The_Ninja_DM's Road to Kasai

Game Master Spiral_Ninja

Been going to Veterans Evaluations Services physicals and x-rays. I think they send you as far from your house as they can. Anyway, I should be back to regular posting now.

Happy Mother's Day, GM Spiral...hope it was a good one.

I'll be out of town for the US holiday weekend; may have a chance to check in, but posting will be curtailed.

I'll be at a con this weekend, and the weekend starts today. Should be able to post a bit, depending on what else is going on.

Have fun at the Con, and hopefully mother nature is cooperative.

Going camping, back 8 Aug. Bot me as necessary.

Alfric--you wouldn't happen to be going camping in western Pennsylvania with several thousand of your closest friends, would you?

-Posted with Wayfinder

Back!
Nope, just off Mt. Hood in Oregon. It was delightful relief from the hot and muggy weather here. We gained two levels in marathon Pathfinder play!

And I'm back, too. It's been a bit hectic here.

I'll post on all my games after 6PM today, when I get back from work.

I've got my ACG PDF,
so if guys are looking for something ask and I'll see if it's there.

Hey GM; I don't remember asking, but have we actually undergone the apotheosis to reach our first Mythic tier, or is that still in our future?

You all have your first tier. Second should be in Brinewall.

What WAS the event that triggered our apotheosis?

Nevermind, I read back through. It was the death of the Samurai leader in the Undead Cave.

Buying the magnifying glass before a true mystery. How fortunate.

How Sherlock Holmes. By the way, the British series Sherlock is amazingly good. Better than Elementary.

I find Elementary a good show to watch.
The mysteries are a good puzzle to solve.

I was suspicious during this scene.

"At this time of night? Did one of you you take it and we need to run?" Sandru says' half jokingly.

It's about 6PM, you're here for the night.

@Braydon: You and your new friend also note the commotion, and he comments "Hm. I wonder what they're doing. I guess I'd best find a spot to put my stuff. I'll go pick a wagon."

He quickly ducks under your wagon, heading toward Koya's wagon.

If I wasn't there, though, obviously I couldn't be.

Should we consider an Co-GM Option?
To off load some of the work on the GM.

It's an option, Mai.

Does anyone here have the side quest module I'm using?

If so, let me know and we'll go from there.

Note for those who haven't seen my notes in my other games: I'm working retail over the holiday season (yes, I've gone mad...) and have worked straight since Wed., as well as being on from 10AM to 6:30PM (US EST) today.

I will check back tonight after 9PM to work out our options.

I might have the side module, but need it's name.

Legendary Game's Road to Destiny.

I can deal with a hiatus over the holiday season, as I have just over three weeks to deal with a major transition at work. I'll spare you the details; it's going to make my job excessively interesting from here on, though. And I might end up having to be a supervisor again.

And a quick note for those who aren't in my other games...

If you do not have a CO detector in your home, drop everything and go by one NOW! I'll wait...OK, back?

Sunday (fortunately, as it turned out) two of or RotRL players called off, so we were in our 2nd floor computer room, playing a back-up game. I was getting over a bout of that nasty flu going around, and was still a bit stuffed. My daughter kept saying she smelled something odd, but I couldn't smell anything til much later. When I did finally start smelling it around 3, I checked the basement to see if the furnace was off...it wasn't, so I didn't think much of it. Around 5, though the CO monitor went off - at the get out or die level. We popped all the windows and doors, grabbed the cat and her carrier and did so. The monitor showed over 80ppm. Hubby cut the furnace off and called the installers. After first trying to blame the hot water heater, they checked the furnace and the flue was completely blocked with soot. We spend Sunday night without heat (after the fumes cleared out of the house) then Monday was spent calling the installer regularly until their BEST tech showed up with a crew at 3PM and installed an 'expeller' to vent the flue outside, since the trouble seemed to be always based around our 100 year old chimney.

We're alive, we have heat, we have no further CO build-up, and -hopefully- I'm back to regular posting.

YAY!

I hope... ;)

OK, so, I'll leave this up to all of you. I want to keep this going, though my track record of late may make you (with reason) suspicious of that statement.

Do you want to keep going? If so, who's still here?

Still here! Still blathering to lord Sandru and oblivious to the action in the background so far.

Still here

Still Here, waiting for the drama of the thief to unfold.

Yo.

Still here.

Ok, first comment on Unchained:

All Unchained classes are on the table. If you want to, you may switch your current class to the Unchained version.

One major note: the Unchained Monk gets it's good Will Save back. Yes, that means UnC Monk has ALL good saves. I have no issues with that Monk/UnC Monk are both MAD enough that there shouldn't be any problems.

