|
Here's the map, with moveable tokens. Column & row designations are the same as on lucklesshero's original. Please update your position whenever you move. You'll see that Hjort has a unique token (at H-9), while the others just use the same generic thug image as last time (the Cutthroat from the NPC Codex), numbered 1-11 (you might need to zoom in to read the numbers).
Luckless, if you want to post the link to the "Written in Blood - encounter maps" Google Slides deck in the campaign header, we'll all be able to access it without having to hunt.
EDIT: looks like it will always open at slide 1 (the Skagni house map) - it's easy to navigate to the correct slide, just FYI.
|
|
It doesn't sound like we've had much time to spread out, as we were simply standing stunned for a whole minute.
I would say Jawhar in E13, Jamir in F14, Craggark in F15, Torvald in E16.
Maybe move Jamir, Craggark, and Torvald 1 space N each.
Jamir want to do your stuff with Slides again?
Looks like you posted just as I was finishing up. I've got Jamir in F12 - I'll let each of you move to where you want to start from.
|
|
Can't edit :)
Fixed.
Also, one clarification - I put the other customers of the bar in the spaces that lucklesshero had whited-out on his original map. I'm not certain those will be starting positions for any combat, or that those are all the people there are - for now, consider them flavor, don't count too much on their positions until the GM confirms them.
Lucklesshero, I can relabel them or swap out tokens as needed - just let me know.
the bar is crowded even more patrons then Jamir has put tokens in (but no need to add more tokens)
going to wait for Craggark to pipe in before I continue with the red hair man's response. Jamir you can give me a diplomacy check ...give yourself a +2 because of Jawhar's looming presence .
Jamir, please re-number tokens #9=3 , #10=5 , #11=6 also Craggark might have been in F-10 when the fight began, I don't remember just let him tell you where he was. We'll wait till everybody has rolled initiative and Torvald has performed his readied action before jumping feet first into this.
Craggark please be sure to either move your token to where you started combat or have Jamir do it for you. I kinda messed up the board so you might not be in the correct place.
Also how do you move tokens ? I don't want to mess things up again ..but, I don't want you guys to have to wait for Jamir to post to take a look at your adversary position when you need to.
Luckless, which of the bad guys is the one who said "let's get 'em"?
t-1 a
3, 5, and 6 are swapped in for 9-11.
For moving, are you working on a computer or a tablet?
I'll use a mouse from now on
yep Craggark take ur time..
just so ur aware..there's the possibility of more than one battle today. regarding per day character resources ect..
just so ur aware..there's the possibility of more than one battle today. regarding per day character resources ect..I am already taking that into account. It was rather awesome for the module to call for a 1 MINUTE delay while we just stand around absorbing insults...
This is actually a GM call mostly for expedience as all your opponents are Chaotic Neutral and none of them will be casting mind affecting spells; so that, effectively makes your effort to buff null(with protection from evil)..I'm not accustom to punishing players that try to prepare. I was actually trying to make this flow a little faster so I didn't have to explain the guy that's hitting you is not evil when I hit your AC of 18 and you respond it's 20 because of the spell.
Here's the exact text of the scenario
The temperature inside the Horned Helm is stiflingly hot—nearly 100° F. This is because of two enormous iron furnaces crammed full of coal, wood, and anything else flammable that radiate the scorching fires of Hell themselves. Most of the crowd are sweating excessively, which only adds to the room’s dank stench.
Once the room settles down a bit (though it never fully settles—just passes out), giving the PCs time to look around, have them make a DC 15 Perception check.
Now just out of curiosity, how long would you guys ruled it took to adjust to the different atmosphere (freezing -100 deg.), lighting conditions, humidity, and outright hostility that must of greeted your PC's as they entered this place? Would you have ruled they get a perception check on the 1st round? 2nd? I haven't frequented crowded bars in quite some time but 30-60 sec doesn't seem unreasonable to catch ones barrings. It certainly seems well within the norm of finding someone in a crowded bar. Sounds like Sarah Conor would have been dead meat if you guys had written the script. The Governator would have just walked strait up to her and double tapped her before the guy at the door could say owe from his broken hand.
Anyway, regardless figuring out how long it takes to adjust to the hostile bar is neither here nor there. I'm coming to understand that Pathfinder PC's have something of a mindset of a superhero and don't really want gritty realism of role play so much as a hero's journey that they of coarse come out on top. I'm actually not dogging that. It's how almost all fantasy novels are laid out..Tolken, Jordan, Eddings, Howard..take your pick.
