Unrelated: GM - I am looking at character planning and have a question. This is way down the line but will inform since of my near term decisions.
Is it possible to delay a level triggered feat selection?
Kineticist gets expanded element at 7, if I take air I can fly with the right utility powers (air cushion and wings of air). I would like to delay my level 6 feat to level 7 and take extra wild talent. That would let me take air cushion at 7 and wings of air at 8. Otherwise I have to wait to get wings of air until I take extra talent a 9. Makes minor changes to the leveling plan.
Either way is fine... Just with level 3 coming at some point in the future wanted to start figuring out the plan.
I think you're thinking of 3.5, mate. In Pathfinder you get feats at every odd numbered level, not every 3.
Oh. Dang. I have made that mistake twice in a couple of months now. Okay. Nevermind then. Expanded element and extra wild talent on 7 it is. Fly on 8
Went looking for this to make sure of the items available for my shopping, as a reminder to anyone else that wants to participate in commerce with our loot, where is a link to where the GM shared the inventory of Grok's shop...took me a while to dig through the pages to find.
Kehlysch is going to sell his normal dagger back for half-price (1 gp), then buy:
1 Masterwork Dagger, 302 gp
1 Scroll of Scorching Ray, 50 gp
1 Scroll of Summon Swarm, 50 gp
1 Scroll of Magic Missile, 25 gp
1 scroll box, 5 gp, 1 lb.
That should use up his share of the loot from Man's Promise, as well as the most of the little coin he got from his share of the cache of stuff in the bilges of the Wormwood.
BTW, questions for the party:
How many of the cure potions did you want to carry?
Who is wearing/using the Handy Haversack?
I think either Tamesis or Buhayra was carrying the Haversack, unless Kel opted to.
As for potions, Tamesis will carry one, unless she has the pack, in which case she'll just carry whatever is in there.
Sven has a potion of haste! And a romantic interest! Sorry Baolus and Kehylsch. Try not to be too jealous when Sven has Mighty babies who grow up to be even mightier warriors.
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For the night, how are we seeing this mutiny going down? We’ve got some helpful NPCs, so I’m thinking that when one of them has night watch we make our move.
It's probably going to end up with everyone dead...lol
Well, I WAS gonna explain it in character, but...
1. Tammy casts Keep Watch on everyone, so we can stay up late. (I had planned on using those scrolls to sneak around, but never really got a chance)
2. We wait until like midnight, when everyone is asleep.
3. Baolus picks the lock on the trapdoor between the cook's cabin and captain's cabin.
4. Sven goes up the ladder first. We saw Owlbear get taken in there, so he might be standing guard. And Sven made friend with him.
5. We capture Plugg.
6. We sneak over to the officers' quarters and capture Scourge.
7. We hold a public execution in the morning.
I’m not for taking them alive or holding trials. I’m for slitting their throats while they sleep. Or bringing a two handed hammer down on their heads. Their only authority is based out of fear. There are no laws to break out here. So we kill them and tell the crew that they work for us until we reach port; at which point they can choose to leave if they want.
Aside from that I love your plan
Doing the public execution allows us to show the new crew that we're not f%+%ing around. Just like that guy who got killed our first night on the Wormwood. It's a show of power, to keep them from revolting right off the bat.
I get that. I’m just afraid that being Nonlethal could get us killed. If we were lvl3 I’d be more inclined to showboat. Plus... telling the sailors that we will set them free should be more effective than making them fear us.
If we get them while they're asleep, we should be at less of a risk. Especially with that iron rope. Bind their wrists with that and say the command word, no way to escape.
I get the concern, though. We shouldn't have any trouble with Plugg, since he'll be alone. Getting to Scourge with the others around might be more difficult, but I have faith in us.
To the point about telling them that we'll set them free, I do agree. But I think what's even more effective is to make them fear us AND tell them they can go free once we reach port.
Edit: I also want to humiliate them before we kill them, just for the added satisfaction.
I’m sold! If we get the first we use the iron rope. Public execution. For the second, we do whatever is most effective and safest at the time.
