Oro-Tu swings at the zombie between him and the creature attacking Ivar with his fist.
After knocking the zombie aside he attacks the thing on Ivar viciously.
Not seeing any room to help, Uraisa lands at the back of the party and casts Barkskin on herself.
She looks around to be sure no enemy is coming from up top, behind the group.
Perception
Silas embues his rapier once again with arcane energy and strikes at the one in the corner at the bottom of the stairs.
If that takes it out he will move to the spot in front of Oro-tu seeking to use AOO on the creature. If not then another load of attacks on the one in the corner to free up some space.
One zombie moves up 5' and attacks Aurora:
another three move up to attack Oro-Tu
The creature coups Ivar
Make a fort save Ivar DC10+ damage dealt
Uraisa will delay to see if the party back out of the tight quarters, or if the situation opens up any.
Oro-Tu frantically tries to free Ivar hoping that he is still alive. He kicks aside the zombie in front of him and once again swings at the monstrosity.
seeing ivars fate, Aurora knows what she has to do and its none to pretty a action, getting Ivar back from this is next to impossible, I am grieved to give him mercy, I love you my sweet, she thinks, as she puts him down
Oro-Tu shoves zombies away as he yells out for an answer as to what is going on.
Silas sees Ivar fall and rise again, then fall again. But he has no time to react as the other undead still shamble towards the rest of the party. His blade singing with power again he steps forward and attacks.
Leialoha continues to delay, hoping the melee will soon be over or that his allies will draw the foes back to make them easier to strike with his spells.
Uraisa also delays, waiting for an opening to help with her spell casting.
Silas empowers the rapier again and strikes at the two remaining zombies.
Oro-Tu groans at Ivar's corpse. "How was that creature made from the lighthouse keeper?" he asks.
Help me strip down ivars clothes and gear, all of it, take his body and prepare it for a funeral pyre. I only need parts of him to call him back whole. his spiritual body will provide the other pieces after the cremation. He will be reborn without the taint. I will need the power pieces of his body for the purification and resurrection rituals.
thinking I dont have room in my haversack for his entire body, will stip him and the burn the body, keeping head and hands in salt pack. Probably should keep the heart and gonads too.
Uraisa helped the others prepare Ivar for the cleansing flames. She knew there was nothing she could do for him at this time, but perhaps Aurora had more powerful magic she could call upon.
Leialoha shakes his head sadly. "It will take powerful magic to bring him back. Perhaps a quest of its own. Such powerful priests are rare in the Razor."
That's where things get weird; the DC's are erratic, and when I actually spreadsheet the probabilities of succeeding on a ritual they do not match up with expectations at all. The baseline ritual has a DC of 28 + spell level - backlash. This gives a range of DC 30-35 for standard level 4-9 rituals with an average backlash. This is actually a fairly narrow range, which immediately raised alarm bells for me. While those DC's may seem high, hitting them isn't nearly as hard as it looks (particularly if you allow for +5 competence bonus items and the skill focus feat, which are easily slapped onto the NPC cults this system screams to be used with).
Supposing the ritual casters can hit +24 skill checks this gives the following chances of completing these progressively "more difficult" rituals:
Level 4 ritual – 73% chance (DC 30; 3 successes / 4 attempts)
Level 5 ritual – 83% chance (DC 31; 3 successes / 5 attempts)
Level 6 ritual – 64% chance (DC 32; 4 successes / 6 attempts)
Level 7 ritual – 71% chance (DC 33; 4 successes / 7 attempts)
Level 8 ritual – 48% chance (DC 34; 5 successes / 8 attempts)
Level 9 ritual – 50% chance (DC 35; 5 successes / 9 attempts)
This is a very problematic distribution. The chance of success simply doesn't match expectations based on the vast gulf in power between these various spell levels. It also means that any cult (or party, for that matter) that is struggling to complete level 4 rituals is only a few skill points away from being able to reliably complete level 9 rituals. I'm kinda disappointed; I love the flavor and intent of the system, but the numbers just don't seem to work and mandate GM fiat for pretty much every ritual.
What are people's thoughts on this? Any good ideas on how to get it to work sensibly out of the box?
Paizo Employee Mark Seifter Designer Sep 20, 2015, 05:32 pm | FLAG | LIST
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Personally, I've used these in home games, and what I do is that I'm less tolerant with failures than the listed tolerance for failures in the book. Basically, I run it that every failure has consequences in some little way, cumulative per failure, and then the whole thing fails eventually. Since that requires a lot of thought for each ritual (to determine what failing each check might do), another good solution is to allow only 1 failure, regardless of level (level 4 stays the same and everything else gets harder, and you don't have the weirdness of level 5 being easier than level 4).
Last session my PCs did a ritual, and they managed to get maxed out successes, but they were sweating a bit because they decided to risk making one of the checks with an uncertain chance of success, rather than let a ghost possess the monk's body and give them a certain success.
