Kingmaker

Game Master Rackal28

Aw, our own people were unfriendly towards us? Sad Brental is sad.

Brental casts his eyes downward as Kundal speaks, but then brings them back up when Lina asks him to confine his answers to only those questions asked.

Stop making this harder on yourself, he thinks. And us.

The druid nods to Kundal in encouragement. "You can trust that we will be fair, Kundal. Remember...mother's spicy herring soup."

Really not helping Lina’s latent paranoid anxieties that all you druids are up to something here, Brental. :p

As to "what d'you do with a drunken sailor dreaming werewolf," I was thinking more like “relegated to an island” sort of thing, only probably on dry land, unless there’s a convenient island in the Tuskwater or something, or “released on parole.” Plunk Kundal down on the other side of the river, tell him not to cross back but to check in every day at such-and-such a time on pain of outlawry (subject to summary execution / killable with impunity if he shows his face in our domains or annoys any of our people).

That way he can still do whatever his thing is, assuming he can get by in the wild, mostly, without us either looking like we’re coddling him or just letting him loose.

That’s Lina’s theory, anyway. She’s absolutely open to a few minutes hasty conferral in Sylvan at the bench before sentence is passed for second and third thoughts once we see how everyone’s taking it, and she’s in no position or inclination (yet :) ) to be tyrannical. It wouldn’t be hard at all to convince her to keep Kundal closer, if that looks safer and doesn’t drastically increase unrest in town.

Oh, druids are always up to something, don'tcha know.

I knew it! It’s a conspiracy!

…

Fortunately for you, Lina’s girlfriend is a bacchanal, so Lina won’t be cribbing from the senatus consultum de Bacchanalibus to pass something similar de druidibus.

She’s far too nice and chaotic for anything like that. :)

Sorry, Signy's gotta be Signy. :)

Not at all, someone needs to keep Lina (mostly) honest, or at least from letting it all go to her head.

Certainly, for now at least, the dice have decided that she's kind of clueless about how to play nice, and she really doesn't want to drive anyone to borrow any ideas from Galt. XD

Lina pauses just before she sweeps away, her mouth briefly falling open in surprise and chagrin.

That is a matter of perspective for the most part, surely, she thinks, as the druid’s remarks touch one of her specialities quite nearly. She also wonders, considering Meneas’ fey attachments, if nothing else, whether silver would be a better choice, though she appreciates that there’s a metaphor - mattocks and hoes and harrows and all that - at work here.

In a rare moment of common sense, she closes her mouth and takes her leave.

Brental's gonna metaphor. I have taken a year of character development to essentially mean that half of what he speaks is proverb and metaphor now, developing a certain air of mystique as that vaguely creepy guy who turns into animals all the time.

Branagh hamming it up here is one of the few moments I remember from the film, and his cry of outrage is pretty much how I imagine Lina feels right about now. (Only without the animal noises to follow.) :)

Much Ado About Nothing is one of the Shakespeare comedies I know the least about (probably because of a lack of well-known operatic adaptations for me to pick arias from, and because it was never put on where I grew up), but this looks like a lot of fun.

I think we bandied about building a jail. We can start doing that now if we have the funds.

Otherwise, the kobolds worked up a reasonable jail, if I recall, if they'd be willing to be jailers.

A third option: Brental could house Kundal in his grove, putting him to work tending the orchard and such, and coordinating with his fellow magic users to construct some wards.

Ugh, druids. And mystics generally. ;) … Lina’s really in no position to judge (as I should try to work into my posts soon), and metaphor and mystique are probably preferable to weird herbal experiments and puppy eyes pleading for help carving up any number of dangerously venomous critters.

I actually know very little Shakespeare. I’ve only ever taken the one course after high school, which mostly covered the greatest hits, while I’ve always been partial to the ‘romances.’ (Do folks still call them that? Pericles, A Winter’s Tale, Cymbeline, The Tempest.) If you like what I gather is kind of Branagh’s signature style – flamboyant, star-studded cast, and, as you say, a sense of fun – I liked his Hamlet, even if it uses the whole text, which no one ever does – his Much Ado is neat. I remember thinking even he couldn’t do much with the Hero/Claudio subplot, but it was a long time ago, and it may just have gone over my head, if it wasn’t just cultural differences between us and Shakespeare about what fits into (mostly) comedy.

I think we bandied about building a jail. We can start doing that now if we have the funds.

Otherwise, the kobolds worked up a reasonable jail, if I recall, if they'd be willing to be jailers.