Do we have a perfect knowledge of the ship already? I appreciate the info that GM freely gives us to RP with, but do we already know IC about the trapdoor from the kitchen to the captain's quarters?
Don't want to take too much advantage of the meta-knowledge.
Kel and Madiya both went over to do some investigating, and Tammy snuck into the Captain's cabin, so it's not too far of a stretch, I'd think...
Of course, GM can prove me wrong, if he wants.
That's a great plan you've got there. It's be a shame if someone...ruined it entirely.
Like, y'know, the dice roller.
I'm fine with you using the information I give you. If there's something you don't need to know, I'll withhold it. I did edit it, already, a little.
To be honest I believe we should wait at least a couple more days. We have in the Man's Promise a skeleton crew, which I believe is barely enough to handle the ship. At the moment, we have 21 members of the crew to work on the ship (8 Rahadoumi sailors, 7 former Wormwood crewmembers, 6 PCs) plus 4 others (Scourge, Plugg, Kroop, and Owlbear).
This means that, no matter what, Plugg and Scourge will not simply get rid of us, since doing so would reduce his manpower from 21 to 15... perhaps even less if some of the other friendly crew is unhappy with him getting us killed. Plugg and Scourge need us for the moment.
We have another uncertainty in the Rahadoumi sailors. So far, we can't influence them, but perhaps this can change in the following days. If something goes wrong now and there is a fight, they will probably join the officers for fear, making a 8 Rahadoumi vs. 9 wormwood, considering that all our 'friends' will indeed join us.
In the aftermath, even if we are victorious, we will not be able to sail the ship thanks to the reduced number of sailors alive. I believe it is too risky to act right now. I say we wait a couple more days... perhaps after the rahadoumi get beaten after failing a job, we can get a better feel of their loyalty.
I won't comment on the behind-the-scenes going on right now, but I will note that we are just missing your IC post to move on to bloody hour and night, Baolus.
My fear is that they’ll whip us and weaken us, and then (try to) dispose of us when we are closer to port. They’ve already tried to murder one of us...at the very least I don’t see Red living through this. Scourge is going to take his anger out. And I’d rather remove them on our terms instead of waiting for theirs.
A ship can still be sailed with half the crew complement.
Assuming the Man's Promise is a Sailing Ship, as presented in the S&S Player's Guide, that means the crew complement is 20, so it can be sailed with as little as 10 people. So they don't need us, at all.
If we can take Scourge and Plugg out quietly, we don't risk losing any allies, or killing any of the Rahadoumi. So even if one of us takes over the wheel, we'll still have a full complement and can sail without issue.
GM, question for you as I build out my character plan.
The internet seems unsure on if certain feats can be taken by kineticist to enhance their kinetic blast, which is listed as (SP) so, spell like ability. Basically the internet says your mileage may vary and consult with your DM.
So, how do you feel about Buhayra at some point in the future taking either Ability Focus (Kinetic Blast) or Elemental Focus (Cold) & Greater Elemental Focus (Cold). I would only take one or the other, not both...either way the result would be a +2 on save dcs forced by infusions of my kinetic blast (Like Entangling Infusion and Mobile blast).
Obviously Ability Focus is by far the more powerful option, and the one I would prefer, but Elemental Focus is probably more balanced. Wanted to get your ruling on one, the other, or neither as I continue to theory craft my Feat, Infusion, and Utility Talent Plan.
Ability Focus is a No.
I'd be willing to allow Elemental Focus.
Cool beans. Thanks!
I won't comment on the behind-the-scenes going on right now, but I will note that we are just missing your IC post to move on to bloody hour and night, Baolus.
Damn! My post got eaten! I'll do it again once I get home in about an hour... sorry.
Knowing the rails, I'm not going to comment on this whole thing.
Madiya, though, doesn't care that much. She'll help if you go forward with it, but isn't particularly going to help plot. She remains focused on her own day-to-day survival.
I won't comment on the behind-the-scenes going on right now, but I will note that we are just missing your IC post to move on to bloody hour and night, Baolus.Damn! My post got eaten! I'll do it again once I get home in about an hour... sorry.
