Way back in book 1, they didn't bring him. So, he's not here now.
"There is a chance that I might be able to knock the thing down with a bomb, which should give you an easier time of it - no guarantees, of course."Force bomb*: [...] An alchemist must be at least 8th level before selecting this discovery.A chance...? you must be feeling VERY lucky ;)
I'm not 8th level so I haven't taken it (Morvius here); I was thinking of - well, you'll see... :)
Hello, I am just getting over the flu, and I may not have a chance to post until this evening.
I don't want everyone to continue to wait though, so Aerent follows Oret's suggestions.
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good to hear you're getting better, Aerent :)
Morv, I'm not so sure how an apple-sized bomb can produce enough force to faceplant a dragon. That is rules as written, but a ranged touch attack vs. a reflex save seems unfair. it vexes me :)
I get that the bomb causes a reflex save instead of an even more awkward ranged trip attack, but I don't like an apple-splosion having such an impact on high CR creatures.
I'd like to propose a workaround: creatures get a size bonus on their reflex save vs a force effect. It makes sense to me that a tiny creature is just blown away, and a heavy, ancient dragon is much more difficult to shove aside.
I'd love to hear how you lot think about force bombs!
So, Oret, what happens next?
I would agree with that. A dragon would be very unlikely to dodge it but very likely to just shrug it off. Similar to how their AC decreases with size, but their natural armor increases at a faster rate.
That sounds like an eminently sensible fix - force bombs already go straight through DR and do full damage to incorporeals; the ability to put a Great Wyrm flat on its back is just overkill.
Hope you are no longer so terribly vexed, IB_Commodus...
Oret, now that Aerent has checked in (hope you feel better by the way), I think we're just waiting for your signal - is that right?
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I like how that rhymes.
MAKE IT BURNNNN!
I bet Sindran is proud of me right now.
Sorry DM, couple questions/comments
1 Apologies if we're supposed to let you roll initiative, didn't know
2 Does my knowledge roll give me any useful info I can use to help the others - other than "try not to get trampled on!"?
No probs, my entry was a bit wall-of-text - it's my first pbp combat so I went a bit overboard; first time is always special...
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hmmm, I have some concern here.
1)what the hell is a grease bomb and what's it doing barking up my tree? google doesn't know it, prd doesn't know it. And why does it grease *and* do damage :) that seems too good to be true?
2) if it exists, I'm inclined to use the size bonus thing we discussed earlier on this as well for the exact same reason.
You're going to make me link from my phone, aren't you. Of course you are. Ok. Rules for grease bombs are found here.
Bombs always do damage in addition to other effects - see the FAQ ruling on the smoke bomb entry.
You're the DM and your word is law - but the grease bomb rule states that it works per the spell - and I can see a bigger creature falling heavier on grease than a lighter one (almost direct opposite of the force bomb, in fact). Also if it doesn't fall then I have serious concerns for Oret's survival prospects pinned beneath the tree...
EDIT And I see that in the time it took me to wrestle with my smartphone and put the link together (plus some snark) Talon Has long since posted the answer... Typical
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Jurak is written up as a normal treant.
I gave him the Giant template and 2 paladin levels (although the latter was mostly for holier-than-thou flavor) and you went through his 180 hitpoints like butter. It's quite scary.
Then again, if he'd focus a full round attack on one of you, it would be a one-shot kill.
I think I'll keep adding templates to your future opponents. Just to keep you on edge. Wouldn't want you to think it'd be easy, taking over a country.
you went through his 180 hitpoints like butter. It's quite scary.
If it makes you feel any better, it was only really 120 HP's as we killed him with fire... But yeah, we are pretty awesome. Go us (and thanks for letting me join in the fun)!
The way I read the Alchemist bomb ability is that all bombs do fire damage, and they can stack one discovery with it, which in this case is grease.
It seems quite powerful in this instance I'll grant you IB, but I think against creatures weak to fire damage it probably seems worse than it really is. The reality is that the average damage for a 4d6+5 damage bomb would be 19, which isn't out of line with a fireball from Cala's CL5 wand.
I think this poor Treant just had the misfortune of discovering first hand that the 9th Knot has its fair share of pyromaniacs...
Hi all
Just to let you know that it's my Dearly Beloved's birthday this weekend so I will be AFK until at least Sunday night (probably Monday morning).
If you want to bot Morvius, please feel free - he's taken 21hp damage (and more importantly his cloak is shredded!) and has used a couple of his extracts but has several remaining; including Detect Secret Doors, which may come in handy if you want to explore.
I've updated his character sheet to reflect the activity so far (here).
Sorry for any inconvenience.
As a DM, the way I've treated grease is to house-rule that anything that can fly doesn't fall if it fails a check, it just takes a move action to hold itself up. That way, dragons, balors, etc. aren't face-planted just because they happen to be on the ground.