A third option: Brental could house Kundal in his grove, putting him to work tending the orchard and such, and coordinating with his fellow magic users to construct some wards.

Sorry, responding to the earlier post first. Oooh, we have a first guinea pig! Er, un-wolf. We could try a Panopticon, complete with a lidless eye, wreathed in flame? Or, OK, maybe something a teense more practical. XD

Maybe a barracks would also be a good temporary solution? We'll probably want one anyway, and I would hope it would have a few secure rooms for armoury and (should it ever become necessary) storing POWs and such that could be repurposed.

With our town hall, a jail is half cost (7 BP), while the barracks are still slightly cheaper at 6 BP. Both are good, though, and I think we'll want both in the long term.

If Brental has his way, he might kill the worg and then claim the wolf pack as his own. This would be different from how he began the adventure.

Yay, more furbabies! For those who are into that. :)

I should probably think about what Lina's doing as a plant mum, since she has some seeds to plant. I need to double-check some rules stuff.

Oh, and on the subject of pretentious wordiness: I am Hyalinnea Kyrithra, and I approve of this nonsense entirely. (Spoils the punchline to a minor NPC in Expeditions: Viking, if that's a worry to anyone. The typo makes it that much better.)

Oh, my potential usefulness against fey will come up here! In that humanoid (or fey) targeting effects won't work on Meneas if used by fey, because he can count as either humanoid or fey for the purposes of such things.

Benefits for Brental, too! Resist Nature's Lure gives me huge bonuses vs targets originating from fey. Fey buddies?

Lina can feel her cheeks growing ever so slightly warm as Brental makes his final sally before parting for the evening, and her inner voice murmurs almost subconsciously, though with bemused appreciation, about interfering druids and their good intentions and such. His heart seems to be mostly in the right place, as far as she can tell. Loosening up a bit, but perhaps still needing a bit of cheering up and encouragement to consistently see the better side of things and people. Brental's still neutral, not neutral good, yeah?

Oh yes, still quite neutral. His previous lawful neutralness was one of devotion to his Order and the ideals of society, tempered with an even hand of recognizing that one plants with one hand and reaps with the other. The events of a year ago shook his faith in structures. Good and evil are still loose concepts that he understands philosophically but rejects practically. For Brental, things are what they are, and ascribing moral judgment to them is somewhere between counterproductive and fruitless. When a wolf eats a deer, this is not evil. The wolves, the deer, the grass, the parasites, they all live in balance, providing checks on each other. There is life and death, growth and suffering, but in all things balance.

It will take some effort to get him to swing to any of the four cardinal alignments, but there are potential future (i.e., Book Three+) versions of Brental that are good, chaotic, lawful, and even evil. I have my preference and plans, but my initial plans were already kerfuffled by our wonderful GM!

I'm going to do a bit of thread crawling accounting to see exactly how much gold we have. From there, we should decide how much we want to sell, how much we want to buy, and how much we want to set aside for kingdom improvements.

Thanks, Brental, for doing this sort of administrative stuff. I know that I, as a GM, struggle to do it, and I, as a player, am not fond of doing it either.

And I'm among the worst of the worst at it. So thanks from me as well Brental.

Accounting round-up! Brental isn't the kingdom's treasurer, but polyfrequencies is our table's accountant.

At some point previous, I was trying to account for how much gold was flowing in and out of the party based on which PCs were around, but I have dispensed with that in favor of simplicity.

We also have a few items unaccounted for:

You guys are gonna be getting more wealth than you probably normally do in games because... well there are a bunch of optionally super fun magic items in this AP and I'm working on side-quests for you guys to potentially pick them up and am not going to lower the amount of loot you'll get otherwise xP

Also go ahead and transform those bolts! I don't mind~

Three cheers for polyfrequencies! Thanks for wrangling the numbers!

(It probably is a good thing that it's not Brental doing the accounting, because if some herald of Abadar were to show up offering a blessing for saintly accounting, Lina might just say something she'd regret in an attempt to keep her friend from being tempted to backslide towards law. ;) )

Are we going with the idea that with Morof gone, we're holding on to the spellbook and wands he found? I certainly have no objection - it will give Lina some more options and keep her out of trouble for at least another afternoon, probably.

As I understand it, we still have the +1 rapier to either sell, reforge if possible, or just use as is until we have enough liquidity to commission a brand-new weapon to specifications.

Lina would be happy to glom onto one of the amulets of natural armour, incidentally.

