The Tragedy of Hero's (Inactive)

Game Master fnord72

Well, I've transcribed Hase into google docs and summarised most of him into the profile in stat block (with links to the way more detailed docs).

I'm still going to have to stat up a Raven Familiar, his Cohort Rogar and his mount (a Shield Guardian Golem).

Also still have to get all the spells. That's a lot of spells.

Looked like no-one was doing blasting, so I've concentrated on blasting and a bit of healing.

I'm a bit worried I'm letting the side down after looking at the saves and AC of everyone else. If people have suggestions I'm happy to take them.

I've ended up grabbing a demiplane as well - Witches can't cast gate except from their own demiplane. I figure when Hase wants to go somewhere he plane shifts to the plane. He can plane shift home okay. If he wants to commute to the same place he casts Guiding Star, plane shifts home and then makes a gate to the star.

I's like his demiplane to be a small cottage - actually a number of small cottages. Each cottage looks a lot like a Tiny Hut, with gingerbreading around the doors. Touch the gingerbread and open the door and you can walk into a different cottage. Just open the door and you go to a random cottage. Is that okay? Rooms would then be describable by their combinations (like Dog-Dog-Raven-Cat). Metaphysically it'd be a closed loop plane with the doors opening onto the border or a gate.

There's not much more you can do to increase your saves and AC.
As a witch, you're bound to have lower scores in those areas than, say, a dex-based rogue, to the extent where I really doubt you'll get much use of your evasion ability, to the point where I'd even ditch it (you get it from the ring of evasion, right?).
Moment of Prescience and Mind Blank are very nice spells to keep up the whole day. Clone is a safe bet in case of danger. Greater Heroism and Death Ward help with saves and other bad stuff. Then it depends on your patron spells... I love the patron with invisibility for this purpose, but I'm somewhat biased :D

I thought our sorcerer focused heavily on the fireball spell, and our cleric mentioned he'd be using offensive spells (not sure now that he's going to worship Nethys though).

Assuming we got crowd-control, debuffs, buffs and utility covered, blasting sounds fine. I always envisioned witches being excellent debuffers due to their hexes though... debuff + save or suck/lose/die seems somewhat more efficient than pure blast. You can also choose to leave the damage dealing to summoned minions and lowly nonmagical ninjas, and instead use high level magic to turn the multiverse upside down :D
Don't forget that you can leave some slots empty to cherry-pick spells later as need rises.

Sigh, everybody and their mother got a demiplane now, Vanshoon will have to beg for hospitality :P

Hey my demiplanes are purely background. ;)

Yeah my guy is going to be kinda half and half on healing and offensive spells. Not really a problem sense I can channel positive energy and convert spells to cure types as needed. I am currently working on the backstory. His basic crunch is pretty much done, then on to gear.

@Vanshoon
Hmmmm I thought the sorcerer fireball was just a vehicle for metamagic.

You're right about the save-and-suck though. DC 32 fort save (ice tomb) or will save (sleep) or be out of the fight.
Witches do do good summoning, but I thought that would be the province of the cleric and the summoner.

I'm hoping to go Irrisen Ice Witch, but like other people I'm waiting for the Paths of Prestige PDF to come out.

Without meaning to whine, the witch spell list doesn't seem so great. The Hexes mean they don't need to cast every round though, and can be quite powerful. I'm actually really tempted by the Pathfinder Savant though - the ability to cherrypick a few spells would be amazing.

Equipment wise, I should probably say that I spent 200K of the starting money on a shield golem dog mount. If I didn't do that I could get better armour and maybe up my saves by another 2 points across the board easy. I'm hoping the perm shield other effect makes it worthwhile :|

I got a bit of writers block while doing the backstory so I finished the crunch, he is an unoffical tank as it turns out. Now I just need to find my muse again to complete the backstory and knowledge DC's. Spells are still on the backburner. And yes I know I kept the island location, its a good spot and I am keeping it even if it as yet has a place in my backstory. xP

Don't be sad Vanshoon, Derric doesn't have a demiplane anymore, just a castle near a rift in reality.

