Quick question before we head in: do we think it might be a smart idea to get some holy water? My first impulse is to say we probably won't need it, but damn, it's the sort of thing I'd rather have and not need than the other way around.
Grab a few then. Regardless of whether ooc it is optimal, it makes sense IC!
Grab a few then. Regardless of whether ooc it is optimal, it makes sense IC!
Excellent point as usual, Torsten. :)
GM, unless you have a specific reason for not letting this happen "off-camera," can Ril be assumed to have gone somewhere like the Temple of Sarenrae and picked up, let's say 4 vials of holy water?
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That's perfectly fine. XD
Thanks, done.
Hey, what is the preferred protocol for handling readied attacks? Do I preemptively place an attack/damage roll combo in the Gameplay thread, and if the situation triggers it, then it applies?
To save time, it's best to state the trigger (or triggers in the case of a Counterpunch) and preroll the attack/damage.
Yeah, that makes total sense. In case it wasn't clear, my intended trigger was "If something hostile comes into line of sight from the east." But given the attack roll I got, I doubt it'd make much difference. :)
A thought. I think that for any combats we do where we face one opponent, as a standard practice we should have Torsten go first. He has a decent chance of tripping things, and hitting prone targets is easier.
Unless there's a ranged attack involved, of course.
Yup! Torsten’s big weakness is things that are outside of arm’s reach. He doesn’t even have a sling!
I will counter that with the fact that, given either Expert Feint or Aggressive Flanking, having Ril bat leadoff yields a lot of benefits as well.
EDIT: to add, Torsten, that I think Game comment about "unless ranged is involved" is about the fact that if Macaria and I are attacking from range, a prone target is harder to hit.
Macaria can attack from range, or she can just channel, which hits prone targets same as standing ones.
I feel like the end of that fight encapsulated why I don't think Torsten has to automatically go first every time. I'm going to try to explain; apologies in advance if I sound like a lunatic.
I'm sure any of us can provide some meaningful form of "setup" action (I provided my two chief examples above). In addition to that, Torsten also hits like a truck bomb. Let me make this point right here: as a teammate, that is a good thing! My concern is that, if the first thing that happens every fight is "the truck bomb goes off", there will inflate the number of encounters like this one, where Ril got to take no meaningful action.
So bottom line, I'd just prefer if we mixed up the order some. Maybe just let it go in initiative order?
Thanks for listening.
Totally fine! Yeah, go in initiative order and use your exploding fire sword. I'm completely ok with that.
On a related note, since everyone has the HP to survive a couple hits and has demonstrated solid optimization and combat tactics, I think it's safe for me to up the challenge a bit. Tougher enemies = longer combats = more opportunities for everyone to contribute. XD
Also, I'll update Gameplay once I know which path you want to take.
Today's not my day! That's 1/8000 odds.
Crazy odds! Glad that it more or less worked in our favor though. :P
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Have a rules question. Right now Torsten does a move action trip, standard action attack, free action flurry. I plan to keep this action economy and to not full attack (never been a big fan of iterative attacks. Extra typing for missing the target).
Given that he is using a standard attack option, at lvl 7 can he take Vital Strike? And if so, does the vital strike apply to snap kick, standard, and/or flurry?
While he'll probably only have 1d6 or 1d8 damage by then, every extra damage die helps. So figure it would be good to know. :)
My read, FWIW, is that Vital Strike would only apply to the standard attack. AOOs and the free action of Flurry seem to be their own thing, I think? Usual caveats of "What the hell do I know anyway," and "GM has the final say" are in effect, of course. :)
I've struggled with the "should I pick up Vital Strike" question myself. For now I'm saying no, based on the idea that the base dice of all of Yhrrilka's weapons are so small (d3, d4, with the "big gun" being a whole d6), so the additional boost might not be worth the opportunity costs of spending those feats in other ways. I'm figuring the damage boosts provided by Fatal Thrust, Sneak Attack, Studied Target, and Energy Strike ought to be "enough". I sure as hell hope so anyway! :D
None of the above about VS should be construed in any way as me knowing what feats I actually want to pick up, mind you! :D On my spreadsheet full of stuff I'm considering, the list for feats is kind of short.
