1E, 2E, makes little difference to me as far as this AP goes.
The character and story are not grabbing my attention. Also, no offense to anyone, but we started this combat sequence three months ago. I don't expect that to pick up with the addition of new rules.
That issue seems to broadly encompass every game on these forums, and is a major reason I am moving away from these forums.
Sorry to see you go, Marcianus. I enjoy playing with you, and I liked your character concept here.
GM, Sicaria, Zelicia - understanding that we haven’t made a decision yet… if we continue forward converting to 2E, I’m trying to decide between rebuilding Wolfgang as an Eldritch Trickster rogue, which gives him the Wizard Multiclass Dedication at level 1 but opens the complicated question of how that interacts with the free archetype variant rule, or as a Mastermind rogue with the Wizard Multiclass Dedication as his free archetype dedication feat at level 2. Any thoughts or suggestions? Have any of you played an Eldritch Trickster rogue in 2E? Neither build will give Wolfgang the spammable invisibility he was building towards in 1E, but I could work towards Shadowcaster or Shadowdancer starting at level 8, either of which could make up for it.
Pacing is definitely an issue I need to get better at, but thank you for letting us know, Marcianus! I hope your future endeavors are successful!
Wizard Multiclass Dedication at level 1 but opens the complicated question of how that interacts with the free archetype variant rule
You get the Multiclass Dedication at level 1, and then are stills subject to the typical restrictions (must take 2 more feats from the dedication before you can pick up another), meaning you'd get a free "level 2" feat for your Wizard Multiclass Dedication, effectively moving you one feat further along the Dedication than you'd otherwise be. (EDIT: As there isn't actually a level 2 feat, I'd let you just take Basic Arcana at level 2)
Mastermind with Free Archetype may end up the better option overall if there isn't a worthwhile extra feat.
I've spoken with Zelicia and continuing in 2e is also her preference, especially since she's a big fan of 2e (not so much 1e).
We'll still need to recruit one more player, but I'm much more confident in our ability to pick up an additional 2e character. Speaking of: Are there any players in particular you think I should reach out to? Or should I go to one of the various places to recruit players on the forums here and take somebody that seems the best fit?
Pacing is definitely an issue I need to get better at, but thank you for letting us know, Marcianus! I hope your future endeavors are successful!
Yeah, uh...You know me, GM. You are a close friend of mine, and it is with heartfelt friendship that I say this: If we are to move forward, you and Zelicia NEED to get more consistent on posting, otherwise it'll just be trying to keep a sinking ship afloat. You've been saying that you'll be more consistent for months now, and that just...needs to become true.
Wizard Multiclass Dedication at level 1 but opens the complicated question of how that interacts with the free archetype variant rule
You get the Multiclass Dedication at level 1, and then are stills subject to the typical restrictions (must take 2 more feats from the dedication before you can pick up another), meaning you'd get a free "level 2" feat for your Wizard Multiclass Dedication, effectively moving you one feat further along the Dedication than you'd otherwise be. (EDIT: As there isn't actually a level 2 feat, I'd let you just take Basic Arcana at level 2)
Mastermind with Free Archetype may end up the better option overall if there isn't a worthwhile extra feat.
Thanks for clarying that, GM, that could work. I’ll try building Wolfgang 2.0 that way and see how it compares with the Mastermind version.
I've spoken with Zelicia and continuing in 2e is also her preference, especially since she's a big fan of 2e (not so much 1e).
We'll still need to recruit one more player, but I'm much more confident in our ability to pick up an additional 2e character. Speaking of: Are there any players in particular you think I should reach out to? Or should I go to one of the various places to recruit players on the forums here and take somebody that seems the best fit?
I’ll give it some thought this evening, but my experience with 2E is still pretty limited, so I’m happy to defer to the rest of you.
Hi, all. I don’t know if we’re still considering continuing this AP as a 2E conversion, but if we are and we’re going to recruit one or two new players, I know that can be awkward on an open forum thread. I’ve used Discord chats for this purpose in other PbP games; if that works for you, please join the #hv-recruiting-discussion chat on Tusk the Half Orc's Discord server.