And yes, anything vulnerable to fire is in for a bad time against us - but so is the whole of Andoran...
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The reality is that the average damage for a 4d6+5 damage bomb would be 19, which isn't out of line with a fireball from Cala's CL5 wand.
fireball - yes, but this bomb has a Quickened Grease spell added to it - that's not even remotely available to you yet.
For that reason I think bombs should be nerfed to EITHER do damage OR do some discovery thing. Does anyone know of anything official on this that I should look at?EDIT : I like your if fly speed => no fall, much easier than messing around with size bonuses.
The reality is that the average damage for a 4d6+5 damage bomb would be 19, which isn't out of line with a fireball from Cala's CL5 wand.fireball - yes, but this bomb has a Quickened Grease spell added to it - that's not even remotely available to you yet.
For that reason I think bombs should be nerfed to EITHER do damage OR do some discovery thing. Does anyone know of anything official on this that I should look at?EDIT : I like your if fly speed => no fall, much easier than messing around with size bonuses.
Ya I was never a fan of some of the classes in the 'Ultimate' books. Despite them being combat superior, some of 'em are just damn complicated.
I am not a huge fan of the alchemist class, but I don't think you should change bombs to either damage or effect. That is a massive change to one of their core class abilities. Don't get me wrong, I understand exactly where you're coming from, but their bombs, and the accompanying discoveries, are what they do as a class.
In this particular fight, we had a full party fighting against a single foe with a weakness to many of our abilities. Economy of actions alone were against our opponent, and to your point, if the dice had not been so much in our favor, things could have gotten dicey if he smacked Talon or Oret around a bit more.
Point being, the addition of grease really didn't have any effect on the outcome; it might seem overpowered, but it's an effect that really depends on poor dice rolling by the DM.
Just my thoughts.
I can't believe I'm defending alchemists... :)
Thanks all for the supportive comments regarding the bombs!
I've never played an alchemist before (I tend to play full casters, but Cala and Sindran have that covered) and it seemed like an interesting class to try out. I'd be curious to know your reservations, Aerent (maybe PM me to avoid side-tracking this discussion page?) - compared with the other newer classes they've not got the one-shot kill abilities of the magus or the action economy of the summoner and they're not full casters like the oracle...
Oh and no problems, IB - I have no doubt you will make their finale something to remember!
Hey now, only on crits! Talon does seem unreasonably lucky though...
Lol
I disagree on the no one-shot. Bombs can be . . . painful. Anyway, they're quite versatile. Their bombs can have many effects if you choose that route, but on the other hand they've got quite a lot of self-buffs like their mutagen so you can get up close and personal if you prefer. They're also one of the ways you can share 'self' spells with non-casters by handing them an infusion.
Sorry for the delay... it's going to be a busy week, but I'm going to try and post at least once a day.
As to the throne, I think I've got it:
Sit in the throne in I-27, recite the keyword "Yah" in Abyssal and whoever is sitting in the throne is transported to the throne room in 2-20, either that or both thrones lead to a safe location on the 3rd level.
Oh what the...last time I looked at gameplay we just killed the treant! Forums haven't been updating me...
I disagree on the no one-shot. Bombs can be . . . painful.
True - but at level 11, a mage can fire chain lightning (11D6 damage to 11 separate mooks), or a disintegrate spell (which does 22D6 damage to one target). At level 11, a bomb does
Agreed on the versatility, though - that's something I'm beginning to appreciate.
Try lv 15 mages. Spell perfection, maximize a horrid wilting. The effects are fantastic
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Morvius, you seem rather well-spoken for an ugly thing with CHA 6. (isn't that what you meant, talon?)
Now I much prefer you well-spoken rather than gruff (besides, Oret's got that covered) since your speaches are what got you into this job in the first place - they're well worth being spoken. But unless you concoct a daily dose of Glibness, which would make sense although it'd be expensive, I think it would be fair to the others if we would move stats around to fit the evolving character.
I've also noticed Morvius is sometimes a little slow on the uptake - a little low on wisdom perhaps? Would it make sense to swap WIS and CHA?
This is quite invasive, I know. I'm just trying to do what's both fun and fair.
-or wait-
maybe I'm misreading your posts; you could be a Sheldon. Intelligent to a fault, but in need of subtitles for any and all communication.
that's less invasive and more in line with your original idea; okay, I guess it boils down to:
tl;dr please don't stop talking and please do be a little more socially clumsy.
"My dear, dear boy, there's more than one way to be low Charisma - but you seem toward the end of your post to have worked that one out for yourself; well done! Perhaps there is hope for you yet...
"You see, a tendency toward sesquipedalian loquacity is not fundamentally incompatible with a tendency toward low social skills. You referenced Sheldon Cooper; he is of course one such example - but I was aiming my sights at something a little more ... cultured.