Weapon Focus (Light Blades): it's not a sexy feat, but +1 with the weapon group that encompasses all the weapons Yhrrilka normally uses is at least worth a look.
Combat Reflexes: there's a couple of Fencing talents that can let one spend AOOs to use them, I know the actual triggering of an attack of opportunity is pretty rare, but this might be a legit use of that many.
Empower Spell, Spell Penetration, Extra Magic Talent: some effort into buffing Ril's magical ability, and opening up the bottleneck she's got for stuff she wants to do (and for the record, Spell Penetration was there before that Searing Blast bounced off this joker!).
But I have no hard and fast plan, which worries the bejeezus out of me (I'm a planner when it comes to characters, I like to know what I'm trying to do).
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I find that planning with gestalt spheres is a losing proposition. There are so many choices that by the time we level up it’s inevitable that I’ll have changed my mind at least once
What I find I'm doing is, instead of having a concrete plan, I'm trying to make sure I have a few likely options. My concern right now is just that that list is a little thin.
A thin list is a good list when there are so many choices. It means that you have an idea of what you want to do and a handful of good options for the next few levels.
Right now I'm thinking the magical feats will probably where my next few picks will go. The SOM talents seem to be holding up Ril's combat capabilities, so this will let me focus on the other side of the figurative house.
Of course, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. A mindset I have to re-learn every level. :D
There's a FAQ about how Vital Strike interacts with SoM somewhere, but the short answer is that Vital Strike can be applied to an "attack action." That makes it ideally suited for SoM as it basically becomes free damage. XD
So in the example listed, Vital Strike would apply to the standard action attack but not to the follow-up flurry strike. It also wouldn't apply to Snap Kick or any other AoO-based attacks. It's just the standard attack action.
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In general, if you're a martial type and have free feats, I recommend taking the Vital Strike tree. SoM adds combo potential and a bunch of interesting combat options but typically won't compare with a full-attack from a damage perspective. Vital Strike (and the follow-up feats) helps balance the scales.
One of the problems in d&d3 and pathfinder is the extreme dependency on full attacks, not only because of the iteratives, but because all buffs that add extra attacks do so only while full attacking. So if you move and standard attack, you got no benefit from TWF, Haste, Blessing of Fervor, etc.
SoM tries to soothe the pain, making a standard attack a bit more viable while keeping full attacks as strong as they were.
Yeah, it's one of the things that I like about SoM. And I think that in the spirit of it, I'll lean heavily into standard attack + move + swift actions.
So, thinking out loud. My monk class gets a total of 15 combat talents, which means that his unarmed attacks max out at 2d6 damage at lvl20. However, I can take extra combat talent as a feat. Taking it 5 times means that his unarmed damage would max out at 2d10, and would hit the next damage die much faster.
This means, my feat plan is:
Lvl 1: Deft Maneuvers (You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing a trip, disarm, dirty trick, feint, reposition, or steal combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks with these combat maneuvers. Now a prerequisite for the relevant greater combat maneuver feats.)
Lvl 3: Weapon Focus Unarmed
Lvl 5: Extra Combat Talent
Lvl 7: Vital Strike
Lvl 9: Extra Combat Talent
Lvl 11: Greater Vital Strike
Lvl 13: Extra Combat Talent
Lvl 15: Extra Combat Talent
Lvl 17: Greater Vital Strike
Lvl 19: Extra Combat Talent
This makes it the first power-attack character I've had which doesn't have furious focus as one of his feats.
Therefore, combat talents come at:
2, 3, 4, 5 (1d6 damage), 6, 7, 8, 9 (1d8 damage), 10, 11, 12, 13 (2d6 damage), 14, 15x2, 16 (2d8 damage), 18, 19x2, 20 (2d10 damage)
And because my design focus for him is to focus as much as possible on being good at just a few things, I think that I'll focus all of these talents onto the Open Hand Sphere. And I'll eventually go for the God Hand legendary talent, so when Torsten kills someone with his unarmed strikes their bodies disintegrate.
Edit: My Open Hand Talent Plan!
