Written in Blood PFS#2-15 (Inactive)

Game Master lucklesshero

This has nothing to do with difficult terrain and I said you could enter it this round through k-3 that you'd just incur an attack of opportunity moving from k-3 to k-2 because the thug threatens k-3 and as you know when u leave a square that's when the AoO triggers. K2 is an open square that contains an archway and a corner from the building your trying to avoid the AoO by diagonally moving into k-2 through L-3; you cannot do this I don't need a ruling because the rule is already written on pg 193 of the core rule book.
You can’t move diagonally past a corner (even by taking a 5-foot ) if you've been playing you can move through doors or around corners diagonally, you've been playing it wrong. My ruling is made. Make a decision or pm GM Hmm and ask her to weigh in. Is it really necessary to call into question all this? Just in this combat you've called me out on multiple rulings and by appearances haven't even read the threads I've posted. You've challenged everything that hasn't gone your way and pushed to have abilities active even when you've used them. This is a simple movement and you've complicated and I guess you feel I've given your adversary some sort of advantage. So let me be clear, stop! Stop holding up the game please. I had these mobs fight tough but I've been far from giving them advantages. I've used sub- optimal tactics multiple times and even gave the boss a +3 attack bonus instead of +4 because that's the first bonus I mistakenly gave him so I decided to stick with it. I could have had these mobs flanking you guys early..I could have had the boss drink his 2nd pot of heal, or just stop giving Jamir all the extra AoO's by attempting to grapple and went with just trying to non lethal beat him with their weapons. Does this sound like a GM hell bent on killing your character? Go to the forums and ask if you can corner through a door. If 3 or more experienced GMs say yes go for it. I really don't care you've worn me down. I'm suspending the game till Friday evening my time .. 11 rounds I don't know who's fought harder you about my rulings or the Thugs... seriously burnt out

I understand. K2 is a doorway.

Craggark will be in K3.

I meant to be respectful in my last post. I'm sorry that I did not come across as such.

I hope that, when this thug finally goes down, we can all agree to take out the dice generator next.

HUZZAH, THE GAME IS BACK!

Just to clarify, are we using the map from the Gameplay thread still or the new one Jamir posted? Just so I know which one is "official" so I'm not making erroneous assumptions when my turn comes back around.

I don't believe the original map has been updated in a few rounds. I have been trying to keep up with the map in Google Slides, which is now located in the shared "Written in Blood" Google Drive folder (which probably has gotten our GM on some kind of security watchlist).

Craggark & Torvald: Jawhar is at -8, with a 10 CON. We have very little time to save him. These are what I see as our options:

Torvald, do you have a wand of CLW? If so, can you use it on Jawhar this round?

If not, we have your turns remaining in this round to take out the thug. If he drops or vacates the area, Craggark, can you hand your wand of CLW to Torvald, and Torvald, you use it on Jawhar immediately?

If the thug doesn't go down or run off, Jamir is going to accept the attack of opportunity and start pouring his potion of CLW into Jawhar.

Any other thoughts?

I can attack with flank, take my 5 foot step to J3 and fish out my wand of CLW for Torvald to take from me if he steps to I3.

Sound like a plan?

I think our best bet is to eliminate the thug as fast as possible so that Jamir can use his potion, I don't have any ranks in UMD.

I can't hit the guy directly because the splash would kill Jawhar, but I think I can chuck bombs at K1 and hit the thug with splash damage. Even with a successful save he's taking 2 fire, he might decide that discretion is the better part of valor once it's 3-to-1.

Or I could drink my Shield potion and then attempt Aid Another attacks in melee for Craggark? Jamir can use his potion and eat the AoO, I just don't think my chances of getting the wand to work in time are very high.

Torvald, can't an Alchemist use a Wand of CLW? You have the spell on your extract list.

Ah, I always forget which items an alchemist can and can't use.

