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Level 1 stats:
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 21
Wis 12
Cha 8
Race: Elf (+2 spell penetration)
School: Evocation (Admixture)
Banning: Enchantment and Necromancy
Arcane Bond: Familiar (Compsognathus)
Traits: Warrior of Old and Magical Lineage (Fireball)
Feats
Wizard: Scribe Scroll (and Alertness)
Level 1: Spell Focus (Evocation)
Level 3: Rime Spell
Level 5: Preferred Spell (Fireball)
Bonus 5: Heighten Spell
Level 7: Spell Penetration
Level 9: Dazing Spell
Bonus 10: Selective Spell
Level 11: Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
Level 13: Quicken Spell
Level 15: Spell Perfection (Fireball)
Bonus 15: Intensified Spell
Level 17: Greater Spell Penetration
Level 19: Focused Spell
Bonus 20: Lingering Spell
Play this character as a Treantmonk “God” Wizard. Major difference? You can spontaneously turn any of your prepared spells into a fireball. …but not just any fireball; the “God” fireball. Rime Spell is a great metamagic to start down the path of the “God” fireball user. You can add it to fireball without level adjustment, thanks to Magical Lineage. (Spontaneously cast fireball, admixture to cold descriptor, spontaneously add Rime) All targets become entangled, so long as they take damage. So they’re entangled even if they make the save! (Unless they have evasion)
Once you reach level 9, you gain quintessential metamagic of the “God” fireball user: Dazing Spell. If your dazing spell successfully hits its target, they’re as good as dead.
At level 15, your fireball goes up another notch in power. Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, and Spell Penetration are all doubled in power for fireball. Eventually bonuses from Greater Spell Penetration and Focused Spell will be doubled. …and don’t forget the main ability! Tack on Dazing Spell or Quicken Spell for free! You could sacrifice a 5th level spell for a quickened dazing fireball! Nice. Or a 3rd level spell for a quickened rime fireball. Or a 6th level spell for an intensified focused selective rime dazing fireball. Great options.
Softening: Who says a blast spell can’t soften up opponents? With Rime Spell, entangled foes take a penalty to reflex saves. (Remember, they’re entangled regardless of making the save!) So a rime fireball can be a nice setup for a dazing fireball.
Knowledge: Knowledge checks will be important; make sure you know a monster's strengths and weaknesses and admixture accordingly.
Spell Resistance: Use other spells if you can help it. But if you need to, you actually should have a decent success rate with your "God" fireball. As an elf, you have a built in +2 to caster level checks to overcome SR. Thanks to feats, you have +4 at level 7, +6 at level 15, and +10 at level 17. Also consider carrying a piercing spell rod.
Rough for all wizards. You should be halfway decent with a longbow at this point.
Early game (Levels 5 through 8)
And here’s fireball! Ideally, you’ll admixture many of your fireballs to cold to apply rime.
Mid Game (Levels 9 through 14)
And dazing spell makes its appearance. A well placed dazing fireball ends fights.
Late Game (Levels 15 and up)
Spell Perfection kicks in, allowing you to dominate without wasting your high level spells.
I'm hoping to run this build in my next campaign, so...
Thoughts? Advice? Criticism? Do you believe in 'The "God" Fireball'?
INT:21???
18 + 2 racial + 1 for middle age. Only a little cheesy. xD
Ran it past my GM, he's fine with it.
Replace Warrior of Old with Wayang Spell Hunter.
Is Heighten Spell a prerequisite for any of the feats? It doesn't do any good at level 5.
Replace Warrior of Old with Wayang Spell Hunter.
Is Heighten Spell a prerequisite for any of the feats? It doesn't do any good at level 5.
I think it's a prereq for preferred spell, but I could be wrong.
Pop 1 level of Crossblooded Sorc (Orc/Draconic) for+2 damageperdice when you cast your prefferred energy. Now you do massive damage as well.
Also the Advanced Race guide lets an elf wiz give up arcane bond to spont cast a spell per level. Should save you some feats.
Tattooed Crossblooded sorc dip gets you the familiar back.
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Here is a similar build for reference, focusing on damage rather than Rime/Dazing. Still an admixture fireball wizard, but check out the sweet one level dip into sorcerer.
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Works .... Until you realize most of your party is in the blast radius 90% of the time.
