Depending on what kind of stats we will be looking at I might try to make Samuel into a dex melee build. Weapon Finesse and Fencing Grace but his spell load out will probably be fine as I recall correctly.
I have always found it funny how ineffective the crossbow is in games, when it is a holy terror of a weapon in reality.
Various popes tried to ban the weapon's use in Christendom, saying it was a vicious weapon, suitable for use only against devils and infidels. :)
However, the only real difference between bows and crossbows in Pathfinder is the rate of fire, and the difference is perfectly realistic. Actually, it would have been very hard to reload a real medieval crossbow in the 6 seconds of a single combat round. But you can shoot arrows faster as well, so I suppose it's a wash.
Other than that, Deadly Aim is the main vector of missile damage growth and it applies just as well to crossbows.
But back on topic, Dengorin has proposed a basic idea for the former quest you guys did as a party. Let's see it fleshed out some more.
For example:
* Who were the bad guys?
* Why did they kidnap a bunch of people?
* How did you defeat the villains?
How about the bandits were a cover for a secret Lamashtu Cult operating in the area. After defeating them we had to sneak back into town and apprehend the Mayor/Priest of X/etc who was one of the leaders of the Cult due to evidence we found.
With the Lamashtu angle they might have been doing the sacrifices with some sort of purpose in mind like getting flesh twisting benefits or to summon up demons loyal to her.
Lamashtu is always a good angel, though so is Norgarbor.
For the record, the game will not be set in Golarion, so we are not tied to the normal Golarion deities. By all means use them, but if you want to import deities from other mythologies (other than Earth's, of course) feel free.
Lamashtu is a demon queen and any sort of demon lord makes for good villains.
Norgorber works also since she is a patron of undead.
Asmodeus or some other Arch-Devil could be a patron of slavers of some sort.
Whatever you choose, I may have villains from your past return to haunt you, so choose well!
Also, were the bulk of your enemies human? Or some other race?
What kinds of things did you have to do to defeat them?
What was their stronghold like?
You don't have to write a novel but I am hoping for a bit of creativity here.
Norgorber, as a woman. I can get into that. Probably get stabbed in the back, but them secrets.
Norgorber, as a woman. I can get into that. Probably get stabbed in the back, but them secrets.
Just realized I got Norgorber and Urgathoa mixed up. But either could be a decent patron for bad guys.
I find Lamashtu an interesting enemy as you can put weird templates on her followers due to her blessings. Mongrelmen and other such weirdness.
I've run premades with Norgorbor but Urgathoa doesn't seem to get as much love as some of the others.
Well to be fair outside of Asmodeus, none of the evil deities get much love.
I'm partial to Lamashtu, but a cult of Urgathoa could be a lot of fun - perhaps they believed that if they sacrificed enough people, they would be given an army of undead to command.
I'm actually envisioning a two-tiered villain group. The first is the cult of [insert evil deity here]. They're the masterminds and the ones behind the problems. The other is a group of bandits who they've manipulated into doing their bidding. The bandits are growing increasingly uncomfortable with the workings of the cult, but are too afraid to do anything about it. Perhaps even some of the bandits have been sacrificed, further shaking their morale.
The stronghold could have been a bandit encampment encircling an abandoned shrine that the cult had desecrated to their god. The bandits would be mostly human, half-elf, and half-orc, with maybe one or two others in there. The cult could be similar, but lead by a Tiefling or Dhampir.
Since the bandits loyalty isn't necessarily 100%, this means we could go in, fight some of them, convince other bandits to abandon their task and return to lives of normalcy, and then storm the shrine and kill the cultists to disrupt their ritual. The final battle could even have had a timer on it, as they were preparing to sacrifice one of the kidnap victims, and if we didn't save them, they would have been killed.
The two-tiered thing works.
So we have:
* A conspiracy by a group of cultists of Lamashtu.
* Enforced by a group of bandits.
* Abandoned Shrine
* Some of the bandits are convinced to desert the cause.
Not bad so far.
But let's expand. Here's some suggestions:
Where would this hideout be located?
* On a rocky seacoast
* In a dismal swamp
* On a mountain crag
* In a dark forest
* In dusty badlands
* In rugged hills
What type of stronghold? Where is this shrine?
