The Colony of Varas--A Kingdom Building Game

Game Master Eragar

As much as it makes more sense thematically to use total skill bonus, I'm concerned about balance, so I won't be houseruling that (but do remember that I changed it to a max of three ranks in each skill per level, rather than just the one).

I wasn't going to suggest that you do +1 per every +5 of total skill bonus. That would certainly be broken, since getting an additional +5 from having the skill in class and the ability score are pretty easy.

But I should be able to take character options like the Skill Focus feat to improve this bonus.

My suggestion would be one of these:

I thought the rule was a +1 bonus for every 5 skill ranks, not bonus. With the house rule of 3 skill ranks per level in a skill, that's 9 ranks total for an extra +1. Unless I'm misremembering?

I thought the rule was a +1 bonus for every 5 skill ranks, not bonus. With the house rule of 3 skill ranks per level in a skill, that's 9 ranks total for an extra +1. Unless I'm misremembering?

Yes, that's the rule as written. But I am suggesting a house rule to reward characters for taking character options like feats, racial bonuses, traits, etc. that improve those skills.

Incidentally, here is our current leadership council:

BTW, strictly speaking, since the rulers eventually end up applying their bonuses to all 3 kingdom scores, I might suggest that rulers not be allowed to take a second role. That seems overkill. We are already allowing two rulers, which is awesome.

Let's group these by bonuses:

Economy +12
Treasurer: Kurhat Grimjaw +5
Magister: Varden Baile Phuir +4
Marshal: Elin Kerensky +3

Loyalty +7
Councilor: Dengorin Kaltaneos +5
Royal Enforcer: BeastMasterFTW ?
Warden: Elijah Moore +2

Stability +12
General: Qazag Qoroshuk +6
Grand Diplomat: Abalia Kerensky +6
High Priest: BeastMasterFTW ?

Choice:
Ruler: Samuel Kerensky +5
Ruler: Abalia Kerensky +6
Spymaster: Varden Baile Phuir +4

While we're on the subject, has anybody heard from BeastMasterFTW? The bonuses he gets are kind of important.

Ah, so an extra +1 if you took Skill Focus in the related skill, or something like that?

I'd be okay with a bonus from feat investments, but I'm not sure about racial bonuses and traits. Traits aren't designed to provide that big of a boost (barring some like Rich Parents) to the overall character, and I don't know that just being a certain race that gets a bonus to a skill should provide a bonus to the Kingdom, especially since I don't believe many races give a bonus to most of the associated skills.

He may be having trouble posting with all the site difficulties. I have a player in my RotRL PbP that finally got through last night because every time they tried to post, the site was down.

Oh, and I have 8 ranks in Knowledge (local), so I provide a +5 total bonus, not +4.

Ah, so an extra +1 if you took Skill Focus in the related skill, or something like that?

I'd be okay with a bonus from feat investments, but I'm not sure about racial bonuses and traits...

The point is to measure how good you are in the associated skill rather than simply the number of ranks. If you look at my example on the previous page you will see me illustrate how the current rules could give a character with a net +3 skill and a character with a net +17 skill the same +1 role bonus. That just seems wrong.

Most trait bonuses grant +1 to a skill, which is equivalent to 1 rank.
But you can never get more than 1 since they don't stack. Likewise, racial bonuses generally are +2 to a skill. So not enough to give you a +1 role bonus on their own, but they add up.

BTW I edited the entry for your bonus.

Okay if Abalia picks Stability as her ruler one, we get a +17(+18 if Qazag reworks) to it alone.

If Samuel picks Loyalty over Economy we will have a +11 in that. Giving us a +11 in Economy as well.

Note: This is the base numbers just using the ability stats that go along with the jobs. This does not account for Varden's variable nor BeastMaster's character.

doing some rolling now, not sure exactly what to go for, im gonna look through things first.

4d6=13
4d6=12
4d6=14
4d6=15
4d6=13
4d6=10
Wow, nice 20 point buy there. no particularly high stats, so we will see how this goes.

Since this is the stats that he rolled. It looks like we could get a +3 to a +2 to either Loyalty or Stability.

Yeah, I saw that you picked up Skill Focus. That moment when you realize that it doesn't actually do anything. I thought of taking Skill Focus too, but I came to the same conclusion. But boy oh boy, do I have an incredible Profession Merchant bonus, which I will use to do terrible, terrible things.