Most of Lina's share is sunk (characteristically, since she's now officially Extremely Fashionable) into her ridiculous shoes, crafting and scroll and scribing expenses. *Dramatic sigh.* It's one of the downsides of trying to establish a new realm where one can't just pop down to the local wizards' guild and flash some gold to poke about their spellbooks rather than having to work mostly from scrolls. :)

I don't think there are any purchases she really wants / can afford to make at the moment. That might change after we talk to this dryad, if she can give Lina some tips on sourcing / working with some special materials.

I said a while back now that Signy can keep the rapier (unless it's already been figured in as sold. I don't want to force anyone to do more math). She does have proficiency with rapier and it still works with her swashbuckler abilities. Her archetype adds Aldori Dueling Sword without removing any of the standard swash weapons. It could come in handy to have a magical melee weapon, but it's probably not a big deal since she has her bow.

If the Flaming crossbow bolts can be arrows instead, Signy would be happy to take them.

If the amulets and ring are going to Meneas, Lina, and Signy, Signy can take the +1 Amulet. Archery keeps her back where's there's less danger so she can get by with a lower AC.

Here's a quick wish list. Given time I'm sure I can add to it, but this is a decent start.

NEEDS:

Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 - 4,000
Efficient Quiver - 1,800
Headband of Inspired Wisdom - 4,000
Cloak of Resistance - 1,000

WANTS

Legacy Arrows - 305 each
Sipping Jacket - 5,000
Liberator' Key - 2,000
Elven Chain Mail - 5150
Tankard of the Drunken Hero - 5,300
Alter of Cayden Cailean - 8,000

I think the biggest immediate need is the Belt of Dex. When she has it Signy will also need to trade in her leather lamellar for a chain shirt to get the full AC bonus for her dex.

Much of the wanted stuff is Caiden themed obviously. Cool to have for thematic reasons, but not essential.

I wouldn't mind taking any of the protective magic items, nor do I have any strong preference for which one I get. I suppose I'll take the ring, since the bonuses are nigh-identical?

I agree we should shove much of our money into BP. I forget the exact exchange rate, but we've got a fair amount and we are literally just starting when it comes to kingdom activities.

Other than that, I'll have to look into what amount of money we should invest into BP before I make any decisions on what to purchase.

If Signy picks up the belt now (or soon), she would have an easy 4,000 to invest in BP.

Meneas has a small wishlist, most of which are out of his price range (significantly). However, a few aren't.

He wants to get his sword enchanted to +1 (I figure his lance already has enough of a bonus to hit and damage), and maybe get Veil some clandestine horseshoes. Might want to get a headband of charisma eventually, but that's not a big deal. Other than that, maybe a shield cloak for the style? But I'd want him to enchant it into a +1 shield, at least, which would cost more, too.

I probably need more coffee this morning, since I’m a bit confused. I’m guessing the gp values Brental posted for each of us represent his best estimate for our current gear and coin?

As I understand things, Lina’s down to about 200 gp, which, eyeballing things, seems about right given her expenses so far, and places her at about 6 000 gp in terms of various bits of loot, especially with the unassigned protective item to be factored in. I’m happy to just call it even for now and go forward from there.

FWIW, I think it’s 4 000 gp to 1 BP, with a bit more work to convert any one thing worth more gold than that to the equivalent build points.

Oh, and if we’re doing wishlists, here are a few ideas for Lina. I have others, but those are for higher levels. In order of decreasing likelihood/affordability:

Iadaran dress uniform (2 625 gp)
– Lina definitely has a contact who could probably hook her up, especially with one from a few seasons ago. (Your witch is fashionable, but realistic about how well she can keep up with what’s happening in civilization.) Or maybe something fell off a cart somewhere who knows how long ago? :)

Wyroot for crafting (ideally still green / living, per the special materials list)
– Lina would need about 1 600 gp worth of the stuff for what she has in mind.

Shroud of venom (4 500 gp)
Cackling hag’s blouse (6 000 gp)
Mirror of guarding reflections (7 000 gp)

Incidentally, she’s planning on taking Craft Wondrous Item asap, so that, and holding on to some coppers, might be worth bearing in mind.

(Cue awkward moment: “Ma’am, I know that’s for the Lady Councilor, but would you mind putting that doodad aside for the moment?” “Hush, at least she’s not working on something poisonous during our meeting this time.” XD )

Okie dokie, I'm going to direct everyone to the loot sheet (also linked in the campaign order, thanks to Rackal). Hopefully the spreadsheet is as clear as possible, but I want to point out a couple of features.

