Wrath of the Righteous for Paladins (Inactive)

Game Master trawets71

If we communicate well Seamus can use the LoH for 'Holy Shield' instead of PoF when we need more defense. I just haven't used it a lot because it costs twice as much and everyone has to be adjacent.

It might also be helpful if Ian could use Rally more often, since that is only a swift action. The ability to roll twice and take the better on a save (like Mythic Bless gives as Dadna was considering) is fantastic, and Rally is even better in some ways (you can choose to use it after you see the roll, although it doesn't last as long).

I need to remember to Smite more often. Leothar should be Smiting every round, given his ability to use Mythic Power to recharge Smites. But the swift/immediate action economy is quite tough - only my PFS cavalier had as many competing options there.

I see. That’s not bad, but do you have advice on a better option?

Mythic Divine Favor allows you to apply the luck bonus to skill checks and saving throws in addition to attack and weapon damage rolls, as well as allowing you to cast Divine Favor on someone else.

It might also be helpful if Ian could use Rally more often, since that is only a swift action.

Between not remembering it and not being sure when a roll is critical it would help is someone throws up hint that they can use help :)

Rally is not an immediate action, so you can't use it after a save is called for. It's a swift you use on your turn, before we know a save is needed.

So if an enemy has a particularly dangerous aura/gaze/etc and we'll all be making saves, it might make sense to keep Rally going each round after you have Bastion of Good established (as a swift action, it competes with Bastion of Good and self-LoH).

I mean, sure, in hindsight, "That nabasu has a level-draining area-effect attack, let's keep Rally up!" - but that's hindsight.

Divine favor is good and all…but one target as a standard is not really desirable. Plus everyone can already cast it. I’ll stick to bless. Even if the only effect is an effective Reroll, that is still quite powerful.

Haven't been able to level up Fley yet, but here's a general premise of what he'll take:

-Dual Enhancement (if allowed. If not, then will take Combat Reflexes)

-Mythic Path - Defensive Move

-8 skills

Heading out of town this weekend, but will update Fley sometime this weekend for sure.

Haven't been able to level up Fley yet, but here's a general premise of what he'll take:

-Dual Enhancement (if allowed. If not, then will take Combat Reflexes)

I am good with that for you.

@GM - would either the Minor Miracle or Deific Obedience feats be allowed?

I will allow them though if you are chasing spells for AC I would recommend you think about that. It is going to get to the point where you get hit. Higher CR monsters just don't miss AC. Most of your enemies so far have to roll well to hit you. I think you have only faced one that could hit you often and that was due to smite good. My 2 cents. If you want them take them.

Everyone, if your deity lists alternate spells on Archive of Nethys feel free to use them if you want.

Leothar wrote:

@GM - would either the Minor Miracle or Deific Obedience feats be allowed?

I will allow them though if you are chasing spells for AC I would recommend you think about that. It is going to get to the point where you get hit. Higher CR monsters just don't miss AC.

I don't know how much Mythic changes things, but in base PF1, AC is absolutely an effective defense if you work on it, even against higher-CR monsters.

A melee brute usually has an attack bonus around double its CR. A CR 11 Cloud Giant attacks at +22 for example. So if you were level 9 (when you might expect to face such a foe), then AC 33 would mean you only get hit by the primary attack half the time. And it would stop an even higher percentage of iteratives or Power Attacks.

My Strange Aeons bloodrager (now at level 15) generally has been able to keep his AC a relevant defense, and that is with Automatic Bonus Progression limiting his gear. (And while still dealing excellent damage.) He usually has AC around 40 in combat; not invulnerable, but most foes need to roll well to hit him. AC of 25+level is my usual benchmark of "great".
Mythic Dodge allowing a +10 vs one attack can really help, although I think I want to boost Dex before taking Dodge so I don't lose the feat while Enlarged.

Again, I don't know if Mythic makes my prior experience irrelevant.

I've never really played much at the higher levels, but my understanding has always been at the higher CRs you are going to get hit. The few times I've played at those levels that seems to be the case.

Everyone, if your deity lists alternate spells on Archive of Nethys feel free to use them if you want.

