| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have an itch to do an historical campaign -- I find the Mongol conquests fascinating.
Here are some relevant wikipedia entries on the time period I am thinking about:
Mongol conquest of Khwarezmia
Khwarazmian dynasty
Mongol Empire
I was assuming the party would be persian, but I'm open to a mongol party as well. This would be a slightly legendary version of history with mongol shaman and iranian genie-binders and so on, but I am concerned with trying to incorporate a lot of historical detail.
Rules:
I'm a huge fan of alternative and house rules, but I'm going to try to reign myself in for this one so that the focus can be on research to play the characters correctly and write rich posts.
Attributes: I'd like to say just design something reasonable, like a non-mythic, reasonable historical character. But if that seems to open-ended, then 4d6, drop the lowest.
Races: only, or at least mostly humans. Maybe we could allow one half-jinn or something, but that's really not the point of this campaign. No elves or dwarves or other things that don't fit the cultural milieu.
Class/Level: start at 6th level to allow for one level of a prestige class if someone wants that. Open to most 3rd party sources that would fit the time period. I'm more concerned with flavor than a specific set of rules. Like, you can use Spheres of Might if you can fluff it for the setting. The magic systems from Akashic mysteries would work well with this setting.
Skills/feats: background skills.
Equipment: just choose something that would make sense for the character.
I'd imagine the story would start with the mongols arriving in the iranian court, but it would be different if the party were themselves mongols.
The major issue is if you're willing to put the time into playing in a historically-grounded game.
If that's a little too exotic, I'm also interested in perhaps running something during the Ottoman-Romanian Wars and the life of Vlad the Impaler, or something about the Napoleonic Wars.
Here are some things we could use for the Khwarzemian conquest campaign idea:
Yes!!! Historical campaigns!!!
I am totally up for another Historical game! I'm already in an Ireland themed one and it is awesome!!!
Great, I was hoping there would be some interest! Which scenario interests you all the most?
That is what I'm having a problem with! XD
I have ideas for both sides, from a mongol shamaness, to a Persian genie-bunder!
Though I do need to ask, we are allowed to play female characters Yes? With the understanding that these are more patriarchal societies of course.
Yes to female characters -- I'd have to do some more research, but I think the mongol idea might be more viable for that from an historical perspective -- consider Khutulun.
I should clarify that I'm not going to unnecessarily dwell on intense violence or misogyny, but this isn't going to be Golarion with some real world window dressing, I do actually want to do something the takes account of historical details in a significant fashion.
Historically, women could be shamen MONGOLIAN SHAMANISM too.
Yes I did my research! ^_^
So I think I'll go for a Mongolian shamaness. Hmmm, should I use Oracle for that? Or cleric?
Also I'm fine with some realizim coming up. I understand not all men are going to be so open minded to a character like mine even if she is a shamaness. That is fine! I'm only with this! XD
I mean hell I'm playing a slave in my Irish game. I'm not a stranger to culturally norms of the time I'm playing in.
This is actually pushing me more towards thinking about a Mongol party -- we can find an historical khan to make her the daughter of and such, like one of Chingis' sons, brothers, or other relatives.
I am imagining things like having the Mongol party infiltrate defenses and other kinds of sabotage. For instance, they destroyed a lot of the agricultural infrastructure when they invaded persia, and also took down the historical assassins in a pitched battle.
It seems like both of you might also know some other board members who are into this sort of stuff -- maybe you could try to drum up some interest. I'm looking for players who really want to get into this -- I'm imagining using historical maps and images of places and having sources open as I write posts to really get the effect across, describing spells in the context of real mongolian rituals and such.
Also, this would be a leisurely campaign -- both because it has no necessary plot arc or time limit, but also because I'm more concerned about the quality and substance than the frequency of posts.
But basically, my point is that there would be time to look up stuff to make good posts.
I'm up to talk lineage for her! Got a Khan in mind? Since daughter where rarely tracked it makes placing my character in easier.
I thought about making her more of a Seer, would that work? It might help me narrow down the class.
Maybe Jochi, he seems to have been involved in the Iranian campaign.
Seer is fine.
There are a few over my discord channel I've sent this too, but they're offline at the moment.
Okay, I'll read up on him and work her in! ^_^
Awesome and thanks! I'm starting to get really excited about running this, I hope we can get enough potential mongols to do it.