Any further effects will be posted later tonight, though I will most likely not use the new action system.

I'm probably going with background skills and some minor consolidation of other skills (Athletics, Influence).

Also, while I'm not impressed with Variant Multiclassing, you may use it if you wish.

Just a clarification on the UnC Monk comment; Unchained gave the UnC Monk full BaB and d10 hit dice, then dropped the Will Save to poor. I'm houseruling it back.

If anyone who doesn't have the book has questions, ask and I'll PM you with the answers.

I'm curious on the VMC with every class,
and the new skill systems.

The new skill systems are actually rather easy to explain here, though I'll make each system a separate post; then a final post giving my opinion of them.

First: the Background Skills Variant:
This variant separates the skills into two groups; Adventuring Skills and Background Skills. Adventuring Skills are those useful while actively adventuring, those related to training and practice, each having a clear and specific application to actual adventuring, those used in the majority of skill checks. Background Skills are those skills less directly useful in an adventure. Background Skills include two new skills (which I will be using regardless); Artistry and Lore.

Artistry is used to develop a creative work that isn’t necessarily an object or a discrete performance. For example: Artistry: poetry or Artistry: songwriting replaces the Craft version of those skills.

Lore is a extremely specific subset of Knowledge; for example Lore: elven history as opposed to Knowledge: history, and the character would not need to take Knowledge: history to take Lore: (specific) history or Lore: artistic masterpieces without needing ranks in Appraise, Artistry, or Craft.

While you can spend your regular skill ranks on ANY skill, you get 2 additional ranks you may ONLY spend on Background Skills.

The Consolidated Skills Variant:
This variant uses a smaller list, making characters more broadly talented by grouping together related, commonly chosen skills, reducing the number of skills from 35 to 12, and making each skill rank matter more. In many cases, the new skills have been renamed to highlight the nature of the consolidated skills. Even after reducing the number of skill ranks granted, characters will be somewhat more skilled. Character classes that are highly skilled, such as the bard or rogue, get the biggest boost.

Needless to say, this has the biggest effect on the game system, affecting traits, feats, class skills, and race traits.

The Consolidated Skills are
Acrobatics (untrained; Dex*; includes Acrobatics (except jumping), Escape Artist, Fly, Ride)
Athletics (untrained; Str*; Acrobatics (jumping), Climb, Swim)
Finesse (trained; Dex*; Disable Device, Sleight of Hand)
Influence (untrained; Cha; Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate)
Nature (trained; Int; Handle Animal, Knowledge[s]: dungeoneering, geography, & nature)
Perception (untrained; Wis; Perception, Sense Motive)
Performance (untrained; Cha; Disguise, Perform)
Religion (trained; Int; Knowledge[s]: planes & religion)
Society (trained; Int; Knowledge[s]: history, local, & nobility, Linguistics)
Spellcraft (trained; Int; Knowledge: arcana, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device)
Stealth (untrained; Dex*; Stealth)
Survival (untrained; Wis; Heal, Survival)
[*Armor check penalty applies]

Consolidated skills function the same way as the skills they replace, and provide the same +3 bonus. However, the class skill lists change, with the following entries replacing the normal class skills lists. The number in parentheses indicates the number of skill ranks a character of this class gains at each level. Always add 1/2 the character’s Intelligence modifier to this number, even if the modifier is negative. A character always gains a minimum of 1 skill rank per level.

This system cannot be used with Background Skills.

The Grouped Skills Variant:
Using this system, characters gain bonuses for large categories of skills and higher bonuses for specific skills. Instead of replacing or modifying the skill list, this system divides similar skills into groups. Instead of choosing skills and expending skill ranks to gain one skill at a time, characters gain training in a small number of skill groups, and gain specialties that give bonuses to particular skills each level. The groups represent broad talents, and the skill specialties draw from the standard skill list.

With this system, players don’t expend skill ranks. Instead, a character adds ½ their current level when attempting skill checks for chosen grouped skills, thereby making that character at least somewhat competent in skills that might otherwise be neglected. This system makes characters more broadly skilled, but gives them fewer skills they truly excel at.

Grouped skills function like this:
At 1st level, characters gain training in a number of skill groups determined by their class’s number of skill ranks per level. (There's a table) A character can gain training in any skill group, regardless of class skills.

At 1st level, each character gains one skill specialty, plus a number of bonus skill specialties equal to 1/2 their Intelligence modifier. At 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter, each character gains a specialty in one additional skill. If at any point their Intelligence modifier increases or decreases, their number of bonus skill specialties changes accordingly. Each skill specialty applies to a single, specific skill, and a character is allowed to take a specialty in a skill that isn’t in one of their skill groups. However, their bonus with that skill isn’t as high as it would be if they were also trained in the corresponding skill group.