"Ultimately, my it comes down to nuance: someone with greater social skills is far more adept at adapting to social circumstance. Myself, now, I have but a few simple rules with little in the way of nuance: if it's weaker, bully it (see Zikomo, treatment of; also Talon - back when I mistook him for a mere thug, we're QUITE made up now...); if it's equal, then politeness - mixed with condescension (see team-mates, treatment of); if it's more powerful, then flatter it (see Daemons, treatment of).
"You have proposed an alternative which involves swapping around Wis and Cha. Since I catastrophically failed the single Will save that I have been required to take so far, then that does not strike me as implausible (look, a double negative!) - if you require that then I can of course comply.
"However, I hope that this little ... treatise ... has persuaded you that a certain degree of eloquent circumlocution does not a high Charisma make. Or perhaps I should insult you some more?"
Well, might as well roll that intelligence check and see if there might be something I'm missing with respect to the thrones. I'm pretty sure that it's probably something along those lines, but better safe then sorry.
Not bad. Any last hints before we go experimenting with the thrones IB?
-or wait-
maybe I'm misreading your posts; you could be a Sheldon. Intelligent to a fault, but in need of subtitles for any and all communication.
that's less invasive and more in line with your original idea; okay, I guess it boils down to:
tl;dr please don't stop talking and please do be a little more socially clumsy.
If it's any help IB, that's kinda how I've read Morvius so far... knowing that he has 6 CHR, I have read his polite and well spoken manner to interpreted as contrived, condescending, and lacking any subtlety by most people, which probably isn't his intent (Sheldon is also entirely unaware of his lack of social graces in many cases, as I'm sure Morvius is).
Cala would kinda be the opposite in this respect; she very often comes off as cruel, cold and blunt... but she has 18 Charisma, which means most people read something else entirely from her. I often think that Cala in this case would have the same kind of hold over people that a diva would, in other words she can be quite nasty to them, and they're still drawn to her because of her beauty and talent. Being self aware, Cala can also fain charm and kindness when she wants.
You know... I think I just described a sociopath, which I guess makes total sense for this campaign).
Woot. Psych 101.
-or wait-
maybe I'm misreading your posts; you could be a Sheldon. Intelligent to a fault, but in need of subtitles for any and all communication.
that's less invasive and more in line with your original idea; okay, I guess it boils down to:
tl;dr please don't stop talking and please do be a little more socially clumsy.If it's any help IB, that's kinda how I've read Morvius so far... knowing that he has 6 CHR, I have read his polite and well spoken manner to interpreted as contrived, condescending, and lacking any subtlety by most people, which probably isn't his intent (Sheldon is also entirely unaware of his lack of social graces in many cases, as I'm sure Morvius is).
Cala would kinda be the opposite in this respect; she very often comes off as cruel, cold and blunt... but she has 18 Charisma, which means most people read something else entirely from her. I often think that Cala in this case would have the same kind of hold over people that a diva would, in other words she can be quite nasty to them, and they're still drawn to her because of her beauty and talent. Being self aware, Cala can also fain charm and kindness when she wants.
You know... I think I just described a sociopath, which I guess makes total sense for this campaign).
Woot. Psych 101.
This is why Talon is protective of Cala and wants to gut Morvius
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whahahaha, well you've sold me :) Well said.
There's no need to fix Morvius then.
It's probably harmless -if anticlimatic- if you try to use a password the wrong way.
This is why Talon is protective of Cala and wants to gut Morvius
Talon, of course, isn't on Morvius' radar at all - he aspires to be rather more than the tool of some psychotic elf-maid... ;)
BTW is this a recon mission or are we off to kill the elemental? If the latter, do we want to wait for Aerent/Oret to check in?
Try lv 15 mages. Spell perfection, maximize a horrid wilting. The effects are fantastic
Nice! - and 2 levels up from that a magical lineage Dazing Intensified Maximised fireball (quickened with Spell Perfection) can put a cramp on anyone's style...
Ah, full casters... Joy unconfined
This is why Talon is protective of Cala and wants to gut MorviusTalon, of course, isn't on Morvius' radar at all - he aspires to be rather more than the tool of some psychotic elf-maid... ;)
Hey hey now, she is a sociopath... and I'll remind you that just about everybody in this group is just as bad ;)
This is a 'show me the f*kkin seal - NOW' type mission.
Yeah, I gathered that lol... these creatures are awfully impatient for omnipotent beings. You'd think after 80 years, they could wait a few more days!
Sorry for absence, thought I posted but I guess I just imagined it.
Morvius, just from a DM perspective, I find the alchemist class (and its archetypes) hard to adjudicate. Personal taste moreso than anything else. :)
Cala - and I said psychotic, not psychopathic - I am Lawful, I choose my words carefully... :)
As for everyone else being just as bad, you have me there! No argument
Aerent - 's fair comment, given IB is having the same issues!