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May need a day or three to get ready. Borax levels and this means I need to solidify any choices I've made. I also need to figure out what I need to craft and any spells I might want to add as formula.
One thing I am seriously reconsidering is the use of the Hand Crossbow and the two feats needed to use it. I'm starting at ask myself what the hell is the point of this thing and the only thing I can come up with, is delivering poisons. But even crafting them, they are ridiculously expensive per use and the DC's are so low that they are barely useful.
I'm thinking of switching out the crossbow feats for a whip, or some other reach weapon, but I'm having trouble finding something that I think suits Borax's demeanor.
If people have suggestions or idea, I'm all ears.
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Prothero is all leveled up. Didn't have too many choices to make, but he got a lot more effective with his bow.
I kind of agree with you, Borax, on the hand crossbow. And having a melee weapon that lets you attack from a bit of distance is a good idea. If the whip strikes you as being outside of what Borax would feel suited to him (and I can understand that, though it somehow seems to fit okay with the sword cane), I imagine a longspear would feel wholly inappropriate. In short, I think you're asking a good question, but I don't have much else by way of an answer.
But I have a question!
Prothero has a wad of money - about 1500 gp. His fame lets him buy items up to 500 gp, and he's also got 2 prestige points to spend. He's got a MW composite bow with a Str bonus, and a wand of CLW. Any other must-have items at this stage?
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Borax, not having a Str or Dex makes it tough determining whether to go with melee or ranged. You won't be doing much damage either way, so perhaps focus on the control of a whip? Easy boost with Improved Trip. And Borax does strike me as the type to boast over standing while his foes are felled to the ground. Just my first instinct in the matter.
Prothero, you may think of waiting a session then enchanting your bow. What about a light source? Ioun torch is a common investment, wayfinders as well.
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Prothero, I'd seriously consider holding off on buying a composite longbow of any particular Str at all and just save up for the 3 grand you'll need to turn your masterwork bow into a +1 Adaptive bow; that way when you boost your Strength in the future, you don't have to get a whole new bow.
edit: Sior, I've got some shopping to do before we head out for part 2. Here's my tracking sheet.
Basically selling off my armour and weapon and buying
masterwork longspear
masterwork four mirror armour
2 holy water
2 acid
1 alkali flask
1 smelling salts
and spending those shiny new PP on a CLW wand.
(What's gold for, if not spending?)
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Defah - I spent Prothero's first 2 PP on a MW composite longbow, so that decision was made a while ago, but it didn't cost me any gold. The Adaptive idea is a good one, though.
Sior - light source, excellent plan. Will add an ioun torch.
And I realize I'm unclear on a PFS rule. Does the table showing Fame and Max Item Cost in the PFS guide mean I can't spend more than that on any item? The guide says it's for buying items from my faction, which I hadn't noticed before. If I just want to spend gold to enchant my bow, do I have to wait until I have 13 Fame, which makes me able to spend 3000 gp? Or can I spend that money as soon as I have it, regardless of Fame?
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Your total fame limits the total cost of an item you can own. There are some exceptions, that those include +1 items. You can also buy any item on one of your chronicle sheets regardless of cost.
So you can buy a +1 Composite Longbow at level 1 despite your fame, but you can't buy a +1 Cloak of Resistance unless it appears on a chronicle sheet for your character.
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Bringing all our OOC discussion about crossing the desert here:
I agree with Borax, I think we can avoid getting lost, it's just dealing with whatever other surprises the desert has for us, in terms of harsh conditions or beasties.
I've already got a hot weather outfit, and if anyone can contribute endure elements, that would certainly be helpful.
Defah - I think the higher-tier question discussed some in the recruitment thread, and Sior had some thought on how to address it, don't recall what it was. I'd certainly like to do all three parts with this group if possible.
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Prothero,
No, it is not a problem at all. While these scenarios are intended to be played in order, I see nothing currently saying they must be played back to back. If that were the case, why the hell would they make the third one a higher tier? I do currently expect that there will be some people unable to continue through to Part III. So we can consolidate tables as need be.
If it turns out we need to stagger a start for the third part, or delay it entirely until after Paizo Con, then that works. My goal is to give as much opportunity to those who want to play as I can! =)
Actually, I did not know when Paizo Con was this year, hahaha.
I think everyone would need at most 3 games or one module to play part 3, as I do not think anyone started this with 0xp. So if we need to delay a start a little then that's fine by me. =)
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I can run something else if you all have scenarios you are all able to play. My personal library extends from season 0 through 3-23 The Goblinblood Dead (which is also a 1-5, incidentally...). I also have a smattering of Season 4 and early Season 5. Not that I'm opposed to dropping 4$ for a scenario. =P
Update inbound. Have to copy a map real quick.