When determining whether a character can use a trained-only skill, the character must have either a specialty in that skill or training in the skill’s group.

A character can also use Background Skills with this variant; Instead of gaining background skill ranks at every level, a character gains one additional skill specialty at 1st level that can be used only to select a background skill. In that case, the Artistry and Lore skills fall under the Scholarly skill group and the character can take specialties in background skills with their normal specialties, as well. A character can take a specialty in Lore any number of times, choosing a different type of Lore each time. To attempt a check with a Lore skill, a character must have a specialty in it. Having training in the Scholarly skill group doesn’t allow a character to use all the potential Lore skills untrained, but it does enable a character with one or more Lore skills to add their full level as a bonus on those checks, rather than just the normal 1/2 level. If the skill the character is proficient in or specializing in is a class skill, the do still get the +3 for that.

This variant can also be used with consolidated Skills, in which case the groups are as follows:

When using Consolidated Skills with Grouped Skills, reduce both the number of skill groups and the number of skill specialties characters gain by 1/2 (rounded down, to a minimum of 1) using 1/2 the class’s skill ranks per level from the core rules to determine that class’s number of skill groups and specialties, not 1/2 the adjusted values presented in the Consolidated Skills Variant Class Skills section.

I like Background Skills, and will be using them going forward as a houserule.

I do not like the Consolidated Skills Variant, if only for all the extra work needed to update.

I do like a few of the Consolidated Skills, and am considering using them. The ones I'd definitely use are Athletics and Influence. If I was going to used Consolidated Skills, I'd add a 13th; Occupation, containing Artistry, Craft, & Profession and possibly move Perform to it as well.

I'm also considering renaming Sense Motive as Insight and expanding it to make it the social and deductive version of Perception and renaming Sleight of Hand as Finesse.

I like the idea behind Grouped Skills, and the broader base it gives characters without eliminating personal choice in what skills you take. In fact, given that all skills progress automatically, I think it might even allow for more varied skill progression, as it eliminates the need to maintain specific skills, such as perception.

This is a FWIW; What I'm considering as houserules based on Unchained:

Yes, I changed the groups a bit to fit my ideas of linked skills a little better.

Quick notes on Variant Multiclassing:

With this system, each character can choose a secondary class at 1st level and trains in it throughout their career, without giving up levels in their primary class. Once selected, this choice is permanent (though if using the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign, the secondary class can be retrained by paying half the cost of retraining all her class levels). A character who selects this option doesn’t gain feats at 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels, but instead gains class features from the chosen secondary class. It is probably a good idea to use either this variant system or normal multiclassing, but it’s possible for the two systems to be used together. In a game using both systems, a character can’t take levels in their chosen secondary class.

The character has no choice in which feature to take at each level, and must also abide by any restrictions from that secondary class; i.e. Monk & Druid armor/weapon restrictions, paladin's code, and class alignments.

Spellcasting is never a feature gained in this manner.

Also, there are no VMC options for the Hybrid classes.

Please ask me about a specific class option rather than all of them.

It seems to me that the variant multiclassing system won't play well with the Mythic rules unless you're a fighter or other character class that gets bonus feats--IIRC, having a normal feat is a prerequisite for getting its mythic version.

Yea, it has it's issues. If you're using anything, Mythic, Archetype, or Prestige class, that requires specific feats, you're not going to want to use it without really limiting yourself and your feat choices.

Also, as I'm not sure I made clear, you must choose your VMC at 1st level, can never change it, and must make all the swaps. It's horribly inflexible.

VMC is -possibly- best for classes (like the Cleric?) that have very few special class features.

I did wonder if a variation on VMC could be used for prestige classes, allowing a character to continue in their main class, but the 10 level ones would be hard to modify.

Frankly, this is a better idea, I suspect.

Probably the most effective use I could see for it would be fighter multiclassing rogue, slayer, or maybe investigator--you'd be starved for skill ranks, but that'd be a decent way to get a fighter with things like sneak attack, evasion, uncanny dodge...or do you only get the class features from odd-numbered levels?

You get specific features from the VMC class that must be taken in a specific order.

Hm.

Examples:

Investigator & Slayer do not have VMC options. They'd have to be the main class.

Note: the feats are the only thing you lose from the main class.

The classes that have VMC options are:

Core: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard.

Base: Alchemist, Cavalier, Gunslinger, Inquisitor, Magus, Oracle, Summoner, Witch.

Oracle has issues, as they get the curse, but fewer opportunities to reduce it.

Off to Paizocon! Back Mon-Tue. Bot me as needed.

Roll call folks, to see if anyone wants to continue and what the options are.