I wish - Yuelral would probably have had some nice ones for a Paladin, but that would have required them to expand on her beyond just a short write up in Inner Sea Gods.

@DM Trawets, that's certainly the conventional wisdom on the boards, though I think it mistaken based on my own experience at high levels.

The conventional wisdom does become correct if the GM just arbitrarily boosts monsters' attack rolls to compensate for your AC, in which case defense becomes a pointless treadmill. I think many GMs do that if they feel the defense has gotten too good (which is why I don't aim for 'enemies need a 20 to hit' but more like 'enemies need a 14+ to hit').

Here's what Leothar might hypothetically have at level 9 if we prep for one round (maybe as we close for melee):

Base 10
Armor +12 (+3 Fullplate?)
Dex +1
Shield +5 (Ian having used Holy Shield during prep round)
Deflection +4 vs smite target, +2 vs other foes (Ring +2?)
Sacred +2 (Shared Defense from Anton during prep round)

So that's 34 vs the Smite target, 32 vs others. -2 if Enlarged. Not bad. A potion of Barkskin or an Amulet of Natural Armor could boost it higher (though I don't want to lose the Swarmbane Clasp given Deskari's portfolio of vermin). Could use Divine Bond for Defending. Maybe at higher levels look for mithral armor and boost Dex.

It does depend on being adjacent to Ian and within 10' of Anton. But that Holy Shield bonus is huge; if Ian found it too troublesome to do, then I might look to take Minor Miracle to cast Shield 1/day.

I, for one, fully plan on taking a ring of force shield (+2 shield AC for 8,500 gp. It's a free action to turn on and off, and she can hold her weapon in one hand. So it's turn off, attack, turn on. Thematically it's a force shield that fades out when attacking, which makes sense. Technically, someone could do a readied attack to avoid the force shield, but that's a risk well worth taking).

I suppose that an Abjuration Cloak of the Hedge Mage would work as well...2,500 gold for 1/day Shield.

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As we get our deity spells, it looks like I get this one:

Dwarven Veil
"This spell enhances the target’s dwarven or dwarf-like qualities, making it appear more attractive, personable, and worthy of respect and admiration by dwarves. The target is still recognizable as itself. The target gains a +2 circumstance bonus to checks to influence dwarves (such as Diplomacy, Intimidate, and so on)."

A lvl 2 spell, lasting 10 min/lvl. Which means that around lvl 9 I could have it as 24 hr duration. Don't think that I'd get much use out of it in this campaign though. :P

As for everyone one of us, we get access to this feat:

Pantheistic Blessing

Prerequisites: Wis 13, must worship a pantheon of deities.

Benefit: When taking this feat, select a pantheon from the list below. You gain the listed spell-like ability for your selected pantheon, usable once per day. If the granted spell allows a saving throw, the DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier.

Special: If you act out of line with the tenets of your pantheon’s beliefs, you lose the ability to cast the granted spell-like ability until you have received an atonement for your transgression (as a cleric restoring lost class abilities).

Iomoadae: 1/day divine favor
Torag/Bolka: 1/day crafter's fortune
Yuelral: 1/day identify
Tanagaar: 1/day protection from evil

It's....not very good. A precious feat for 1/day lvl 1 spell? I wouldn't do it. But the option is there.

I am not arbitraily boosting stats to overcome AC, but you know stats have been boosted. How did that chimera feel? Was it suitably mythic or should I have thrown advanced onto it as? There are some rebuilds out there for the BBEG in this AP as many have felt they are too weak against the PCs.

Bolka, you are close on my intent but not there. I am referring to the Unique Spell rules section on AoN. It adds specific spells to certain deities worshipers' spell lists. I was not opening up anything other than those spells and the unique summon rules. I would certainly consider anything listed in the deity entries on AoN for those gods but on a case by case basis. I know those with gods outside the core don't have as many options there.

I think that the Chimera was good as it was. The breath weapon seriously messed us up, and if it rolled better we could have had one or more of us go down. As a game of dice, things can swing both ways quite quickly.

And ah...I didn't even know that there was a unique spell rules section. Will have to take a look.

Leothar wrote:

@GM - would either the Minor Miracle or Deific Obedience feats be allowed?

