The Forgotten God (Table 3) (Inactive)

Game Master Rednal

Hmm, tough choices.

Initially, I just picked a cloak of Charisma because more CHA is something i needed. However, that is not a unique choice by any means, more borne out of mechanical necessity.

He fights with his hands, for now I suppose. I'm not sure a weapon would be appropriate, except maybe handwraps that function as you described above.

On the issue of scaling, I am not sure if he will fight with his hands forever. On top of that, "handwraps" are hardly an iconic item that lends itself to godly imagery. A staff would be good, provided he could channel his terrors through it, and maybe his bleeds (a staff with a mass of bloody horns or thorns at one end).

Epicness depends entirely on the fluff. XD For example, I wrote this up for a legendary book at Table 5:

"Astoroth's notebook is said to contain the collected knowledge of every book ever written - up to and including the Book of the Damned. However, while he's been known to allow mortal followers to borrow individual pages of the tome to aid their studies, such pages can only be deciphered by those they were given to, and no one has ever succeeded in decoding beyond the first chapter without Astoroth's help. Every ten years, the God of Information-Gathering held a festival for the greatest mortal minds in the material plane, and those who came closest to cracking his codes - nobody ever succeeded - were blessed with great knowledge and power. He's never spoken of the true depths of the book's contents, and wiser deities have stopped asking."

Functionally, it replaces the headband slot (he can't equip headbands, but he can craft headband powers into the book, per the rules on adding additional abilities), so it gets base abilities on top of both Legacy powers and Legendary Item powers, all of which are appropriately scaled. It's the iconic item for your deity, and gosh darnit, it will be something you like. XD

If it were handwraps, we could do something like weaving it from the nightmares of gods or something. Still, if it's a staff you want, then a staff we shall make! ...What kind of staves does Psionics normally have, anyway? o.O We could do a Psionic version of the Staff of Sacred Light, I suppose, if there's not much on the base level. I must confess that I'm not very familiar with psionic items.

Psicrowns are actually the Staff-equivalent item in psionics.

Nice writeup, I guess I was thinking more constrained inside the box than outside.

Handwraps, psicrowns/staves, psychoactive skins, all could be cool legendary-style items.

There are also psicrystal staves that might work, but those typically involve a psicrystal, which i don't have and would have to take a feat to get. I only mention it because if Death is on my side or has a vested interest in my survival, maybe she would put a different sort of stone in there to communicate or something. just a random idea.

Has that Overmind path come out yet? I can never seem to find real news about it.

The complete Overmind path is available as part of the Psionics section of the Hero's Handbook, which is now out in full. ^^ In fairness, that's fairly recent, and I don't think they've released the book to the public yet - they're taking pre-orders right now.

The important bit is finding the item you want to have. Once we have a shape and an idea for how it fits in to your character's build, we can start matching appropriate powers.

well, when i go to imagine Harath at a more godly level of power, I figure him as being more of a caster and less someone who fights with their hands. So i figure a Psicrown or Staff might be more suitable. Probably Psicrown since it works with the psionic rules better and would leave his hands free to fight as needed.

Psicrown we can do. As for its abilities, hmm...

Lesser Version - Character Levels 1-9
3-to-1 recharge efficiency
10 PP for every three Manifester Levels

Greater Version - Character Levels 10-14
2-to-1 recharge efficiency
10 PP for every two Manifester Levels

True Version - Character Levels 15+
1-to-1 recharge efficiency
10 PP for every one Manifester Level

I'm fairly sure that's the standard power rate for the items. The available powers will need to be sharply limited, of course... they normally start at Level 9, and I think it would be appropriate to start with one power, then gain one additional power at Level 5 and every five levels thereafter. Sound good to you?

I'll take your word on the standard power rate, I haven't looked it up myself and I am sure whatever I end up with will be better than a strictly by-the-book item anyway.

