Wrath of the Il-khanids: The Mongol Conquest of Khwarezmia (1220 - 1221 c.e.) (Inactive)

Game Master Sebecloki

The Mongol conquest of Khwarezmia from 1219 to 1221 marked the beginning of the Mongol conquest of the Islamic states. In the ensuing war, lasting less than two years, the Khwarezmid Empire was destroyed.


51 to 100 of 191 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>

There are also muslim mongols, which would further complicate the whole matter.


Yes, as well as Buddhist! They really had a wide variety of religions in their Empire.


Yes, please Timeskeeper! Anything you can point me to about medieval Persian customs and culture would be amazing.


Here, is the main over view of the battle that we've been talking about.

This is an over view of the dynasty it was under.

The main problem finding things on the Persian Turkish society is because it still persists to this day, most of what you'll find it about modern views on it not historical. So that will take more digging.

My Google page is giving me a 403 error code when I try to look up something so I've sadly a lot less... wish I know what the code was for...


I'm thinking a melee-focused cleric aiming for the holy vindicator prestige class. Lots of channelling.

And there was a Nestorian presence in Iran, so there may be good scope for interacting with the locals!


So an archer, a shamaness, a melee-focused cleric... Perhaps a bard? Or a barbarian? Two entirely different directions, but both could work.

Basically, I am more than happy to play the missing link!


Well a barbarian mongol sounds fitting some how! XD


If you were a bard or skald, you could be a 'throat-singer', which might be kind of cool


There were (some) Nestorian Christians among the Mongols as well.

I think a mounted archer (ranger, archery style, animal companion) could work well. A soldier and horseman of some repute, entering the Khan's guard and assigned to ... special duty.

Any interest?


That sounds good too.


Nice article on Mongolian naming practices at http://heraldry.sca.org/names/mongolian_names_marta.html.


That is really useful! I've been having problems picking a name!


I found some excellent handbooks on this period, and posted links to pdfs in the campaign info page.


Sebecloki wrote:
I found some excellent handbooks on this period, and posted links to pdfs in the campaign info page.

Those are wonderful sources, thanks so much


https://paxmongolicadotorg.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/women-in-mongol-iran -book.pdf here's a whole book about women in Mongol Iran -- I posted the link in the campaign description too


Hi, I was thinking of making a swordswoman from the city of either Samarqand or Bukhara in the Swashbuckler class. I am thinking maybe of a Bukharan Jewish woman good with the shamshir.


An archer, a shamaness, a melee-focused cleric, a mounted archer, a swashbuckler, and a barbarian... Quorum?

Obviously, there is the quintessential missing link: characters and stories!


This is my idea for the immediate scenario that gets the campaign started:

"Genghis then sent a 500-man caravan of Muslims to establish official trade ties with Khwarezmia. However Inalchuq, the governor of the Khwarezmian city of Otrar, had the members of the caravan that came from Mongolia arrested, claiming that the caravan was a conspiracy against Khwarezmia. It seems unlikely, however, that any members of the trade delegation were spies. Nor does it seem likely that Genghis was trying to initiate a conflict with the Khwarezmid Empire with the caravan, considering he was making steady progress against a faltering Jin empire in northern China at that very moment.[5]"

"Genghis Khan then sent a second group of three ambassadors (one Muslim and two Mongols) to meet the shah himself and demand the caravan at Otrar be set free and the governor be handed over for punishment. The shah had both of the Mongols shaved and had the Muslim beheaded before sending them back to Genghis Khan. Muhammad also ordered the personnel of the caravan to be executed. This was seen as a grave affront to the Khan himself, who considered ambassadors "as sacred and inviolable".[7] This led Genghis Khan to attack the Khwarezmian dynasty. The Mongols crossed the Tian Shan mountains, coming into the Shah's empire in 1219.[8]"

So, you're either going to be traveling with the first or second caravan


http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/bukhara-vii useful for background on Bukhara Jews


I shall go with Erdene Degai as a name. "Precious younger brother".

Erdene's family dwelt in northern Mongolia, near the Taiga, and were familiar with the forests as well as the grasslands. They were skilled horse-breeders, but not otherwise of much note. When Chingis Khan united all the people of the felt tents, Erdene became one of the many riders of the Horde. In the Khan's invasion of China, Erdene was easily the best rider and archer of his ten-squad (arbatu), and then of his hundred-company (zagatu), and finally of his his thousand-unit (minggan), where he led a hundred-company at the siege of Zhongdu. Returning from China, laden like many other Mongols with the wealth of tribute from the Jin, Erdene acquired many horses... and heard tell of others. Persian stallions, graceful as the wind. A few years later, when the Khan sent a mission from the rising sun to the setting sun, Erdene was sent along, partly as a guard but also in hopes of acquiring and evaluating Persian horses.

I'm going to guess that a level 6 character is pretty impressive -- the GM can demote Erdene if he feels that the rank of hundred-captain is excessive.