I've been having issues running any games except my RL Runelords, and I'm not sure why. I still enjoy gaming, I check every day...but I just, somehow, can't post.

IF everyone who's still here wants to continue, I'll try...but I've said that before and failed.

One other option might be to appeal for a new GM.

Your call folks.

The point of all this, obviously, is to have fun. If you're not having fun running this game, I'm cool with stopping. (Also, I have my doubts we could find a GM who'd be comfortable with a campaign at this power level.)

Ikshvaku pretty much said what i wanted to say

I think we say time to call it.

Thanks for running, though...I know from personal experience that it's not that easy, and I appreciate you taking the time that you did.

Thanks for playing such interesting characters.

Still here!
I'd like to continue, but I understand about GM burnout. It's happened to me before.
No one wants to continue? Even with another GM?

The_Ninja_Dm's Road to Kasai: A Jade Regent pbp: adventure, romance, and (maybe) comedy and music

This is an invtitational Jade Regent Game. Do not post unless I've sent you a PM.

Once the first group I've chosen respond, I'll consider other PCs.

The game will use both gestalt and Mythic rules as per the following notes.

Character generation:

No evil PCs!

Races: All Pathfinder Core, Featured and Uncommon races, all Dreamscarred Press races, and the 'example' races in the ARG. Other races by DM approval only.

No homebrew races.

Special: I will permit PCs to modify a race based on the Race Point cost in the Advanced Race Guide under the following rules: the base cost for a race is 15 RPs. If your race 'costs' less than that, you may use the difference between that cost and 15 RPs to 'purchase' racial abilities as per their cost in the ARG. If the race 'costs' more than 15 points, you must pay the difference from the point buy points allotted. These points may also be used to 'purchase' the variant racial abilities, including those Aasimar and Tiefling abilities from the Blood of... series, at an RP cost of the ability they would normally be replacing.

Stats: 25 pt buy

NOTE: No character may 'cost' more than a total of 40 points.

Classes: All Pathfinder classes, all Dreamscarred Press Psionics Unleashed & Psionics Expanded classes. All other 3pp by DM approval, must provide a copy or link to one for the GM. No homebrews.

Traits: 3; one must be a Campaign Trait. Traits may also be purchased with RP or Stat points at 2 points/trait.

You may, with GM approval of the specific trait, use RotRL or Sandpoint specific traits as campaign traits. No 3rd party or homebrew traits as campaign traits.

HP: PCs get their full HD plus their con score at first level. Thereafter they will roll for HP and add their con bonus. If the roll for HP is under PFS base, they get PFS base plus con bonus.

Gestalt House Rules

Gestalt characters essentially take multiple classes at each level, choosing the best aspects of each. The process is similar to multiclassing, except that characters gain the full benefits of each class at each level. Where the chosen classes have aspects that overlap (such as Hit Dice, attack progression, saves, and class features common to more than one class), you choose the better aspect. The gestalt character retains all aspects that don’t overlap. Class features that two classes share (such as Uncanny Dodge) don’t stack; they accrue at the rate of the faster class.

To build a gestalt character, choose two (or three) classes. The classes must be ones that could multiclass under the multiclass rules.

a: One class of the gestalt must be a Pathfinder or Dreamscarred Press class.
b: Once chosen, the gestalt combination may not be changed.
c: Players must specify one of the classes in their gestalt as their favored class. Races or Feats allowing more than one Favored Class allow the PC to make a second class in their gestalt favored as well.
d: Gestalt characters with more than one spell-casting class keep track of their spells per day separately.
e: The third class can be an NPC or prestige class. The prestige class can be used to replace the NPC class, and only the NPC class once you qualify.
f: For each save bonus, choose the better progression from the chosen classes, with the following restriction: The character must take at least one bonus from each class in the gestalt.

Other House Rules
I permit a rewrite of a character, once, at the point where the PC reaches 2nd level.

I roll initiative for everyone once and maintain that same initiative throughout the fight. After the first/surprise round a PC may reroll their initiative, but they must keep the reroll, even if it's worse.

I roll publicly to see who the opponents attack, numbering the group in alphabetical order.

I put information acquired in skill rolls in spoilers with the roll needed listed. If you have bonuses/modifiers that equal the listed roll, you get the info without rolling.

I do not use a 3 natural 20 instant death rule.

Thanks for the invite. Considering options. Will get my questions or ideas up as soon as i can. ( I'm home with my little 6 month old, so it may or may not be today... I'll try to keep a presence here until i can get my character posted, though )

Woot! I've glad to have been invited and delighted to play! I'm going to tinker with some concepts - given your generous build rules - and throw up a possible character as soon as I can. If you don't like the character - I'll be happy to trash him/her and make another one. It's pretty hard to go wrong with this many build options. :)

At first blush, I'm really tempted to try Straehan the Sorc/Monk concept.