As for powers, I was figuring maybe something along the lines of (give or take) some of the ones off a list like this:

Deadly Fear

Moment of Terror

maybe power leech but the crown is filled instead of the caster?

definitely form of doom

and it would have to have a power on a class list of mine that i am capable of manifesting now, just so i can charge it (according to the rules).

and that was just some fear-based ideas or transformative ideas relating to his theme. Most godly types at some point gain resistance to many elements, PR/SR, etc. so those powers would be helpful later. Also later on maybe some way to teleport or overland flight before that. Not needed this early in the game though, being a regular "walker" is good for him at this stage.

I just looked at the ones on d20pfsrd and counted. XD That seems to be the overall scale they were going for.

I wouldn't go for Power Leech (won't be enough Psionic enemies to make that truly worthwhile), and otherwise, the initial power should be no more than second-level (I'm pretty serious about not getting early access to high-level powers with these items, and at the moment, that's the highest you qualify for).

Hmmm, suppose I will go with whatever power you pick then. I can't think of any powers I'd find particularly useful, other than the ones I always come back to (the Corrosive Aura mostly).

Really? No general utility powers or anything you'd like to have?

Not a whole lot of those on the Dread or Psion lists at level 2. I am open to suggestions.

Maybe:
Cloud Mind
Crystal Light (if it didnt count as the only power, as it's a Talent)

Looking at the Psion power list, there are a lot of in-combat powers, and not too many utility powers. Which is shocking, as I think back to the low-level Psions I have had any my difficulty in keeping them alive long enough to level up.

How about the Psychic Warrior list? I'm willing to ignore that "you must know a power it has to recharge the item" line in light of the fact that it's mythically bonded to you.

Body Adjustment or Wall Walker would be useful (the former more than the latter)

*Flips through the list* Hmm... Body Adjustment's also on the Psion list as a Level 3 ability. If it's on a list for a class you have, that always takes precedence. I suppose we could simply put it onto the item anyway, but note that it's unavailable until you can manifest third-level powers.

Hmm. maybe i should go with some non-staff item. Staff/psicrown is cool and all, but unless there are some abilities other than powers, I don't see myself using the item at all.

maybe i should just try for one later, with another use of Legendary item, make some kind of item set. Staves/psicrowns probably weren't meant for such low level play.

Ordinarily, you can only have one Legendary Item, since the Mythic Bond is kind of a one-time-only thing. The only exception to that is the Resonant Regalia legendary item ability (NOT a path ability), which lets you split your power between multiple items.

It does help to be extremely clear on what you're doing with it, though. For some examples...

Iris, my own character, has a staff that gains new spells over time. Its main use is being her melee weapon, but it can be swung one-handed (for the Magus' spell combat style), two-handed (for pure damage against weaker foes), or as a double weapon (for a higher number of attacks and, later, accuracy/damage/AC bonuses). Once she's grown, it can banish hostile outsiders (Dismissal), blast the area around her (Holy Smite), or just illuminate the surrounding area in keeping with her theme of 'Goddess of the Dawn'. She's pretty much built around using it.

Astoroth, on the other hand, is using his Legendary Item as a replacement for a magic item slot. Given that most people would be wearing headbands and such anyway, this ensures it's always providing a valuable boost, and that's compounded by its thematic abilities, which mostly revolve around helping him use his intelligence to overcome challenges.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if you want a Legendary Item, it shouldn't just be a check-mark on the list of things to get. It should match the kind of playstyle you want, be helpful enough to be worth using throughout the campaign, and generally be something you really enjoy having.

All things considered, I think you might do better if we created something in Astoroth's style. Have it as a replacement for a magic item slot, then let you craft in whatever powers you actually want to have.

Hmmm. Well, I hadn't pictured Harath as a crafter. I had sorta pictured him having a few legendary items, but I guess that probably isnt the case.

I was thinking along the lines of a profoundly sneaky cloak to go with his theme of sneaking/skulking about, an imperious staff/rod/scepter to give him the look and grandiose nature of a real god, a crown or headband to go with that as well. A mask would suit his purposes as well. An amulet for messing with minds somehow, or trapping people in dreams. Just kinda spitballing ideas out there that I had.