No worries!
Knowing the rails, I'm not going to comment on this whole thing.
Shhhhhhhh. ;-)
You don't know. We might go off the rails on this crazy train.
You don't know. We might go off the rails on this crazy train.
...which is exactly why I'm not going to comment. :)
Party did that in a different campaign. GM was working to make us hate the antagonist, who significantly out leveled us. We attacked, the dice roller was in our favor...and within a few posts the campaign had to be put onto different rails as we fled the town.
Derailing can be a very fun experience. So long as there are no rails that can be seamlessly transitioned to.
Aw, come on. Give us a hint, at least. How close are we to jumping the rails?
Looks like everyone's on board except Baolus. Or did we convince you?
I won't be at a computer for most of the rest of the day, so if you start the plot Madiya will Bless and keep watch, I guess. Good luck.
If we wait until midnight hour like the plan outlines Kel will be back at full. NL damage recovers at a rate of 1 per hour.
Did Sven ever give Rosie back her fiddle? Or did that get lost in the romance?
Lost thus far. IC haven’t had much of a chance yet. I’ll likely get around to it when it makes most sense in the story.
Looks like everyone's on board except Baolus. Or did we convince you?
I still believe we are going to get ourselves killed, but since this is what the majority wants, I'll be posting IC that Baolus agrees. However, can't we simply kill Plugg?
Baolus got an invisibility potion from the loot of the Man's Promise. Once he opens the trapdoor, he could simply drink it for a total of +27, thus bypassing both Owlbear and Plugg (if they are sleeping they take -10 on the perception), and killing him with coup de grace?
Using the boarding pike to make a coup de grace, we'd be looking at a damage of 3d8+15+1d6... even if we are really unlucky, we'd be looking at a minimum damage of 19, which would result at a DC 29 Fort save.
Baolus: Dunno if another post got eaten, or if you just haven't made it, yet. It's not holding anything up at the moment, but just wanted to check. I know a few of mine have been getting eaten, recently. So much so that I've taken to writing the big story posts in wordpad and then copying them over.
Baolus: Dunno if another post got eaten, or if you just haven't made it, yet. It's not holding anything up at the moment, but just wanted to check. I know a few of mine have been getting eaten, recently. So much so that I've taken to writing the big story posts in wordpad and then copying them over.
Not this time, lol. Was just waiting if anyone would agree or disagree with the idea of killing Plugg instead of capturing him.
Ok. Math time!
Sven sneaking with the potion is 1d20+2-3+20...so +19.
If he does a coup de grace with his hammer it is:
9d6+27 damage. So on average about 57 damage. So if he has more than 57 Hp, he’d need to make a Fort save of 67 or instantly die.
Which by the way...by those rules we might have been able to kill Captain H even if his class levels were double digits. :p
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Baolus with the potion has +25 Stealth.
Baolus with the boarding pike does 3d8+1d6+15 damage. So on average 30 damage.
If my math is correct...Baolus has a better chance of reaching Plugg. Sven has a better chance of killing the man in one hit.
Baolus also has a better chance of getting away once Plugg is dead or continuing to sneak on in.
——
I’m more than willing to send Sven in. I’m guessing that Plugg is the main threat. If he’s dead then we got this.
Just gonna point this one out: Plugg is the easier target. It's only him and Owlbear in that room (as far as we know), so there's less of a chance for failure. Hold on to that invisibility potion until we go after Scourge, since he's surrounded by enemy sailors.
Also, I'm going to throw this out there: We are at virtually no risk if we catch them while they are sleeping.
Tie Up
If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target’s CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.
Sven or Baolus can tie them up without ever facing combat. If the other one is there with a gag, they won't be able to yell, and we capture them without putting ourselves in peril.
@Sven: Actually, Sven would only have a better chance at killing Plugg if he manages to get a 20 on the Fort save. At our level, a DC 67 or a DC 40 Fort Save is actually the same. I really doubt Plugg has a Fort modifier higher than +21.