Spiral, what are your thoughts on rage cycling?

Rage Cycling. Hm. I'd be willing to give it a try, I'm open to options. With the proviso that, if it proves to disruptive, the DM/fate/whatever can step in and remove the ability.

Still, it does sound rather ... mythic. ;)

Another quick build note: if you don't want to add to or adjust a current race, you may use those extra points for stat buy as well.

OK, help me with the math here as I don't have the ARG.

So if you have a 10 point race, say a Gnome - picking something off the top of my head :) - and you don't adjust it one bit. Are you saying the difference between 15 RP and the 10 RP spent (5 RP) would be applied to his Point Buy raising it from 25 to 30?

Alternatively, I can shuffle his racial build around to eat up that 5 RP so that he is built as a 15 RP race with 25 points for stats. Yes?

Yes, stormraven.

I suspect that the differences will balance out, especially after we add the Mythic tiers.

Note: That will be at a certain point near the end of the first module.

If you know the plot, you can guess when and how.

Also, you mention Mythic in your initial post. How are those rules playing into our character advancement? On top of gestalt? Or instead of gestalt?

On top of.

Part of the delay setting this up has been adapting the opponents to fit mythic.

I suspect that the differences will balance out, especially after we add the Mythic tiers.

Note: That will be at a certain point near the end of the first module.

If you know the plot, you can guess when and how.

Well, I guess I'm outta luck there then. :) I do homespun stuff myself and own none of the Adventure Paths. So you may assume I don't know anything about Jade Regent aside from what the Player's Guide provides.

thanks for the invite.

i'll have to give character design some thought, should hopefully post something soon.

OK, this may seem a bit out of the ordinary - and hopefully doesn't step on Spiral's toes - but maybe guys/gals we could chat about our preferred classes? I'd like to pick something complementary to the group that doesn't over-balance us one way or another (i.e. all stabby types or all spell-wonks). I know with gestalt we can cover all the bases easily but most people have preferences. I'm pretty 'class agnostic' so if you good folks are heavily into casters, I can fill the meat-shield role, etc.

Generally, I like to have some casting ability. I think it keeps the higher levels more interesting. But that isn't a hard and fast rule for me. So my two basic concepts are:

Slightly re-skinned Gnome Sorcerer (probably Fire) / Monk (Master of 4 Winds)

Slightly re-skinned Tian Samurai (Sword Saint & Ronin) / X (likely Fighter Weapon Master)

If you guys are inclined to go caster heavy, I'd probably opt for the Samurai.

I'm fine with you folks working out a complimentary group.

I was hoping to be able to cover all six Mythic paths as well, but I'm not going to require you to each pick a different one.

I have two ideas:

A summoner/ninja (or rogue) Fetchling

or

a monk (wanderer) / oracle (seer) human.

anything really is fine though.

further on the second idea:

He's blind. with the racial trait 'see in darkness' (+4 Racial points) to make up for it flavor wise. i know its a stereotype but i think it'd be fun to play.

Not all stereotypes are a bad thing. :)

Ca-CAW!

Question, Spiral, on the ARG stuff. At 15 RP we'd be in the 'Advanced' Power Level which gives us some stronger ways to spend RP points. Was that your intent or should we restrict ourselves to the 'Standard' RP abilities but we just have more RPs to spend?

Also interested, and thanks for the invite. I need to think a bit about what sort of character I'd like to play. Right now, I'm partial to a fighter/soulknife, though. (I have the DSP psionics material.) I'm not sure from your description of gestalt how the third class is applied, though.

Hey Spiral, what party size are you shooting for? You mentioned wanting to get characters in all six mythic paths. Are you going for a six-pack of character trouble?

Wow, this sounds pretty amazing. Reminds me of the Monkey King and his completely over the top companions. I'll be lurking this game. :)

skill points:

total of both classes? or just the higher of the two?

Higher of the two.

danke

and we use the skill lists from both classes?

Yup. :)

You leaning one direction or the other on your character, Corvus?

I have a ton of ideas, but am currently mostly entertaining a few front- runners.

1) Biter - Goblin bad-ass barbarian and scout rogue. Think Conan at 3 feet tall.

2) A Tiefling in one of the three following combos: katana-wielding Kensai magus/Lore Warden, katana-wielding Kensai magus/Scout rogue, or Skin-changing Scout Rogue/Psychic Warrior. All of these three share the same basic backstory; just three different cool ways of bringing it to life depending on what the others in the group want to play.

