I already had a servant like that and replaced her with Hans, who works for me now, and Axel is basically under my protection as well, so having the party as my employees is what I am working towards here. If you don't want that as an ambition, that's totally okay. She'll still work towards it, trying to protect them and stuff and be a better leader in her family's eyes. As far as GM hesitancy about one player being in a position of authority... I don't think I have abused that so far, but if you prefer to retcon us back to before we made those decisions, that is your call... let us know and we can try to unravel it.
Her other ambitions are just to impress her family (by growing up and maturing, proving trustworthy and making a name for herself) and secure her right to be the heir. Moving up in her career is part of that... proving she has elven interests in mind, accomplish things on her own rather than asking for help every time something goes wrong. Earning money on her own might be part of that, but honestly, the primary lack here is cash, so I might want to move up to the next level anyway, to get the extra gold.
You're right that both Noble Blood and Luck might be convenient talents, and even Etiquette (Nobles) would be appropriate to her goals, but I'm not sure they are worth it to me with xp so scarce, and having fewer luck points is the part that balances out the higher stats of the character. It makes her just discard impossible things and find another way, which seems to work. This game forces you to run sometimes when you would rather not, to give up quests that you want to do, and that seems to be part of the draw... facing reality, finding another way, admitting that you are scared or sick or weak sometimes.
I also can't see blowing 300 xp trying to get a reroll I am just as likely to fail the next time, when I could spend it on raising the core stats or improving skills to make it less likely to fail the roll in the first place. She'll still jump out of the boat to fight crocodiles when needed. Maybe one day it is going to kill her... and that's okay. That's what heroism is I suppose... fighting and trying to do the right thing, even when you know you might fail.
I can see waiting if I knew I would get more XP before the next time we earn money, but really, Zarine just wants to keep everyone alive, partially to not fail as a leader, but partly just because she likes them and considers them hers (not in a slave way, but a territorial way), so money for armor and weapons comes before etiquette (or trappings) ... not really trying to gain power or influence here, because the only people she wants to impress aren't even in this land... but she does need money and doesn't want to beg from her family, but stand on her own.
Cool on the short term goal, I think you're right that it could be fulfilled. She trusts them. I'll gladly accept the 50 xp.[/ooc]
Character Creation... Huh. I think I added those 5 points to skills instead. Figures. I will try to untangle that after work, and make decisions about whether to move up or not. Thanks for the heads-up.
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I don't think you've been abusing the authority over other players angle either. It just makes me itchy. Your character's relations to each other can be defined as you like even if I'm not 100% on board, of course.
Possible rules correction. My noble's three ranks in Luck cost 100/200/300 for a total of 600 xp. Was very spendy.
Yasha here, Testing out character profile..
please respond if this works.
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It works.
I fixed my mess up with character creation... and the whole thing should be clearer now about what points come from what (had to do that for myself so I could interpret what I did). It might look a little different than before because I moved some things around with regard to whether they were bought with xp or used character creation points. Let me know if you see any other errors, and appreciate your patience with my mistakes.
It looks like you put your character creation advances into Dexterity & also bought 5 advances (10 total Dexterity advances). If that is what happened, the xp-bought advances would be advances 6-10 and would cost 30 each (150 total).
If the goal is just advancing to tier II right now, the xp-bought advances aren't needed. The character creation advances count toward the 5 you need to finish Scion.
Or I'm reading it wrong.
Oh, got it. I didn't think about the character creation boosts counting towards the cost. I thought they just established the starting point or something... but it makes sense, and I think I realized that the first time. I'll go fix it again. Erk. :)
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In my other game we confirmed this point with the devs:
Advances are advances for all purposes once purchased (or obtained). Where they came from is unimportant.
The +5 to characteristics from talents like Suave are not advances at all.
Okay, I am going to use the xp I spent on Dexterity to buy the Noble Blood talent instead... and I guess I'll just go all in and get the Etiquette (Nobles) talent as well. It fits what she needs to learn and her overall goals more this way, even though I think as a player I am more concerned about the money aspect, I am sure that Zarine is more concerned about what she is learning and trying to become what she needs to be to lead her people.
@netherpongo.
does my character look ok?
if so. I am ready to go at any point. just give the word
=)
so excited to meet all of you in character!
Okay, so since we have a high elf coming in, can someone give me a general idea of how the elven groups would interact and the differences in how they are currently perceived by humans?
