Grrr, I had typed up a post last night but I must've closed the browser before submitting.
It's kinda moot now, but I don't think the soul idea is a good one. What happens if we die during that time? Would he keep what makes us heroes since it wouldn't have anywhere to go? Makes it seem to tempting for him to kill us without knowing. It was a decent idea though, sacrificing a small bit to try to save lives.
Yep. I do like that you're thinking creatively... i'm just uncomfortable with the ramifications of that particular angle.
Lyrica was too busy putting on her armor. There is no way she should lose her immortal soul for something she did not even do. Even if the party did kill the doll, I agree that they should not be held responsible for it. Making a deal with the demon is the worse thing that any of us could do.
Yeah, looks like he's incapable of doing any partial deals anyway. The thing is, while I don't want to trade away my soul, I think we're going to have to come to some sort of agreement with Black (which means give him something he wants). Even if he agrees to just take Tull and Trannyth as part of the previous deal, what's to stop him from just casually murdering all of us for fun? The only way to avoid that is to give him some sort of deal, I think.
If that were the case, though, why wouldn't he have simply done that in the first place? If he has the freedom to wantonly kill, we're screwed already. I'm going to approach the problem as if he's on a leash of some kind... or at least bound by some set of rules.
You may be right; we may end up having to figure out some kind of deal. Then again, he may be twisting the situation and his words to make us think there's only one option.
... or maybe we don't yet realize we're all dead already. :D
HA! Definitely a tactical option to keep in mind here.
If I were to guess, killing us doesn't get a soul. It just kills us and sends us to whatever afterlife we should be going to. He wants souls, and to get that he has to make a deal. So making a deal may be EXACTLY what he wants from us. By keeping us alive he may get another chance later.
I'm not going to confirm all of that but you are correct that killing you does not net him your souls... and he values souls over flesh.
I have a question, but I'm not sure if our characters would know the answer. Since the deal-makers are under the agreement, if they die (without a renegotiation of the agreement) are their souls automatically Black's? Or does he have to kill them to get them?
I think you've heard enough from Black to form this opinion... If he kills them, he gets their souls. If they die, he gets their souls. Or he can bring them alive to the Abyss and then he gets to treat both their bodies and their souls to the pleasures of pandemonium.
Cool. Tha'ts what I assumed, but I guess it's always good to verify my assumptions.
Indeed. :)
Everyone else. Feel free to jump in if you think i'm going too far with Jak. I'd hate to get us all killed when one of you guys may have had a better idea.
Jak, the discussion was good! My concern is that I hate the idea of the demon leaving with two souls. Making a deal with him was so unwise and now I don't know how to save them. Sacrificing our own souls does not sound wise in any way.
Hi Folks, I am off to Total Confusion tonight and will not be home until Monday night. My posting will be light to none, but it is all in the name of PFS as I will be GMing four sessions! Have a great weekend.
Enjoy!
So in one campaign I played IRL, a good friend of mine had a great moment where he did something monumentally stupid. We were a bunch of low levels and traveling through a forest, where a very large, very old green dragon demanded a toll from us. The kind of encounter where the DM says it's well beyond you. So we all have to give up one magical item, even a potion will do, to satisfy this dragon. It comes down to my friend's turn to pay, and he gives him his toll. I don't remember the exact wording but it was something vulgar followed by slapping the dragon (to little effect of course). His character was summarily eaten, the rest of us paid the toll, and we continued on meeting his new character further ahead.
I tell this story because this is where I'm at now. I started typing up a post and realized as I was going that at best we would probably have a very nasty recurring villain, at worst a TPK. A decent middle ground would be me dead. Since this could be REALLY bad, I'd figure I'd run it by you guys first.
My thought is to either bomb the scroll in his hand right now (which we don't know what that would do, or if it would even burn in the first place) or try to sleight of hand it (which it might be too late when he stows it, and we don't know where he called it from so this might not even be an option).
Not gonna lie, right now I think either of those things might be akin to slapping the dragon and just a stupid idea, so inclined to not do either. But figured I'd at least put it on the table for the rest of the party to consider.
Yeah, this dude could easily kill us if he was roused to even care enough to fight us. Depending on whatever happens from that Will Save, I'm actually thinking of approaching the dealmakers and asking if they want me to kill them. I can get 'em with one swing of the axe and it'll likely be less painful than whatever Black would do (though it will promptly send their souls to him to be tortured, so I guess it's moot).
It's tough to have to just sit here and take it, but even if we hadn't seen parts of his stats, I think I'd still not want to fight him. Marcus is genuinely terrified of this guy.