Burning Arc is more controllable.
Fire Sneeze while slightly disturbing, allows for longer duration control.
Elemental Aura if you really want to lock the enemy down and don't mind using a few defensive spells to stay alive.
Works .... Until you realize most of your party is in the blast radius 90% of the time.
Burning Arc is more controllable.
Fire Sneeze while slightly disturbing, allows for longer duration control.
Elemental Aura if you really want to lock the enemy down and don't mind using a few defensive spells to stay alive.
That's what selective spell is for, besides, his build is not a 100% blaster, he is control AND blasting if is viable.
I like it, in my opinion, you should switch selective spell with spell penetration, selective seems to be able to help more at early levels and not many monsters have SR early on (that's what I've heard), plus like you have said, picking other spells that ignore SR also help.
Wayang Spell Hunter, Varisian Tattoo, Orc Bloodline, Fire Sneeze, and Burning Arc are all from non-core stuff, right? Are they at least pathfinder society legal? I might be able to convince my GM if it is.
Even so, I'm not really digging the 1 level dip into Sorc. It's not exactly the point of the build. Although that damage is quite impressive. (I think I'd go for Silver Dragon instead of Gold, oddly enough.)
My feats aren't in a particularly smooth order, but they are there for a reason; Heighten Spell is a prereq for Preferred Spell and Selective Spell cannot be taken until level 10.
Heh. I was going to challenge your interpretation of Treatmonk's God wizard, until I saw the part about the dazing fireball. That can be a good battlefield control option, right there. And it's certainly fitting with the theme, so long as all of the feats and options that you're taking don't cost you too much flexibility to be able to perform the other functions a Treantmonk God wizard should do (buffing, debuffing, and summoning in addition to battlefield control).
Wayang Spell Hunter, Varisian Tattoo, Orc Bloodline, Fire Sneeze, and Burning Arc are all from non-core stuff, right? Are they at least pathfinder society legal? I might be able to convince my GM if it is.
Even so, I'm not really digging the 1 level dip into Sorc. It's not exactly the point of the build. Although that damage is quite impressive. (I think I'd go for Silver Dragon instead of Gold, oddly enough.)
My feats aren't in a particularly smooth order, but they are there for a reason; Heighten Spell is a prereq for Preferred Spell and Selective Spell cannot be taken until level 10.
Orc Bloodline is legal, as is Varisian Tattoo. If you utilize PFS rules instead of RAW, you lose the Middle Age stat mod, but you essentially replace Scribe Scroll with whatever you want (PFS replaces Scribe Scroll with either a Metamagic or Spell Focus). Honestly, I was surprised to not see Spell Specialization, which you could then afford at level 1 (you tag it to BH or MM, switch to Scorching Ray at 4th, then Fireball at 6th)
I heavily, HEAVILY recommend the 1 level Sorc dip for Crossblooded Orc/Draconic. Gold/Red/Silver/White are the most common choices here (Silver/White if you want to make the spell Cold damage frequently, more likely Gold/Red). The flat damage bonus is extremely good.
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This is what I've been talking about!
An awesome blaster with god elements mixed in makes for a more powerful character than a sole blaster or sole god-wizard alone.
Is it possible to make a Druid with the Fire domain into anything similar?
Replace Warrior of Old with Wayang Spell Hunter.
Huh, just checked this out. Does that stack with Magical Lineage? I think it would; they're not bonuses. Seems extra cheesy. xD
This is what I've been talking about!
An awesome blaster with god elements mixed in makes for a more powerful character than a sole blaster or sole god-wizard alone.
Alright! Whenever something is between powerful and broken, Ravingdork is sure to be on the scene. xD
lol, really, thanks. I've been mulling over this build for a while and it looks like something good has come of it.
Is it possible to make a Druid with the Fire domain into anything similar?
There are a few issues with doing it with a druid:
You don't have admixture - This is huge. It means you can only do fire damage, and considering fire resistance is the most common of all resistances, this can be limiting. Also, no Rime spell on your fireball.
You don't have the knowledge checks - Not a terribly big deal, as someone else in the party can make the check, or you could "cheat" in the sense you, the player, know something about a creature that you, your character, shouldn't.
Less feats than a Wizard - Not essential, but they will be missed.
So... You could pull it off, but your fireball will be less versatile. (Less "God"ly!)