Lvl 2: Axe Kick (1.5 Str damage and 2x damage against prone)
Lvl 3: Snap Kick (AOO when tripping)
Lvl 4: Spinning Heel Kick (Cleave-ish)
Lvl 5: Tear Flesh (pure awesome)
Lvl 6: Iron Fist (Ignore 1/2 BaB in hardness for objects)
Lvl 7: Palm Block (move action to reduce damage, useful against enemies that can't be tripped or are really hard to trip)
Lvl 8: Great Trip (better CMB)
Lvl 9: Sliding Heelkick (trip with a charge action)
Lvl 10: Mystic Fists (cold iron and silver damage)
Lvl 11: Perfect Attunement Legendary (Tremorsense)
Lvl 12: Devil's Strike Legendary (full damage to incorporeal with a move action)
Lvl 13: Yoa Strike Legendary (extra threaten range)
Lvl 14: Air Cannon Legendary (his first ranged attack!)
Lvl 15x2: Godhand, Final Judgement Legendary (disintegrate dead enemies and trap their souls for up to week. Can bring them back to life and/or redeem them!)
Lvl 16: Thunderous Punishment (give battered and staggered to someone hit with AOO)
Lvl 18: Shattering Palm (If disarm someone can do a free disarm or sunder)
Lvl 19x2: Grasping Hand, Joint Lock (option to grapple instead of trip and do extra damage when maintaining)
Lvl 20: Soul Punch Legendary (give negative levels with punch)
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With that, Torsten will end up with every legendary talent. And I think that the theme of the ultimate soul punch will work wonders with his magic focus on life sphere. It should be thematically consistent. :)
One more feat I'm strongly considering is Zodiac Tattoos, because holy schnikees that is right in her wheelhouse, and the idea of her skin being enchanted to the point of stopping a crit is kind of humorous (although I can't really think of any compelling armor abilities beyond Fortification).
It’s an awesome feat! Central Torsten’s character. If you take that feat then IC he’d happily help her with the tattoos, getting the places that she can’t reach and adding his magic to hers. I think it’d be quite cool to have the two owners of the tattoo parlor both being protected by their enchanted tattoos.
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It’s an awesome feat! Central Torsten’s character. If you take that feat then IC he’d happily help her with the tattoos, getting the places that she can’t reach and adding his magic to hers. I think it’d be quite cool to have the two owners of the tattoo parlor both being protected by their enchanted tattoos.
I had every intention of discussing that with you (and I am 108% sure Ril will be just about as PITA of a client as that one sailor ("You're doing it wrong. Are you following the pattern we laid out? What are you doing there?")).
You know, I really like the idea behind Ril doing the destructive blast sword strike. Looking at the destruction talents, I think that a few things which would help:
* Focused Blast Type Group
Prerequisite: Destruction sphere.
Benefit: Choose one blast type group. Treat your caster level as 1 higher for this blast type group, increasing by +1 per 5 Hit Dice you possess. This bonus cannot cause you to have a caster level greater than your Hit Dice.
* Focused Blast
When making a destructive blast unaltered by a (blast shape) talent, your destructive blast damage increases by +1 damage per die.
* Searing Blast (blast type, fire)
Your destructive blast deals fire damage using d8 instead of d6 as its damage die.
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At lvl 5, a destructive blast by itself is 3d6+4 damage (14.5 avg). With the above 3 blast talents? It turns into 4d8+8 (24 avg).
That's a huge jump in damage, which only gets more important as levels go up.
Another thing Ril may want to look into is a 1 level dip to get Cha to AC.
I'd recommend a dip into this:
https://magicmanjl.wixsite.com/johnsonfinder/copy-10-of-animist
And spend 500 gold on this:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-modifications/versatile-d esign/
It will make your scimitar into a monk weapon, allowing you to make use of flurry with your scimitar. Therefore, when attacking it will look like this:
Move Action Feint
Swift Action scimitar attack if Feint works
Standard Action scimitar attack with blast
Free Action scimitar attack with flurry
Therefore, at lvl5 Ril will be pretty much on par with Torsten. Torsten has this attack pattern that works only if his trip works, and Ril has it if her Feint works. With the difference being that Ril will probably be hitting like a bigger truck, because her main attack would have a destructive blast behind it.