BeastMasterFTW wrote:

doing some rolling now, not sure exactly what to go for, im gonna look through things first.

4d6=13
4d6=12
4d6=14
4d6=15
4d6=13
4d6=10
Wow, nice 20 point buy there. no particularly high stats, so we will see how this goes.

Since this is the stats that he rolled. It looks like we could get a +3 to a +2 to either Loyalty or Stability.

Well, remember that we all start with a +2 belt or headband. So we might get a +4.

Well I officially failed a reading comprehension test there. I missed the bit about ranks in character creation.

Abalia Kerensky wrote:

BeastMasterFTW wrote:

doing some rolling now, not sure exactly what to go for, im gonna look through things first.

4d6=13
4d6=12
4d6=14
4d6=15
4d6=13
4d6=10
Wow, nice 20 point buy there. no particularly high stats, so we will see how this goes.

Since this is the stats that he rolled. It looks like we could get a +3 to a +2 to either Loyalty or Stability.

Well, remember that we all start with a +2 belt or headband. So we might get a +4.

I took that into consideration. A +2 to a 15 would give you a 17 which is still only a +3. Not I don't know what race he is playing so his race could change that.

Okay if Abalia picks Stability as her ruler one, we get a +17(+18 if Qazag reworks) to it alone.

If Samuel picks Loyalty over Economy we will have a +11 in that. Giving us a +11 in Economy as well.

Note: This is the base numbers just using the ability stats that go along with the jobs. This does not account for Varden's variable nor BeastMaster's character.

BTW, the Spymaster role gets to move his bonus around on each turn.

If we assume BeastMasterFTW will get a +4 then we have:
Economy +12
Loyalty +11
Stability +16

BeastMasterFTW could actually get a +5 if he put skill ranks and racial ability bonuses in the right places. Though his two roles use different ability scores. So if he had a +5 in one he would have at best a +3 in the other.

Loyalty is the least important of the three, but you can't afford for it to fall too low because events use it. There are some events that make your kingdom bleed out if your loyalty is too low. Loyalty is also the hardest score to build up by buying things.

Once you are able to get Loyalty and Stability up to your control DC, you don't need to boost them that much any more (just have them keep pace with your Control DC), so at that point you can dump everything into Economy.

I know that spymaster can shift it. It's a variable. Which is why I didn't add it at all as it is his choice as to where it starts. While I'd like him to put it into Stability I'm not going to force him. This I left it out.

I am only doing the base numbers. I didn't even touch upon skills.

Also Stability should be a 17 at min.

If Samuel picks Loyalty over Economy we will have a +11 in that. Giving us a +11 in Economy as well.

Note: This is the base numbers just using the ability stats that go along with the jobs. This does not account for Varden's variable nor BeastMaster's character.

I'll wait to see the finished base numbers before I nail it down once and for all but you are always rolling economy, loyalty doesnt come up as much. It might be worth the gamble and get better stuff going sooner but thats a gamble, if we end up doing large scale combat early on we'll be using loyalty a lot.

Eragar wrote:

As much as it makes more sense thematically to use total skill bonus, I'm concerned about balance, so I won't be houseruling that (but do remember that I changed it to a max of three ranks in each skill per level, rather than just the one).

I wasn't going to suggest that you do +1 per every +5 of total skill bonus. That would certainly be broken, since getting an additional +5 from having the skill in class and the ability score are pretty easy.

But I should be able to take character options like the Skill Focus feat to improve this bonus.

My suggestion would be one of these:

Grant a +1 for every +7 of the character's skill bonus, or

Grant a +1 for having a skill bonus of +10, and then another +1 for every additional +5 after that.

I prefer the second one, I think, since most of the bonuses that could apply (such as class bonus, ability score, traits, racial bonuses) only ever apply once.

Right now my skill breakdown is based on a number of skills that I think Qazag ought to have to stay in character, like Ride and Handle Animal. I don't want to optimize too much, to the point where my character doesn't make sense. I could have sunk all my ranks into Profession (soldier) and Intimidate (in case I end up also being the Royal Enforcer) and had nothing else.

You make a good argument. Very well.

We will be using Qazag's second recommendation. Rather than just using every 5 skill ranks, you will get a bonus of +1 for the first +10 in a skill and +1 for every +5 thereafter. You may modify you characters to reflect this new rule.

By the way, BeastMaster messaged me. He will still be playing with us.