Based on the talk of front-liners from John and Eben, I'm seriously thinking the gnome sorc/monk is the way to go. He won't be a wall-flower though. He is geared to mix it up with the baddies and drop spells in the middle of a firefight.

Sorry for not responding for a bit. Finally caught the cold the rest of the family has been tossing around all week.

I'll post an example build and answer questions later tonight.

I also have a cool archer/battlefield controller as well as a whip-based group buff-type character that could be fun. :)

THERE ARE JUST SO MANY GOOD OPTIONS!

Fleshing out my character concept a bit, I'm thinking of going with the Unbreakable fighter archetype (fitting with the mental discipline required to be a soulknife), if that's OK, and making him/her a Vudrani immigrant.

Sounds good, John.

OK, here's the promised guide, using 2 NPCs you may meet and 2 fictional concepts.

Gestalt build examples
Ameiko Kaijitsu has three classes; Aristocrat, Bard, Rogue (rake)
Shalelu Andosana has two classes; Fighter and Ranger
Old-School Eddie also has three classes; Fighter, Wizard, and Rogue (duplicating the 2nd ed fighter/magic-user/thief class.)
Mandy Multi-mage is a Cleric, Psion, Wizard (a concept I've always wanted to run somewhere, sometime)

Hit Dice Choose the larger Hit Die.
Ameiko's classes have the same hit dice so her gestalt HD is a d8.
Shalelu's classes have the same hit dice. Shaleu's gestalt hd is D10
Eddie's classes hit dice are: Fighter d10, Wizard d6, Rogue d8. Eddie's gestalt hd is d10.
Mandy's classes hit dice are: Cleric d8, Wizard d6, Psion d6. Mandy's gestalt hd is d8.

Base Attack Bonus Choose the best progression from the gestalt classes.
Ameiko's classes have the same BaB rate. Her BaB is slow.
Shalelu's classes have the same BaB. Shalelu uses the fast BaB progression.
Eddie's classes vary: Fighter fast, Wizard slow, Rogue slow. Eddie uses the Fighter's fast BaB.
Mandy's classes all share the slow BaB. Her gestalt BaB is slow.

Base Saving Throw Bonuses For each base save bonus, choose the better progression from each of the gestalt classes, taking at least one bonus from each class in the gestalt.

Ameiko: An Aristocrat's best save is Will; a Bard's best saves are Ref & Will; a Rogue's best save is Ref. This means that Ameiko will have to use the Aristocrat's Will save, the Rogue's Reflex save, and the Bard's poor Fort save. (One save from each class.)

Shalelu: A Fighter's best save is Fort; a Ranger's best saves are Fort and Reflex. Shalelu will use the Fighter's Fort save and the Ranger's Reflex save and will have a poor Will save.

Eddie: A Fighter's best save is Fort, a Wizard's best save is Will, and a Rogue's best save is Reflex. Eddie has three good saves.

Mandy: A Cleric has two good saves, Fort and Will, a Fighter's best save is Fort, and a Psion's best save is Will. Mandy has the Fighter's Fort save, The Cleric's Will save and the Psion's poor Reflex save.

Class Skills Take the number of skill points gained per level from whichever class grants more skill points, and consider any skill on either class list as a class skill for the gestalt character.

Ameiko: Aristocrat (4 skill ranks), Bard (6 skill ranks), Rogue (8 skill ranks). Ameiko gains 8 skill ranks per level.
Shalelu: Fighter (2 skill ranks), Ranger (6 skill ranks). Shalelu gains 6 skill ranks per level.
Eddie: Fighter (2 skill ranks), Wizard (2 skill ranks), Rogue (8 skill ranks). Eddie gets 8 skill ranks per level.
Mandy: Cleric (2 skill ranks), Wizard (2 skill ranks), and Psion (2 skill ranks). Mandy gets 2 skill ranks per level.

Class Features A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. Class- and ability-based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a Druid’s prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other classes are involved.

At first level:
Ameiko gets Sneak attack +1d6 and Bravado’s Blade (Ex) [replacing trapfinding due to her archetype] from the Rogue, Bardic knowledge, bardic performance, cantrips, countersong, distraction, fascinate, and inspire courage +1 from the Bard, and no specials from the Aristocrat.

Shalelu gets a bonus feat from the Fighter and 1st favored enemy, track, and wild empathy from the Ranger.

Eddie gets a bonus feat from the Fighter, Arcane bond, arcane school, cantrips, and Scribe Scroll from the Wizard, and Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding

Mandy gets the Cleric's Aura, channel energy 1d6, domains, orisons, spontaneous casting, the Wizard's Arcane bond, arcane school, cantrips, and Scribe Scroll, and the Psion's bonus feat, detect psionics, a discipline, and discipline powers. However Mandy can still only cast one spell or manifest one power per round.