This is what I am thinking... that the wood elves separated a long time ago from the high elf group (but let me know if it was the other way around), and that the high elves don't really associate with humans, but some of the wood elves do (particularly my group)... I think I read that somewhere, maybe in the overview stuff that Hans shared.
If that is correct, then good as far as it goes, but do high elves and wood elves normally interact, and would my character expect one to act superior or disdainful, or treat wood elves as mongrels? Or do we normally interact in the elven conclaves in the city and get along fine? ... characters are individuals and can buck norms, of course... just trying to get an idea of what fears or expectations there would be upon first encounter.
Would high elves have ever been to a city before, or do they strictly avoid?
i was actually wondering the same thing
however, to be fair my character has been removed from 'proper' high elf society for his entire life. riverfolk all start with low status. It was going to be my assumption that as a scion regardless of lineage Zarine would require/demand a certain level of respect. However being a ferrymans son.. he really wouldnt see her as much different than himself out on the river. just another person on their own personal floating island. kings and queens of all they can see...
so... there is that.
@Zarine by all means check out Calph's profile and read his backstory. That may help give an idea of what she will be looking at when making those rp choices.
although O am still curious about the lore side of things.
I already read it, but my character wouldn't know any of that, and it doesn't explain how your family came to human cities in the first place.
She will only know what the general world is like, and I want to know what the world is like in this regard so she knows how to deal with the situation.
thats fair. =)
@Zarine i found this
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Wood_Elves
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/High_Elves
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Warhammer_World
since this is a homebrew im not sure how much of this has changed for this campaign but it has some really good background stuff.
:)
Unlike their brethren to the west, the attitude of the Wood Elves is in stark contrast to the arrogant nature of the High Elves and Dark Elves. They are a rather humble people, more interested in being left alone in their forest than anything else. They don't preach their superiority over all the races within the Old World, but rather reserve an air of suspicion. They broker little trust with those that live beyond the borders of their realms, and only take action should the fate of their forest come under threat.[1c]
No matter what they might like to think, Elves are not immune to the influence of Chaos; they are untouched by physical mutation, but the power of the Dark Gods has seeped into their souls. Here it fans an arrogance that was legendary even in ancient times. The unconditional compassion that was once the Elves’ defining trait has long since been extinguished, replaced by a belief in their own preeminence that knows no denial.[1c]
This arrogance has manifested differently amongst the Elven races. It has remade the Dark Elves as selfish despoilers of a world they see fit only for their pleasure. To the High Elves, it has made them stubborn and conceited, the self-appointed protectors of a world whose fate lies far beyond their control. Only the Wood Elves reject the lure of bending other lands to their will, for in them, the influence of Chaos has awakened only distrust and isolationism. The folk of Athel Loren crave nothing so much as to be left alone, to tend the groves of their woodland home in peace. Only on those occasions where the fate of the wider world threatens Athel Loren, do they even notice the lands beyond the forest’s eaves.[1c]
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Thanks, yeah, Hans gave me some links for wood elf stuff before, but those are good references to the High Elves as arrogant, so that is a little bit to go on at least.
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I'd also use the High Elf and Wood Elf entries of the Core book on pages 27-29. It has little snippets for how each species should think of each other species. In the case of High Elf/Wood Elf relations, if you get beyond the unkindness in both cases, there's still an apparent sense of distant kinship and a wish that the other side would be 'better'. So you could play off that. Also, the worst of the High Elf opinion is directed to the Asrai (Athel Loren Wood Elves) while the opinion of the Eonir (Laurelorn Wood Elves) is somewhat moderated.
Archives of the Empire I has a 14-ish page section on Laurelorn. Summing it up is difficult, but a long time ago, Laurelorn was a High Elf colony. They only split politically in a final sense after the War of the Beard (a HUGE war the High Elves had with the Dwarves), when the High Elves abandoned their colonies. Laurelorn survived and became a home for refugees from other colonies. So there's a sense of abandonment and betrayal there, distant in time though less so than we might think due to elf longevity. I'd assume that it's so assumed in relations between High Elves and Laurelorn Wood Elves that it wouldn't be explicitly brought up unless the individuals in question were really trying to needle each other.