I suppose you could build around Flame Strike then. :) Half of it is Holy.
And is there an Admixture Sorcerer? If so, you could do crossblooded for the damage boost and the switch-element thing.
Good build, but doesn't change the fact Fireball is a weak baseline spell to do this all with. Energy resists, SR, doesn't avoid allies...because it's instantaneous it becomes similar to the "save and nothing happens" type spells like save or dies. You can add tons of feats and such to overcome these weaknesses, as you have. Or...you could just start off with a better spell and have more room for other feats and class features you want. If your sole goal is to turn fireball into a good spell, then this build works quite fine. But why would you build a character for the purpose of validating one spell?
Well, I just want to blast, preferably as a Druid. If I could make like 4 different blast spells that awesome, I would. :)
I admit that what I envision, and what the game system delivers, aren't usually the same. I always struggle with "what I enjoy" vs "what is effective" in 3.x or Pathfinder.
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If you utilize PFS rules instead of RAW, you lose the Middle Age stat mod, but you essentially replace Scribe Scroll with whatever you want (PFS replaces Scribe Scroll with either a Metamagic or Spell Focus).
Of course, if he goes PFS he'll lose a ton of stats as well. This is a 41 point build right now. I'm assuming he rolled well on his stats.
This is what I've been talking about!
An awesome blaster with god elements mixed in makes for a more powerful character than a sole blaster or sole god-wizard alone.
Maybe I've been hinting at this for a while but I'd like to see your ideas on this.
While Fireball certainly is a decent spell at higher levels it starts to lose it's punch. To me Chain Lightning is a better spell when you finally get it. The increased damage and selective targeting make this a much better spell. It only gets better when coupled with Spell Perfection.
I've been looking around for a Blaster guide but have yet to find one.
Intensify Spell (IIRC) is the best feat for your buck on this - increase damage caps? YES PLEASE!
Although you could get pretty evil if/when you hit 13th and pick up delayed blast fireball.
Lesser Selective Metamagic Rods are your bread and butter to prevent unintentional incineration of one's allies.
Best use of Wayang is Burning Arc, Magical Lineage for fire ball.
1 to not hit allies, 1 for area
No need for Selective spell.
Could this be done with the Elf - take the new racial feature from ARG to get free spont spells (burning Arc, fireball and friends) by not getting arcane bond.
Tattooed Sorc. gives you the familiar back.
Opinions?
Crap. Elf thing doesn't work.
Here's my take
Tattooed, Orc/Draconic Sorc1 Orc Subtype, +1 Damage, Touch of Rage, Claws, +1 Electric Spells, Spell Focus: Evocation, Spell Specialisation, Varisian Tattoo
Wiz1 Familiar, Evoker, Scribe Scroll, Intense Spells, Versatile Evocation
Wiz2 Extra Traits: Loreseeker, Birthmark or Entangling Spell,
Wiz3
Wiz4 Heighten Spell
Wiz5 Preferred Spell (Fireball)
Wiz6 Empower Spell
Wiz7
Wiz8 Elemental Manipulation, Intensify Spell Wiz9
Wiz10 Dazing Spell, Improved Familiar
Wiz11
Wiz12 Spell Penetration
Wiz13
Wiz14 Spell Perfection (Fireball)
Wiz15 Quicken Spell
Wiz16 Gtr Spell Penetration
Wiz17
Wiz18 Feat
Wiz19
This dude has a similar theme but with tje sorc.dip does HEAPS more damage with Cold spells.
You have to pick between entangling or the extra trait for Loreseeker. Usually I'd pick loreseeker but it's a campaign trait so a dm may not allow it.
Now personally. Splitting Wayang and Magical Lineage on 2 spells is better because Burning Arc doesn't hit allies and Fireball has better coverage. Between the 2 you have area sorted so no need.for selective spell. (Though a rod doesn't hurt)
I always forget to remember this. xD
Normally, heighten is a somewhat underwhelming metamagic, but in this build it isn't so bad. (Might as well use it since it's a prereq!) Not only does it increase the DC of the spell, but it also increases the duration of entangled from Rime or dazed from Dazing.
...