* In a ruined castle
* In a forgotten temple
* In the sewers beneath a city
* In a natural cavern
* In a dark tomb
* In a seemingly innocent village
Aside from humanoids, do you face any monsters? Such as:
* Lycanthropes
* Summoned Demons
* Trained Guard Animals? What kind?
What was the most dangerous thing?
This one's important:
What was your character's greatest moment in the adventure?
The idea here is to craft some common memories for you guys.
Sorry I've been a bit less active lately, my mom had back surgery and I've mostly been taking care of her because well... I don't trust my stepdad to do it. He's just not good with that kind of thing.
Totally go for the dark forest.
Forgotten temple... yeah.
I love Lycans! I'd like it if we had the ability to maybe get them on our side with some work.
Also as the co-ruler part is gone... what will Abalia fill?
As I said previously hope she is feeling better soon.
Well it depends where things are when the dust settles, Grand Diplomat? Councilor if Dengorin slides over into high Priest. Consort isn't a primary role but it's one of the better secondary ones.
For the record, there will be a certain amount of exploration at the beginning before you guys actually found a settlement. You will be in command of a sea expedition with the first wave of colonists on board, but will be roleplaying where you want the ships to land, etc. So there will be a little bit of time at the beginning before you need to decide on roles, though it doesn't hurt to plan ahead.
I also intend to house rule a number of things in the kingdom building system that I didn't like. One of these things will be refining the kingdom roles. The reason I am taking my time here is that I am working on these rules.
THIS DOCUMENT has the revised kingdom roles. Note that this system adds a lot of minor officials at higher levels.
The "Big Six" roles that will need to be filled at the beginning are:
Ruler
Lord Chancellor (Justice Minister, did not exist in original system)
Lord Chancellor of the Exchequer (Treasurer)
Lord Privy Seal (Spymaster)
Lord Chamberlain (Grand Diplomat)
Lord Pontifex (High Priest)
Obviously with five of you at least one of these will have to be an NPC. With her current concept, Abalia might be a good Lord Chamberlain.
The settlements will also need a Lord Mayor. This is not a good one for a character to fill, and should be an NPC.
Once your kingdom gets to be size 11 or more you will need to add more (though you can add them earlier):
Lord High Sheriff (in charge of constabulary)
Lord Magister (Chief Magician)
Forester Royal (Monster Control Officer)
Lord High Admiral (Navy - the kingdom will be on an island or archipelago, so this is the chief of the military)
The process continues as things go on.
I'm guessing, based on reading the first section of the document, most of these changes involve better reflecting medieval society and government structure?
So, we have a dark forest with a forgotten temple. The lycanthropes could have been a pack that lived in the forest and were displeased by the encroachment of the bandits and cultists into the area. They could have attacked us, thinking we were with the bandits, but we were able to convince them we were hunting the bandits as well, and were able to talk our way out of them killing us in exchange for dispersing the bandits.
I'd say the most dangerous thing would have been summoned dretches that the cultists brought up - that or a quasit, but as Rise of the Runelords taught me, those are annoying for level 1-2 PCs to deal with.
Still thinking about a greatest moment in the adventure for myself. I may need to rework Dengorin before I decide on that - it'll help to know what he's actually capable of.
I'm guessing, based on reading the first section of the document, most of these changes involve better reflecting medieval society and government structure?
So, we have a dark forest with a forgotten temple. The lycanthropes could have been a pack that lived in the forest and were displeased by the encroachment of the bandits and cultists into the area. They could have attacked us, thinking we were with the bandits, but we were able to convince them we were hunting the bandits as well, and were able to talk our way out of them killing us in exchange for dispersing the bandits.
I'd say the most dangerous thing would have been summoned dretches that the cultists brought up - that or a quasit, but as Rise of the Runelords taught me, those are annoying for level 1-2 PCs to deal with.
Still thinking about a greatest moment in the adventure for myself. I may need to rework Dengorin before I decide on that - it'll help to know what he's actually capable of.
Remember that Lamashtu is a patron of Lycanthropes (at least evil ones). Some of the cultists could be lycanthropes themselves.