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My understanding is you can play a module for PFS credit as long as you're within one level of the recommended level. So we could play a level 1 or 2 module with this party and all get credit, even if one of us picks up another chronicle or two along the way.
That said, I just looked on the Modules product page, and there don't seem to be second level modules. So we'd have to play a first level, and I'd have to be sure Prothero doesn't play more than one scenario at PaizoCon. Complicated...
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I'm not overly worried about Defah's PP count, so the best solution I see is either my finding a couple daytime online games for Defah right after we finish part 2 (The Confirmation + a module most likely - is Thornkeep I replayable? I'm not sure what other modules exist for a second level character.) or I could switch characters (I have a third level inquisitor that was meant to be just for Thornkeep but hasn't found a Thornkeep II game yet) / relinquish my spot to someone who's already got a third level character ready to go.
Mostly I just want to give everyone in the group the chance to finish the whole series during the event if possible. (Actually, I'm not sure if that's feasible; how long do we have left before the end of the event?)
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I agree about the PP count, Defah. Also, I didn't expect we'd get through all three parts during Gameday, especially with the tier jump after Part II. My understanding was we'd aim to finish the first two during Gameday, then come back together for Part III after PaizoCon, which is the weekend of July 5.
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I didn't expect to finish a third game in the time frame of the game day, regardless of that it was. There was just no sense in running parts 1 and 2 and not at least trying to go for part 3, especially with the boon given at the end of this scenario.
Truthfully, I have never understood the aversion to gaining 4 guaranteed PP as opposed to the possibility of 6. But that's just me.
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One of my biggest regrets with my very first character was playing We Be Goblins and only getting 1 PP. That one PP set me back quite a bit in terms of purchasing gear. Not only is one denied even a chance at the 2 PP, I believe we also have to forgo Day Jobs until the end. So that's two day jobs rolls I'll be missing out on as well. If the module provided something incredibly valuable to an Investigator, I suppose I could be tempted.
I GM'd Masks of the Living God. And I did not like it. The modules are not written for PFS and, at least for MotLG, had huge logic/plot gaps which made it extremely challenging to GM. Reading the GM thread, the outcomes are so varied in the module, it's like everyone played a different one.
The other big issue with modules is that they are extremely long. This dramatically increases the risk one or more participants will not be able to finish the scenario.
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Darvik has played The Accursed Halls FWIW. I would be level 3 after this adventure though. I do believe there is a module that is 2-4 that is not a Thornkeep one, forget what it was.
Of course, ol' Darvik could simply take a break if there are others that need to get to level 3 for Part 3. I'd prefer to continue but if its an issue it wouldn't kill me as I'm in plenty of games at the moment.
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Just to clarify something, the module is a double-whammy on PP because it's not just that you get one/two less, it's your Fame total is less as well. So this affects the point at which you can afford better gear and can be a factor early in one's career.
That having been said, I think modules end up being an important mechanism for allowing long time players a way to continue play PFS as eventually one will exhaust all the scenarios.
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Considering that the official outlook is players should only be getting 2 PP about 75% of the time, it's not that you're behind. It is simply that you're ahead. The secret secondary conditions are set to increase the difficulty of getting that second prestige. Sadly, they were not too thought out and most are hella easy or simply doing the mission in the first place. Paizo needs to step up their game if they want to keep Fame levels and WBL levels equal. As it stands, one of my characters bought Celestial Armour at level, I think it was 6? Basically as soon as I got the Fame for it. It caused a whole uproar locally because many thought it was too soon in my career for it. But I had the gold, I had the fame, so I got it. But that wanes lengthy, so I'll shut it.
Still in favour of modules for the most part. Though one big point is that they are not written for PFS, so it's hard to get a proper hook in there.
Also, you are allowed to do Day Jobs at the end of a module.
(As for the two missed DJ rolls, I think modules pay better than three in-tier scenarios, anyway, even if only by a little, making up for the lost day jobs.)
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Considering that the official outlook is players should only be getting 2 PP about 75% of the time, it's not that you're behind. It is simply that you're ahead.
Awhile back there was a big discussion on faction missions and the system. This statement was thrown out a lot, but I haven't seen Mike or John publish stats, did they? I think it was based on something MIke or John or someone said. But here's the problem. All the faction missions were doable under the old system. So how do we know only 75% of the PP were awarded?
I can tell you from my own experience, I've only seen a person lose a PP in scenario twice. Once on a PbP game I was reading. The DC was like 25 for first level characters. I think that was a typo or something. The second was a guy who didn't speak Tian and had a negative Diplomacy modifier and refused to ask anyone for help.
At PaizoCon and my FLGS games, I didn't see anyone fail their missions. In fact, in my experience, the norm is for the GM to give lots of leeway for creative solutions even when people have failed their first attempt.