And defensively? Dex18 Cha18 and Zodiac Tattoos means that she will have the AC needed to hang in any fight. Given that Torsten's Wis to AC is a byproduct of his tattoos bringing out his arcane power, I think that having Ril getting her Cha to AC at the same time would make sense from a story perspective.
As a final note...the dip would also give you Dark Sphere as a bonus. Which I think is cool, because "shadow and flame" is a classic.
Of course these are just suggestions. It’s how I’d make Ril hit harder than Torsten. :)
The bit about, "This bonus cannot cause you to have a caster level greater than your Hit Dice" makes the first one useless to me, as she'll always have (CL = HD). Searing Blast is already in play, and Focused Blast is really nice, but goodness, do I have a long list of magic talents already competing for the spots. But between Elemental Bloodline Arcana, and the Blood Havoc ability (picked up in lieu of the Level 1 Bloodline Ability), I already add +2 to each die. At level 5, I'll do 3d8+6 (avg 19.5) on a normal blast, 5d8+10 (avg 32.5) if I use a spell point, and those values will be as high as they can go. So that end of things is covered.
(Tap Chaos pushes those totals to 4d8+8 (avg 26) or 8d8+16 (avg 52) if I use a spell point, with the caveat that a roll on the wild magic table could make the results vary, well, wildly.)
The monk dip is tricky for me. It's the sort of thing that, sure, it would make her by-the-numbers better. The cost of that, though, is that it starts taking Ril and sort of stretching her out of shape, you know? I have to detour out of the things I think she is, to take levels in something she isn't. I'm hoping that between the Studied Target, additional dice of damage from SA and Fatal Thrust, and the extra dice from Energy Strike, Ril will be able to keep up, or at least not get lapped. :) If, down the line, it looks like I'm not carrying water, I'll revisit the possibility of rebuilding her a bit more.
I have no problem with suggestions, but I have a stubborn tendency to leave figurative money on the table if I can't reconcile a given build option with the way I see the character in my head. As I've analogized before, I'd rather have a car in which I'm comfortable doing 70 on the interstate than a (supercar metaphor here). But the tips for how to wring more HP out of the family roadster always help! :)
And I always have fun theorycrafting. Glad that it wasn’t annoying. :)
No more annoying than I hope I am, walking around the showroom getting my fingers all over parts I'm likely to never buy! :)
Torsten, now I'm curious. When were you planning on taking the Zodiac Tattoos feat, and what enchantments were you planning on picking up? Ril isn't quite ready to pick it up at lvl 5, she's only got 2 ranks invested in Craft right now. Probably 7.
I took the Tattooed Warrior Package
* Bonus Talents:
- Equipment: Unarmed Training (Your deft movements, physical conditioning, and expert use of your chosen weapons allow you to create a protective barrier around yourself as effective as any true suit of armor. When unarmored and unencumbered, you gain a +3 armor bonus to your AC. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 points of base attack bonus you possess. Characters who gain Acrobatics as a class skill may instead choose to have the armor bonus increase by +1 for every 3 ranks in the Acrobatics skill they possess. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when you are flat-footed. You lose these bonuses when you are immobilized or helpless, when you wear any armor, or when you carry a medium or heavy load. These bonuses do not stack with the AC bonus class feature of the monk or similar abilities. This bonus depends on an intricate awareness of the practitioner's body and balance, and as such is lost when the target is under any shapeshift other than blank form, or is polymorphed into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type.)
Bonus Feats: Dragon’s Tattoos (You learn how to adorn yourself with the sacred tattoos that are said to have been first conceived by an ancient monk known only as “the Dragon”. Covering your body in these intricate tattoos etched by your own hand, your limbs, grapples, and unarmed strikes are now treated as masterwork weapons, and may be enhanced just as any other masterwork weapon. Enhancements applied via this ability apply to all unarmed strikes or grapple checks you make, regardless of the limb you choose to use; essentially, your entire body is treated as a single weapon.), Zodiac Tattoos (Covering your body in these intricate tattoos etched by your own hand, you gain the ability to have your skin enchanted with armor special abilities as though it was a suit of +1 leather armor. You cannot have a total bonus of armor special abilities higher than +6. You cannot use this ability to add any armor special abilities that add a flat gp amount to their cost instead of a bonus equivalent.)