The staff/psicrown idea was mostly an idea because i figure every high-level psion should have one. i suppose i should BE a high-level psion before I worry about that then.

As far as playstyle, I am at a bit of an impasse. Harath is played melee at the moment, but I figure he should move to range or more power-based style later, with the melee being a backup. But if i forsake melee now, I may not make it that far without undue struggle.

*Thinks*

Well, there is a fairly straightforward solution to that. This game allows Retraining, so there's no particular issue with focusing on melee for now, then taking some time later on to adjust your build. ^^

Hmm, then perhaps handwraps or an amulet would be the way to go.

Ideally, things to help me hit, like STR or an attack bonus. I kinda have to use natural attacks or unarmed attacks since that is how i conduct my terrors, and bleeds (although bleed isnt that powerful, just a cool and terrifying visual. I like to think enemies think more rashly while bleeding out.)

I was going to list the attributes Harath most needs in the end, but it ended up being all of them.

Hmm... I suppose an amulet would be most appropriate, since you could craft better passives into it. Start as either Mighty Fists or Natural Armor and upgrade it later, perhaps?

(Note that your item is one of the things that can't be easily changed - best to think of long-term value here.)

I agree. I was trying to think how handwraps would stand the test of time, but amulets seem to do so better and make more sense.

Mighty fists would be good because i feel like i miss a whole lot, whereas he relies on other-than-AC means of defense.

All right. *Taps chin* I'll see about writing up the flavor and basic outline - any thematic things you'd particularly like to include? (Or you could write it all up yourself, of course. XD Your choice.)

Well i figure it should be suitably ominous, like a blood red or deep violet gem set in something like the black horn of a fiendish minotaur or a plate of bone from a vampiric worg's skull.

The Nightmare Stone

This deep-hued, violet gem was first created by Harath when he encountered the demiplane known as the Dimension of Dreams, and the mysterious world of Leng beyond it. Set into a piece of black stone carved from the dreamscape of a sleeping god, it's said that the stone once offered the Lord of Nightmares the ability to observe - and control - the dreams of mortals. Though Harath's fall from power means it has lost much of its potency, the dormant power of the Nightmare Stone is just waiting to be awakened by its master...

Description: The Nightmare Stone is worn as an amulet and takes up that magic item slot. In addition to its powers as a Legendary Item, it acts as an Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 and can have additional amulet abilities (such as those of a Psionatrix) crafted into it (following the normal rules for addition additional magic abilities to items).

<Insert Legendary Item powers here>

GM Tip: Legendary Items can take the 'Upgradable' ability. If you don't want to spend EVERY power on making it an intelligent item, you can grab that and upgrade its Mighty Fist-ness for half the GP cost and no feat requirement.

sweeet!

I did have a question though, on the Legendary Item mythic ability.

So when you take it, the item gets a number of powers equal to your tier, and you can take it again at at least 3rd tier to give it up to 6 powers, no more than your tier.

It sounds to me like the best time to take it would be 3rd and 6th tiers, for maximum powers.

But I saw someone the other day treating it like if you take it at 1st Tier, and later gain a tier, that the item gains a tier as well and gets a new ability.

Which is correct? I figure you would have done a lot of research on this as it appears to be one of your favorite abilities.

The person you saw the other day is likely correct - if you gain a tier, the legendary item also increases in power and gains a new ability (up to its current limit of 3, 6, or 10 abilities).

Personally, I prefer taking the Legendary Item power earlier, since I like the thematic value of having the item with you from the start and watching it grow over the course of the adventure. Long-term, it doesn't matter too much - when you're Tier 4, the item will have the same number of powers regardless of what tier you initially chose it at.

I was wondering why there were no posts, then i reread things and realized that I should have been the one to post next! hah

Are these abilities permissible as a legendary item? or would you have other suggestions?