@Tamesis: I believe you are wrong. I'm not sure, since it would take the GM's ruling, but I believe the 'unconscious' part of the tie up question means more knocked down than sleeping. I don't believe Plugg would not wake up before we tie him... unless he is used to sleep with both his hands close together.
If we catch both Plugg and Owlbear sleeping, both get -10 on their Perception check. Here are our Stealth modifiers: Baolus +5, Buhayra +7, Kehlysch +2, Madiya +1, Sven -1, Tamesis +3.
Baolus and Sven are the ones strong enough in melee and the ones able to tie Plugg, but on average Sven sneak is only 9. We can safely assume Plugg is at least 2-3 levels above us. If Perception is a class skill for him, he should have at least 7-8 as a bonus, which would net on average the same (canceling the -10 penalty). If Plugg rolls a little better or Sven a little worse, Plugg wakes up.
If Owlbear wakes up, the DC of hearing a conversation is 0, so Plugg will mostly wake up before we can make Owlbear understand that he needs to speak quietly.
Even if we manage to reach Plugg without awaking him, he will be helpless, but only as long as he remains sleeping. To grapple him, Baolus and Sven will act on a surprise round. Baolus would try (and auto-succeed) to grapple. Sven can't make him pinned, for an additional creature grappling only provides +2 to the first one (which was already an auto-success). Then we roll for Initiative and Plugg can scream for help. If Baolus acts first, he should be able to pin Plugg (probably, +13 vs. flat-footed CMD), but Plugg is still able to scream for help. Only on the second round of normal combat (third counting the surprise round) will Plugg be tied up.
In any situation that Plugg is able to call for help, Scourge will awake and the invisibility potion will be mostly useless, for he would not be helpless sleeping and no one would be able to coup de grace him. However, if Plugg is killed without a sound, we can still do normal sneak to Scourge and even if he awakes, I'm not sure if he'll be sleeping with the Rahadoumi sailors close to him... perhaps he is even the only one sleeping on the officer's quarter.
Eh, I've been known to bend the rules, and I'm more of the mind to reward good planning, rather than punishing it. So I'd rule on the side of asleep = unconscious, here.
The odds of Scourge or the other sailors hearing Plugg are actually really low. Even assuming the base DC would be -10 (hear sounds of battle), it then gets affected by distance (80'-ish, so +8), 2 sets of doors (+10) and listener being asleep (+10), for a minimum DC of 18. From what we've seen of these guys, I'm going to assume pretty low Perception, so it would rely entirely on the dice.
The GM stated that Scourge and the Rahadoumi are all in the Officers Quarters. Or, at least, they were assigned there.
Gagging someone would be different from the tying, as far as I'm aware. Again, it would be a GM ruling, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
I'm not seeing any kind of rules for gagging someone, but I'll say that you can do it. The other person wouldn't offer a +2 to the grapple, but would keep the target from speaking.
If I find official rules on it, I may change that, though. Give me a few minutes.
Well there you go.
Also, funny enough, the base DC to "hear the sound of a creature walking" is 10. So, Sven has a better chance of going undetected by forgoing Stealth entirely and just walking around, at least for audio-based Perception. Can't help but laugh at that, a little.
Alright Baolus, you convinced me. Was willing to take the risk but you are indeed the best choice for this mission
There are no official rules for gagging someone. Only that a caster who has been gagged can't use verbal components.
I'll stand by what I said earlier, then.
As for Plugg and Owlbear's Perception scores...
You guys can see Owlbear's statblock, I posted it before. As for Plugg, Kehlysch rolled super high, so without spoiling anything: You are WAY overestimating his Perception...
Ok, I'm convinced.
However, if the second one making the grappling will be able to gag, then I believe Baolus and Buhayra could sneak on Plugg, carrying a part of the Iron Rope. Sven could stay behind on the trapdoor for the case of Owlbear awakening. If s!%@ hits the fan he would be able to join the battle quickly.
Then Baolus can drink the potion and rinse and repeat with Scourge.
I believe we are ready to go.
w00t!
Baolus and Buhayra are our kidnappers, then. If Buhayra isn't up for it, Tammy will happily accompany Baolus.