Well finally finished my background and the knowledge DC's. So all that is left is spells. If anyone reads the background I warn you now its longer then my last one. But I think it will give you a few chuckles here and there. ;)

Good evening folks,

I will be doing final run through's on characters and sending PM's to get the ball rolling in the next day or two.

Since everyone is epic, I would expect that each of you would have some vague knowledge of each other. Being best buddies is not required at this point.

For those casters that need to prepare in advance, I would assume that you have more than one list of spells (combat, travel, crafting, everyday).

I would also like everyone to review their equipment and identify what they normally carry with them, and what is generally sitting on the table next to their favorite recliner (or in a closet, the guest suite, the dungeon/library/etc).

I hope that everyone is excited to get this campaign going, I know that I am!

Regards,

Your loving and evil DM... bwahahahaha

Ah forgot about leadership.

Base-28 (lvl+cha)
Background-34 (lvl+cha+great renown+fairness+special power+stronghold)

Let me know of anything is off or needs changing. Got to think of a cohort, if I remember right they need to be from core classes and get heroic NPC cash.

I was looking at a level 17 crafting wizard cohort who, I have discovered, is insufficient level to build the damn golem.

Vanshoon is almost always on the move, so his stuff is with him pratically all the time.
Stuff marked with # is in the handy haversack, stuff with § in the efficient quiver, the rest is worn.

I'll be out of town till tomorrow night, so I won't be able to post anything in gameplay till about 11.30 pm ECT.
Can't wait to see it started! :D

alright. Rebuilt without golem. Rewriting profile now.

My spells are now up. Feel free to make suggestions I am not a cleric spell expert. I think its a good balance, any healing spells needed can be converted into cure spells. Along with my ability to channel positive and negitive energy, given people are in range I can heal or attack. It pays to stick close to the cleric. ;)

May need to get a wand of spectral hand if being in touch range becomes an issue.

Restoration is a necessary spell. Does anybody else in the group have it?

You could swap out the destruction spells for greater restoration. At this level, status effects are going to be a big player, and we need ways of dealing with nasty diseases, poisons, ability drains, and negative levels, and Xara has none of that stuff.

So you want me to take spells that deal with ability drains, negitive levels, and curses?

It's just that the cleric lists has those spells, whereas the sorcerer list doesn't and neither does Xara's. I'm not familiar enough with the witch spell list to say if it has them or not. Heal takes away a lot of status effects and ability damage, but not drain.

Of course, the wish/miracle line can duplicate them, and Xara can summon extra-planar friends that have that ability, so it's not required that you take them.

Lets try out combat before I switch spells to focus more on that. The reason I avoided restoration spells is because they are not cheap, they cost gold to use so I would rather use them after the fact if I have to, otherwise I would run out of gold and unable to cast them at all or have them take up space for no reason. Anyways I would hope our high saves would give us a chance, normally such attacks require a save to work. At least the spell counterparts do.

If we start getting negative leveled then I will make a point of preparing those spells, starting a fund too. But if your worried about it get a wand of death ward to defend from it, if you have UMD or give it someone who can use it.

Witch gets death ward, heal, remove curse, but not restoration. Restoration can only be cast by alchy, cleric, oracle, inquisitor, and pally. Their is a lesser restoration that cost nothing but its kinda weak for our lvl, maybe not even useful.

Is a ring of evasion even worth having with only a +17 Reflex save? Granted, she will probably have a ghaele azata summoned, whose aura boosts saves, and there will probably be other effects, but it seems so low against some of the big DC effects.

An ancient red has a DC 30 breath weapon. I guess that means with boosts, it's a 50-50 shot, so the ring reduces average damage to half instead of three-quarters. But an ancient red is a low CR critter for this group (sounds crazy, but it's true).

What AC and saves should we be aiming for to avoid becoming mush the first battle in?

Also, restoration only costs money when you're removing negative levels. Ability repair is free.