I had a post ready to go but I'll hold off publishing until you guys sort out what you want to do since it could affect things.
If you have any questions for me about my DMing style or methods, that may affect your plans, feel free to ask.
Depending on whatever happens from that Will Save, I'm actually thinking of approaching the dealmakers and asking if they want me to kill them.
Failed saves will not in any way affect your choice of actions or your rolls.
Zeke, here is in my opinion the BEST case scenario that would happen if we attacked Black.
Lyrica wins initiative. Lyrica smites Black and cuts thru his DR. Crit hit! Does max damage! He is pretty hurt!
Then any other heroes who beat his init are irrelevant cause we cant punch thru his DR / Resistances/ Immunities.
Then he plane shifts Lyrica to a plane without air. Then he comes back and wipes us out. Lol.
Good enough for me not to do anything about it at this point. My thought was maybe getting the contract might get some hold on him that we could bargain with, but not seeing it happen. Probably because I just watched Ghost Rider again recently. Must remember not to take tactics ideas from movies. Or Nick Cage.
Since it sounds like you guys have decided not to go after the Demon, I'll say this... If Black was very kind, Lyrica would be shipped to a poison-fumed plane in the Abyss that killed her quickly. There are far worse things than dying quickly and you can bet Black would be in a foul mood.
Yah, much as I think it would be fun to try to screw him in some small way by stealing the scroll or something, we really need to be smart about what we're willing to try... for all the reasons given.
Honeslty, it's still tempting to me, but not because Jak considers it a good idea. Mostly because i'm curious to see what kind of annoyance we can cause our boy Black.
That was a very cool scene, SR. Marcus' resolve has been tested sorely, but he'll press on when he thinks about the prophecy again and realizes he might be able to free one of the imprisoned folk from the standing stones.
Agreed. A part of me still wanted to turn it into a fight, but I don't think Jak would have wanted to bite off that much.
Yeah, that was pretty effing awesome. Frustrating to be a "hero" and have to stomach it, but the way the prophecy was worded I was kind of expecting s*&% to go down that way. :/
Thanks.
The prophecy was designed to point you in the right (and safest) direction but you, as always, are free to make your own decisions. You aren't tied to the prophecy and I try to leave them open enough to fit whatever choices you make. So the 'bitter harvest reaped' could have been a TPK or most of the townsfolk getting butchered or something else.
If it makes you feel better, while not fighting was a tough choice... I think it was your wisest option, by far. The results of a fight could have been disastrous.
As a DM, I try to balance fun with realism. To that end, I don't always use the best monster tactics - sometimes they divide attacks instead of focusing fire, etc. - because watching one of my player's characters get taken out in round 1 of a big battle is not fun (for the player or me), and isn't particularly heroic-y.
However, I have an exception or two to that rule. After long years of seeing high level characters (from the 'old days' of D&D) b&*#+-slap deities, kick dragons in the balls, and bend Demons over... I've really grown to dislike how many DMs will nerf the big bad guys either because they don't know how to play the monster well or to give the players a 'Win'. It is just too Disneyland. To me, the 'iconics' in this game - Deities, Dragons, Demons, Devils, Liches, etc. - should inspire a gut-level fear in the characters and give even the players pause. To that end, I always play the iconics to the hilt and up to their level of intelligence. I play them like they are a PC... so battles tend to be brutal and bloody with no mercy in sight. When you beat an 'iconic' in my game, you've earned the win. The downside of that, of course, is that when you overstep yourself... you will get your ass handed to you in no uncertain terms. Black being a smart, CE, Demon with a temper and a taste for viciousness... would have put a serious dent in the futures of a few characters. And since he knew you were less concerned about yourselves than the townsfolk, had you attacked him, his first order of business would have been to set the Scarecrow to butchering the townsfolk. He probably would have D-Doored out to get a piece of that action as well, knowing you'd all race back to town once the screaming started, which would have divided your forces (ah those pesky speed differences based on armor) and allowed him to deal with you in smaller groups. It may not have ended in a TPK but your team and the town would have gotten mauled.
Stormy, nice job on an epic scene! You definitely had a bad ass villain there! I'm just grateful I did not force a TPK. Well, here is Lyrica's update. Let me know if you have trouble or concerns with anything.