Legendary Power 2/day
Legendary Surge: Saving Throws
Senses: 30ft
Intelligent x2: INT 14; WIS 12; CHA 10

Spellcasting, (CL = Tier*2):
3/day: Invisibility
1/day: Expeditious Retreat

Let's see... neck slot gives a legendary surge for saving throws, that's normal... ability scores start at 10 when first chosen, plus six points, that's good... five points to spend on spells, expeditious retreat is one, invisibility three times has twice its level as a cost, so four...

Everything looks in order to me. ^^ We could probably change the spells to psionic powers if you wanted to keep that theme going, but as it is, this looks like a legal item build to me.

Yeah, I went with spells because they have some things, like invisibility, that psionics don't get until higher level or sometimes at all.

Figured part of it would be for him to be able to get into or out of places prospective victims might not expect, which is scary in its own right.

That does fit the theme of 'nightmares', so I can hardly complain. ^^ Juuuust note that most adventures assume a fairly straightforward progression, and Bad Things (like overlooking important key items) could happen if you go too far off the planned route through a desire to be sneaky. XD 'Tis unfortunate for rogue types in general, but there's no practical way to write an adventure that's perfectly balanced for every approach.

Worry not, I don't fancy spending tons of time invisible, sneaking into every building just because I can; nor do i think the invisibility spell is an invincibility spell. I just figure it would help me out here and there.

just wondering... if a Legendary Item can do its surge on saving throws, can i then use my surge on the same saving throw? adding 2d6 to a save, at the cost of both 1 of my MP and one of the item's LP?

Normally, no. Mythic Surge is an immediate action, as is Legendary Surge, and you only get one of those each round.

It would, however, be a legal technique if you had a way to take two immediate actions in one round - Mythic Surge and Legendary Surge are different sources, so their effects would stack if you somehow managed to use both at once.

ah, so it isnt the item's action?

Nope - Legendary Surge is specifically something used by the person who's using the item, not something any guiding intelligence controls.

(Of course, Legendary Surge uses a higher dice roll than your normal surge, so on average it's worth using instead of your Mythic Surge when possible. XD)

Yeah DR really slows me down I'm noticing

Heads up,

My posts will be sparing for the next day. I will be flying on a trip. The trip will be mostly leisure, but I will be working via phone/laptop. As such, I will still have time to post.

If you are one of those folks that has estimated the approximate times I am typically online, I will be on at different times. Five hour time zone difference will have me signing off five hours early, but also a drastically reduced work schedule will have me begin posting much earlier.

Speaking of Wild Arcana, it got errata'd into a Standard Action... and now that Mythic Psionics is a thing, it'd probably be easiest if you just switched it with one of these two abilities. XD; We'll roll with it this time, but for the future, it's a standard.

Mythic Manifestation: As a standard action, you can expend one use of mythic power to manifest any one psionic power without expending any psionic power points. This must be one of your powers known. If the power requires a saving throw, any non-mythic creatures affected by the power roll twice and take the lower result. If you must attempt a manifester level check for the power to overcome a creature’s power resistance, you can roll your manifester level check twice (adding your tier to each) and take the higher result. You can’t add a metapsionic feat to a power you manifest using this ability. The power is treated as if augmented to your manifester level, should the power allow augmenting.

Surging Psionics: As a standard action, you can expend one use of mythic power to manifest any one psionic power without spending any power points. The power must be on your class power list and one of your powers known. When manifesting a power in this way, you treat your manifester level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. The power is treated as if augmented to your manifester level, should the power allow augmenting. You can apply any metapsionic feats you know to this power, but you must still expend psionic focus as normal to power the metapsionic feats and the total effective cost of the power cannot exceed your manifester level and count against any potential augmenting.