Mahtobedis Sep 20, 2015, 06:02 pm | FLAG | LIST
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Hommelstaub
As the monk player in question, that ghost is freaken scary.
I really liked the very real threat of failure when we did the ritual. It made our party really weigh the pros and cons of the needed ritual.
Dasrak Sep 20, 2015, 06:37 pm | FLAG | LIST
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Storm Hag
Rejigging my spreadsheet to allow for no more than 1 failure for a successful ritual, the chances of success for that +24 skill check I described above change as follows:
level 4 - 73% (unchanged)
level 5 - 53%
level 6 - 32%
level 7 - 16%
level 8 - 6%
level 9 - 2%
That looks much better. It does result in a very steep curve for high level rituals (when you need to succeed 7/8 skill attempts, you need to be very close to the DC, so there's only a razor thin margin between a number that's high enough to attempt the ritual and a number that's high enough to take 1), but that's much preferable to the erratic numbers being produced by RAW.
Paizo Employee Mark Seifter Designer Sep 20, 2015, 11:01 pm | FLAG | LIST
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Dasrak wrote:
Rejigging my spreadsheet to allow for no more than 1 failure for a successful ritual, the chances of success for that +24 skill check I described above change as follows:
level 4 - 73% (unchanged)
level 5 - 53%
level 6 - 32%
level 7 - 16%
level 8 - 6%
level 9 - 2%
That looks much better. It does result in a very steep curve for high level rituals (when you need to succeed 7/8 skill attempts, you need to be very close to the DC, so there's only a razor thin margin between a number that's high enough to attempt the ritual and a number that's high enough to take 1), but that's much preferable to the erratic numbers being produced by RAW.
Yup, I was getting numbers like that as well, and I think they can work for you. Overall, it was deemed by the PDT to be too hard for the standard version, and there wasn't space for a sidebar or anything. I definitely recommend it for a stronger risk with rituals, especially when there's not enough time and effort available to create complex gradations of failure.
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stop the purification process, leave him whole, In communion with God, I have been reminded that we have the collective power to Resurrect him here, just because I don't possess the power alone, I was taught ancient Rights and rituals that operate as circle magic, together we can combine our power as one and bring him back. It is dangerous and requires everyone's freewill participation, I will except the consequences of the ritual though.[
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2syan?Occult-Rituals
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-rules/occult-rituals
Scarlet Vigil
Source PCS:OR
School necromancy; Level 7
Casting Time 7 hours
Components V, S, M (a giant mantis claw), SC (at least 2, up to 4)
Skill Checks Heal DC 30, 2 successes; Knowledge (religion) DC 30, 3 successes; Perception DC 30, 2 successes
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./character level of the primary caster)
Target one corpse and secondary casters; see text
Duration instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Backlash All secondary casters take 2d6 points of damage.
Failure The primary caster is stunned for 1d6 rounds (no save). The targeted corpse is immediately revived, as if via the spell resurrection.
EFFECT
This ritual serves as an advanced initiation rite for the novices who are deemed worthy to participate. The neophytes who partake in this vigil are tasked with ensuring that the target never returns to life—a holy mission that takes priority above all other assignments. By participating in this ritual, these novices also get a glimpse into the resurrection sense ability that they will learn should they continue to survive and advance in their training.
This ritual requires the intact corpse of a target slain by the primary caster, who must possess at least 5 levels in the crimson assassin prestige class. Each of the secondary casters must possess exactly 1 level in the crimson assassin prestige class. During the ritual, the primary caster reveals meticulous details about the victim's demise to the secondary casters, describing in anatomical detail the damage done to the individual and pointing out visual cues on the corpse, all while connecting the methods of execution to the teachings of the mantis god, patron of the crimson assassin order. During the ritual, the secondary casters must use a giant mantis claw to draw blood from themselves in a place where the corpse was damaged; in the case of poisons and similar effects, the location can be symbolic.
If the corpse took damage in many different locations, the secondary casters must draw blood from themselves in the place where the victim sustained the most damage.
If the ritual is successful, the secondary casters gain an intrinsic link to the deceased individual; from that moment on, the secondary casters know if the assassinated creature is returned to life, as per the crimson assassin resurrection sense class ability. An assassinated body used in a failed scarlet vigil occult ritual cannot subsequently be used in another such ritual. Since failing to correctly perform this ritual unravels the primary caster's assassination and puts all casters at risk, high-level members choose their secondary casters carefully, sometimes watching them for months to determine whether they are worthy of participating, as well as seeking guidance from senior leadership concerning which novices are the best choices.
I think I can use a version of this based on toth
We would all be binding our life to his, and shedding blood to bring him back, there may be permanent consequences for all who participate in the ritual until higher level restorative magics can be found, but it will revive him. I believe each person would take each a permanent negative level
"So we will take his body back and preserve it for a later quest to bring Ivar back? Are we return to the surface and see if we can find the sharks?"