What is the most relevant to individuals is in Columns AA through AO (so scroll to the right).

'Ma'am'? You're not styling yourself as 'Your Grace' Lina? You're slipping! :p

I once had occasion to look up forms of address - I had to write a formal letter to a higher-ranking church person (a dean, I think?) after an event I organized once (a little silly story all its own) - and I don't remember the details of the odds and ends I browsed through while getting there, but IIRC, in the system I'm drawing inspiration from, even a queen is addressed as "Your Majesty" only at the start of the conversation, and then "Ma'am" thereafter.

Or, in other words, Lina is working her way up, knowing certain individuals need time to get used to the idea. :p

Hey guys, I'm sorry I'm trying to figure out the rules for a verbal duel based on the rules Brental posted but I'm just... not understanding it...

For example it keeps talking about 'edges' and I can't seem to find any mention of what edges are or what they do just when people do or don't have them?

Can anyone help explain?

I’m not familiar with the verbal duel rules, so I’m happy with just doing a free-form sort of thing if everyone’s happy with that.

Taking a quick look, bless the Archive of Nethys people for all their work, but the way they break things up (in general, but here too) is really counter-intuitive, I find.

As I understand it, edges can be spent to gain a reroll in a “round” of a verbal duel. How many one gets depends on stuff like audience sympathies, social (dis)advantages of one of the parties, and then some rather complicated stuff based on bonuses to various skills. One also gains an edge each time one wins an “exchange,” the set of rounds that represent a particular point being debated, or whatever. Some edges are keyed to particular tactics: if one wins an exchange with logic, one gets an edge that one can only use with another logical argument, for example.

AoN truncates the rules text unless one specifically clicks through to the pages with additional sections.
The introduction to “edges” is the last section here.
How “tactics” work is here, with additional details about edges for social (dis)advantages just before the Tactics heading.
The example provided helped me a bit to get a sense of the flow of this sort of thing, even if I ignored the details of just how the “tactics” were working or where the “edges” were coming from.

It’s entirely up to you how we handle this. We could jump into the deep end of this duel business, or work up to it (by deciding, say, that this time edges will only come into play through the use of tactics and winning exchanges), or just table it for later and do something else for now.

Sure. It's frankly an overcomplicated system that saw some use in the War for the Crown AP and a couple PFS scenarios, but I think it has merits for social encounters. Unfortunately, Archives of Nethys has not organized this particular set of rules very intuitively. Edges are discussed here.

An Edge is basically a limited hero point that allows you to reroll a specific tactic. You get them by prepping the audience or by having specific skill bonuses (like the feat Skill Focus).

Your skill bonus for a given tactic includes your total number of ranks, the +3 for it being a class skill, and your Charisma modifier. This requires you to totally recalculate your skills, which is...frustrating. It's probably even more frustrating for the GM, as you have to reverse engineer a statblock just to prepare for a verbal duel. It's a lot.

For instance, I currently have a +5 to Diplomacy with Brental. My Empathic Diplomat trait allows me to use my Wisdom modifier (+3), and I get a +2 for my archetype's Mediator ability. Apparently none of this matters in a verbal duel, and if I chose to use Diplomacy for a tactic, I would have a whopping -1 and no edges. On the other hand I have a +10 to Linguistics, with 4 ranks, +3 from class skill, +0 from Ability Modifier, +2 from Truespeaker, and +1 from Weathered Emissary. This would actually be a +6 and 1 Edge. (Brental is not built mechanically to be a debater.)

I had a discussion a couple years back with someone who was trying to convert (and fix) the system for 2E. I took some notes on retrofitting it for 1E, but I lost all of it when my laptop died in February.

So I was kind of joking about using the verbal duel rules.

I think I like what I think it’s trying to do, but as you say, probably best used with considerable planning and in need of some tweaking, and I’m someone always at least vaguely intrigued by fiddly rules (sub)systems.

(On the other hand, on a vaguely related note, my only experience with The Dark Eye system is through the CRPG(s) that use it, and just basic combat, unless one picks it up more easily around a table than it looks to me, seemed like a lot, so I have my limits.)

To pick up your example, while I’m very much in favour of making Charisma matter more, and would be leery of letting that feat that lets one swap Str in Cha for Intimidate checks apply (and even then, maybe for some Presence checks, in an Ajax vs. Odysseus scenario, say) in a verbal duel, I would be inclined to let Empathic Diplomat and such that play around with mental ability scores apply.