Even if you're not a fan of the good guys loosing (Martin, Lovecraft, Shelly) you must admit even in heroic fantasy that, the hero's must face extraordinary adversity before their journey can come to a satisfying conclusion. Otherwise it's just a bunch of Mary Sues, running around having everything go their way (thinking of most modern Superhero films, or buddy cop films).
So how long would you guys have ruled they had to wait before the perception check? Clearly the text wants you to wait some time..imagine what it would be like for you to walk out of the cold Chicago April, walk into a bar on the north side after a cub loss, in a cardinals jersey, the place is 100 degrees, and it's 18deg with windchill outside. There's 200 people in a bar that's coded for 125 and you hafta find one guy sitting at the bar minding his own business?
Actual looking forward to your answers...:)
|
Well, the finding the guy at the bar part is covered by the Perception checks.
If we just happen to look up in the exact right place and see a guy with red hair sitting at the bar and not trying to hide, then it takes no time at all. If he were trying to be inconspicuous (like Sarah Connor) then the DC would be higher, we would fail the check a few times, and have to start moving through the crowd.
Adjusting to the heat, lighting, etc. Sure, I can see a pause, maybe 3-5 rounds, but a minute seems excessive. Try walking into a crowded restaurant today and stopping right in front of the door for an entire minute. It will seem like an absolute eternity and you'll probably have several people push their way past you with impolite expressions.
I have no problem with the situation, but we have the right to complain about any perceived imbalances. ;) (Anytime something doesn't go my way it is obviously because the man was out to get me.)
None of the complaints were directed at you. (Even if they were, we don't really mean the things we say when we express our frustration.)
|
|
Well, the finding the guy at the bar part is covered by the Perception checks.
If we just happen to look up in the exact right place and see a guy with red hair sitting at the bar and not trying to hide, then it takes no time at all. If he were trying to be inconspicuous (like Sarah Connor) then the DC would be higher, we would fail the check a few times, and have to start moving through the crowd.
Adjusting to the heat, lighting, etc. Sure, I can see a pause, maybe 3-5 rounds, but a minute seems excessive. Try walking into a crowded restaurant today and stopping right in front of the door for an entire minute. It will seem like an absolute eternity and you'll probably have several people push their way past you with impolite expressions.
I have no problem with the situation, but we have the right to complain about any perceived imbalances. ;) (Anytime something doesn't go my way it is obviously because the man was out to get me.)
None of the complaints were directed at you. (Even if they were, we don't really mean the things we say when we express our frustration.)
+1 to this. Don't stress about players kvetching to each other.
As a GM, I probably would have separated the mechanics directed by the scenario text from the protection from evil issue - if the PCs are overconfident and find out the hard way that the buff doesn't apply, them's the breaks. But that's a style difference, not a complaint.
I'm not complaining about you complaining guys...I told you why I ruled a minute (there's actually more text going into detail of how the crowd heckles you; I post some of it in the game play thread) You're suppose to be seasoned adventures so I assume a bit of heckling wouldn't freeze you in your tracks (besides there's really no mechanic to resolve that other than like an intimidate check which is not what they're asking for here).
I'm asking with legit curiosity, I agree with your guys Sarah Conor take (being mechanically in Pathfinder it's just a higher DC); me using her as an analogy is more to point out that a story needs to build up. Otherwise, I could have presented your entrance to the bar as thus.
1.You walk in, its's hot and some people throw insults at you roll for perception.
2.Ok you spot the guy. Give me a diplomacy or intimidate check.
3.The guy breaks down starts spilling his guts (diplomacy takes 1 min btw per raw)
4. A round later another guy interrupts your interrogation of the red haired guy and half the bar rises from their chairs ready for a fight.
roll for initiative
Which you must admit some GM's would prefer to do.
So in the scene presented above (assuming you used intimidate instead of diplomacy)
1. outside: round 1 wand on ,say Torvald(don't say Torvald would have walked in alone cause I just never see that happening with this party or most)
2. outside: round 2 wand on , Jawhar?
3. outside: round 3 wand on , Jamir
4. outside: round 4 wand on, Craggark
5. outside: round 5 open the door whole party shuffles inside (think it's fair to assume getting everyone through the door is a full round action, but lets give the first person through the door a perception check)
6. inside: round 6 you spot your man and ignoring all heckles, heat, cat calls, ect.. you pick your way to your quarry
7. intimidate check
8. Red hair starts blubbering
9. thug interrupts (roll for initiative)
10. combat starts
Even in the best case scenario (that I can imagine) like you used a wand of protection from chaos..ignored every mitigating condition of this bar and focused directly on your target.