FYI guys I am making up "campaign traits" based on the previous adventure you are making up. I should have those ready soon.
We might as well start to talk about character builds.
Firstly, if you want to re-theme your character, or even play a different character, that's okay.
The previous GM in my mind went kind of overboard with character power. The three ranks per level and high point buy made it really hard for us to fail kingdom checks. As a player I will take what I can get, but it seemed that we didn't have to worry about the challenges posed by the system. We made all our kingdom checks on a roll of 2.
In my mind that takes some of the challenge out of it. The kingdom building rules are intended for an AP with four characters at 15-point buy.
VARIANT POINT-BUY
We're going to do something similar, but we will use a system that is a bit more forgiving to MAD classes. It goes like this:
SCORE ... POINTS
07 ________ -7
08 ________ -3
09 ________ -1
10 _________ 0
11 _________ 1
12 _________ 3
13 _________ 7
14 _________ 13
15 _________ 25
16 _________ 49
Using this system you get 45 points. You are allowed to gain no more than 10 extra points by dumping scores. This is roughly equivalent to 15-point buy, but it punishes you for trying to put a single score too high at the expense of others.
Before you argue that this will make your character too weak, I'll mention that I plan to give the party certain advantages. For example, in combat you will generally know the AC and HP of your enemies. This speeds things up (which is good for PbP) but gives the party an edge since they have a much clearer understanding about how tough their enemy is.
I will also point out that in hexcrawl exploration you have a lot of one-encounter days. You shouldn't assume that you will always be able to rest after every encounter but you will be able to use renewable resources a lot more frequently.
Other things:
The Not-Quite Ban-Hammer:
1. Please, avoid abilities that allow retcons, i.e. "the monster that just hit me now has to re-roll." I find that these disrupt the flow of PbP and I'd prefer to avoid them. If your class gives you something like this, the only way you get to use it is if you specify in advance in your posts "I will use my super-duper dodge power if the orc hits me for 10 damage or more." If you don't think you are organized enough to include posts like this, please don't take abilities like that.
2. Also, please avoid mass summoning abilities. I am not opposed to summoning but if you want your character to do that please make sure you are organized enough to manage this smoothly. In particular, I really don't want to see people use the 1d4+1 creatures or cast multiple summons in the same combat. Keep the speed of the game in mind.
3pp? Nope, sorry. There is enough Paizo material to drown in now and I have my hands full already.
Classes: Basically any Paizo, with a few exceptions.
* Barbarian, Monk, Rogue & Summoner should all be unchained
* No guns (so no gunslingers except bolt ace)
* Alchemists & investigators are re-themed (ask for details if you plan to play one)
* Occult classes are probably not a good fit for this campaign, though if you are really keen you can make a pitch for them. No kineticists.
* Fighters gain Combat Stamina as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Check out these Campaign House Rules. I am using them in another game and will also use them here.
Races: Most Paizo, but No "monster" races such as orcs or goblins. Also no high-powered races such as Drow. Planetouched races will be modified slightly - Aasimars and Tieflings will get nerfed a bit to make them roughly equal to other races.
Background Skills: Yes.
Hit Points: Max at 1st level. After that, as a group the party should decide whether they want to go with rolled HP or average round up.
Starting Wealth: 3000 gp. No crafting discounts (see Featless Crafting in house rules if you want to craft your own stuff).
Traits: Two, plus one free Campaign Trait. No drawbacks.
* BTW Fate's Favored is kind of broken. The fix is this: the Fate's Favored bonus only applies to one kind of thing, i.e. attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, skill checks, and so on. You decide this when you take the trait.
Let's start with that.
I forgot that Lamashtu was the patron of Lycanthropes. Some of the cultists being lycanthropes makes sense as well.
Out of curiosity, are we the guinea pigs on this Point Buy? I'm not complaining, I'm just curious since I don't think I've ever seen similar used before.
And missed the Edit window by 1 minute.
I just took a look at the house rules, and I thought I would mention that the Arcane Duelist gets a Bardic Performance similar to your "Intimidate to Rally" rule. See below.