I think Torvald is still lying down - I don't think he would have enough actions to get up, step over, take the wand, and use it all in one round anyway (or to stand up, take the Shield potion, step over to be adjacent to Craggark, and aid another). Maybe the bomb to K-1 would be best. Definitely don't take a chance on splash damage to Jawhar.

Or use your standard action to try to stabilize Jawhar with Heal - looks like a 50/50 chance with your bonus, and it would buy us a little bit of leeway without putting you at risk of an AoO - Jamir has 12/12 hp left, he can take a couple of hits before he goes down. Torvald and Craggark, not so much.

My plan on my move was to use my move action to take "Improved Grapple" and then attack. I get a +1 bonus with the dan bong along with the +2 flank that you provide, Jamir. That's a +9 total with my CMB roll. Once grappled, our punching bag of a thug won't be able to take AoAs.

Jamir, I suggest you hold your action. Let me go and grapple him with your flank bonus. I think if I get him, you can use your potion on Jawhar. Torvald, I would suggest targeting the thug directly, and I'll take the 1hp of splash damage gladly.

I think a version of Craggark's plan is what we need to do, just delayed to next round. Again, these are just intended as my suggestions.

This round (round 11, I believe, not counting the surprise round):
- Jamir has already used his turn. I wasn't sufficiently focused on the brutal math of Jawhar's imminent demise. It is possible, but not likely, that Jamir's hit was enough to drop, disable, or drive off Thug. If so, fine, we can all focus on healing Jawhar. Assume that it is not enough, and Thug is still in the picture.
- Thug is up next - presumably, he will attack Jamir, as he seems unaccountably fixated on the halfling at the moment. That leaves Craggark and Torvald still up in this round. Torvald, you might want to defer to Craggark, so that if the Thug goes down or bugs out, you can still act, but in this round it doesn't really matter which of you goes before the other - next round, if we're still in initiative, it does.
- Craggark attacks. You know your character's abilities best, but it seems to me that if you grapple the thug, you might have trouble retrieving your wand next round - and that is the most important action any of us will make. And unless your grapple moves Thug away from Jawhar, Torvald still can't afford to throw a bomb at him, because the splash will hit Jawhar (I think you may also be underestimating the splash damage from a bomb, but I'm not positive). I suggest sticking with the patented Craggark Bone-Cruncher - just punch the SOB in the face (and no power attack - we can't afford the penalty).
- if Thug doesn't drop or withdraw, Torvald stands up and takes whichever standard action makes sense to him at the time - either bomb to K-1 or heal check to stabilize Jawhar.
End of round 11

Next round (round 12):
- Jamir pulls out his potion of CLW, 5-foots into Jawhar's square to shield him and the potion bottle from Thug, and starts pouring it down Jawhar's throat.
- Jawhar rolls to stabilize (?)
- Thug takes attack of opportunity at Jamir.
- Craggark attacks the Thug again, 5-foots to J-3, move action to withdraw the wand. This is why Craggark MUST go before Torvald this round. Thug should not be able to take an AoO while you retrieve the wand because he should already have taken one against Jamir.
- Torvald, like I said to Craggark, you know your character's abilities better than I do, but is it possible you're wrong on the wand issue? Per the APG, p. 27: "An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formuale list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so)." Wands are spell-trigger items (CRB, p. 496), and CLW is on the alchemist formulae list. If you can use the wand, then as Craggark suggested earlier, you could step to I-3, take the wand from him (again, Thug should already have taken his AoO for the round), and use it to cast CLW on Jawhar. It almost certainly won't be enough to wake him up, but even minimum healing will stabilize him and buy another couple of rounds. If not, I think we need the best heal check you can give him.
- The potion will not take effect until the top of round 13.

Right. No grapple, so this round Craggark will use his move action to take Dedicated Adversary to get a +2 to hit and damage. Then I will strike. Next round as per Jamir.

I'm out of action for the next 4-5hrs.