I'll give that a look!
One other thing first: I do believe we're committed to keeping this up in 2e, now. I have set up an app to follow the RSS feed for all of my campaigns and have found that this is much more consistent at keeping PbP on my mind, so I really hope I'll be able to keep up on things now. 2e's combat simply goes for more rounds than an equivalent combat in 1e, so I'll do my best to keep everything moving. I'll talk more about what that means once we decide one more thing about how to continue:
Introducing a new player RIGHT NOW in the AP is.......hard. I can't really come up with a good reason why another Miscreant would just show up to help with the fort, so I'm considering making a simple version of Marc and Zeke and essentially having them be an NPC until we're through this area. Thoughts? Am I worrying too much? Would we prefer to, like, retcon things to make this work? I'm open to suggestions.
GM - re your RSS app, that’s similar to what I do. I have notifications of new posts that pop-up on my phone and iPad by connecting the RSS feed through IFTTT.com. It works, although if too many notifications come through while I’m not available to check, I may miss a few. Definitely better than not getting the notifications at all.
I think running Marc and Zeke as an NPC combo makes sense until we clear the fort. I can’t see a new player wanting to join partway through combat anyway. Hopefully after we've finished off the last of the cute nasty little leshies and their pals, the Miscreants will be able to return to Longacre and can pick up a new member there?
I'm more wondering how we're going to properly do the transition. Like, are we doing it now, in the middle of combat? Are we finishing this combat in 1e THEN switching editions? Etc.
Either works for me. On balance, sooner is probably better than later for Wolfgang, as I think Wolfgang 2.0 is a slight upgrade over the original thanks to Second Edition cantrips. On the other hand, he'll never be able to spam invisibility the way he could have in 1E starting at 4th level.
Also, changing editions in the middle of combat isn't unprecedented.
Pulling back the curtain: Now's actually a decent time to switch editions.
1) The Leshies are gone. Ain't coming back. They saw murder and lured you to the bridge, so they're gone.
2) The people in the room with the bridge controls are going to wait until somebody opens that door to act, so we can technically leave initiative and re-roll as Wolfgang goes to open the door.
I'll work on getting an NPC version of Marc and Zeke.
Remember to build with Free Archetype and Ancesty Paragon.
Unless, of course, y'all want to finish this combat in 1e. I can make that work, too.
Okay, follow-up question: How do you want us to handle what we currently have in equipment?
Let's go with a lump sum of 90gp. I've been going back and forth for a bit on it and that's what sounds best to me, due to the lack of worthwhile level 1 items.
EDIT: As for current equipment, try to have your new equipment match your old equipment. For example, Sicaria, you are able to have two sawtooth sabers, even though they're uncommon, because you character already owns them. It just doesn't convert well so we'll start again from "scratch".
That...seems like a lot. The rules (based on this table) recommends a lump sum of 30 gp for a brand new 2nd-level character. Granted, we've been level 2 for a bit, so that's probably higher (to include an additional 2nd-level item each, so about an additional 30 gp into the lump sum for 60 gp).
Sorry if I'm backseat-GMing here, just that 90 gp lump sum seems like a lot to me.
That...seems like a lot. The rules (based on this table) recommends a lump sum of 30 gp for a brand new 2nd-level character. Granted, we've been level 2 for a bit, so that's probably higher (to include an additional 2nd-level item each, so about an additional 30 gp into the lump sum for 60 gp).
Sorry if I'm backseat-GMing here, just that 90 gp lump sum seems like a lot to me.
But we’re level 3 (recommended starting WBL is 75gp), and partway towards level 4 (starting WBL of 140gp). Without knowing for sure how close we are to level 4, setting it at 90 seems like a reasonable compromise to me.
Facepalm We’re level 3! I’m dumb! Please ignore me!
From my cursory tracking, it seems you were a bit above the level 3 baseline in 1e, so I decided to go a bit above the level 3 baseline here too. After all, evil pays well! ;)
Let me know when you're all ready to go.