I will allow them though if you are chasing spells for AC I would recommend you think about that. It is going to get to the point where you get hit. Higher CR monsters just don't miss AC. Most of your enemies so far have to roll well to hit you. I think you have only faced one that could hit you often and that was due to smite good. My 2 cents. If you want them take them.

Everyone, if your deity lists alternate spells on Archive of Nethys feel free to use them if you want.

I was semi-aware of that, but another reason I was looking at Ironskin was mainly so it can "nope" an inopportune crit. (Plus, if I'm being honest, 2nd-level Pally spells look a little blah, unless I'm missing something.)

Ironskin is a duergar spell which is why it is out.

I kinda feel the same way about the paladin spell list in general which is why I like the Tempered Champion archetype, trades spells for some of the fighter only feats and warpriest weapon damage. Though since the only spells the group has are paladin ones mainly I see the need for it more in this game. I would say resist energy and remove paralysis are handy and the str or cha ones if you don't have an enhancing item can buff.

Yeah, Remove Paralysis was kind of there as the "If I have to..." option. The equivalent of eating my 2nd-level-spell vegetables.

Huh, never knew that about Ironskin. TIL

Another option: maybe Inheritor's Smite, which is an Iomedan spell, but I have to decide if it's worth doing.

I thought the Chimera was good and challenging.

The Advanced template is a pretty serious boost to monsters - that +4 AC especially. I don't really think it's necessary. Increasing HP is sufficient for now.

I really dislike the optimization arms race (sorry if I implied that was going on here - it is not - but it is something you see in some high-level PF1 games). Sure, I could optimize harder with Leothar's offense, and you could then boost the enemy's AC. I much prefer to use restraint in my character build to keep the game challenging, and I prefer needing to rely on teamwork instead of being able to just power through everything. But because it is not my goal to one-round every foe, I do wish to have sufficient defenses to weather a couple rounds of enemy attacks.

As to 2nd-level paladin spells, there are some non-Core spells that, if allowed, would give us ranged options that we generally lack. There is Arrow of Law but not Spear of Purity? Odd I always thought of Paladins as slightly more Good than Lawful. But Arrow of Law would be good against demons.

I thought the Chimera was at a good point as well. A time may come when you have to add the Advanced template onto creatures, but as it stands, I don't think we're there yet. That fight could easily have gone the other way if the dice had been luckier for you.

Generally speaking, while usually the party wants to spread out a bit in combat to avoid AoEs, with Ian's Bastion of Good and Holy Shield, tactically, it may be in our best interests to stay close together. If the GM allows, we could look into the possibility of all getting Shake It Off.

Not a bad idea. Sadly, my feats are all spoken for. Paladins just don't get that much!

However, I do like that there is finally a situation where keeping a tight formation makes sense. It's really rare in pathfinder, but it feels 'right' for a medieval type setting.

I think scattering to avoid AoE effects usually does more harm than good. ​Fireball has a pretty big radius, and if you are too far apart to be caught, then you are too far apart to help each other with things like Breath of Life or a potion down the throat.

I have several fighters with Shake it Off and/or Lastwall Phalanx; two of them have Solo Tactics and so try to be adjacent to as many allies as possible all the time. One of the fighters is actually a Helpful Halfling Rog/Ftr with Bodyguard, so even more reason to be adjacent to allies. In my experience fighting in a tight formation it is more the rule than the exception.

A Ring of Evasion is a good investment anyway (although at Tier 5 we get a similar ability against non-Mythic foes).

So the Chimera was scary enough, thank you very much.

Hard to get more iconic than a shield wall. The fact that only one of us actually has a shield just makes it a magical world :)

Ian has a semi free feat selection at level 9 I would be willing to consider a teamwork feat instead of improved crit if it would assist a few of us.

Ok so you have a mystery here at the crypt you can try and figure out or there is a bridge that needs taken care of. You can also rest out the rest of the day and secure the south side of the riverbed as that is all your territory now as is Paradise Hill.

What is the next step?

Here is Fley's level up! Sorry it took so long

* +6 HP, +2 CON, +4 mythic. Total: 10 + 6d10 (base) + 12 (CON), + 5 (gift) + 8 (trickster) = 71 hp. I had missed that taking a mythic level in Trickster gave Fley 4 extra HP each level so now accounting for that. 1 negative level so at 66 hp total now.