I have heal, the only reason I would use restoration would be for removing negative levels sense its one of the few things heal does not cover, not to mention it also heals damage so its 2 for 1. ;)

As for defenses my Reflex is +15 so your better off then me in that area. But really it depends on the part you play. If your a ranged type then your saves will be more important then AC, yet you still want to have a decent AC. Ranged types will more often be hit by spells and effects then melee where AC comes into play. While its the other way around with melee types sense they will be going toe to toe with things that are going to rely on hit rather then effects. In short get your defenses as high as you can, focusing on the defense that will be tested more often in your role. As a summoner you should never be in melee, if so your in deep trouble and need to back up from it.

I wonder what battles will be like at this level. The traditional dungeon crawl will probably be a distant memory. Will there be time to prepare for battles?

I agree that if Xara is ever in melee, I'm playing her wrong (and if something gets past the meat shield critters, I have Fritz's escape spell to rearrange the battlefield).

Speaking of cohorts, I was thinking of mine being an elven ranger with archery. For lack of a better idea. xP

As for battles I doubt alot of stuff can ambush us much less all the time. Anyways we do have a ninja so he should have stealth ability otherwise they would throw him out of the ninja club. ;)

Witch gets death ward, heal, remove curse, but not restoration. Restoration can only be cast by alchy, cleric, oracle, inquisitor, and pally. Their is a lesser restoration that cost nothing but its kinda weak for our lvl, maybe not even useful.

I took a patron that gets greater restoration.

I sort of feel that if people require components to heal/raise/restore we should take it out of the party budget.

From having briefly run a group of 20th level characters I can tell you that preparation is king. If you know what you're going to face you can cast the right spells. This is especially important for Gelein and Hase, who (if they can prepare) can be very flexible indeed, but if they can't are a bit potluck.

Xara has a couple summoning modes she can go in.

With Trig around, she's limited to one summon monster SLA active. If bodies and bruisers are needed, she goes 1d3+1 elder elementals. Fire elementals are good against things vulnerable to fire, but not much else, and water elementals are good if they're in the water. The really good ones are earth elementals, each of which controls a huge area of the battlefield and are tough, as well they hit hard. Air elementals are also nice, especially against anything with poor Reflex saves like golems or giants, because they just pick up a critter or two and carry them away, then come back for more, if they don't just go 200 feet up and let go (what kind of attack roll would you need to hit a giant on the ground with another giant from 200 feet up?). Elementals are neutral, too, so no worried about protection from good, etc.

If bodies aren't helpful, like being forced to fight in small areas, she'll bring out a ghaele azata, which functions a lot like a cleric, has a permanent holy aura (like the spell), and good buffs and status removers like death ward and restoration. They also have heal and unlimited cure light wounds, and since the guy will stick around for 20 minutes, he's even better than a happy stick. He also has unlimited aid spells (small potatoes at this level, but still handy).

Trig is a scout, so he can work with the ninja (just realized he has no Stealth skill to speak of, so I'll switch out the Acrobatics for that, and switch the bite evolution for skilled: Stealth; if he's ever reduced to actual physical combat, he's screwed anyway). Because of shared spells, he can basically use greater teleport himself to go with ninja places, leaving Xara back in safety (unfettered helps here). Most of the time, though, if they know they're going in to battle and they have time to prep, she'll be dismissing Trig (which will puss him off no end and probably cause Fritz to gloat a bit), but that way Xara can spam as many SMIX as we need.

If everyone has their characters finalized, we can start the introductions.

Please note that I will be taking the next couple days to work with each character through PM before starting the game from the brief intro in the original posting.

Having expensive spell components listed on your character sheet will be a good idea. Especially if you plan on using something like wish.

Are you okay with me using the google spreadsheet for detailed stuff? I like it works out weight and cost for me.

Is it okay if, instead of spending gold to make her plane permanent, we say she recasts the spells every 20 days or so (with the understanding that if anything should happen to detain her, her plane may go poof and dump her followers on the prime material)? Since she doesn't have create greater demiplane, she can't make a gate anyway, which would mean if she died, her followers would be stuck on that plane.