Prestige classes If you have a three PC class gestalt, you canot take a prestige class later. If you have a two-class gestalt, you can add a prestige class you qualify for. If you have a three-class gestalt with at least one part being an NPC class, you can replace that NPC class only with a prestige class.

Neither Eddie or Mandy can take a prestige class. They have 3 PC classes and cannot replace any of them.

Ameiko can, at a later time, stop taking levels in Aristocrat (and ONLY in Aristocrat) and start taking a prestige class.

Shalelu can add a prestige class once she qualifies.

Oh, and a delayed reply to the Advanced level abilities question. You can add one with my approval. There are a few I just don't want to see...there's makes other characters fall for you and rush across the room to kiss you for example. [For personal reasons I don't want to discuss, except that I got very lucky, I can guarantee that once the effect wore off, the victim would be trying to kill the perpetrator.]

# of players. Ideally I'd like 6, however, I only sent 5 invites. I can add the missing paths to some of the permanent NPCs you'll be collecting, so it's not that big an issue.

I came up with a few other elements for the character concept. I'm thinking to go with the Guardian mythic path, and take either vulnerability to silver (antithetical to the ordered ascetic mind) or required food/drink as a mythic weakness. I'm also toying with adding Expert as a third class; I don't anticipate taking any prestige classes, but it'd be nice to have the option if DSP comes out with something reasonable for soulknives, and another couple of skill points and class skills is no bad thing. One other thing--I'm still thinking about whether this would fit with the character concept, but would you allow the Fast Advanced trait for a human?

I'm a bit too tired to search properly, John. What does the Fast Advanced trait do?

Increases base movement by 10'.

As far as Advanced feats go... I wasn't looking to game the system or had some insidious combo platter of powers in mind. I was thinking about the 'basics' of the ARG system. For instance, is the 'Advanced' Ability Score qualifier in play or strictly off limits?

The 'Standard' (0 RP) is "+2 to one physical ability, +2 to one mental ability, and -2 to one other ability."

The 'Advanced' (4 RP) is "Pick either mental or physical ability scores. Members of this race gain a +2 bonus to all of those scores, a +4 bonus to one score of the other type, and a –2 penalty to one other ability score of the other type."

That will substantially boost anyone's stats. And then, depending on how you view things, someone could go hog wild and toss on 'Advanced CON' (4 RP) or the like for an additional +2 to that stat.

It just seems like it might be reasonable to set some limits on the base Ability Score Modifier Quality to prevent the scores from getting too lopsided.

So, there's no reason NOT to take a third class if you don't plan on taking a prestige class, huh? Or, if you do want to take a prestige class, there's no reason not to take an NPC class as your third.

Just want to fully understand before i go too far down a path. :)

@stormraven: I'm going to say no on the ability score adds. There will be sufficient opportunities to improve your stats. ;)

@Eben: Pretty much.

@John: Fast Advanced trait is OK.

So, there's no reason NOT to take a third class if you don't plan on taking a prestige class, huh? Or, if you do want to take a prestige class, there's no reason not to take an NPC class as your third.

Just want to fully understand before i go too far down a path. :)

Unless Spiral is changing the standard you can only improve two classes at each level up. With a 3rd class, you are splitting your levels. Thus:

Gestalt Level 6 = 12 total class levels

Fighter 6 / Bard 6

Fighter 5 / Bard 3 / Aristocrat 4

@stormraven: I'm going to say no on the ability score adds. There will be sufficient opportunities to improve your stats. ;)

That's fine with me. I'm not a rampant optimizer, I just like to ensure a level playing field. :)

So then the Ability Score 'base' for any created ARG race is assumed to be 'Standard' (0 RP) or 'Human Heritage' (0 RP) or possibly 'Flexible' (2 RP) for folks taking something like an Aasimar.

Eben TheQuiet wrote:

So, there's no reason NOT to take a third class if you don't plan on taking a prestige class, huh? Or, if you do want to take a prestige class, there's no reason not to take an NPC class as your third.

Just want to fully understand before i go too far down a path. :)

Unless Spiral is changing the standard you can only improve two classes at each level up. With a 3rd class, you are splitting your levels. Thus:

Gestalt Level 6 = 12 total class levels

Fighter 6 / Bard 6

Fighter 5 / Bard 3 / Aristocrat 4

This is not what Spiral Ninja's examples (or her answer to me) indicate. Her example of Mandy the Multi-mage shows her gaining the class features of all three classes (cleric, wizard, and psion). Such a character is limited in that he/she cannot take any prestige classes (ever). So any character not really interested in taking prestige classes can take 3 classes at once, according to the example and Spiral's follow-up answer to my question.