EDIT: Thought I should clarify this:
I only brought up PFS rules as a means of showing my GM that the rules are at least generally accepted by pathfinder players somewhere. Usually, we play out of Core, APG, UM, and UC. That's about it. Then some house rules, especially in stat generation. >_>
I think that Spell Specialization and Greater Spell Specialization would work for you drop highten spell and the stuff it preqs.
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Is a Heightened Dazing Fireball in a 7th level slot a 4th level or 7th level spell for the purpose of saving throws? I've never heard this debate resolved. The way heighten is written, I'm tempted to think 7th level. Also: how does heighten interact with Magical Lineage? Would casting a Heightened Fireball from a level 3 spell slot result in a 4th level saving throw?
I would say it depends on the sequence in which you apply the metamagic feats. You are allowed to apply feats in any order you want.
If you apply the Dazing Spell first, and then Heighten Spell, the spell would be +3 for both saving throw and spell slot.An example.
The Fireball.
If you apply Dazing Spell first, it becomes a 6th level spell, then you apply the Heighten Spell, and the saving throw DC is as if it is a 6th level spell (or higher if you want). The daze period stays as 3 rounds.
Now if you apply the Heighten Spell first, you gain nothing unless to raise the spell level to 4 or higher, so a Heighten Fireball 4th level would become a 7th level spell when Dazing Spell were applied, having a saving throw as a 4th level spell, but having 4 rounds of daze.
I believe this to be RAW. I'm quite certain of the first part. There is nothing that stops you from applying a Heighten Spell to a spell without raising the level. You could take a 3rd level spell and "raise" the spell to 3, just as you could take a Dazing Fireball spell (6th level) and raise it to 7th level, and thus gain a +4 on the saving throw for a 1 spell level increase.
I'm not as certain about the second part, because that depends entirely on the interpretation of "original spell".
Also, a Magical Lineage does interact with Heighten Spell. Why should that be the only metamagic feat it does not interact with? And the feat states that "A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal", this means just that. It does not mean that it has to be cast as a higher spell level, it means that it has a higher spell level, so metamagic reducers (which are pretty much always banned in my games BTW) does lower the spell slot required to cast it. A Heighten Fireball level 5 with Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter, cast as a 3rd level spell, but gets the DC from a 5th level spell.
Some other shenanigans you can do with these, you probably know these, but here goes.
Produce Flame, a 1st level Druid spell, coupled with Dazing Spell and the metamagic reducers, and it is a 2nd level spell. Now this lets you attack a number of creatures a round as you have attacks, unfortunately it requires a touch attack (ranged or melee), and Dazing gives you a save versus the daze effect. Will save though. Now you can quicken this spell with a simple lesser Rod of Quicken Spell, and use all your attacks for the round (unfortunately Rapid Shot does not allow you to get an extra attack AFAIK). This might not look as effective as a Fireball or Burning Arc, but it does allow you to get an awful lot of balls of flame (1 per level), and it also lets you attack the same target over and over, practically ensuring the daze effect, which, unfortunately, only last for a round. You could still stun-lock the BBEG quite effectively, while dealing a little damage on the side.
You could make a 1 level dib in Admixture, get Rime Spell, and then everyone that you hit, that isn't immune to frost damage, is entangled. Not all that effective, but you can do it.
Another fun one is the Flaming Sphere.
Again with the reducers, this is a 3rd level spell, so it can be quickened with a lesser rod. If you are a conjurer with the subschool of teleportation, you can move around the battlefield with a swift action that doesn't provoke AoOs, move the sphere with a move action, and cast spells with a standard action.
You can also sprinkle some Acadamae Graduate on top, so now your Summon Monster spells only take a standard action (you might become fatigued, so, Oh no! You can't run when you are fatigued! And you become exhausted if you fail twice, Oh noes! You now move at half speed! You also get a bit of penalty to the Dex, still a bargain).
Also, elves can get more teleportations a day with their favourite class option. They can dimension door as a swift action around 13 times a day, for 20ft at level 8.
A fun PrC for this one is the Bloatmage. His biggest drawback is that he cannot move, Conjuration/Teleportation fixes that, and now he has something to do with that move action.
Forget fireball, use Snapdragon Fireworks.
Edit: wouldn't work with your admixture school though but still worth considering. You could use Elemental Spell.
If Tiefling is allowed, you can throw in a couple of levels of diabolist, allowing you to make your fireballs Hellfire. With the Evil descriptor, you can take the tiefling trait (gah cant remember the name) that gives +1 CL.