Lyrica - Level 3 Paladin
Hp: 38 (3HD: 10+10 ++ 3 Con + 3 Toughness +3 Favored Class)
Feat: Extra Lay on Hands
Mercy: Shaken
Skills: 21 Ranks Total
+1* Acrobatics (Dex +1)
+2 Appraise (Int +2),
+4 Bluff (Cha +4)
+3* Climb (Str +3)
+12 Diplomacy (Cha +4, Ranks 3 , Class +3, Trait +2)
+4 Disguise (Cha +4)
+4 Handle Animal (Cha +4)
+7 Heal (Wis +3, Ranks 1 Class Skill +3)
+4 Intimidate (Cha +4)
+4 Knowledge, History (Int +2, Ranks 1, Trait +1)
+6 Knowledge, Nobility (Int +2, Ranks 1, Class Skill +3)
+8 Knowledge, Planes (Int +2, Ranks 2, Class Skill +3, Trait +1)
+8 Knowledge, Religion (Int +2, Ranks 3, Class Skill +3)
+3 Linguistics (Int +2, Ranks 1)
+6 Perception (Wis +3, Ranks 3)
+9 Perform, Dancing (Cha +4, Ranks 1. Class Skill +3, +1 Trait)
+7 Profession, Farming (Wis +3, Ranks 1, Class Skill +3)
+5* Ride (Dex +1, Ranks 1, Class Skill +3)
+8 Sense Motive (Wis +3, Ranks 2, Class Skill +3)
+6 Spellcraft (Int +2, Ranks 1, Class Skill +3)
+1* Stealth (Dex +1)
+3 Survival (Wis +3)
+3* Swim (Str +3)
HP (rolled a few posts up), new total: 27
+1 Fort saves
+1 BAB (improves CMB/CMD)
class features: 2 additional performance rounds/day; Inspire Competence +2 (woohoo)
Spells: added Mage Hand (cantrip) and Touch of Gracelessness (1st), and got 1 additional 1st level spell per day
feat: Power Attack
Skills: 12 new ranks; into Acro, Bluff, Diplo, Intimidate, Know: Arcana, Know: Dungeon, Know: local, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, and Swim
Hmm, looking at my sheet (which needs to be updated with my attack numbers, for example) I have too many skills. I have heart of the wilderness so I should only get 6+2 skill points per level. I should have 16 at level 2 but I have 20. So I'll just add 4 skill points this level instead of 8 and it should be correct. Sorry about that. I'll also take Weapon Focus (Lumberjack Axe).
All classes gain 2 extra skill points at each level
That explains the discrepancy.
Sorry for absence. I'll try to level up tonight and get post in.
Good to hear from ya!
Just finished leveling Aerik. Level 2 spells, what up???
+11 hp (4 rolled + 4 hit die + 3 con)
+1 BA (and thus to CMB/CMD/attacks)
+1 BR
+1 to AC from shield becoming +1
+1 rd / day freedom of movement
+1 min / day totem transformation
Feat: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
9 skill ranks (4 class + 2 house rule + 2 int + 1 favored class)
1 rank: handle animal (now +6)
2 ranks: sense motive (now +10)
1 rank: k. dungeoneering (now +8)
1 rank: k. geography (now +8)
1 rank: perception (now +9)
1 rank: spellcraft (now +8)
1 rank: stealth (now +10)
1 rank: survival (now +12)
+3 2nd level spells
My turn is incoming
LEVEL UP Up up!!
HP - 18 -> 27
Base Attack Bonus - 1 -> 2
Base Will Save - 0 -> 1
Abilities
Swfit Alchemy
1st level extracts - 2+1 -> 3+1
New Extract - Comprehend Languages
Level Up
HP: 25 -> 36 (includes favored class)
+1 BAB
+1 WS
Favored Terrain: Forest
Endurance
Weapon Focus (Lumberjack Axe)
10 skill points
Hmm, SR, can I change my feat to Diehard? I want to stick with my original plan, even though I found out in the Arena game with Eben that one point of nonlethal knocks you out :-)
WHICH IS A LAME AND STUPID LOOPHOLE IN THE RULES, IF YOU ASK ME!
... but I guess that's just my opinion.
You mean change Weapon Focus to Diehard? Yes.
So somehow Diehard doesn't prevent you from getting sucker-punched by non-lethal? So you can fight on into negatives while someone is trying to kill you, but if they use the flat of the same blade, you go lights out? Sorry, that is stupid. I won't be using that rule.
I knew I could count on you for common sense, SR. I think its a wording issue, anyway.
Sorry about missing last round btw.
No apologies necessary. You've got 'stuff' going on.
Geez McCrow! Did everyone else just see Marcus Sparta-kick the big bad wolfie into oblivion?
THIS. IS. MAAAARRRRRCUUUUUUSSSSS!
The really sobering bit is that had the Wolf been at full HPs that blow would STILL have knocked it to 0. :D
In honor of Marcus...
Ha, awesome. That brings me back...