And the limits on repetition seem a bit stringent. Sure, there are limits, and I like the dynamism of not just going all-in on whatever tactic one’s best at, but what if one’s playing for the in-character equivalent of an epical, eponymous speech or style? Whither the Golarion jeremiads? philippics? (searches desperately for a more contemporary reference) um, Gish gallops?

…

Have we convinced you it’s not worth the headache yet, Rackal? Ugh, word nerds are the worst. ;)

_ _ _ _ _

Anyway, on a more immediate note, are we ever going to learn our lesson about splitting the party before one of us needs a reincarnate or something?

Place your bets on whether things first come to a head because one of our scouts / vanguard walks into something deeply unpleasant, or Lina suffering a terminal case of foot-in-mouth disease. XD

No one is allowed to die until level 7.

Until then, Brental is gonna ask Zuki to find a scroll of Reincarnate. It's only 700 gp, and we have the funds.

The long version is this, Signy. If you have any specific questions, let me know.

Oh, okay. I must assume Signy's horse is not combat trained. There's no way she'll be able to make the handle animal check so instead she'll need to dismount immediately.

I was planning on dismounting in the next round anyway so no big deal. I was just trying for better positioning before I did it. So, move action goes to dismounting rather than studied target. Attack is held rather than regular.

What's the status of purchased items? If Signy's buying that belt of Dex +2, does she have it now, or will those purchases be role played in the future?

Meneas, also remember Signy has Bless going.

Yep, thanks for the reminder. It's up in my status bar, but I'd honestly forgotten.

And yeah, I think that's a safe assumption - most horses aren't combat trained.

Diplomacy: 1d20 + 7 + 1 + 2 ⇒ (17) + 7 + 1 + 2 = 27 :D

*throws fists into the air* Boo. Yah.

As much as I'm a bit worried about Meneas and Signy, I have to say, I'm loving the drama of cutting between simultaneous social and sword-y disputes. I want to see this episode of ... hmm. What would we call the glorious, glitzy big-budget period drama to immortalize our exploits? :)

I vote Challenge of Chairs.

Good luck to our combaty folk! Again, don't die.

So, I'm not sure what's going on with Marion's sister, but I'm guessing it's one of:
1) Shenanigans
2) Clueless parents, when it comes to naming conventions
3) Evil parents, ditto (Probably a good thing I'm unlikely ever to become a mum, because any hypothetical kids wouldn't thank me for the sorts of names I'd like to foist on them)

As for Kesten, it was bound to happen sooner or later, with or Mr. Beefcake, I guess. As much as it would pain her to do so, until our holdings get fancy enough that there are other people around to let us know if such-and-such a person is presentable, I guess Lina could promulgate some sort of tie? sock? (I don't know, I never had that sort of roommate situation) rule for our court. I mean, she's not one to fuss about schedules much, so she's not bothered by why she might have to wait, exactly, but there are some things she would hate to walk in on.

Shenanigans. Shenanigans everywhere.

I don't think Signy will be touching any of this with a 10 foot pole. XD

Wise. Very wise.

The wedding ambush tragedy had profound ripple effects. For example it prevented Signy from performing her songs and then getting tipsy and hitting on Kesten again.

@Brental: Does this mean Druids have a way of making glitter?

Of course we do! And it's made of eucalyptus, so it's biodegradable! Fancy and sustainable.

Thanks again, Brental, for crunching through the loot math!

I’ll get on top of it as best as I can from here, for Lina’s share of things. Tracking down oddments of crafting and scroll-scribing, I think the actual gold she has available now is 6 325.95, which squares with my gut feeling for how much more spending I still had to account for. (About 1 000 gp. What can I say? Champagne tastes. XD )

I’ll pencil in the wands and such carried over from Morof onto my character sheet later, so I can remember to use them.

Anyway, if Meneas is putting in orders for us at the trading post, I’ll let him decide whether the armour or cloak Lina’s got on her wishlist is likelier to cross his mind / be listed while he’s leafing through Oleg and Svetlana’s catalogues, or however it works. ;)

Wait, it's up to me? Hm. Could be either.

Random Chance, Cloak 1, Armor 2: 1d2 ⇒ 2

Armor it is.

And Signy still does want that belt of dex the most.

Because it's that time of year again, I'm going to be kind of busy for the next few weeks. I won't get any posts up tomorrow or Tuesday, and there'll be a few more days over the next month that I'll have to take off from posting - more on when those are as they come closer. Sorry about the inconvenience, but holidays and all that.

Are we planning to head out of Limen before we grab our orders?

The mission to check on the kid seems like it might be semi time-sensitive?