Aside: I've been talking with Zelicia's character, and we're still trying to decide which archetype fits best. Any suggestions?
(Another aside: If you want an archetype that just doesn't have enough feats (or starts a bit late), I'll throw in an exception to the "must pick 2 more feats" part of dedication feats on an individual case (message me or post here, either works). The same goes for access [Sicaria can totally do Red Mantis Assassin]. The same ALSO goes for some requirements that I find a bit restricting [for example, Loremaster's Etude requires the Enigma Muse, but I feel it's a bit too restricting like that. This is the one that'll need the most whim on my end, but I tend to err on the side of the players, as 2e errs on the side of monsters in a lot of places as the rules are written. I've found the math is tight enough that a re-roll / +1 here and there really doesn't change much other than player versatility.])
Alright, I updated Sicaria to 2e. With it I decided to finalize something I was going back-and-forth on with the character upon reflection: Sicaria’s non-binary.
That being said, Sicaria will keep using she/her pronouns, because 1) I’ve been referring to the character as “she” this whole time and habits are hard to break, and 2) research into the matter (since me be straight white cismale and didn’t know this inherently) shows that some non-binary people actually do opt to use gendered pronouns, and I believe Sicaria would still refer to herself as such, even if only out of habit.
From my cursory tracking, it seems you were a bit above the level 3 baseline in 1e, so I decided to go a bit above the level 3 baseline here too. After all, evil pays well! ;)
Let me know when you're all ready to go.
Aside: I've been talking with Zelicia's character, and we're still trying to decide which archetype fits best. Any suggestions?
(Another aside: If you want an archetype that just doesn't have enough feats (or starts a bit late), I'll throw in an exception to the "must pick 2 more feats" part of dedication feats on an individual case (message me or post here, either works). The same goes for access [Sicaria can totally do Red Mantis Assassin]. The same ALSO goes for some requirements that I find a bit restricting [for example, Loremaster's Etude requires the Enigma Muse, but I feel it's a bit too restricting like that. This is the one that'll need the most whim on my end, but I tend to err on the side of the players, as 2e errs on the side of monsters in a lot of places as the rules are written. I've found the math is tight enough that a re-roll / +1 here and there really doesn't change much other than player versatility.])
Thanks, GM. Wolfgang 2.0 is a relatively simple conversion (Eldritch Trickster Rogue with the Wizard Multiclass Archetype); he's behind Wolfgang 1.0 in his spellcasting, but the cantrips are better and he gets to wear armor, which makes up for a lot. I'm working through the equipment - I don't think he'll be able to afford a bag of holding (75gp by itself), but that shouldn't be a big problem.
Have you and Zelicia looked at the Shadowcaster archetype? The focus spells are interesting, and may be as close as anything to the vanish ability her 1E archetype provided.
I guess that leads to a related question: Zelicia, have you decided on your patron/spellcasting tradition? Because although the most direct conversion for Wolfgang is to multiclass in Wizard, if you're planning to pick a patron that gives you the arcane spell list, I could tweak Wolfgang's ability scores to boost Charisma and have him take the Bard dedication instead of Wizard, so we'd have access to three of the four spellcasting traditions. It would be a pretty big personality change for him, though, to go from an 8 Cha to any positive number.
Alright, I updated Sicaria to 2e. With it I decided to finalize something I was going back-and-forth on with the character upon reflection: Sicaria’s non-binary.
That being said, Sicaria will keep using she/her pronouns, because 1) I’ve been referring to the character as “she” this whole time and habits are hard to break, and 2) research into the matter (since me be straight white cismale and didn’t know this inherently) shows that some non-binary people actually do opt to use gendered pronouns, and I believe Sicaria would still refer to herself as such, even if only out of habit.
Thanks for telling us more about Sicaria, and I wouldn't have known about the pronouns, either.
I think I'm about done with Wolfgang's conversion - comments, questions, criticisms are welcome. The statblock is up on Wolfgang's profile page, and here's a link to a PDF of the character sheet with all the details.