I believe it was clarified by James Jacobs that Heighten should always be applied first. Why? Because some people were trying to cheese the rules. They said that a Maximised Fireball (a 6th level spell) with Heighten (to 7th) would use up a 7th level slot, and have Saves as a 7th level slot.
He clarified that the Spell is only being Heightened by 1 level, so it's got a 4th level Save, but a 7th level slot.
Come 17th level, you could cast a Fireball Heightened to 9th level and with Spell Perfection cast it out of a 3rd level Slot. Or Fireball Heightened to 6th and Dazing out of a 6th level Slot. If you have Wayang Spell Hunter and Magical Lineage, it would be out of a 4th level Slot.
If your GM allows it, you could also use Magical Lineage and Spell Perfection to Heighten your Fireball to 9th for free with Spell Perfection and use Magical Lineage to add Rhime Spell while you Admixture it to cold. Now the save DC is as a 9th level spell and it entangles for 9 rounds. You might even be able to get a 3rd level Fireball Heightened to 9th with Rhime and Intensified tacked on if you use Spell Perfection, Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter.
I'm liking the love this build gives to Fireball.
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Tels: People actually tried that with Heighten Spell? Even I'm not that cheesy!
Tels: People actually tried that with Heighten Spell? Even I'm not that cheesy!
Ya, there was a minor blow up about it a while back. I thought it was rather dumb myself. Just people trying to get extra cheese out of their spells.
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Tels: People actually tried that with Heighten Spell? Even I'm not that cheesy!Ya, there was a minor blow up about it a while back. I thought it was rather dumb myself. Just people trying to get extra cheese out of their spells.
I myself genuinely didn't know, it was always rather ambiguous in its wording to me so I'm happy to see a clarification from JJ.
I'd reccomend you consider something similar with Ball Lightning. One casting and you'll have 3-5 balls all controllable as a move action, all capable of damaging and dazing foes while you continue to cast spells. Its like having a 3-5 armed surgeon instead of someone with a great big hammer.
Also, Elemental Focus and Greater Elemental Focus also double their benefits when used with Spell Perfection and for a little extra cheese and a lot of extra damage, do that 1 level dip of Orc/Dragon Crossblooded Sorcerer to kick things off.
This is what I've been talking about!
An awesome blaster with god elements mixed in makes for a more powerful character than a sole blaster or sole god-wizard alone.
Maybe I've been hinting at this for a while but I'd like to see your ideas on this.
While Fireball certainly is a decent spell at higher levels it starts to lose it's punch. To me Chain Lightning is a better spell when you finally get it. The increased damage and selective targeting make this a much better spell. It only gets better when coupled with Spell Perfection.
I've been looking around for a Blaster guide but have yet to find one.
Yes, if you're going for pure AoE damage and control, you're not going to do better than a round 1 Quickened Chain Lighting back-to-back with a Dazing Chain Lightning at a DC that's 3 higher than Fireball... still like Ball Lightning more for its duration and versatility though.
I was under the impression that Fire Snake was the best Blast or AOE/Control spell because it's inherently shapeable.
[Edit] Opps, wondering mouse and accidental click.
Anyway, one could tack on Daze/Rhime to a Fire Snake and target only those you wish to. A nasty combo would be to Admixture Cold then add Rhime and Lingering Spell then box the guy in so if he wants to move, he has to move through multiple paths of the Fire Snake forcing him to make a save each time and take damage.
For instance:
O = Open Square
E = Enemy
F = Fire Snake
C = Caster
A = Ally
X = Enemy being hit with a Fire Snake
[E][F][F][F][O]
[O][X][A][X][F]
[O][O][O][A][F]
[F][F][F][F][F]
[C][O][O][O][O]
The Caster is in the bottom left, and because of the path chosen, any of the the Enemies on the board have to move through the Fire Snake to get to him. The ones already being affected by the Fire Snake have to leave the area, and re-enter it. If you had just surrounded them in the Fire Snake, they would still be in the area. By forcing them to move through empty squares, you're making them take damage and a save again.