Uuuuuuuuuuunless you're planning to train into that mythic path later, of course.

ooh, wow. a lot of changes. i think i will just swap it over, no point in using the magic version if there is a psionic one. i am on vacation right now so not doing any major overhauls, but the next weekend i will be off vacation and will have time to fix it up.

sounds odd to have more time off vacation but my vacation is spent mostly spending time with other people, who get mad when im constantly on paizo haha

You'll be leveling after this fight, too... might be easiest to just wait on things until you're back, then. XD

didnt want to edit my gameplay post since you may already be looking at it, but my reference to it being barely better than a trait comes from comparing it to the myriad of feats that give +1 damage.

here are two that are pretty widely applicable
axe to grind
Vengeful

If i have one of those and i hit twice, i do two extra damage, which is just shy of the 2.5 dmg average of the 1d4 bleed per turn. The bleed is nice because it can keep going when i miss, but they can also stop it with healing or fast healing and render it less effective than the raw, guaranteed damage.

*Flips through some things*

...Interesting. Well, there's another feat - Bloody Assault - which specifically says that it DOES do bleed damage both in addition to the normal damage and on each of their turns thereafter - and it has an additional cost to use that Bleeding Attack doesn't. Bleeding Attack does not specify that it does damage in addition to your normal damage, just that it inflicts a certain amount of bleed.

Functionally speaking, the only difference between the two feats is that Bloody Assault does damage right away and Bleeding Attack doesn't - and the former makes you pay for that benefit. As such, I don't think I have any choice except to rule that Bleeding Attack's damage is only at the start of the opponent's turn. The power has no exception to the normal way bleeding is resolved, and at least one other ability specifically does.

Uuuuuuunless you can find a specific ruling saying otherwise, of course.

Yeah, i doubt i will unveil any new information in addition to the googling i did earlier. i think it is a byproduct of the feat possibly having a different writer, or the books the two feats came from being far enough apart that the standard set was different. or just that one was meant to simulate having claws and the other was attaching bleed to a weapon that already does more damage than most unarmed attacks.

It could be any of those, really. XD; Honestly, I'm kind of expecting you to eventually train that feat out and select something else instead - small amounts of bleed are increasingly less helpful as the game goes on. Might not be a bad choice in a low-level game - maybe E6-style - but it's probably not something to keep in this one.

(Unless you just want the flavor of constantly bleeding foes, of course - or have interesting things you can do once they start bleeding. Both are possible and perfectly legitimate.)

I was mostly just looking for something to help my fist damage be close to that of a better weapon. i was worried that fist damage wasnt enough, which meant enemies would stay alive longer, damaging longer since there is no one else to take the heat off me

Hopefully, your other two classes will be able to cover that somewhat. XD Once your classes really get going, problems of that nature should disappear.

Working on leveling up Harath now. I think i will retrain my Bloody Attack for Weapon Focus (Claw) which would let me qualify for Feral Combat Training next level.

Doing that should make it more worthwhile to go into my monster form, so my attack would be claw/claw/claw/bite (bite being at -5, and 3rd claw attack coming from Flurry of Fists blade skill, which would then apply by virtue of Feral Combat Training) and the claws should do d8s (from Claws of the Beast scaling).

I also realized that I missed my level 2 Blade Skill and the +1 to my enhanced strikes that comes from Soulknife. Since i have the +1 from the Nightmare Stone, I will probably add a weapon special to my strikes, so for level 4 it is still best for me to attack with unarmed strikes probably since i could get one of the +1 abilities that gives +1d6 damage.

I won't apply the retraining yet, since I have to spend time and gold and such. but i should have plenty of time, given the speed of leveling, to get that done this level

Oh, yeah. Finding time to train isn't usually TOO hard. ^^

in modifying Harath to be the Overmind Path, are there mythic abilities i have to change as they are not for the overmind? right now he has:

Pierce the Darkness(universal, so no prob)
Mythic Sustenance (universal, so no prob)
Arcane Endurance (probably has a psionic equivalent)
Legendary Item (universal, so no prob)

If i need to change, could you post the tier 1 abilities? or it could probably wait until tier 3, since i think the only one that might change would have a psionic equivalent.