Erdene enjoys riding and archery, discussing and training and breeding and trading and tending and caring for horses. He has somewhat of a weakness for foreign luxuries, such as various styles of fermented drinks (particularly ones that are made from grapes rather than mares' milk) and clothes of southern silks and styles, but he remains a practical Mongol warrior. He has little connection with the Khan's immediate family or the more famous Mongols, but Chinghis' reforms have opened the way for capable men to rise high, and he plans to go higher yet.

Still working on the crunch.


I was thinking that the major characters would be level 16 or so -- like Chingis Khan, etc. Most of the important NPCs will only be like 12th level at most, this isn't going to be a lot of high level NPCs wandering around. So that seems appropriate for a 6th level character, that's a pretty high position relatively in the context.


Insnare wrote:
Hi, I was thinking of making a swordswoman from the city of either Samarqand or Bukhara in the Swashbuckler class. I am thinking maybe of a Bukharan Jewish woman good with the shamshir.

I posted a link to the Bukharian Jews. Perhaps your character could have a family tradition of being descended from the biblical Esther, something like that.

I would like to see some explanation for a female warrior in that context too, as well as how the character would be connected to the Mongol party being proposed by the other recruitees. Maybe she is part of a trading caravan? This might be a good translator character too.


Did anyone want to propose some other rules to use? I think some of the material in the Xoth link on the previous page of discussion is interesting -- like distinguishing humans based on being nomads or city dwellers with different ability modifiers. I think that reflects accurately historically that mounted horse warriors like the Mongols had virtually superhuman strength and training with the using a heavy bow while mounted that city dwellers did not possess.


Hi, I was thinking she is a Bukharan Jew and grew up primarily in the city until she was about 11. Her father on the other hand was a trader and craftsmen who would travel the Silk Road between Baghdad and Anxi, primarily in spices and carpets.

She would help her mother making carpets while her father was selling them although she would accompany her father on short trips from time to time to Samarqand and Merv.

Shortly after her 11th birthday, her mother fell ill and her grandparents were far too old to take care of her so she accompanied her father full time. Her father encouraged her to be handy with a sword because there were always highwaymen and she was really good at acrobatics entertaining members of the caravan when they would camp for the night.. Her best maneuver was tight rope walking along the tops of tents. As a swashbuckler, she would have a kind of vaudevillian flare

The first major battle of the war was the siege of Bukhara, I was thinking that maybe due to some slight against her aging grandfather by the local Emir, she decided that in exchange for not killing her people she would help the Great Khan take the city.


I'm thinking it might be better to have the Mongols be the first party into Bukhara -- it leaves a lot of room for things to happen in all sorts of ways.

I like the suggestion of the local woman being attached as a translator to the Mongol party, but I could see (say) her being hired by the shamaness as a bodyguard for in the city as well. Lots of possible connections.


Shamaness would love body-guard. Also I can chose between the name Yesui and Sechen. I like them both so... Suggestions?

Also thank you to Tonyz for the names list!


You're welcome ;)

Yesui sounds, perhaps, too Christian, but I don't have much problem with either name otherwise.


I'm all for using background skills and automatic bonus progression from the official alternate rules for Pathfinder.

In house rules, feat tax is great and Xoth has loads of cool elements.


"Daily Life In The Mongol Empire" George Lewis. 2006

Highly recommended by David Morgan, author of "The Mongols"

It appears to be on the shelves of my local university. I'll take a look tomorrow. I've also put in an Interlibrary Loan request, so I'll probably get it in 3-4 weeks


How does everyone feel about using automatic bonus progression from Unchained, feat taxes, and the Xoth material to distinguish settled from unsettled humans?

I was also wondering about using a grittier system for combat to reflect the more dangerous situation of real-world fighting, such as removing iteratives, wounds/vigor, armor as damage reduction, and called-shots/critical hits. How would the group feel about those kinds of modifications?


Insnare wrote:

Hi, I was thinking she is a Bukharan Jew and grew up primarily in the city until she was about 11. Her father on the other hand was a trader and craftsmen who would travel the Silk Road between Baghdad and Anxi, primarily in spices and carpets.

She would help her mother making carpets while her father was selling them although she would accompany her father on short trips from time to time to Samarqand and Merv.

Shortly after her 11th birthday, her mother fell ill and her grandparents were far too old to take care of her so she accompanied her father full time. Her father encouraged her to be handy with a sword because there were always highwaymen and she was really good at acrobatics entertaining members of the caravan when they would camp for the night.. Her best maneuver was tight rope walking along the tops of tents. As a swashbuckler, she would have a kind of vaudevillian flare

The first major battle of the war was the siege of Bukhara, I was thinking that maybe due to some slight against her aging grandfather by the local Emir, she decided that in exchange for not killing her people she would help the Great Khan take the city.

The mongols wouldn't treat the jews as dhimmis like the muslim rulers, so that's very possible.

I'm imagining starting the campaign with the bukhara siege then, so that the provocation of the dead diplomats has already happened.

This would be close to history but still leave room for development, partly because the sources are scanty for some episodes. Like we could have a spy party enter the city to infiltrate the Ark of Bukhara, the citadel I posted images of, and steal the plans for the city defenses, or something similar.