If I can get another few potential players seriously interested, I'll put some more energy into identifying helpful pathfinder sources as well as links to historical info and lay out a potential campaign arc and themes etc.
Jochi seems to have had two historically identified daughters, so this works really well.
Well I might have just roped one more in! XD
I have to go to work now -- I'll update this when I get back this evening and see where we're at. This could be a lot of fun.
I am the weirdo that Time has notified about this Mongolian campaign. My questions are on if we need to worry about magical items, do we need to go by wealth by level to buy them, is there a stat buy or just a roll... little build things. I have a concept, I just want to slap it on paper and see if it fits the logistics.
I'd be up for this. I'll keep an eye on the thread to see if you fill all your spaces.
I've also been lured here from the Irish game. :) I'll have to consider ideas.
A potentially useful source of inspiration could be the Conan the Barbarian-esque World of Xoth setting. The main pdf is free, and also found in blog posts on the site. For example, since all PCs are human, the setting distinguishes various cultural archetypes such as 'civilised', 'nomad, 'savage', etc. I'm currently playing in a campaign set in Xoth, and it has a very different feel to standard 3.x/pathfinder.
I also highly recommend using the 'feat tax' house rules. They allow for more mechanical variety in character advancement.
A question:
Some of the sources have maps of the extent of the Mongol empire.
Is it accurate that they never controlled Istanbul/Constantinople? And can you give us any sources for people with know knowledge of this history and geography?
I'm thinking of a Persian character, perhaps a ranger/scout skillset, but a mercenary.
[I'm more of a 'design the character and then put together the game mechanics' kind of person, so I want to read up a bit to get the best historic flavor.]
A question:
Some of the sources have maps of the extent of the Mongol empire.Is it accurate that they never controlled Istanbul/Constantinople? And can you give us any sources for people with know knowledge of this history and geography?
I'm thinking of a Persian character, perhaps a ranger/scout skillset, but a mercenary.
[I'm more of a 'design the character and then put together the game mechanics' kind of person, so I want to read up a bit to get the best historic flavor.]
THIS is a great series on the history of the Mongolian empire, and it covers the destruction of Persia.
The Cambridge History of Iran is another good source. The first volume is all about geography.
You're correct -- the Mongols never controlled Constantinople. The city was controlled by the Byzantines, excepting its sack during the Crusades, until the Turks conquered it some time later than the period we're in.
Here's and entry on Byzantine-Mongol relations in the time period we're discussing.
The Secret History Of The Mongol Queens : How The Daughters Of Genghis Khan Rescued His Empire
Weatherford, J. McIver.
This looks like a possible sourcebook
I am the weirdo that Time has notified about this Mongolian campaign. My questions are on if we need to worry about magical items, do we need to go by wealth by level to buy them, is there a stat buy or just a roll... little build things. I have a concept, I just want to slap it on paper and see if it fits the logistics.
I'd rather you just built something with research -- I'm happy for people just to make up their stats as appropriate, but you can roll 4d6, drop lowest if that's too free-form.
I've also been lured here from the Irish game. :) I'll have to consider ideas.
A potentially useful source of inspiration could be the Conan the Barbarian-esque World of Xoth setting. The main pdf is free, and also found in blog posts on the site. For example, since all PCs are human, the setting distinguishes various cultural archetypes such as 'civilised', 'nomad, 'savage', etc. I'm currently playing in a campaign set in Xoth, and it has a very different feel to standard 3.x/pathfinder.
I also highly recommend using the 'feat tax' house rules. They allow for more mechanical variety in character advancement.
I'm really pretty open on any mechanics everyone will agree to -- I myself basically like to play my own version of pathfinder with a bunch of 3rd party and house rules, but I'm trying to at least initially not pitch this campaign in this fashion so the rules won't combine with the setting to scare people off.
If the players all really like that kind of stuff, I'm very open to anything that's suggested, including the feat tax rules.
I tend to let everyone have 1 feat per level.
If we go with one character as the seeress daughter of one of Chingis' sons, and identify her with the daughter that gets married to another khan, the marriage could be a campaign plot point.
I think it would make sense to have her brother/uncle/other male relative as one of the other characters, if any one feels so compelled.
We'll also need a translator of some sort -- I could foresee a lot of interesting situations where the translator gets to interpret, maybe to his/her own advantage, what the other characters say for the NPCs, and vice versa.
Would the persian archer perhaps be a prisoner to the mongols?
