivating Dance stops, the effect ends even if the captivated character can't see it end. That makes far less sense than what I think is intended, which is captivating dance having an effect because it is viewed, and only because it is viewed.
Narratively, I kind of like the idea of a "Belle Dame Sans Merci" sort of vibe to it, with the enchantment persisting as long as the caster bothers to maintain it, leaving the poor victims unable to get her off their minds, even if left "alone and palely loitering," but with only one save, that is brutal, even if it works on the scale of rounds.
Like the others said, I'm sure you're running it right, Rackal, and we're just trying to figure out how to get out of this alive. Well, and wondering what the monster designers were thinking. :)
... Now that I think of it, I don't think I've seen the Baobhan Sith in any of the in-house bestiaries, so I wonder if it's a third-party thing that the module author didn't look at very closely before deciding it looked cool.
Oooh, and I wonder if I've guessed what Signy is up to. It's all edge-of-the-seat suspense here!
I'm sorry I've been quiet, I'm sick and have needed the rest. As the others have said, I think it's more on the module than on you, Rackal.
I hope everyone's doing alright.
In case concerns about tactics and such are an issue in-game, especially in her current state of mind, befuddled by enchantment, Lina would be all too willing to risk getting drained a bit if that's what it takes to give Signy an opening. No, really. A queen must make sacrifices for her people, noblesse oblige, and all that.
Not that she wouldn't go down fighting, but if you asked her right now, she'd probably say there are worse ways to go. ;)
And now I'm remembering Dracula: Dead and Loving it again.
I'm feeling a bit better now, but I'm still not at 100%, sadly. I will be able to post when the time comes, though.
Glad to hear you're getting better Meneas! I hope you don't have much longer to go.
Ugh. Figures that I caught a bug at the end of what passes for spring break in my part of the world. Which is a mercy in some ways, but dreadfully inconvenient in more important ones. The past few days have not been fun, but I think I’m over the worst of it now.
Also, poor Brental is going to end up with a complex about people out to get Vod at this rate. I’d look into hosteling armour, but I’m not sure how well that would work. Ideally, we might homebrew some sort of charm that could be attached to any suitable armour for when Vod outgrows it, and since Lina’s got Wondrous Item, not Magic Arms, for her crafting feat.
I hope you feel better! I was also under the weather a bit last week and still have a lingering cough.
Brental is going to pour half of his gold into protections for Vod. And yeah, unfortunately I think that armor and weapons are the only magic items that don't resize to fit the wearer. Since he'll be large in a couple of levels (and huge a few after that), it creates a bit of a conundrum.
Yep, armor and weapons require some other effort to resize them. I recall that there's some sort of magic forge in the Giantslayers AP that does it, but we don't have easy access to such things.
Not unless y'all wanna take a break from running our kingdom to go slay some giants. It's only around 1000 miles, right? How long could that possibly take? 2-3 months round trip?
/s
Isn’t there, canonically, an elf gate (you can tell I’m posting OOC! XD ) in Ustalav? Anyone’s guess what links to it, and if it’s even on the right side of the country to get to the Hold of Belkzen, but hey. Unfortunately, Lina’s too provincial to actually know much of anything about the gate network. The one link that I guess would be pretty much common knowledge for those who bother to find out is the weekly express between Kyonin and the largest elven settlement in Varisia, but that’s definitely not an improvement.
Anywho, I was thinking more of a golly-gosh-darn button sort of thing for situations where poor Vod is getting roughed up pretty badly and could do with being scooped away for safekeeping. If Brental’s comfy with the idea of getting his inner dwarf on (“Oh, that it should come to this!” Lina groans dramatically, hand to brow) and stomping around in stone armour, or doing the Ajax thing and carrying a really big shield, Vod could be whisked away to safety as needed until he gets Huge.
Brental has a good dwarven friend from the mountains. He could get his dwarf on.
The obvious answer is to ride Vod and take Mounted Combat. Very easy, no? :P