Half-Orc 1st level Cross-blooded Sorcerer (Orc & Primal Elemental Air) / 19th level Wizard (Evocation - Admixture)
Traits:
Magical Lineage (Chain Lightning)
Reactionary
Feats:
1st Spell Focus (Evocation)
2nd Scribe Scroll
3rd Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
5th Elemental Focus (Electricity)
6th Greater Spell Focus (Electricity)
7th Spell Penetration
9th Greater Spell Penetration
11th Intensified Spell
11th Dazing Spell
13th Quicken Spell
15th Spell Perfection: Chain Lightning
16th Maximized Spell
17th ---
19th ---
So at 15th level you can open combat with a Quickened Chain Lightning that deals 15d6+37 damage (90 average w/o save) and then a Dazing Intensified Chain Lightning that deals 20d6+47 damage (117 average w/o save) and anyone who fails a Reflex save is Dazed for 6 rounds. The DC is 10 + 6 (spell level) + 8 (doubled Focuses x4) + INT mod, let's say 6 = DC 30... and at higher levels Reflex saves aren't that great. To put that into perspective, a CR 15 Cruciadaemon would need to roll an 18, a CR 15 Mature Adult Red Dragon would need to roll a 19 and a CR 15 Colossal Black Scorpion would need to roll a 20. Rolls to penetrate Spell Resistance gain a +8 bonus as well.
At 16th level you could Maximize instead of Daze and simply kill everything rather than bothering with Dazing them.
Now THAT'S a 'God Spell'.
But you can't pull off that Chain Lightning very many times. The build above can apply Heighten Spell first for free, and, if he changes his traits to Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, he could reduce the cost of Daze to only a +1 increase. So he can use all his 4th, 5th, 6th 7th, 8th and 9th slots if desired, while Chain Lightning is limited to 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level slots. In addition, he could Heighten for free and using Wayang and Spellhunter, add Rhime and Intensfy Spell for free as well, while casting out of a 3rd level slot.
As for accuracy, if he uses a free Heightened, plus Dazing and Selective spell with the Wayang and Magical Lineage traits, it still only takes up a 5th level slot.
So using Fireball allows him to cast more spells than Chain Lightning.
Edit] Also, a natural 20 always makes the save. All creatures have a 5% chance of passing any save, no matter the DC.
But you can't pull off that Chain Lightning very many times. The build above can apply Heighten Spell first for free, and, if he changes his traits to Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, he could reduce the cost of Daze to only a +1 increase. So he can use all his 4th, 5th, 6th 7th, 8th and 9th slots if desired, while Chain Lightning is limited to 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level slots. In addition, he could Heighten for free and using Wayang and Spellhunter, add Rhime and Intensfy Spell for free as well, while casting out of a 3rd level slot.
As for accuracy, if he uses a free Heightened, plus Dazing and Selective spell with the Wayang and Magical Lineage traits, it still only takes up a 5th level slot.
So using Fireball allows him to cast more spells than Chain Lightning.
Edit] Also, a natural 20 always makes the save. All creatures have a 5% chance of passing any save, no matter the DC.
Adjusted for Edit.
How many times would he really need to cast the spell? At 16th level he could pull it off at least 8 or 9 times a day... and then he can sit back and let the rest of the party clean up afterwards. Meanwhile fewer feats are required to get there - he won't have room for Selective and Preferred, etc. if he wants to get his bonuses for Elemental Focus...
What was it Tony Stark said about preferring the weapon you only need to fire once..?
But you can't pull off that Chain Lightning very many times. The build above can apply Heighten Spell first for free, and, if he changes his traits to Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, he could reduce the cost of Daze to only a +1 increase. So he can use all his 4th, 5th, 6th 7th, 8th and 9th slots if desired, while Chain Lightning is limited to 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level slots. In addition, he could Heighten for free and using Wayang and Spellhunter, add Rhime and Intensfy Spell for free as well, while casting out of a 3rd level slot.
As for accuracy, if he uses a free Heightened, plus Dazing and Selective spell with the Wayang and Magical Lineage traits, it still only takes up a 5th level slot.
So using Fireball allows him to cast more spells than Chain Lightning.
Edit] Also, a natural 20 always makes the save. All creatures have a 5% chance of passing any save, no matter the DC.
Adjusted for Edit.
How many times would he really need to cast the spell? At 16th level he could pull it off at least 8 or 9 times a day... and then he can sit back and let the rest of the party clean up afterwards. Meanwhile fewer feats are required to get there - he won't have room for Selective and Preferred, etc. if he wants to get his bonuses for Elemental Focus...