I think I will keep my skills as is sadly, Just not enough skills to go around and everything she has is something I feel she'd need or had when she was an adventurer.

Adjustments have been made and totaled.

BTW one of the reasons I am taking Handle Animal is that there may be an opportunity to train "nonstandard" mounts for our army.

Also:
The Kingdom building rules are intended for the Kingmaker AP, where the land to be settled is landlocked. But we clearly will have a seacoast. So should there not be a leadership role for "Admiral?"

I will have to think about having an Admiral. I'll let you guys know in the morning when I get back from work.

Without modifying the character sheet thats is bringing Samuel up to a +6.

His skill bonus for Knowledge nobility is +17. 9/Ranks+2/Int+3/Class Skill+2/Noble Scion+1/Bardic Knowledge.

Without modifying the character sheet thats is bringing Samuel up to a +6.

His skill bonus for Knowledge nobility is +17. 9/Ranks+2/Int+3/Class Skill+2/Noble Scion+1/Bardic Knowledge.

Woot! OK, updating:

Economy +12
Treasurer: Kurhat Grimjaw +5
Magister: Varden Baile Phuir +4
Marshal: Elin Kerensky +3

Loyalty +7
Councilor: Dengorin Kaltaneos +5
Royal Enforcer: BeastMasterFTW ?
Warden: Elijah Moore +2

Stability +12
General: Qazag Qoroshuk +6
Grand Diplomat: Abalia Kerensky +6
High Priest: BeastMasterFTW ?

Choice:
Ruler: Samuel Kerensky +6
Ruler: Abalia Kerensky +6
Spymaster: Varden Baile Phuir +4

I'm guessing there may be a few more tweaks before we get underway. I haven't picked traits yet so I might end up with another +1.

I also won't be adjusting my skill points. My skill distribution is precisely what Dengorin needs to be a politically savvy clergyman, so I'll stick with it as is.

I don't know that an Admiral rulership council position is needed. The General position is meant to represent the commander of the military. That can easily include any Navy we may end up having.

Heck, technically, we don't even need to have a navy, since I don't think they adapted the Mass Combat rules to Ship Combat.

I think that would really depend upon if we make our capitol near the sea or not. If we're further inland having an Admiral wouldn't really do is any good. I mean yeah we land on the seacoast since we have to take ships over there but we don't have to stay there.

Well now, a navy is always useful if you're at the ocean's edge. It helps give you a layer of defence where walls cannot.

It would make sense to have a port which is the landing point for ships as they reach the new continent. And since we basically have to explore outwards from there it also makes sense that it be the capital.

The ideal spot for the first settlement would probably be a river estuary, so there is fresh water and a bay to harbor ships in. Rivers are very valuable in kingdom building. Ideally there would also be some kind of hill nearby for a stronghold of some kind.

Though if we get to the point where we no longer want to be a colony of the mother country we should move the capitol inland, in case Beral decides it wants its colony back.

GM: I see there is a map up now on the campaign page. Any chance you can include a key, so we can tell what the colors and symbols mean?

BTW, GM: You might find this link useful: Hexographer
It's a free program for making hex maps. There is a paid version but the free version has everything you need.

GM! You are evil!! And I love it!!! XD
Hahaha!
Also everyone I apologize ahead of time, I broke the one rule... I gave the GM ideas...

GM: I see there is a map up now on the campaign page. Any chance you can include a key, so we can tell what the colors and symbols mean?

There is a key in one of the other links (It should say in the title of the link). Speaking of that though, I should explain a bit.

Since you guys have decided to start your colony from scratch, you'll need to decide exactly where you're going to land (but your first settlement must be on the coast. Having a port is kind of important). Once you've chosen where you want to settle you or I can move the floating objects to the relevant tile and we'll go from there.

Also, while I'm thinking about it--heads up that for the first two months you will not be able to collect taxes, as your citizens won't be working regular jobs. However, you will have no limit to the number of buildings you can build, and several buildings will probably pop up on their own as people work extra to get things started.

And, Kurhat: As the Treasurer, you will need to decide how many of those 70 BP to take as BP, and how much to convert to gold (you'll need cash for things like paying adventurers, bribing important people, and other similar things. Most people won't accept sheep and lumber as payment).
You will, of course, be able to convert between the two at any time in the future, but this is the only chance you'll have to get the full 4,000 gold per BP, rather than 2,000. Choose wisely.