Special: Tattooed warriors gain 1 bonus skill point that must be spent on Craft (tattoos) each time they gain a level in any class.
It was seeing that package which gave me the idea on making Torsten in the first place!
I'm not sure what enchantments Torsten will be taking, given that he can add weapon and armor enchantments. Usually I'd say that Brawling is a must have, but it's a +3 enchantment bonus! That's pretty expensive, especially as with ABP our enchantment bonus is increasing with levels. So I don't know if he'd ever be able to afford that +2 hit and damage.
If I ever have the gold, I might go for this:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/magic-armor-and-shield-spe cial-abilities/mind-buttressing/
+2 enchantment cost. The resistance bonus is...worthless, as we'll have that already. But immunity to possession and mental control still makes it worth getting. I'm pretty sure that this group doesn't want Torsten being charmed into attacking his friends. Straight up immunity to some will saves is hard to say no to! It would also leave another +4 worth of abilities that he could get, but I don't think we'll reach the point where we have the gold to worry about that.
Right now it is 8k gold to buy this enchantment. Torsten has until lvl 8 to get it before the price increases to 11k. I think that it is doable to get it before then.
As for his fists? I don't know. Probably Heatseeker. Getting to ignore concealment against living creatures that have a heart means that spells like mirror image, blink, displacement and invisibility become useless against Torsten so long as he knows the square the enemy is in. For what is essentially a martial character that seems like a good idea to me. While he will eventually be able to remove an enemy's buffs by punching them, he will still need to land the punch to do so.
This will cost 6k gold to buy before lvl8, upon which it will go up to 10k. That seems like something which he can arrange for.
Besides for those 2 enchantments, I'm not sure what else would be worth the gold. Most likely Torsten will be saving up for those 2 enchantments, and will then save up for Monk Robes. I also really want to get him a Ring of Sustenance. Because it is just such a useful item to have.
Also competing for my gold is this:
https://aonprd.com/MagicTattooDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Runeward%20Tattoo
With 8 schools of magic, I'd like to eventually get Torsten 8 of these tattoos. 8000 gold for +1 to saves against magic, detect magic at will, and automatically knowing when a spell is cast within 60ft? That also seems like gold well spent, and is really in-character for Torsten to have.
On an unrelated note, I've been reading the Spheres of Might wiki and finding some tasty stuff in the Wrestling sphere. Nothing really suitable to Yhrrilka, but I'm reminded of another character I had that was a Brawler (Mutagenic Mauler). Gods forbid Ril ever falls, I could have her cousin come out of Belkzen looking for her... :)
We all right here? We missing anything to start us off?
My mistake! Thought I posted, so it seems like I held up up.
Just for kicks, I threw every d20 roll Ril's ever made into a spreadsheet. A chi-square test says she's okay, this was really more about not wanting to work. :)
Awesome Hit Movie Idea
Remake Trading Places, but the Duke brothers are two senior Knights of Ozem, Winthorpe is an uptight Iomedan priest, and Valentine is an street smart orc from Urgir.
(Felix sits back and lets the money make itself)
Test for echo. We all good here?
Here! We’re heading into the next section, right?
Sorry about the slight delay; it's QSMA week for me, so things have been hectic. One more day, and then I start Spring Break. XD
I'm waiting to see what the party decides to do before I resolve the Influence check.
Macaria, I'm fairly sure that otyughs aren't generally evil. Gross AF and disease-ridden, sure, and if one's decided it needs to snack on living flesh, hell yeah, put it down. But I don't think they're automatically evil (they are intelligent, though, and could certainly choose to be evil, but it's not the default state). Detect before you smite! The atonement you forestall could be your own!
Bog-standard Bestiary otyughs are TN, have INT 5, and CHA 6. This one may or may not be special, of course.