I'm not sure I really want to be using my 8th and 9th level slots for Chain Lightning when there are such other good choices. 7th level I could see, but even using all 6th level slots isn't a good idea in my eyes. Where as the Fireball expert could be using 3rd, 4th and 5th level slots instead without really negatively impacting his over-all spell casting potential.
I'm not sure I really want to be using my 8th and 9th level slots for Chain Lightning when there are such other good choices. 7th level I could see, but even using all 6th level slots isn't a good idea in my eyes. Where as the Fireball expert could be using 3rd, 4th and 5th level slots instead without really negatively impacting his over-all spell casting potential.But you can't pull off that Chain Lightning very many times. The build above can apply Heighten Spell first for free, and, if he changes his traits to Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, he could reduce the cost of Daze to only a +1 increase. So he can use all his 4th, 5th, 6th 7th, 8th and 9th slots if desired, while Chain Lightning is limited to 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level slots. In addition, he could Heighten for free and using Wayang and Spellhunter, add Rhime and Intensfy Spell for free as well, while casting out of a 3rd level slot.
As for accuracy, if he uses a free Heightened, plus Dazing and Selective spell with the Wayang and Magical Lineage traits, it still only takes up a 5th level slot.
So using Fireball allows him to cast more spells than Chain Lightning.
Edit] Also, a natural 20 always makes the save. All creatures have a 5% chance of passing any save, no matter the DC.
Adjusted for Edit.
How many times would he really need to cast the spell? At 16th level he could pull it off at least 8 or 9 times a day... and then he can sit back and let the rest of the party clean up afterwards. Meanwhile fewer feats are required to get there - he won't have room for Selective and Preferred, etc. if he wants to get his bonuses for Elemental Focus...
That's a fair point, even though 'killing everything in the room during the first round' is a pretty good use for ANY spell slot in my opinion. To back your position up a bit more, the fireball build is more useful and usable earlier on - the build I presented would be more ideal for high level play only.
He's really going to need to get those DC's up though.
That's a fair point, even though 'killing everything in the room during the first round' is a pretty good use for ANY spell slot in my opinion. To back your position up a bit more, the fireball build is more useful and usable earlier on - the build I presented would be more ideal for high level play...I'm not sure I really want to be using my 8th and 9th level slots for Chain Lightning when there are such other good choices. 7th level I could see, but even using all 6th level slots isn't a good idea in my eyes. Where as the Fireball expert could be using 3rd, 4th and 5th level slots instead without really negatively impacting his over-all spell casting potential.But you can't pull off that Chain Lightning very many times. The build above can apply Heighten Spell first for free, and, if he changes his traits to Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, he could reduce the cost of Daze to only a +1 increase. So he can use all his 4th, 5th, 6th 7th, 8th and 9th slots if desired, while Chain Lightning is limited to 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level slots. In addition, he could Heighten for free and using Wayang and Spellhunter, add Rhime and Intensfy Spell for free as well, while casting out of a 3rd level slot.
As for accuracy, if he uses a free Heightened, plus Dazing and Selective spell with the Wayang and Magical Lineage traits, it still only takes up a 5th level slot.
So using Fireball allows him to cast more spells than Chain Lightning.
Edit] Also, a natural 20 always makes the save. All creatures have a 5% chance of passing any save, no matter the DC.
Adjusted for Edit.
How many times would he really need to cast the spell? At 16th level he could pull it off at least 8 or 9 times a day... and then he can sit back and let the rest of the party clean up afterwards. Meanwhile fewer feats are required to get there - he won't have room for Selective and Preferred, etc. if he wants to get his bonuses for Elemental Focus...
Lol, I was in the middle of an Edit to say almost exactly the same thing about having access early on.
I'm also not sure if Elemental Focus feats are really worth it unless you want to bank everything on being vulnerable to your Element. Not only that, you're essentially turning the Blast into a Save or Suck spell. True, it's a Reflex Save or Suck, but at the same time, I also like Rime Spell because as long as it deals damage, it works. Only people with Evasion will be able to defeat it, and only with a successful save. Even Improved Evasion doesn't work if they fail the save.