Right. No grapple, so this round Craggark will use his move action to take Dedicated Adversary to get a +2 to hit and damage. Then I will strike. Next round as per Jamir.

I'm out of action for the next 4-5hrs.

Sounds good. Lucklesshero should be back in about 24 hours based on his last post, so we have time to finish working out the big plan before then.

Of course, if it turns out that Jamir dropped the Thug with his last attack, this will all have been a lovely academic exercise, but that result would be ok with me. If Thug is out of the picture, Jamir can just wake up Jawhar again with the smelling salts and give him the potion to drink himself (standard action).

Jawhar, do you have any more channel? Because I have a really bad idea that could get you up earlier.

Yes. 3 left. If you happen to wake me up in a place where I'm not going to get killed again, I'll be fine healing myself. No need to resort to consumables quite yet.

Yes. 3 left. If you happen to wake me up in a place where I'm not going to get killed again, I'll be fine healing myself. No need to resort to consumables quite yet.

That's the hard part, unfortunately. If we're lucky, Craggark and Torvald will take him down by the end of the round. If not, I think we need to go the potion and wand route, because we really need to stop Jawhar from bleeding out ASAP.

I was trying to figure out a way around the problem we have had each of the previous attempts - that the thug has had his turn immediately after you channeled. So I was thinking that at the start of the next round, Jamir could defer his action, let the thug attack him, then provoke an AoO against himself by giving you the smelling salts again, you could channel, and Torvald and Craggark would each have another chance to take the guy down before the end of the round before he could try taking Jawhar's head off again.

But that goes back to whether you can "defer" your action while unconscious. I suspect that moving it to after the enemy has gone would be a bit much.

Reread my class abilities. While technically not a spellcaster I can use spell-trigger items if I know the spell as a formula. Since wands are spell-trigger I can, in fact, use the wand.

So if Craggark wants to draw the wand and toss it into Torvald's square, he can Move-Action pick it up and then Standard Action heal Jawhar with it.

That'll leave both of us prone, though, and Thug may decide to smack one of us, but that's an acceptable risk I think.

I don't think that's a good plan for the next round, but maybe the round after. Torvald still needs to stand up. Headed to bed now - I'll discuss more if needed in the morning here.

Jawhar will likely be dead by the time Torvald acts in the second round.

Jawhar will likely be dead by the time Torvald acts in the second round.

Why? He's at -8 now (middle of round 11). Short of the Thug sacrificing himself just to make a CDG, which I can't see happening, by the end of round 12 Jawhar should be at -9. Too close for comfort, but not dead. Am I missing something?

I was responding to Craggark.

He was suggesting delaying the wand until Round 13, I think.

Got it - based on his post before that, I thought he meant Torvald's next turn (which is this round, round 11), so the "round after" would still be 12. Yes, Jawhar is probably dead by Torvald's turn in round 13 if he isn't stabilized or healed by then. We won't let it get that far.

I don't need to be standing to use the wand though. No reason for it to take that long.

Fair enough. And I know I am seriously overthinking this. But here goes:

Round 11 (in progress): If the Thug is still standing and takes his attack of opportunity against Jamir and attacks Jamir on his turn (which is next in line), Craggark could forego his attack and instead use his turn to walk over to Torvald (move action), retrieve the wand (move action), and drop it to Torvald (free action). Torvald could pick it up/catch it (move action), and cast CLW (standard). That leaves, at the end of round 11: Thorvald still prone but not threatened, Jawhar stable and better off than he was, but still prone, probably unconscious/disabled, and threatened, and Craggark no longer flanking Thug with Jamir.

At the top of round 12, if the CLW healed at or near its maximum, Jawhar could be conscious at 0 or 1 HP and can channel before the Thug gets a chance to attack him, probably bringing his HP high enough that even if the Thug attacks him on his turn Jawhar would still be better off than he is now, and Torvald and Craggark will be closer to full. Jamir could attack Thug before his turn, so there is still once chance to take him down before he attacks Jawhar, but he gets no flanking bonus, so has less than 50% chance to hit. If he misses or doesn't do enough damage, Thug goes, then Torvald and Craggark go and we probably take Thug down then.