Looking at the map, I think that snagging a plains hex for the first city should be the plan. They cost the least to prepare for a city, and are good for building farms which reduce consumption. The area bracketed by the marsh might be a good choice, as there are likely more undiscovered plains hexes for future expansion in that area, and the other plains area is bracketed by desert, which would be a lot harder to work with.

Guys, really sorry, been having some IRL problems, throwing together an alias now.

It's cool. I just assumed you were stuck with all the access issues that have been plaguing Paizo. Hope things settle down IRL for you soon.

That too lol. Not finished yet, but this is what i got so far.

Oh! Don't forget that after 35 humans start taking penalties to some stats and buffs to others.
Also if I may ask, why bard?

I'm also curious why Bard - originally you were going to go Warpriest. I'm curious about Tsiala's backstory, too.

Why bard. The question I ask myself everyday. With the new rule, I now have a +7 to Economy. That's pretty frightening, but I think I'll handle such overwhelming power! As for the starting BP, I will exchange 25 of it for gold. That's 100k gold and I feel that'll be fine for whatever would be needed. Should leave us with 45 BP and enough gold to last months of paying people, with a soft cushion of financial stability.

And I can do a little explorin' in those two month, as I'm not going to be doing anything with taxes.

Couple reasons. 1, wrong archetype, ment to be dervish of dawn. 2, we alreadyias and have a cardinal cleric, and I wanted a character semi competent in combat for enforcer role, as well as having good skill points. Bard just kind of fit everything I wanted, especially the archetype. Also wrong age lol. I copied most of this from another alias and edited it

I think our first thing should be setting up shelter and having people scout the area so that we can get farms started. Maybe even a granary.

Btw, with how I have my character mapped out now, it will be 6-7 to stability and 4-5 to loyalty.

Farms for food, a few shops to start the money rolling in, scouting, and some defenses. Probably manpower related defenses first, then non-manpower defenses.

BTW, strictly speaking, since the rulers eventually end up applying their bonuses to all 3 kingdom scores, I might suggest that rulers not be allowed to take a second role. That seems overkill. We are already allowing two rulers, which is awesome.

So, I was scrolling up in the thread, and I happened to reread Qazag's post where he put this, and I realized it might be a good idea. Otherwise, Abalia would basically be able to double-dip her bonus to Stability, and while we are bending the rules to allow for people to fill multiple roles, I think having someone double-dip for adding to one stat really kind of stomps on the spirit of the rules.

I can honestly understand the need for skills points, I only get 5 a level myself, it just feels... Off having a high priest who isn't a divine caster. But that's just me.

We will also need homes for us to live in, remember that.

But then we also have to deal with missing a Grand Diplomat...

I'd Be happy to switch my character up a bit, maybe even change classes and go for grand diplomat. Honestly that fits more for what i have in mind, and grand diplomat is more important than royal enforcer methinks. Then you could take enforcer Qazag, as you mentioned earlier.

Royal enforcer is one of the one we can leave open with no penalties. Or we could give it to the Gerneral who is also a big scary half-orc! XD

Tsiala, did you consider Oracle at all for your character? I'd think a flame oracle would be suitable for Sarenrae, and it would help with the skill point issue you had.

Tsiala, did you consider Oracle at all for your character? I'd think a flame oracle would be suitable for Sarenrae, and it would help with the skill point issue you had.

Being done now. I thought of that just a minute ago. I was thinking lore mystery though, im not sure. Lore mystery would be more helpful gameplay wise, but flame is more flavorful. Solar would be even more flavorful however. I think im gonna go for that, unless anyone else has other suggestions.

Solar would be really flavorful. I'd say take that, especially since this is supposed to be RP-based.

Ok, everything is done, and I don't know if stability will be much of a problem anymore.

Also in relation to you post dengorin, I could switch one of them to a diffrent stat, in which case it would be 13

We need to build a garrisson in the first month or those bastard soldiers will eat through our build points at a rate of 16 a month.

On the subject of the rolls and IC. Id suggest we do the IC discussions off screen as it'd take weeks in real life for foregone conclussions.

Lastly as long as we are rewarding adventurers if we go with magic items that Samuel can make Eragar might let us hire them a bit cheaper. Crafting cloaks of Resistance +1 as rewards etc. Depends on our local market and demand for such things.

Also, if the GM agrees with Qazag and Abalia becomes on a co-ruler, I would like to redo her skills then. Since she won't need a few of them.