With Season 5, there were some early failures because GMs where not telling players what needed to be done. But Mike Brock, in response to one my questions, specifically said the GM is supposed to provide the player with in-game clues on how to complete the mission rather than forcing the player to rely on the faction letters alone. I can provide you with the link you need it.
Consider that there is no way for the authors to make it true that you only get 75% of the PP, so while that may be their original intent, that's not been my experience. I bring this all up, just so you don't feel like you are doing something wrong if your players aren't failing 25% of the time.
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Are you talking about the old system or under the new system? The old system you were given faction letters. I did the Cypher Mage for PaizoCon and everyone got the 2 PP.
I also did the entire QFP and everyone got full PP on every stage. Though the first mission I did see a character fail her check, but as I said, she wasn't in my party..
I'm not saying people don't occasionally fail a faction mission, I'm saying IME across at least a dozen GMs and over 30+ missions, I've only seen one person not get both PP in a scenario I was in.
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I've run Cyphermage under both old and current faction system. No one got 2 PP in the new system.
This does not surprise me. I'm going to quote you the link form Mike Brock on secondary success conditions and the faction missions.
I would think a quality GM would provide information creatively without having to be told. I can't remember if we included this in the guide under GM creativity, and if we didn't, we will remedy that in the next version of the guide.If the success conditions are clearly defined, and we leave it to the GMs to creatively provide this info to players and allow players to complete their missions creatively, and it isn't happening, how are we ever supposed to allow GMs to be more creative in altering other things written in the scenario, such as difficulty of combats and the like?Do DMs know they're supposed to be providing that information creatively? If you look upthread there's the opinion that its now the players' responsibility to have that information when they sit down at the table.
Under the new system a lot of GMs aren't communicating to players what needed to be done. Players are having to guess. It would seem Mike is stating this is a mistake on the part of the GMs but acknowledging PFS needs to explicitly state this.
The other difference in the new system is that the secondary PP is all or nothing for the entire party. So where as before, maybe one person might fail, 5 other players are getting their PP and that is higher than 75%. Now, the entire party misses out. I have no idea what the population stats are under the new system especially for the older missions. I just did Shades of Ice at Tier 1-2 and everyone got the 2 PP, but the GM failed to tell us or even give us clues as to what was expected of us.
I did Cypher Mage pre-season 5. I don't even know what the secondary mission is, so maybe whoever wrote that one made it really difficult.
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IIRC, the secondary was to keep the hostage alive in the boss fight. And the boss kills the hostage on his first turn. Our group talked about it afterward and none of us could see any way that, given our characters, we could have stopped him doing so. (Actually, looking back, Sior was the GM for that game, so we might be remembering the same playthrough.)
Mostly the new secondaries seem to be along the lines of do even better than the explicitly stated requirements, so I haven't felt surprised by what it was yet. I'm expecting not to get one on Quest for Perfection because our goon squad of a team has blown so many skill checks at potentially interesting places that it's come down to walk from A to B, get the McGuffin and walk back to A, killing everything on the way.
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IIRC, the secondary was to keep the hostage alive in the boss fight. And the boss kills the hostage on his first turn.
Since I haven't read the scenario or seen the added SSC, I can't specifically comment. But it would not surprise me if there were several such "impossible" situations. To my knowledge, PFS enlisted the help of a lot of volunteers/VO's to do retroactively do these.
If you look through past discussion about PP, you'll notice a vocal contingency of GMs/VOs who are almost irate when players voice an complaint about not getting 2 PP. Anytime someone talks about getting 2 PP they view it as someone thinking the are "entitled" to the 2PP and respond with hostility and animosity. So I will guess that when some of those VO's were allowed to create SSC, they went out of their way to make them difficult.
On one of the QFP scenarios we had a character who had +9 on most of the skill checks and that helped. If we had been a party of barbarians, then I'm sure some of us would have failed. Maybe I've been extremely lucky and been blessed with cooperative players, balanced characters, and friendly GMs.
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So Borax, can we take it you would be unwilling to do a module? I don't feel strongly about doing one, it just kind of neatly fits our need. I'm actually a bit ambivalent about it myself, because it'll limit my options for playing Prothero at PaizoCon, but that may or may not be an issue, depending on what tier games I end up playing there.
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Unless the module offers boons perfect for my investigator, I would probably avoid it. My exposure to them has left a bad taste in my mouth, and that is independent of the PP issue.
The last time one of my characters avoided a module, he out leveled the guys who he could have played along next to. I would be happy to play under Sior for another scenario, as I think he is a very good GM. I also would be willing to reconvene to do the last scenario at a later date..
Besides, I think Borax only needs two scenarios to hit level three after this so there's a good chance he'd be ready by the time you guys finished a module.