Posted some images and maps for Bukhara


This is going to be my new avatar for this campaign.


Sebecloki wrote:
How does everyone feel about using automatic bonus progression from Unchained, feat taxes, and the Xoth material to distinguish settled from unsettled humans?

Well, you know you have an "aye" from me. :)

Sebecloki wrote:
I was also wondering about using a grittier system for combat to reflect the more dangerous situation of real-world fighting, such as removing iteratives, wounds/vigor, armor as damage reduction, and called-shots/critical hits. How would the group feel about those kinds of modifications?

I'd be fine with the first three. Called-shots/critical hits sound like they could slow the game down depending on how they are implemented, but I am not against the concept.


Personally, I find called shots and criticals rather interesting! As for the other rules, all good!

How did you decide to attribute abilities? Roll or point-buy?


Auto bonus progression, feat taxes, and Xoth are OK with me. Am I correct in assuming that the Xoth cultural archetype modifiers replace the regular human stat bonus?

Should have basic crunch finished soon. How are you going to handle starting character wealth, then?

Slightly gritter combat is OK, though I'm ambivalent about called/critical shots. Say the rules, and I'm with you.


Erdene Degai wrote:

Auto bonus progression, feat taxes, and Xoth are OK with me. Am I correct in assuming that the Xoth cultural archetype modifiers replace the regular human stat bonus?

Should have basic crunch finished soon. How are you going to handle starting character wealth, then?

Slightly gritter combat is OK, though I'm ambivalent about called/critical shots. Say the rules, and I'm with you.

Yes, the cultural modifiers would replace the ordinary human stat bonus if I'm reading this correctly.

Let me take a look at crits and see what it would involve.


Alias ad Tempus wrote:

Personally, I find called shots and criticals rather interesting! As for the other rules, all good!

How did you decide to attribute abilities? Roll or point-buy?

I was going to say 4d6, drop the lowest. However, I'm also happy to just let everyone assign reasonable stats for their characters. What do people want to do? Would everyone be okay with just determining their own reasonable array?


What about giving all the Mongol characters with a martial class the feat for stamina/combat tricks as a free feat too?


I'm going to keep looking around a bit more -- I'll post an update in campaign info on rules:

I think this is what we've agreed upon -- please feel free to comment:

Automatic Bonus Progression (we should use the one where it's as if you're 2 levels higher, i.e., the chart designed for games with essentially no magical items).

Feat tax rules. I also generally give 1 feat a level for characters.

Background skills.

2 Traits.

Using human types from Xoth.

Wounds/Vigor

Armor as Damage Reduction.

If you are a mertial Mongol character, you get the feat for stamina/combat tricks for free.

Removing iterative attacks.

Let me take a look at the called shot rules and think about that.


Oh, and skill unlocks are available to skill monkey characters


Ok, I'm not much of a rules person, so whatever is decided is fine with me.

That does mean, though, that I'll need someone to check my build carefully, and then I may need a bit of coaching through the first couple encounters.

I'm good with Core, but beyond that, I'm clueless.


CrystalSeas wrote:

Ok, I'm not much of a rules person, so whatever is decided is fine with me.

That does mean, though, that I'll need someone to check my build carefully, and then I may need a bit of coaching through the first couple encounters.

I'm good with Core, but beyond that, I'm clueless.

That shouldn't be a problem -- this is going to be a slow-moving campaign, so there will be plenty of time to explain unfamiliar rules as they come up.


The rules seem good, no problem with them here.


Okay I have Sechen's background up, and I hope to get her crunch up over the weekend.


OK with the rules, but someone may need to check that I'm doing them correctly. (Rangers have enough skill points to do skill unlocks -- I thought about being a horselord, but honestly it doesn't seem that different from a regular ranger with a horse companion and mounted combat style anyway...)


DM -- Wrath of the Il-khans wrote:


Feat tax rules. I also generally give 1 feat a level for characters.

Just to be clear: this is 1 feat per level in addition to standard feat progression?


The Spider God's Bride campaign page has a neat compilation of rules, including bonuses for the different human races in that setting. Could be handy!


Alias ad Tempus wrote:
DM -- Wrath of the Il-khans wrote:


Feat tax rules. I also generally give 1 feat a level for characters.
Just to be clear: this is 1 feat per level in addition to standard feat progression?

What I mean is 1 feat per level instead of every other level, as per the CRB. This is a rule from Monte Cook's Book of Experimental Might which I like.


Okay, so the Mongol characters, using the Xoth rules, should use "Khazistani" and "Nomad" or "Savage" for their race and racial archetype.

Persian characters should be "Zadjites" and have the "Civilized" or "Decadent" archetype.

Jews and other Levantine peoples should be "Susrahnites" with the "Civilized" or "Decadent" archetype.

Any Chinese characters should be "Taikangian" and have the "Civilized" or Decadent archetype.

51 to 100 of 191 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Online Campaigns / Recruitment / Historical Campaign: Mongol conquest of Khwarezmia (1219-1221), OR during the life of Vlad the Impaler, OR Napoleonic Wars All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.