At 1st level, an arcane duelist can use performance to rally dispirited allies. Each round he makes an Intimidate check. Any ally (including the bard) within 30 feet may use this check in place of his own saving throw against fear and despair effects. Those already under a fear or despair effect can attempt a new save each round using the bard’s Intimidate check. Rallying cry does not work on effects that don’t allow saves. This is a mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.This performance replaces countersong.
While I don't think it makes a difference in this campaign (unless someone switches), for other games this might be something to keep in mind. That way if someone does play an Arcane Duelist, they don't feel like you're nerfing their character.
Also, have you ever looked at the Feat Tax house rules? They seem like something you would enjoy using, especially the combat maneuver modifications.
Out of curiosity, are we the guinea pigs on this Point Buy? I'm not complaining, I'm just curious since I don't think I've ever seen similar used before.
Yeah, more or less.
For the record, the traditional "elite" array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 can be bought with these points exactly.
But, you could also go for 14, 14, 14, 12, 12, 10. Under the normal system, this would be a 19 point buy, whereas the elite array is 15. The idea is to make it easier to buy low-level points in multiple scores.
I just took a look at the house rules, and I thought I would mention that the Arcane Duelist gets a Bardic Performance similar to your "Intimidate to Rally" rule. See below.
Yes, and if someone wanted to play one we would have to houserule it.
I do feel that there are a lot of game mechanics where you get a class ability or feat to do something that should require no training at all.
Also, have you ever looked at the Feat Tax house rules?
I have. They are neat but I think he overdoes it. I remember building a character for a game that had those house rules and thinking it was Christmastime. My rules are kind of like a compromise between those rules and the official rules.
Question on the races, why nerf Tiefling? It follows the same +2, +2, -2 that most other races follow only Aasimar has the +2, +2 with no minus.
Out of curiosity, who's left and still paying attention to the thread? I'm definitely dropping the Cardinal archetype, but I'm trying to decide if I'll take a different one or maybe switch up my deity.
I am here! Obviously as I asked my question about the races. I was thinking about going Aasimar and changing my bloodline into something else since we'll actually he using it.
That's why I'm dropping the Cardinal archetype. It works great for a Cardinal Richelieu type that rarely deals with armed conflict, but not so good for an adventurer.
Question on the races, why nerf Tiefling? It follows the same +2, +2, -2 that most other races follow only Aasimar has the +2, +2 with no minus.
I'm not worried about the ability scores. But Tieflings get a lot of fairly powerful abilities. They have considerably more RP than most player races.
If you plan to make an Aasimar, the nerf is this:
They are normally outsiders. This changes to humanoid (outsider) instead, which means you can be affected by -person spells. You don't get Celestial as a bonus language. There are also three energy resistances - just pick one.
The Tiefling nerf is basically the same.
I'm still here and interested. I am hoping to get a chance to rework Samuel a little, probably a little more adventure capable and slight tweaks to personality since he doesn't have to be hard wired to stay at home. Probably still a default bard but I might get an odd notion.
Default bard is a strong all-around class.
But the Archivist or Archaeologist could both also do well for this game.
You will be exploring a tropical land, and inevitably there will be ancient ruins to explore.
So basically, Aasimar are required to have the Scion of Humanity alternate racial abilities. The Tiefling equivalent is Pass for Human.
Not that big of a nerf overall, seeing as players can choose to take those abilities. The energy resistance isn't a big deal either.
Since this is a tropical land, I'm guessing heavy armor may cause problems while we're exploring. Lighter armor may be called for.
I am currently leaning towards the Herald Caller archetype. This does focus on summoning, so I thought I would ask about it first.
I don't think Var is even viable as is. I'm going to keep the RP intact, but I will be doing a major overhaul on the character crunch.
So basically, Aasimar are required to have the Scion of Humanity alternate racial abilities. The Tiefling equivalent is Pass for Human.
Yes, but not quite.
Aasimar and Tieflings still do look weird. If they want to take the "Pass for Human" or "Scion of Humanity" trait to look human they will have to give something else up, either their SLA or the remaining energy resistance.
It's a little broken for Planetouched races to be immune to a whole group of spells for a mere 1 RP (since the Outsider type comes with Darkvision for free). And at the same time, they get considerably more stuff than most races.
For the record, other planetouched races get this treatment too, though for the elemental ones I give them a bit of an extra bonus to compensate, since they have less abilities.