Having expensive spell components listed on your character sheet will be a good idea. Especially if you plan on using something like wish.

Could you define expensive, the rules say anything over 1 gp must be listed. But at our lvls it would take half the page to list material components and should you miss one without knowing then you prepared a spell you cant cast. Its a bit of hell.

At high lvls some DMs just wave it, if you have the gold that it would cost on you then you can cast it. Whatever you go with I am going to start looking thru all the spells anyways. So glad I did not go arcane this time. Miracle is free unless you ask for something huge in which case then it cost alot, serving a god pays. xD

Edit-Do we have to state our escape from death spells, like clone or word of recall?

I've made a few changes, cashing out the rod of absorption and downgrading her spiked gauntlet to +1 (she hasn't likely relied on melee since she only had enough wealth for a +1 weapon!). I then added a stone of good luck. The item says it grants a luck bonus to saves, skills, and ability checks. According to the prd, Initiative rolls are classified as Dexterity checks. Does that mean the luck bonus applies there too?

GM, any problem with creating a custom staff? I'd like to create the very popular staff of spells Xara likes but only one of which she can cast. This staff will contain death ward, anticipate peril and lesser rejuvenate eidolon. With two charges for the death ward, the cost would be 11,000 gp.

Custom magic items are ok, provided they follow the magic item creation rules and you are counting the full retail price against your gold on hand.

Frequently I will hand wave magic item costs of lower values, true res and wish are not likely to fall into this category. What I have done in the past is list something like this:

Spell Writing Materials 100g
Spell Components 250g

This ties the cash to a purpose, but is vague enough to not have to list how much material for which spell. If I come across a scroll and want to write it into my spell book in the middle of nowhere, then I can, and subtract the cost from the materials on hand.

In like manner, as long as the cost of expensive components is below the amount reserved for them, then you are assumed to have the necessary components.

In that case I will set aside 15000 gp which leaves me with almost no gold but is enough to buy one rez and a few restorations should they be needed. No one die early or get nega lvled until I have a bigger spell component pool please. xP

Hase, I'm ok with using a spreadsheet. Eitehr link or copy the material to your profile page.

Since you have a lot of custom gear, please post the cost math as well.

I also like seeing the math for skills.

Never-mind, I found your links.

The Scarab of protection crumbles to dust after it's uses are consumed. You have built in other components. What do you expect will happen when the scarab is consumed?

Am I missing your familiar?

Are we supposed to reply to the PM?

Heh, my stats are on my profile, stealth will not be a problem... I focused specifically on it, both via HiPS, greater invisibility (as a Su, no less), immunity to detect good/chaos/evil/law/magic and the highest stealth score I could afford without gimping my character and my concept... Maybe I'll take stealthy as my lvl 21st feat as well!
I can scout very well, I'm not focused on perception to the same degree but I can also pass through walls (either me or Ophelia) and get the job done... hopefully. :)
If you want me to report reliably, I'll probably need a telepathic bond of sort (best if its aura is removed afterwards), or you can wait for me to come back and forth.
About the restoration thing, death ward suppresses any and all negative level penalties while in effect, it's much better than (greater) restoration to cast in battle, just take a look at how much time it takes to actually cast the spell!

EDIT:
Same question here, are we supposed to reply to the PM?

If you have questions regarding your individual PM's you may reply to them, they are individualized at this point. You may, if you choose, also post your actions to the campaign page.

If you did not get a PM, I accidentally missed you, say something and I will get yours out.

And the PM's are the kickoff for the campaign, I am still verifying a couple of details with some of you, but as long as we get those cleared up in the next day or two, we should have everyone together before long.

Unless the character has actively been trying to hide themselves for the last 15 levels, I expect that each of you would know 'of' each other. I don't necessarily expect that you personally know each other.

Your characters are free to interact with each other as they might based on the starting events and their knowledge of each other.

The Scarab of protection crumbles to dust after it's uses are consumed. You have built in other components. What do you expect will happen when the scarab is consumed?

The Scarab will run out of charges and need to be recharged (reenchanted) by someone with Craft Wondrous Item.