Laurelorn's society is broken into three strata, with the Toriour being descendants of the original colony settlers, Faniour being descendants of those who came to Laurelorn during the War of the Beard & Harioth being those who arrived after. The Toriour have all the political control. There's a sidebar that says that Toriour can use the High Elf career table while still being Wood Elves, so I'd assume that means that Toriour retain more links to High Elf culture than the lower strata of their society. Though Zarine is a Noble, I wouldn't think she'd necessarily have to be Toriour. If she was from the Faniour social strata, it'd be a case of a banished noble line clinging to their heritage despite the lack of political power back home.
Hopefully something in there helps.
It's already in her backstory that she is cityborn (Toriour)... she is part of the ruling class.
Good information about them being closer to High Elf culture, even though wood elves are also more open to human interaction. Thanks. :)
All good stuff.
I'm a bit lost on the lost cargo ship thing, Axel. The only one I can think of that you might be referring to is the Earl of Harwich, the long-delayed campaign goal. That one was lost hundreds of years ago, though.
If you that, let's just let the question stand. Maybe Axel is just trying for a really long shot? If you meant something else, let me know.
Let's leave that as the extreme long shot. I'm still tired AF from the flu I had a few days ago
While paying for new passage is a pain, getting a new boat later would not hurt for PR
Yeah, I get that. A new crew wouldn't know you revealed yourself and we could probably make our way overland on a super long journey if we wanted to... I just wish I would have known about the extra costs involved before agreeing to deal with this.
Probably would have anyway, I suppose, but there was never any discussion with the captain about him not being totally in on this. Yeah, it might be delaying them a bit but it isn't violating any of the things that he mentioned... it isn't threatening his boat or his crew, and it isn't taking them out of the way (or at least if it was, he didn't say so), so the situation changed from us doing some dirty work that needed to be done, and saving him and his crew from being bothered by angry undead, to suddenly it being our responsibility to "pay" them for allowing us to mess with undead, which we never wanted to do in the first place either.
If you guys want to let the boat go, I am with you. I'll put it in gameplay. I'm sure we can deal with it, and maybe in some ways it will be better. Just delays our ability to kit ourselves out appropriately once again, which is frustrating.
...And sorry for complaining. I just keep starting to get into it and trying to figure out the next challenge, and then being shocked back into feeling like the rules are impossible, punishing you for trying to help rather than rewarding you. But I think it was already clear that I don't really get the "why" of this game, and I agreed to stay and try it again, and I still am.
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WHFRP is... one of those games where you feel like you push uphill, ALL the time. To be fair our DM is light on us while keeping the flavour. If this was a tabletop game it would be better.
As for complaining, nah, I'm just happy you are still playing AND doing a lions share of the interaction, especially as I disappeared for a few days there.
Sorry for the silence the past few days (weeks?) , just started a new job this week
congrats!! always a rough thing but in todays world always a blessing!!
@netherpongo
how does night vision work in this game?
for those that don't have it can they not see at all like in games such as Pathfinder or is it that they have a severely limited range due to things like starlight and moonlight as is similar to 2nd edition d&d low light vision?
I am wondering if the party is carrying things like torches or other sources of light depending on who can see what.
in reference to my question about inside or outside.
sorry about all the editing. still getting used to the post commands.
for those that don't do a lot of camping. Fire friction cords are a simplified type of bow drill. place kindling onto flat surface. sit with heel of foot against kindling. place rope along bottom of heel and pull with a sawing motion to create friction. if wood is small and dry enough it will begin to smoke. blow.. pull in saw motion.. blow.. repeat till poof small flame has appeared. then add other fuel or more wood slowly till you get a good fire going. Dry wood that has pitch or other sappy substance works best for this kind of fire.
learned that you can edit a post that has a dice roll without altering the result. that's cool.
sorry if it seemed like i am jumping the gun with that post. just a little set up so that i could learn the chat commands for the forum. ive never actually pbp here before. please dont take it as me stepping out of turn. getting killed by goats is indeed not funny. <3
GM
Shallya is an old god. (she even has a HUGE temple in Altdorf) Venerated by many who would live along the river and require a goddess of healing, mercy, and protection. While the book does indeed say that she is petitioned primarily by humans it is not unreasonable to pay homage to a goddess of mercy at a time like this. However, that being said. He does venerate Ladrielle as well. Matron of travelers and mists would have been his parents lean. Living among men for so long he has gained the ideal.
"since most of the gods/goddesses wont turn him away or look upon him as unfavored just because he is an elf. Why should he not be allowed to choose who he venerates?"
Thus he has adopted those that would show him the most favor upon the rivers. He isnt an extremely learned man. However his parents showed him much wisdom in learning the things that are closest at hand and not tossing something away just because it is different or "not elven".