...That's a fair point, even though 'killing everything in the room during the first round' is a pretty good use for ANY spell slot in my opinion. To back your position up a bit more, the fireball build is more useful and usable earlier on - the build I presented would be moreI'm not sure I really want to be using my 8th and 9th level slots for Chain Lightning when there are such other good choices. 7th level I could see, but even using all 6th level slots isn't a good idea in my eyes. Where as the Fireball expert could be using 3rd, 4th and 5th level slots instead without really negatively impacting his over-all spell casting potential.But you can't pull off that Chain Lightning very many times. The build above can apply Heighten Spell first for free, and, if he changes his traits to Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, he could reduce the cost of Daze to only a +1 increase. So he can use all his 4th, 5th, 6th 7th, 8th and 9th slots if desired, while Chain Lightning is limited to 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level slots. In addition, he could Heighten for free and using Wayang and Spellhunter, add Rhime and Intensfy Spell for free as well, while casting out of a 3rd level slot.
As for accuracy, if he uses a free Heightened, plus Dazing and Selective spell with the Wayang and Magical Lineage traits, it still only takes up a 5th level slot.
So using Fireball allows him to cast more spells than Chain Lightning.
Edit] Also, a natural 20 always makes the save. All creatures have a 5% chance of passing any save, no matter the DC.
Adjusted for Edit.
How many times would he really need to cast the spell? At 16th level he could pull it off at least 8 or 9 times a day... and then he can sit back and let the rest of the party clean up afterwards. Meanwhile fewer feats are required to get there - he won't have room for Selective and Preferred, etc. if he wants to get his bonuses for Elemental Focus...
The point is simply that the Elemental Focus feats, combined with Spell Perfection, grant you an additional +4 DC vs. Reflex saves. That's freaking HUGE, especially if you are hoping to land the Dazing effect as well.
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Chain Lightning is 6th level and Quicken is +4 levels, Spell Perfection won't work with that. And it's really not that good, anyway.
Best dazing spells are ball lightning, aqueous orb, flaming sphere, stone call, and snapdragon fireworks (needs heighten spell to last long enough, though) . First 3 are reflex save or lose, and thus my favorites.
Dazing Cloudkill (with a pit spell first to keep it from moving) or Black Tentacles (assuming the dazing "hits" each round) would also be delicious.
EDIT: Missed Magical Lineage, oops. Still, not worth a 6th level slot when spells lower level daze better.
Haha, glad to see this thread rise from the grave to stalk the land once more. ;)
I love this creation! And despite others ideas on how to do it "right" my build still seems to withstand scrutiny; fireball is not entirely trumped by some spell that does everything better in every way. I may be sentimentally attached to the spell, but not beyond reason. Other spells are interesting, but I still think fireball is the best one.
I still stand behind being a single-classed wizard; as amazing as the cross-blooded dip may be, it doesn't suit my purposes. (It's supposed to be more on the "God" and less on the blast.) I don't want to be a level behind my whole career. My build benefits from a maxed caster level and getting those new spell levels ASAP.
That's not to say that I don't want people questioning this build and trying to come up with their own version of the "God" blast wizard. I hope people find what they like best and go with it!
EDIT:
Now THAT'S a 'God Spell'.
I hate to quibble over semantics, but its important to the discussion.
My goal is not to create a 'God Spell' as in making the most powerful spell that can possibly be cast. My goal is to make a "God" wizard as defined by Treantmonk; a wizard that alters the game state to put the odds heavily in favor of the party. Battlefield control and buffing may trump this neat fireball trick I built into my "God" wizard.
I aim to always have a fireball in reserve that can help turn the odds to the party's favor. Ideally, after entangled by rime or dazed by dazing, the rest of the party will clean up what's left. Or it may never come up in the battle in favor of some other way to contribute to the combat.
As for the build you submitted, I'd be dismayed that it doesn't even make use of Magical Lineage/Dazing until level 15. It also skips the amazing flexibility of never preparing a blast; you don't have Preferred Spell or Greater Spell Specialization. My build starts doing its trick at level 5, with a rime fireball, and then a dazing fireball at level 9 and then culminates at level 15. If I started a campaign at level 15, I may very well choose a different spell, but that's how a lot of things go. The build is interesting, but doesn't seem practical for a campaign from level 1 to level x (Many characters never even make it to level 15, I'm sad to say.)
Dot.