Am I missing your familiar?

Yes. Is it legal to cast Mind Jar so a familiar can possess another body? If the body of the familiar is an extradimensional pocket I assume it is not "in range" for the purposes of Mind Jar?

So does anyone want to know of Gelein, if so what do you want to know?

Feel free to ask me stuff, also open to any connection background wise.

@DM: Hmmm does that mean that I have to post what I sent you via PM on the official discussion thread? :)

Heh, my stats are on my profile, stealth will not be a problem... I focused specifically on it, both via HiPS, greater invisibility (as a Su, no less), immunity to detect good/chaos/evil/law/magic and the highest stealth score I could afford without gimping my character and my concept... Maybe I'll take stealthy as my lvl 21st feat as well!

I can scout very well, I'm not focused on perception to the same degree but I can also pass through walls (either me or Ophelia) and get the job done... hopefully. :)
If you want me to report reliably, I'll probably need a telepathic bond of sort (best if its aura is removed afterwards), or you can wait for me to come back and forth.
About the restoration thing, death ward suppresses any and all negative level penalties while in effect, it's much better than (greater) restoration to cast in battle, just take a look at how much time it takes to actually cast the spell!

EDIT:
Same question here, are we supposed to reply to the PM?

Okay, there's no way of getting Trig up to a bleeping +53 Stealth score.

Can anybody else see a good role for Trig? Kamikaze meat shield? Trans-planar coffee fetcher?

Does what happened in my PM occur before or after the gold note appears?

Give him a CL 20 dispel magic wand, a good spellcraft score and set him to counterspell duty.
Or give him some good senses so he can pinpoint hidden stuff and a wand of glitterdust/faerie fire.
As you said, some low level buffs and/or healing would be awesome.
If he can also work as a natural flying mount, that'd be awesome for out-of-combat mobility.
Trans-planar coffee fetcher also. :)

If he has something to offer and can not truely be killed then I say use him. I mean just because he is not as strong as us does not mean he cant help. Every round we dont waste or bit of dmg we do can only help. Something powerful at 10 hp is still going to go all out against us, if he did 10 dmg and helped us kill it a round or two earlier then he served his purpose. Just make him useful.

@Hase Magic Jar is target self. while you could certainly share the spell with your familiar and then ask the familiar to cast the spell, thereby placing the familiar's physical body into a comatose state. Please note that possessing another creature is determined randomly from the creatures about. Your familiar may end up trying to possess you.

I am not sure why you would want to have your familiar possess another creature, you don't get their extraordinary or supernatural abilities. Your familiar would still have it's own base abilities and scores. Placing the body into a haversack, bag of holding, etc would certainly move the body out of range of the magic jar. You could place the magic jar and the familiar body into an extra dimensional space after a possession occurs. however this would have dire results if the host body were slain while the magic jar was in a pocket dimension.

@Xara Isn't Trig your Eidelon? Why are you saying it's only equal to a 10th level? I'm not familiar with summoners, so a little explanation would be good.

Xara, the PM is the evening after the note.

Well, one of his main uses is existing, allowing Xara to steal enough of his evolutions to gain at will flight for herself! :)

The caster level 20 dispel magic wand is hugely expensive, though I can see its value.

Have a look at his current wand selection. Are there any first or second level spells you can see him wanting to add? Bless and divine favour, perhaps?

@GM Yes, normally the eidolon of a 20th level summoner would be equivalent to a 20th level character in is own right, but Xara decided I just wasn't good enough for her, and wanted the ability to summon a whole bunch of other monsters, so she took an archetype that reduced me to half effective level, meaning I'm only as powerful as a 10th level normal summoner's eidolon.

And people wonder why I have inadequacy issues...

Just put a little expository post in the gameplay thread, mostly just to get my dot and have this campaign on my Campaigns tab.

Question: did this seal we're supposed to put our hands on disappear along with the letter?

Edit-Opps did not refresh.

Anyways got my island home stats up add fluff later. I know it will have no in game use but I am a bit bored. ;)