"Pa used to say. If we didn't look past our noses just because we were elves. We wouldn't have any passengers but elves. Which, boy, if you cant tell, are not s'common outta this way."
In practice, this just means he lumps her in with the rest of the Cadai and moves on with his life. He may be considered heretical by more learned and 'upstanding' elves. However, since the gods don't grant magic so much as guide fate (according to even the most devout elves). He would argue with any religious scholar about him doing it wrong.
Cadai:
Asuryan The Creator
Isha The Mother
Kurnous The Hunter
Hoeth The Lord of Wisdom
Vaul The Maker
Loec The Shadow Dancer
Lileath The Maiden
Ladrielle The Lady of Mists
Hey all,
Zarine saying that Calph was going to ruin the mission kinda worries me.
Here is why.
Calph will at this point go along with the party if they tell him he is being superstitious. Since he really just wants rescue and has a complete misunderstanding due to his upbringing about anything that is magical or spiritual. Boogey men and the like.
However, I as a player would like to ensure I have the sum of it. The party was asked for help by the undead to free them. The undead were asked how they could be helped and the party was introduced to some river folk. Who agreed that they were missing an island and that raiders were capturing their people. The undead that very same night proceeded to bring the party to the island explaining that their bones were bound.
Now that all being said. I am happy to go with you all no matter what comes next. However, I want to be very very sure, that you guys have not missed that the raider problem and the ghost problem are one and the same.
from what I have read up to this point it seems that the following is true.
Mission A help ghosts, secondary objective: rescue river folk.
Again, Ill go with you wherever. I just want to make sure that if we are going to abandon the undead we are doing it INTENTIONALLY.
Of course they are the same problem, but we know the ghosts were all dead victims and we don't know if the other captured prisoners are all dead already, since we have only seen you, you are the only one that has spoken, and I am still waiting for the other prisoners to speak, which presumably will be some actual information from the DM. Until then, we have to sadly assume you three are the only ones left, although of course we will check.
Your posts are contradicting themselves all over the place. First you want us ... demand actually... that we take the other prisoners back to the boat, and you now are saying don't leave the island? Your character is clearly unhinged, we can't see that you have any additional knowledge that we don't have, and it seems like you are just ranting. We can't trust anything you say. And you very much ARE endangering our mission by yelling and attracting attention. There is no way that Zarine would trust you to go with them at this point.
I also don't understand where some of this in-character paranoia is coming from. We never planned to sneak off, and I didn't ever want to take anyone back to the boat, but now I am rethinking because it seems like either that or lock you all back up. We have been trying to approach in a stealthy way and find a way allow the ghosts access to this island, because we likely need their help. We can't knock out the bad guys alone. I opened the door of this house because OOC I thought it would be good to get you into the party right off, but now I honestly wish I had moved past and scouted elsewhere, leaving the rescue for later. If your character can't understand that we are trying to lay low and keep quiet, then there is no way that you can accompany us.
We aren't abandoning the undead. Where are you getting that?
OOC, In all honesty, I'm not sure how they can help in a fight if thjy have no equipment. his trappings currently consist of his rags. same as the others. If you want to put them back in the box or at the boat till you go about doing other things. He would be open to that (providing she promises to come back for them). They would definitely be a liability going further inland. They are in shock and not going to be much more than targets should a fight break out. I am not sure about the others but Calph certainly wont be much help in a fight. He isn't really skilled in hand to hand and is exhausted x2. He has tried to explain that there is an altar toward the center of town. Though I admit that was all the set up I have been given from the GM.
A little background so that you might understand his mind set a little better.
Sadly yes he is kind of out of his head right now and thus not communicating well. I will correct this. I guess I had expected a little more compassion towards someone who was tortured and a more nurturing approach. "Don't worry". "we got you". "Its ok we are here now". "your safe".
I will adjust and try to get him to be more logical going forward from here. However as I attempt to make this correction, I would please beg you to be patient with him. (at this moment flipping the switch to calm and genial doesn't seem appropriate.)
Going to the boat and leaving the island are two different things. having them sit in the boat while we look for other prisoners and take care of the raiders/cultists is indeed NOT leaving the island. I'm not sure why "going to the boat" and "leaving the island" are the same to Zarine but his intention is to put them at a safe location then continue on without them. I'm sorry for the confusion on that front.