If the wand doesn't heal enough to wake Jawhar up, though, we have lost 1 or 2 good chances to take out Thug, and possibly made Jawhar a target again.

I am willing to go either way here. Like I said, I know I'm over-thinking this. I'm interested in your thoughts, and Jawhar's and Craggark's, and in any case, I expect any plan will have to adjust once lucklesshero is back online and we learn what Thug is doing.

I'd be happy simply being stable.

Maybe for Round 11 Craggark should just try to take the thug out and Torvald can make a stabilization attempt.

If that fails, there is still time for the wand in Round 12.

I doubt that my being conscious is going to make much difference in the battle at this point. Unconscious and stable, I am probably not a target.

Ok let me see if I have this right:

This round:
Thug up next
Craggark
Torvald (if he hold his action)

If the thug moves out of flank, then attacks Jamir, I think I will move to give the wand to Torvald. If the thug stays in the flank position, I'll stay there to attack with flank this round and move to give the wand next round.

Either way, Torvald will have the wand of CLW by next round.

Cool?

I think that makes the most sense, yes.

Torvald, I know it's getting late by you - are you in agreement (including holding your action - whichever of your options you decide on - until Craggark's turn is done)?

Ok I'm back could someone update me? is it thugs turn? The "official map is Jamir's map from this point..if I have an issue with where an avatar is placed I'll let him know...continue to put your position in the head of your post in the game play thread example:

GM (starting in F-2) takes his Dice of smiting waves them over his head and says I'm the master of the Grid!..A bunch of meaningless rhetoric issues forth from his mouth, as he cast the evil aligned spell know as the Trump effect!

I probably trying too hard to be funny again....fyi I'm neither a democrat or Republican... I've been independent voter for about 20 years now. I'm an equal opportunity insult machine when it comes to criticizing the government.

Ok I'm back could someone update me? is it thugs turn? The "official map is Jamir's map from this point..if I have an issue with where an avatar is placed I'll let him know...continue to put your position in the head of your post in the game play thread example:

GM wrote:

GM (starting in F-2) takes his Dice of smiting waves them over his head and says I'm the master of the Grid!..A bunch of meaningless rhetoric issues forth from his mouth, as he cast the evil aligned spell know as the Trump effect!

I probably trying too hard to be funny again....fyi I'm neither a democrat or Republican... I've been independent voter for about 20 years now. I'm an equal opportunity insult machine when it comes to criticizing the government.

Welcome back! We're partway into round 11. Thug gets an AoO against Jamir as Jamir moves from I-3 to I-1, Jamir hit Thug for 3hp. If he's still standing - and I expect he is - it's his turn. Then Craggark and Torvald (T is still prone).

Welcome back, GM.

We think it's the thug's turn currently.

I must apologise for coming across as overly critical and grumpy during this combat. You were gracious when I criticised about second-guessing our combat moves during the early parts of this epic battle, and I thank you for that.

You are the judge and the executor (hopefully, not executioner) of this game, and you're the one that makes it all possible. Without you, we'd be rudderless. Your game has been LOADS of fun, and I'd like to continue it.

I'm sorry if I've been dense or misunderstanding things. Any questions that I might ask from here on will be clarification questions, not critiques or requests for rule references.

We're all very excited to keep going. I'll shut my yap and let that happen.

Again, welcome back.

-Craggark

Torvald, are you armed with a melee weapon? (Not an extract) - never mind, you're still prone.

Ok, flank is gone and Jamir is badly hurt.

There's no healing Jawhar while the f!&@ing a$++#+! of a s$@@head is standing on him.

I think Craggark should take Improved Grapple, grapple him, and prevent further AoAs this round.

