Shattered Star

Game Master Zesdead

wow- i'm up to 5 rolls and so far 2,4,5,7, and a high of 13... sorry guys, I swear Teldon will generally be better than this :(

my d6 roll beat 3 out of the 5 d20 roll

Don't feel too bad, my husband fumbled about 5 or 6 times in our RL game on Sunday; he was not happy.

On another note, I'm working today through Friday so posting from me might be limited and a bit less descriptive; I'll check in via phone though to see what's happening.

this might just be because wednesdays are the craziest day of the week for me, but i'm having a little trouble visualizing the box (and it seems like Jo, at least, is as well)...

is this correct:
- all 6 sides each have all 7 sigils on them
- each of the 7 sigils has smaller runes under them- some in gold and some in onyx
- the smaller runes under each sigil are the same on every side
- on one side there is a string of 50 runes underneath 3 (or 4?) empty slots into which any of the 7 sigils can be maneuvered

are all of those statements true? and, are there any others that we know to be true that i'm missing? (other than connections we've discovered/guessed)

Honestly, you have a far clearer a visualization of this thing than I do!

Yea, I was completely lost haha.

In case anyone wanted to know my concept of what Ziomarra looks like, I came up with her character concept looking at the painting on page 3 of the Harrow Handbook.

The artist is Fernanda Suarez, and here's a link to the painting on Deviant Art.

That actually looks pretty close to your character image. Nice!

Teldon - that is a completely accurate description...except the sigils are not movable...it is the runes that need to go into the empty slots...

Apologies if the puzzle is a little 'over-wrought'...I have tried to do something a little different (yet still Thassilonian / Runelords-ish) for the puzzle...the original, as written, puzzle in the book is, quite frankly, rubbish...

...anyway, you've just got a fun riddle to mull over now...

if anyone else wants to blurt out a guess before Teldon finishes talking, please feel free- if you get it right he'll be pleased you were able to follow his thinking and mildly impressed that you figured out the final piece on your own ;)

Let's wait until everyone has at least seen it. But I think I know.

(Trying to decide whether Nalathi would know this or not...)

What we could do is, I give my guess and we pretend Ziomarra came up with it lol.

What we could do is, I give my guess and we pretend Ziomarra came up with it lol.

Nah. No need.

I am absolutely abysmal when it come to new "What am I?" riddles.

That's always frustrated me. I feel they're something I should be great at. I love wordplay puzzles, logic puzzles, crosswords (both standard and cryptic), and anagrams. I'm reasonably well-read, and usually get literary references. I'm a killer at Scrabble. And I aways react with an "OHHH! Why didn't I see that?!" when "What am I?" riddles are explained to me after I give up.

When I was younger, this frustrated me so much that I went on a binge to find as many as I could so I could memorize the riddle and the answer. People think I'm good at them, but I'm not-- I just have decent recall for riddiles I've seen before. New riddles that I've never encountered before? I never get them. Ever. I'm also pretty lousy at making up my own.

(Why, yes, this is indeed a sore spot!)

In an RPG, puzzles are tough: Solving them tends to rely on player knowledge. This can really break verisimillitude for immersive role-players. It can also be unnerving if the character has relevant skills or background that the player lacks.

A game designer can abstract it by relying on skill checks, but that can be unsatisfying. Folklore and genre fiction are riddled with riddles, and they have a long history in the game. Blending the two can be very tricky.

That said: Zed, I think you're doing a great job with this puzzle-- a combination of skill checks to grant clues and solving the riddle the old-fashioned way is an excellent compromise!

I know the feeling. My word-puzzle Achilles heel is anagrams. Four or five letters I can do, usually, but more than that and I have trouble seeing it. I love all the others, and I'm even a fairly good Boggle player (which is, arguably, a similar skill). But for some reason, simple word scrambles get me.

Riddles are a killer...and that feeling, once you know the answer and can see how it all connects up, makes you feel like such a dolt!!!

Thanks for appreciating and going along with the puzzle...it's been as much fun reading your characters respond to it, as it was to come up with the challenge...

Here, here!

i LOVED that riddle- did you write just for the play on 'mine'?

Thanks...I came across the riddle when I was researching wordplay puzzles that could be attributed to one of the seven sins...the fact that the answer fitted so well on a locking mechanism for something that may contain someone's possessions was an added bonus...

I feel your pain Zio, I've never been very good with riddles and it -is- a little awkward sometimes to play a character that is theoretically smarter than your RL self.

But I did enjoy it just the same, well done :)

All, I have posted for Teldon moving the runes into place...well done and thanks to all for getting to the answer...as the answer is correct, I thought we'd just move it along to the next fun little bit :)

Since no specific checks were called for in figuring out the box, I decided to apply the penalty for Briana's drawback to the next Knowledge check attempted and go from there; just in case anyone was confused :)

Ziomarra - no problem....

In fact, if any of you feel that a bit of polishing or tweaking is required for your character, please go ahead at this early stage...just let me know if / what you change...

I'll keep that in mind GM Zed; I just might review the shaman spirits one more time and see if there's one that I might want to switch to since we're still in the intro phase of the game :)

All - I will be travelling today so won't post until quite a bit later in the day....