Torvald would have 1 round of protection and the others would have 2,3,4...
Sorry, I just don't buy it. It's lazy story telling to run an encounter as if time and circumstance don't play a roll. Perhaps if your wand was a protection from chaos I might of given the last two people hit with the wand a round and/or two of protection (and I would have been accused of being stingy then). But, really isn't there a good case to be made that by the time you confront this guy...your wand hits would have run out anyway?
Scene as that actual rounds would have rolled out; what would you guys have ruled (if it was a wand of protect chaos)? Be honest, would you have ruled no conditions or interactions with the bar mattered? That the PCs should be able to walk strait to the Target as soon as they enter the bar? Or would you have ruled it takes them 1-2 (12 sec) , 3-4(24 sec) rounds to absorb and take in this new and hostile atmosphere? If it's 3-4 rounds...times up on the buffs for everyone.. ( no lingering for a minute by the door)
If it's no time at all; I'd prefer not to play in that game..my character might live; but my spirit would die from boredom.
Fortunately Torvald seems to be doing a lot of dmg. his first two rounds..hope he can manage to stay on his feet..he is your proxy and literal blaster...
"Foreign gods"? I thought Runa was the one pushing her foreign god on the people of Trollheim?
Yep..guess you could say that ..but, then again no one in here seems to fit her description...unless you think she's disguised as Brawler 1!
Jamir could you post what you think initiative order is on this thread?
I have it as (posted in order with bold indicating who's turn it is):
1. Torvald
2. Jamir
3. Brawler 5
4. Brawler 2
5. Brawler 8
6. Thug 2
7. Brawler 7
8. Jawhar
9. Craggark
10. Brawler 1
11. Brawler 4
12. Thug 1
is this what you got? let me know...
|
|
OK, I think you were right. Assuming Torvald is bumped to first in line because of his readied action at the beginning, the new initiative order is:
1. Torvald: 5 (due to readied action)
2. Jamir: 16
3. B5: 15
4. B2: 14
5. B8: 12
6. T2: 11
7. B7: 10
8. Jawhar: 8
9. Craggark: 9 (delayed)
10. B1: 8
11. B4: 5
12. T1: 2
No, that's not it - initiative is on the map, let me update it for the two guys who are down and Craggark delaying past Jawhar, will repost there and here.
EDIT - why do you have Torvald first? Something to do with the readied action at the beginning?
Yep read the readied action post on the game play thread..apparently when you have a readied action you only get that 1 action (move,swift, or standard) and then you take the spot in initiative that triggered that action. Thus Torvald should be #1 unless I missed another post where he delayed.
In that light is there anything else wrong with the order?
Ok looks like we're on the same page..
|
|
Back to the previous discussion.
I agree that it is completely unreasonable to expect that the ProVEvil would still be in effect at the beginning of this combat.
In reality, there is absolutely no way to pre-buff before any encounter unless you have specifically had a scout sneak up, notice that the person is there, and then succeed in Stealthing within 60 ft before very quietly casting some spells.
This is why I usually don't play spellcasters. If your buffs don't last for hours at a time, they just don't make any sense, and buffing is what you really should be trying to do, so...
|
|
Back to the previous discussion.
I agree that it is completely unreasonable to expect that the ProVEvil would still be in effect at the beginning of this combat.
In reality, there is absolutely no way to pre-buff before any encounter unless you have specifically had a scout sneak up, notice that the person is there, and then succeed in Stealthing within 60 ft before very quietly casting some spells.
This is why I usually don't play spellcasters. If your buffs don't last for hours at a time, they just don't make any sense, and buffing is what you really should be trying to do, so...
Heh - I love playing spellcasters. If we do decide to start an AP this summer, my strong preference would be to play an arcane spellcaster.
|
Let's be sure to be able to question one of the two thugs attacking us with weapons at the end of this battle. Let's also be sure that we're using non-lethal damage if possible against the simple bar fighters - and targeting those who are using lethal damage to us preferentially, once we're able to thin the herd out enough.
Just my tactical suggestions. Back to back with Jawhar.
Also, Jawhar, I am at 50% health. I don't think anyone besides Torvald (who has found himself separated from us) is injured. This note is just a means for us to keep stock of who is wounded, as you are our primary healer and battlefield manager (i.e. field effect spells).