As for paranoia and freaking out. he doesn't feel that she is listening. they need an elf. as far as he knows 1 elf. which is why they haven't killed him yet. now with you here there are two, this terrifies him for several reasons. (some real, some imagined). He is in shock and disbelief. This isn't real yet.
he has no idea who you guys are, what your intentions are. at this moment he feels like he has just walked into a trap. More mind games, more torture. I mean think about it. he has clearly stated that the whole thing that you just happened to be here and have a row boat that can fit more than 6-8 people seems a little off. He has no idea about the undead, river folk or even how you found the island much less them.
I am currently having him try to calm down and be more civil. right now ptsd and shock along with a healthy dose of fear are driving him. that and it seems that Zarine is clearly worried about her mission but not outwardly seeming to care about the people. They are targets as best he can see.
You are correct, He has not done much to earn her trust however, how can he? She hasn't stated anything about what her mission is. How he might help. He, feels that he and the other prisoners were an after thought. She mentioned that she had a mission and so now he is calming down. Mission means plan. Plan means organization and a more defined directive than "lets get the hell out of here".
he wants to help. he would very much be quiet and come along with you stealthily. however, as a newly freed prisoner who is terrified. the party has yet to do anything that would put his mind at ease. (again, he has been adding to the confusion and for that I am sorry. I will attempt to have him be more clear and less of a basket case going forward.)
in reality, Zarine is educated and a natural leader. Just show some compassion, confidence and guide him. He will follow. The thing about him is that he wants to help but isn't much of a planner. He is comming to grips with the grim realization about his escape. He has honestly not thought about anything past getting out of the box. Now that he has... he has no idea what to do and is terrified.
As for abandoning the undead. ooc i was just worried that if you leave the island the undead will be displeased. Sorry if I jumped the gun there I'm not sure what your plan actually is. I will attempt to follow along a little better in the future.
PS. sorry for all the editing. I wanted to make it as clear as possible and as easy to read as possible. Since we have a dialogue open, I want to make sure that I clean up my characters confusion as best I can.
I know he is being unhelpful right this instant but that will pass I assure you.
Thank you for your patience. I know I'm being frustrating, I have sadly seen PTSD in refugees. I forget that this is not something that everyone is capable or trained to deal with.
I will tone it down.
We have been there for only a couple of minutes and you are jumping to a lot of conclusions based solely on us needing to be quiet. I won't post again until we hear from the DM.
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If I might add my 2 coppers?
I'm feeling that Calph wanted to have their moment to RP their experience, add some vermisitude to the evilness of the situation and was hoping we'd play along. That said Zarine isn't wrong in looking at the situation rather the person. As a character Zarine has been while not uncaring (she's helped me out of a big bind) she's not exactly warm and fuzzy either. Heck, she's a Noble, and pretty damn practical.
You are both playing to character... but the respective characters are sparking off each other, and it feels to me both players are coming at this from their respective angles. No one is in the wrong here.
Might I suggest, in the interest of game continuity, that both sides "soften" their position?
Calph can come to themselves, have an epiphany that the situation is very dangerous atm and maybe put the worst of it on a mental shelf to be sorted through later (this may not be the survivor experience but it keeps things flowing).
Zarine can realise that a fellow Elf (even if they are a different sort, ethnically and socially), is going through some stuff and have an epiphany of their own that this might well be a potential ally with an axe to grind against the bad guys and while not "stable" atm, to help them along to the point they can become useful and point them in the right direction?
It might not be 100% "real" but will keep the game moving and give time for RP later.
Sounds fair, and I see your point. I still would prefer more information from the DM before going farther and farther out on a limb based on incomplete information, but I will attempt to soften my stance going forward.
Sorry. I slacked off a bit because I often don't have much to do when character introductions start. Plus some generic laziness.
I sawa question about other prisoners. There are two, an adult male & female. Both are new to the lockup and are in shock. Neither would be a plausible match for the young girl taken from the farm.
Are there other questions?
Are they talking? Can they answer my question about whether there are other prisoners somewhere, or corroborate any part of the elf's story? The elf said they just arrived, but their clothes are tattered and they look malnourished. Is what he said true, and if so, were they being held elsewhere? Where did they come from? Do they know how to take down the boundary magic?
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sick, forgive me. will post when standing no longer = immediately putting head into toilet
Get better Calph!
Is there anything we need to clear up still before we move on? For the NPC captives, you could have them hide outside the settlement as a compromise to taking them away on your rowboat, maybe.