My posting rate the past few days has been much higher than usual. It's been abnormally slow at work, but I expect that to change Monday, when I start a new project.

I won't always be able to post as much i have either... I think that in recruitment we all agreed to at least 1/day right? As long as we stick with that we should be ok.

also, am I wrong or is that pugwampi going to stand staring for 2d4 rounds and then (potentially) look for a present in the box (if its attitude is favorable enough at +2)? or maybe that belongs in gameplay?

Briana, did you model your character after Kasukabe from Problem Children?

Actually no, I had to look up Problem Children to see who Kasukabe even is! But that's funny, because of the alternate shaman spirits I was looking at, nature seemed one of the more fitting ones for her character :)

I will confess to a personal real life fondness of cats, so I tend to opt towards feline familiars/ACs/etc but I try not to be disruptive or weird about it.

also, am I wrong or is that pugwampi going to stand staring for 2d4 rounds and then (potentially) look for a present in the box (if its attitude is favorable enough at +2)? or maybe that belongs in gameplay?

I'm pretty sure that hypnotized creatures will comply with reasonable requests during the duration of the spell, depending on thier attitude. (c.f. spell description.) The spell increases the attitude of those affected by two steps with regard to the request.

If we want to play it out according to a strict interpretation of the game rules...

The gremlin starts with an attitude of Hostile. Moving it up two steps makes it Indifferent to the request.

Ziomarra would have to make a Bluff check to convince the gremlin that she really does have a present for him in the paradox box. The GM would have to determine whether that lie is believable or not, and whether the gremlin would want to believe the lie. (If I were the GM, and a player tried this, I'd probably say that it was believable and that a gremlin would want to believe that he was getting a present, for a +5 on the Bluff check.)

So, Ziomarra would need to make a Bluff check, possibly with some kind of circumstance modifier.

Taking the liberty to look up a pugwumpi's stats, the DC of that Bluff check would be 12. And, with the aura of unluck, she'd have to roll twice and take the worse result.

Of course, I'm hoping that the GM will hand-wave it and just say that the ruse works! ;-)

Teldon: one other thing...
I looked up your character's stats because I was curious how many languages he speaks. I noticed that you listed "Chelaxian" as a language. In Goalrion canon, the Chelish national language is Taldane (a.k.a. Common), not a separate language.

Nalathi Estrid wrote:

Briana, did you model your character after Kasukabe from Problem Children?

Actually no, I had to look up Problem Children to see who Kasukabe even is! But that's funny, because of the alternate shaman spirits I was looking at, nature seemed one of the more fitting ones for her character :)

Sorry, that reference is kind of lost on me. While I watched Speed Racer and Star Blazers when I was a kid, I'm not that much of an anime/manga fan.

(BTW, I tried to watch both of those shows with my kid a few years ago, and found to my dismay that they did NOT hold up well over the years!)

Actually no, I had to look up Problem Children to see who Kasukabe even is!

That's fine, I was just curious. I started watching that show yesterday, and Kasukabe immediately reminded me of your character :-)

Ok I've changed my character a little. After getting to know her a bit better, I've realized that deliberate deception (arguably the central theme of the Master Spy prestige class) isn't really her thing.

So here are my "patch notes":
-Feat changed to Skill Focus (Sleight of Hand)
-Class archetype changed from Daring Infiltrator to Mouser
-Added Silent Hunter trait and Unlearned drawback

...the rule of cool wins every time over DC's and dice rolling...I love the idea of putting the gremlin back in the box...seems the slightly more humane option somehow....

Teldon: one other thing...

I looked up your character's stats because I was curious how many languages he speaks. I noticed that you listed "Chelaxian" as a language. In Goalrion canon, the Chelish national language is Taldane (a.k.a. Common), not a separate language.

thanks for that. i remember seeing a reference somewhere to a Chelaxian language that only the highly educated knew but i just did a quick search and saw a comment from James Jacobs that any mentions of a separate Chelaxian language are an error. i'm changing that to... i don't know... infernal is the closest thing to a 'High-Chelish' but frankly he's not all that connected to Cheliax... any suggestions?

also, i wasn't getting at the skill rolls and attitude categories of your plan but at the fact that targets "stop and stare blankly" for the duration... which would have allowed me to remove the valuables from inside before re-trapping the creature... if i put the lid back on now all we've done is delay combat (and left our potential employers treasure locked in with a gremlin)... but, as always, the only rule that trumps 'rule of cool' is "what the GM says goes."

I've gone with the view that Ziomarra, in the heat of what just happened...and how quickly it all went wild, she's not really consulting with everyone on a 'strategic' basis!!!! It's certainly the way I read it anyway....

Plus...it does give you a little bit of a problem....

Umm, what is Kelish supposed to be? The language used in Qadira (Keleshite) or the language of the Kellids (which is actually Hallit?)

As for suggestions, why not Vudran (or whatever it is that Vudrans speak?)

yeah, my concern wasn't at all that she didn't ask or think tactically... my original question was just because my understanding of the spell was different than the way its functioning (i've always seen it used in the past that you make the suggestion while the creature is stopped and after it regains the ability to move, when the spell ends, it continues to view the suggested action as more favorable and, hopefully, does it then).

its your game so by all means run it however you see fit, i was just looking for a little clarification to figure out how i was going to respond.