Thoughts?

Torvald is prone. I don't think he counts for flank while prone - though I'm happy to be wrong.

Responding to GM's post in Gameplay: All good. Map is updated, Jamir is at 3HP. If I recall correctly, Torvald is wearing a gauntlet, and therefore is considered threatening for flanking purposes, if Craggark were to 5-foot step into J-4 - do I have that right?

Torvald, are you armed with a melee weapon? (Not an extract) - never mind, you're still prone.

Ok, flank is gone and Jamir is badly hurt.

There's no healing Jawhar while the f$*$ing a!#$#!& of a s!&+head is standing on him.

I think Craggark should take Improved Grapple, grapple him, and prevent further AoAs this round.

Thoughts?

Why would he get another AoO this round?

It looks like I may be wrong.

GM? Your thoughts?

Jamir, I meant next round.

If I grapple this s%!* this round, we won't have to worry about AoAs. Alternately, I attack with flank and Dedicated Adversary and Power Attack, that's a +7 to attack and a 1d6+7 to damage.

Oh, I just answered my own question. I'm going to step to J4 and end this nightmare with a Power Attack.

All good?

There isn't anything in the description of the prone condition that suggests it affects whether you threaten. He doesn't have a melee weapon in hand that I'm aware of, but I think his gauntlet counts. 5-foot step to J-4, see what happens.

I'll await our GM weighing in.

I'll await our GM weighing in.

Why? You made your decision about your action - you're only uncertain about whether you get the flanking bonus, but he'll add it in if appropriate when he resolves the attack.

Responding to GM's post in Gameplay: All good. Map is updated, Jamir is at 3HP. If I recall correctly, Torvald is wearing a gauntlet, and therefore is considered threatening for flanking purposes, if Craggark were to 5-foot step into J-4 - do I have that right?

yes ur are flanking even when prone

Figured out where I read about gauntlets being enough to threaten for a flank.

Edit: ninja'd by the GM!

Cool!

Ok, we're off the clock until Torvald gets up in the morning. Unless this mook has Combat Reflexes - which would be a little much - Torvald should be able to stand up as his move action without taking an attack of opportunity. His choices are pretty much the same as they were before: (1) toss a bomb targeting the square just past the Thug to avoid splash damage to Jawhar (H-4 would also avoid splash damage to Craggark), so that the Thug takes the splash damage, or (2) make a Heal check to stabilize Jawhar.

We'll figure out round 12 when we see how Torvald's turn resolves itself.

Sorry, I need an initiative order refresher

I think it is:
Jamir
Jawhar
Thug
Torvald
Craggark

How could Torvald possibly be free from AoO if he is immediately after the Thug?

So far this round it appears the following actions have happened:
1. Jamir provoked an AoO and attacked
2. Jawhar failed to Stabilize
3. Thug attacked Jamir
4. Torvald is pending
5. Craggark missed his attack

Torvald is going to provoke no matter what since he can't 5-foot step while prone.

The thug already took his AoA against Jamir this round. You only get one AoA unless you have the feat Combat Reflexes.

Right.

Jawhar, we may be stuck with the smelling salts and channel again if Torvald doesn't either stabilize you or get rid of the threat from the Thug.

I swear. Luck hasn't been a lady tonite.

The thug already took his AoA against Jamir this round. You only get one AoA unless you have the feat Combat Reflexes.

He took his AoO on Jamir's turn, then had his own action which reset the AoO counter, correct?

Now it is Torvald's turn.

Are you saying that the rules state one AoO per actual round, not per his round (Thug action to Thug action)? If so, I've been playing that wrong forever.

"Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don’t have to make an attack of opportunity if you don’t want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you’ve already attacked in the round."

As I have always understood it, "per round" and "the round" here refer to the combat round, e.g., round 11.

Torvald has now acted, so round 11 is over, and round 12 resets the counter.