I'm happy to collaboratively work on the rules we want to use -- any other suggestions for things players want?
Would the persian archer perhaps be a prisoner to the mongols?
I like that idea
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
For sources also look up the Encylopedia Iranica online. That has very detailed and scholarly discussions of all sorts of peoples, places, and events of relevance.
Real life is often as good or better than fantasy -- this is a fortress in Bukhara, one of the cities assaulted by the Mongols in their conquest of Iran link
Much research to be done! Nice to see so many Irish explorers in the mix!
Okay, so doing some research and some math, which lets face it that is what pathfinder in general is, the youngest age for a male to be in an arranged marriage is 8. At which time in mongol culture the boy is to work for the bride's family till both come of age to marry. 16 for males, and the common assumption for females is as soon as one gets their first cycle but I think we can safely say 15 just for simplicity? And nice numbers? Please?
So Genghis Khan had four notable sons, Jochi, Chagatai, Ögedei, and Tolui in that order. During the time between 1219 and 1221 Jochi was 37-39, Chagatai was 36-38, Ögedei was 34-36, and Tolui 28-30. Keeping in mind the things written above all save Tolui are old enough to have my character be their daughter. Assuming my character is between the ages of 15-18. Though this puts her older than all of her recorded siblings and most of her cousins. I think only Mutukan, Chagatai's eldest son, and his second son Baidar would possibly be older but by no more that 2-5 years.
So the oddity of having a daughter who is unmarriaged and possibly unbetrothed would be an... interesting thing.
I can't seem to settle upon a curse. I've been going back and forth between Clouded Vision, Powerless Prophecy, and Tongues. I think the Powerless Prophecy would be from a more defeated Seer, one whose first prophecy was either ignored or was unable to be changed. Where as the other two are more of The, let's change fate! Kind of Seer.
None of my business, but she could be unbetrothed or... widowed? Undoubtedly, the granddaughter of the Khan would always remain a worthy bride!
In the Mongol culture wives rarely remarried, remaining loyal to their first husband. But I wouldn't be against her being unbetrothed. It could be likely that her abilities as a Seer manifested young and that held off any chance of her getting properly betrothed till the family came to terms with it. Or it is possible that the Khan just didn't accept any betrothments that where offered for one reason or another.
@Timeskeeper
Where are you finding this cultural stuff? I'm looking for info on daily life, culture, customs, etc.
This YouTube group does really well with historical facts and it was from them I was able to gather the marriage customs and at what age the boys where left in the company of his bride's family.
This allowed a basic insight into the cultural understanding of women with in the Mongol ranks. It is also where the face wives rarely remarry come from and the fact that while many men had more than one wife, only the first wife was counted as the legal wife and would become the head of the family if her husband died before their sons where of age.
The parts about his sons where all on wiki. Just took time and dedication to track each one down, look at the dates they where born then died and do some math. Some didn't have birth dates but Mutukan did have a death date of 1221 in battle so we can guess his age from that, what we know about their culture, and his father (who was Chagatai) given age for the time.
Oh and this is also a nice little bit to know.
That is good to point out -- I should clarify that I'm not shying away from the fact that the mongols were pretty brutal, but at the same time I'm going to work hard to find workable adventure scenarios where the character's aren't genociding villages as the main substance of the campaign.
Well, we call them brutal but for their time they weren't really any different than the European warring kingdoms to the west. Honestly, taking it all in stride, women in the Mongol ranks had it far better than any others in the surrounding areas. They could divorce their husbands, own property, and where valued advisers. They could hold shaman roles and could become head of the household when their husband died, if they where the first wife that is.
Yeah it wasn't prefect! But it was a step that did sat the Mongols ahead for their time and area.
But yes they where a fierce society and they did earn that. Genghis Khan and his sons and grandsons killed many people and assimilated countless others.
This might also be useful. I just honestly found it entertaining.
Thanks much!
You're welcome!
You want me to dig some stuff up on Persian culture and such? Since you're thinking about playing our prisoner?
How about a Mongol Nestorian Christian? Perhaps a Keraite priest or a holy warrior urging a push to the holy land?
That would be an interesting character too. It would also add another dimension to their war in Khwarezmia, since for that character he would be fighting enemy religionists.
Since Mongols practice religious freedom that wouldn't be out of the norm and having a spirits shamaness and a Christian Holy warrior would make... interesting to moments.