Since this is a tropical land, I'm guessing heavy armor may cause problems while we're exploring. Lighter armor may be called for.
This is not a bad idea. If anyone plans to be a heavy armor type, you should think about how you will mitigate things like heat exhaustion. The simplest way would be the endurance feat, but there are others.
I am currently leaning towards the Herald Caller archetype. This does focus on summoning, so I thought I would ask about it first.
Hmmm... this puts things fairly heavily dependent on your deity. Planning to stick with Abadar?
It also has an 8th level bonus feat that only matters if you summon multiple creatures. I'm kind of leery of that as it seems that the whole point of the feat is to lay down a swarm of summons.
Do you have any thoughts as to how you would play this?
I don't think Var is even viable as is. I'm going to keep the RP intact, but I will be doing a major overhaul on the character crunch.
Knock yourself out.
It does make it very deity dependent. I was thinking of sticking with Abadar, but if I felt we needed melee support would switch to a deity with a melee favored weapon and drop Herald Caller.
The main way I would play Superior Summons is by only using the level appropriate summon list each time I cast Summon Monster. So, if I cast summon monster III, I would summon two things off the summon monster III list.
If you'd prefer, we could modify the archetype to, instead of giving Superior Summons, give Sacred Summons instead.
The main way I would play Superior Summons is by only using the level appropriate summon list each time I cast Summon Monster. So, if I cast summon monster III, I would summon two things off the summon monster III list.
Superior summons doesn't work like that. It only has an effect if you are already summoning multiple creatures with one spell.
If you'd prefer, we could modify the archetype to, instead of giving Superior Summons, give Sacred Summons instead.
I'll consider it. It is a fairly simple fix.
...Then it appears the Wizard in my face to face Kingmaker game read it wrong. Thank you for correcting me.
...Then it appears the Wizard in my face to face Kingmaker game read it wrong. Thank you for correcting me.
No worries.
The wording is pretty clear.
So... I know I want to change her to an Aasimar... but I can't settle upon her new bloodline. That and a busy weekend has kept me from doing much. I was leaning towards the Maestro Bloodline though. Thoughts?
So... I know I want to change her to an Aasimar... but I can't settle upon her new bloodline. That and a busy weekend has kept me from doing much. I was leaning towards the Maestro Bloodline though. Thoughts?
You should build your character with two things in mind. You will mainly be doing two things:
* Exploring a wild and untamed land, and
* Establishing and administering a colony.
So you need some versatility there. For sorcerers this mostly involves your choice of spells. The Maestro bonus spells mostly seem to be good for dealing with humanoids, but your other spells don't need to do that.
Not every character needs to be "woodsy" and not every character needs to be "social."
If you have an RP reason for going with the Maestro bloodline then go for it. But if you just want a kind of build that supports enchantment, there are many.
The fey bloodline bloodline works well for this but also has some nature-themed stuff. There's also the serpentine bloodline and the rakshasa bloodline to consider.
If you want to play an Aasimar, I don't mind, though you do see them a lot. So I would ask that you make sure you come up with a description that clearly shows that you are an Aasimar. you can get inspiration from the Alternative Physical Features Table though rolling is not necessary. You also need to have a bit of story about how it affected your life growing up among humans.
Okay guys, I will be leaving on vacation on Sept. 30th for two weeks. I'll be back by the 12th of October, and I'd like to aim to get started then. The main hurdle I am having is making up a map. I know what I want to do but it is a time-consuming process. Once the map is done the main obstacle is overcome.
Okay. Were we going to go with the swap of Superior Summoning for Sacred Summons?
Sorry guys, life kinda threw me a curve ball! I shall get on and reply when I get home tonight! Read though everything suggested and such.
Your characters will get two normal traits and then one campaign trait. No campaign trait may be taken by more than one character.
"Campaign Traits" for this campaign:
Lycanthrope Hunter - +2 to identify lycantropes and a monster's DR/silver is reduced by 1/3 your level (minimum 1) against your attacks. Your alchmeical silver weapons instead gain a bonus to damage equal to this amount against creatures with DR/silver.