@Jo- in ISWG the language of the Keleshites is listed as "Kelish"

Teldon - I think you are correct in your reading actually...the gremlin is fascinated (and not acting) for a certain number of rounds...and then, when it is no longer fascinated...it'll respond to the request (with necessary checks, etc).... It's important that we agree on that 'ruling' for future combats as I am sure it is something that Ziomarra will utilise often...Ziomarra - does that sound right to you?

But...you'll have to excuse me poetic licence this time around...

For what it's worth, notice that the spell can be dismissed ahead of time. If Ziomarra dismisses it so that the little guy can follow her instructions, that would be well within the effects of the spell.

@Teldon: Sorry about that. I must be going nuttier than usual.

On another note, It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. I think we are all in the blast radius of that bomb you just throw.

...that's alright...I'm not going to have anyone splash damaged by Teldon's bombs...hardly the best way to ingratiate yourself to your new colleagues!!! Doesn't mean his bomb miss isn't entirely without repercussions though!!!

Don't forget Briana put a nice dent in the desk/table, too...

We're the Property Value Adjustment Bureau :D

....yeah, so far you're up to....

• Papers all over the floor...and promptly urinated on....
  
• A dented / cracked table...
  
• Books and Manuscripts thrown from the Bookcase...
  
• ...and Teldon's bomb damage!!!

...nice work!!!

Umm, what is Kelish supposed to be? The language used in Qadira (Keleshite) or the language of the Kellids (which is actually Hallit?)

As for suggestions, why not Vudran (or whatever it is that Vudrans speak?)

From the Inner Sea World Guide

Taldane (Common): The language of Imperial Taldor, which at one time encompassed most of the Inner Sea region. It remains the language of all modern states that once were part of Imperial Taldor (including Taldor, Cheliax, Andoran, Molthune, Nirmathas, Galt, Nidal, Isger, Lastwal, and Druma. On the boards, that's English.

Hallit: The language of the Kellid people. Spoken in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords, wild areas of Numeria, Sarkoris (now the Worldwound), and parts of Irrisen and Brevoy. On the boards, I use Mongolian.

Kelish: The language of the Padishah Empire of Kelish, of which the westernmost province is Qadira. I use Persian.

Osiriani: The language of northern and western Garund, it's effectively the Common of Rahadoum, Thuvia, Osirion, Katapesh, Nex, and Geb. I use Arabic.

Polyglot: A pidgin of many languages throughout the Mwangi Expanse. I use Swahili

Shoanti: Spoken by the Shoanti people, who mostly live in northern Varisia and parts of Irrisen, the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, the Realm of the Mammoth Lords, and the Hold of Belkzen. I would like to use Cherokee for Shoanti on the boards, but Google Translate doesn't yet have any Native American language. Consequently, I use Maori instead.

Skald: Spoken by the Ulfen people of the Lands of the Linnorm Kings and Irrisen. I use Danish

Varisian: The language of the nomadic Varisian people. The only places it's widely spoken are Varisia and Ustalav. I use Romanian

Vudrani: The language of distant Vudra, the only place it's heard widely in the Inner Sea Region is on the Isle of Jandelay. I use Hindi.

I'm not going to have anyone splash damaged by Teldon's bombs...

thank you! without a map its hard to figure out if/when they're safe to use, and i didn't want to bog things down with a bunch of questions about positioning... i was hoping based on the size of table (in the linked heidmarch manor illustration), and the fact that Jo praobably had to move to get the one on the bookshelf, that there was a safe(ish) place i could toss it...

Cool list.

@ da GM: can we get a list of languages you'd like us to use for different languages?

Also, don't forget Joanna's urinated on boots! I'm sure that's going to be a mess if she goes anywhere. ;)

...Ziomarra's list of languages looks great...i find it really adds to the atmosphere (but is impossible to do in RL....at least for most people!)

How do you get that to work from a mechanics sense with the forum software?

Teldon - I think you are correct in your reading actually...the gremlin is fascinated (and not acting) for a certain number of rounds...and then, when it is no longer fascinated...it'll respond to the request (with necessary checks, etc).... It's important that we agree on that 'ruling' for future combats as I am sure it is something that Ziomarra will utilise often...Ziomarra - does that sound right to you?

But...you'll have to excuse me poetic licence this time around...

The spell description is a bit vague, and, honestly, this is the first time I've ever been in a game where someone used hypnotism. I was going on how real-world hypnosis works: people comply with requests while they're in the hypnotic state, as well as to a post-hypnotic trigger.

That said, I totally see your interpretation. As long as we're all on the same page on how it works, I'm fine with it.

...Ziomarra's list of languages looks great...i find it really adds to the atmosphere (but is impossible to do in RL....at least for most people!)

Just copy it out of Google Translate and paste it in the box for the forum post.

مجرد نسخه من الترجمة من Google ولصقه في مربع لمنصب المنتدى.

Easy as pie!