Spiral, obviously let me know if I'm wrong on this.

I do see the gestalts advancing in all classes at the same time.

I also have a balancing mechanisim I've been considering.

It works like this:

A two class gestalt advances at the medium xp rate

A three class gestalt advances at the slow xp rate.

So, if you want to take a PrC, you're better off taking an NPC class as a third class. If not, then a two-class gestalt is better.

That's an interesting variation.

OK, so here is my Half-Elemental Gnome race/stats for consideration. He'll be using the same basic Straehan story with which you're familiar. It'll be visible for this avatar but ignore the crunch. I'll update it all after you've given a 'yay' or 'nay' on the race and build.

Half-Elemental Gnome
Goes with his storyline - Father of unknown origin but hinted at by Strae's Sorcerous Bloodline (Elemental Fire).

Type: Humanoid (Gnome) 0 RP
Size: Small 0 RP
Speed: Normal 0 RP
Ability Score: Standard (-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha) 0 RP
Languages: Standard 0 RP

Feat and Skill Racial Traits

• Skill bonus (Perception) 2 RP
  
• Skill bonus (choose one Craft or Profession) 2 RP

Magical Racial Traits

• Arcane Focus 1 RP
  
• Pyromaniac 3 RP

• Nimble Attacks: Weapon Finesse 2 RP << Advanced (1 allowed)

• Low-light vision 1 RP

Total: 11 RP (of 15 allowed)
Adding 4 extra RP to the 25 point build...

29 Point Build

STR 12 (-2 racial)
DEX 16 (+2 racial)
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 18 (+2 racial)

I'll be going with two class gestalt - Sorcerer (Fire) / Monk (Master of 4 Winds)

@Straehan: looks good to me.

Cool. I might raise his WIS a little bit at the cost of... I'm not sure what yet. :) But otherwise, I'll build him out under this avatar. He'll be all purtied up over the weekend.

Okay, I get it now. I'll be sticking with 2 classes. Really don't want to live on a slower xp path. :)

The character I'm really liking at this point, both from a background and mechancial standpoint is a tiefling scout (Rogue and Egoist Psion).

Here's my attribute point buy and racial point buy.

IF these are good, I'll go ahead and build him out.

NOTE: Anyone know a quick translation of "little one" in chinese or japanese (that does't rely on the chinese/japanese characters)? I'm looking for ideas for this guy's name. :D

@Eben: the character looks good.

As for names, here are a few translations, courtesy of Google translate

Chinese: Xiǎo yī

Japanese: Chīsana ichi

Vietnamese: chỉ một cái

Korean: eolin-i

And do we know or care whether Ameiko's family's rots are Japanese or Chinese equivalent?

IIRC, her family is from Minkai, the Japanese-equivalent part of Tian Xia.

Yes. Her family's roots are in Minkai. In fact, Kasai is it's capitol.

Road trip!

And, yes, Minkai is Japanese influenced.

Also, Tien and Minkaian are separate languages, Tien being the Tian Xia equivalent of common.

I think i'll be sticking with the monk/oracle gestalt then, since we have a rogue.

I'll post a stat block as soon as i can just to make sure i gots it right.

If you'd prefer the other character, let me know. I can switch to another concept easily enough, Corvus.

Re traits, would you allow the Centered trait from Faiths of Balance?

ETA: Here's a rough of the character:

Ikshvaku “Vak” Charayana
Fighter (Unbreakable)/Soulknife
LN Vudrani Human Male
Standard human (9 RP) +1 RP for +10’ movement speed
30 point build
S 14
D 18
C 16
I 13
W 12
C 10

Skills: Acrobatics (+8), Autohypnosis (+5), Climb (+6), Perception (+6), Knowledge (Psionics) (+5), Swim (+6), Profession (Merchant)(?) (+5)

Feats: Weapon Focus (mind blade) (L1), Dodge (Human bonus), Endurance (L1 Unbreakable bonus), Diehard (L1 Unbreakable Bonus), Two-Weapon Fighting (L1 Soulknife bonus), Wild Talent (L1 Soulknife bonus)

Traits: Friend of the Family, Armor Expert, Centered

Vak is the son of a pair of Vudrani merchants based out of Magnimar; they’re the far north end of a trading route that extends all the way back to Vudra, and they frequently travel to Sandpoint and other towns in Varisia. For reasons too complicated to go into, they’ve long been friends of Niska’s, which is how Vak comes to be in a position to take the caravan north.
He is a tall, well-built young man with the beginnings of a dark beard; he is quite an ascetic, though, devoting much of his time to the martial and mental disciplines of his almost-forgotten homeland.