Dashing Rescuer - you have a reputation for coming to the aid of those in need. Any circumstance bonuses for charisma checks based on the fact that you are coming to someone's aid are doubled, and when dealing with normal people who repect efforts to liberate or rescue people you get a +1 to diplomacy checks. Against those who would resent this (such as enemies that people need rescuing from) you get a -1 to diplomacy checks instead, but a +1 to intimidate checks.
Forest Stalker - You get a +2 on perception checks to avoid surprise in forests and jungles, and any miss chance to your attacks caused by concealment or total concealment due to foliage is reduced by 10%.
Woodsy - +1 to survival checks in forest or jungle, and +1 to knowledge (nature) checks to identify creatures native to these terrains. One of these skills becomes a class skill; if that skill is already a class skill for you the trait bonus increases to +2 for that skill. Choose an orison from the Druid spell list; you may cast this spell as a spell-like ability once per day.
Historian of Ruins - You gain a +2 to knowledge (history) and knowledge (engineering) checks pertaining to ancient ruins, and one of these skills becomes a class skill for you. You also gain a +2 on spellcraft checks to identify magic items from ancient cultures when you are using detect magic, and if you cannot cast detect magic you instead may identify such an object using knowledge (history), using the bonus above, though the DC will generally be 5 points higher.
Hardy Marcher - you gain a +2 to Fortitude saves to cope with hot or cold conditions and you only take half the normal amount of nonlethal damage from hot or cold environments, force marching and hustling, and starvation and thirst.
Treasure Seeker - You gain a +2 to appraise checks, profession (prospector) or (merchant) checks, and to perception checks that allow you to find hidden treasure. You may take 20 to analyze the value of non-magical things made from gemstones and/or precious metals. Appraise is a class skill for you.
Cult Breaker - +2 to knowledge (religion) checks to identify details of evil religions, and you may use knowledge (religion) to identify creatures summoned by divine casters with summon monster spells. You gain a +1 to hit priests of religions that oppose your alignment, and your caster level is one higher for your spells that affect such priests.
Okay. Were we going to go with the swap of Superior Summoning for Sacred Summons?
Yeah, I don't see a problem with that. Note though that your Aura (assuming that you go with Abadar) will be LN, even if you are LG or N yourself. So the only creatures that benefit from Sacred Summons will be LN creatures, and the basic summon monster list doesn't have any of those.
I will allow the Abadar-specific summons listed here: Abadar but aside from those there aren't really any summoned creature types that I can find that will get any benefit from this.
That's okay, I was looking at possibly switching up the deity and going with the base cleric. We look a little light on melee capability, so I was thinking I'd go with a more melee focused cleric.
Just checking in. Finally done with the high holy days, so I will get focused on this.
Has anyone put anything together character-wise?
In case you missed it, BUILD RULES ARE HERE.
CAMPAIGN TRAITS ARE HERE. You get a free campaign trait in addition to your two regular traits.
I'm also going to get you to come up with three NPCs that are accompanying you. They can be people that you rescued on your last mission or people that you know in other ways. One will be a 2nd level character with a PC class but the other two will be first level NPCs. You don't need to stat them out, just give the basic details. "Bob Jones, Carpenter (Human Expert 1) is enough, though a few personal details about them would be good.
This is to compensate for the fact that in this type of campaign you normally would have accumulated a number of NPC "contacts" between first and third level which can fill NPC kingdom roles.
I am pretty much done with my character, I just need to transfer that to here. It's on my laptop and I'm on my phone right now because we've been having internet problems. Hopefully it'll be fixed tomorrow!
I settled with remaining human but changing her bloodline to Celestial Bloodline.
I'm still overhauling, or more rebuilding from scratch.
Still tweaking it.
We don't need a hard deadline for characters but I am mostly ready.
For the record, we can also start thinking about the composition of the expedition as a whole.
We will be assuming that there will be about 500 colonists along on the first voyage to settle the new colony. But what professions they will be will be up to you. So you could decide that you want X farmers, Y fishermen, Z miners, and so on. Some can be soldiers if you want to start with a military unit, but this is not required.
Don't you think you might be going a little too into fine details?
Still reworking it. I'm abandoning ranged support for melee support, since I think we'll need it. I'm also taking Herald Caller off the table.