* 8 skills (4 base + 3 INT + 1 FCB)
-Acrobatics
-Disable Device
-Knowledge (nature)
-Knowledge (planes)
-Knowledge (religion) x2
-Perception
-Stealth

* 2 background skills
-Sleight of Hand
-Handle Animal

* Mythic Path Ability: Defensive Move

* Mythic Ability: Amazing Initiative

* Tier 2 ASI: +2 CHA

* Feat: Dual Enhancement

* Class ability: Stalk Evil vs undead

* Spells:
-2nd level: Zone of Truth

If you want to ID the beasts you will need to lay eyes on them and it is a Kn: Arcanca. I will let you know that there is a climb check involved to go up or down the sides of the riverbank. The roadway of the bridge is lower than the sides and watchtowers, both are open.

I was assuming we could use the levitate scales on he sides of the riverbank, So what's the plan folks?

Sorry for the delay. The kids are home now and things may not run as fast as I would like until the new year.

Hey DM Trawets, we get it RL has to come first, especially when it's a couple of kids home for Christmas break :)

So the beasts are in the valley, and the guards are on the bridge itself. Initially I thought the guards in the middle of the bridge were in the valley as well.

So do we kill the guys at the front of the bridge and then jump over? Or slide down past them or slide down far away and try to sneak up? Um, Ian's not good at sneaking, he can't even run faster than a dwarf so...

LoH Ian: 52 + 11 + 3d6 ⇒ 52 + 11 + (6, 6, 3) = 78

It seems I may have causes a little confusion. Ian was down 58 points so at 28. If I interpret your post right you rolled healing 15 hp. + the 11 hp. ardriel rolled. So Ian's at 54 hp presently. If no one else is able to help he will roll what LoH he can on his way to the pit.

Ah, I see. So he is now at 54. I am down to 2x lay on hands, which I'd like to save for the combat. I think that with your LoH and potions, you can get back up to fighting shape.

Healer's Hands: 1d20 + 17 ⇒ (5) + 17 = 22
Poor roll...only heals 7HP, so up to 61

So how is everyone doing?

Tired from dragging four children along into a vacation. Picking up with work now, but am more than happy to continue this game when everyone else is ready.

Pretty scary when you gotta go back to work to rest from your vacation :)

3 month old, 3 year old, 9 year old, 11 year old. Love drives and an amusement park? Sitting back at my desk is indeed far more relaxing. :P

Doing well here - flying for the first time in two years, bringing the kids (6 and 3).

I will be ready when the GM is back. Holidays can be a crazy time.

Just spent 3 hours shoveling snow, then my car got stuck in a snow bank and spent an hour trying to dig it out. Crazy amount of snow here. Most we've had in years.

I'm around and ready to start up when the GM is.

I'm around. The wife blew up the desk top and that has had consequences. I was waiting on a reply to Fley using a potion before it blew up up. All my documents were on there. I haven't recovered yet. I intend to get things moving soon. Sorry for the delay.

Ouch, nothing like having your device and notes ruined to slow things down. Take whatever time you need DM Trawets. I'm just glad it's computer trouble not something with the boys.

Was waiting to see what the others wanted to do, if they wanted to stick close together or if they wanted Fley to scout ahead.

Hope you manage to recover everything. We're in no rush here.

Lets just stick together.

Well that was anti climatic. They had to beat a DC 24 strength check and each one passed had a 25% cumulative chance of collapse.

Just so I don't misunderstand, the party moved towards the bridge, were seen, the monsters did their job, meaning the dice were with them and they pulled the bridge down.

So is there anything left to attack? Also, is there anyway to get across the ravine and attack the city?

Same question. Trying to think of what to do. It seems like we need a new way in?

I assume we still have to fight the beasts and the overseers, and then solve the missing bridge problem.

The beasts are not even wounded and there may be people alive in the rubble

Sorry for the delay - I got my booster over the weekend and then today at work has been busy as heck. Catching up now.

Is there a valid target for my attack to move to? We can drop the bonus from Mythic PBS if they're out of range.