I think I'm about done with Wolfgang's conversion - comments, questions, criticisms are welcome. The statblock is up on Wolfgang's profile page, and here's a link to a PDF of the character sheet with all the details.
Two notes: 1) How are you an expert in three skills (Celestial Lore, Stealth, and Thievery) at level 3? I thought you only got a skill increase every level after 1st. 2) Infernal is still an uncommon language, even in Cheliax. The GM could just allow us to take it, which is fair, but just a note.
I think I'm about done with Wolfgang's conversion - comments, questions, criticisms are welcome. The statblock is up on Wolfgang's profile page, and here's a link to a PDF of the character sheet with all the details.Two notes: 1) How are you an expert in three skills (Celestial Lore, Stealth, and Thievery) at level 3? I thought you only got a skill increase every level after 1st. 2) Infernal is still an uncommon language, even in Cheliax. The GM could just allow us to take it, which is fair, but just a note.
Celestial Lore comes from the Additional Lore feat, so it was boosted to Expert automatically at level 3. I went with this Lore because in 1E Wolfgang had a trait bonus to Knowledge (Planes) which made it his best Knowledge skill, and this was the only way I could see to replicate that mechanic.
Infernal is uncommon, but as I understand it, it is prevalent in Cheliax (per the LO World Guide) and humans from Cheliax have access to it. Per the CRB, humans know Common and "Additional languages equal to 1 + your Intelligence modifier (if it’s positive). Choose from the list of common languages and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region)." HeroLab agrees - I realize that isn't definitive, but it does corroborate the way I was reading the rules. Finally, Wolfgang spoke Infernal in PF1, so I figured it made sense for him to speak it in PF2 if he can. I can certainly swap it out for something else if I'm wrong.
Looking back at Wolfgang's 1E languages, though, makes me realize that I should have taken Halfling and Orcish in 2E instead of Jotun and Sylvan, so I'll switch those out (regardless of the GM's ruling on Infernal).
Additional Lore gives expert! Didn’t account for that.
Re: languages: I was aware of the “language prevalent to the region” clause (after all, Sicaria now has Shadowtongue, the Nidalese ethnic language), but I didn’t notice Infernal being listed in the World Guide as being prevalent in the region, so that does make sense. That said, I still stand by the ruling I made opposite to that in our Hell’s Rebels game, since Kintargo is a lot more counter to traditional Chelish lifestyles that are prevalent in the Chelish heartland (where Longacre is). I’m probably not going to give Sicaria 2e Infernal, though, since she’s originally from Molthune (though Shadowtongue isn’t really prevalent in Molthune, despite it being a neighbor to Nidal, so *shrug*)
I'm really not picky about languages as a DM. Take what makes sense for your character.
As for my end, I had a busy week so I didn't get much time to convert stuff to 2e, but this week shouldn't be as busy, so I should be able to make significant progress on that front.
On another note: I haven't started recruiting yet, either, as I don't quite know when we'll want to adopt another player. I'll start recruiting when it makes sense to add that character, but there's at least one combat between us and them (especially considering Wolfgang is still on the other side of the knocked out bridge)
Okay, I’m frustrated. It’s been over a month since anyone posted here, and exactly two months since anyone posted in Gameplay. I’m upset because we’ve been saying that we’ll continue this, but then no one has been doing anything, myself included. Frankly, I despise uncertainties, so we need to talk: what is the plan for this campaign? If we’re planning on continuing in 2e, I want to see actual action rather than a simple “We’ll get it done.” If we’re not continuing, then I want to see this campaign get deactivated. I don’t want empty promises, I want a definitive answer. I want to continue, don’t get me wrong, but I’d also rather we decide this campaign is over than to just leave it up in the air and ambiguous. I want an answer, and I want to see action to that answer.
I've honestly been stalling, hoping for a fan conversion of the AP because I've recently learned making NPCs is one of my least favorite parts of 2e. I don't think I'll have the motivation to convert it myself at this point, so it's probably dead....I don't want to admit it, but I honestly can't see myself actually taking the time to convert enemies without loathing it before every combat...