Old School Greyhawk II - Baltron’s Beacon (I7) PFRPG (570CY - Southern Keoland) (Inactive)

Game Master ALLENDM

Hnnnngh I've never gotten to play Baltron's Beacon and I really love Greyhawk but there are so many house rules I can't keep track

They're not that complex...simply compiled so you can get to them easily.

The big ones are the addition of O level spells bonus. Wound Threshold, Poison damage (poison is more dangerous), fighter variant, tweaks to a few of the classes (core classes mostly), DR for shields, and a reduction in Feat taxes. Those are major ones off the top of my head. There are others...if you check out the Saltmarsh Campaign you can see how I DM...

Cerilis Silvertree wrote:

[dice=Hit Points 3rd]1d10

[dice=Hit Points 4th]1d10
[dice=Hit Points 5th]1d10
[dice=Hit Points 6th]1d10
[dice=Hit Points 5th Reroll]1d10

Jovich,

So total HP is 6d10 = 44hp without any additional bonuses from CON, Favored bonus, or feats?

SD

That is correct. Still need to do a few adjustments but I am getting there.

They're not that complex...simply compiled so you can get to them easily.

Your perspective might not be clean on this . . ..

The combination of rules variants and tweaks is pretty broad, and forced me to ask questions abut character creation where I am not used to asking any. And that's just the rules change,s not the campaign setting changes that those unfamiliar with Greyhawk also need to digest.

What you built up over time, expanding as your became comfortable with the existing rules, is a big wall of text for others to absorb. You might remember our initial confusion included referencing rules out of additional documents that you provided for setting information, not rules alterations. Knowing to ignore the rules alterations in some places makes the rules package smaller, but on first exposure, people don't know to do that.

Helping players new to the rules variant combination is going to need to be second nature in an open PbP environment. It just is.

From my perspective, the rules variants PLAY easier than they read, and there are a few things hidden in the combinations of the rules that can become important. As an example, the significance of having a well-trained healer and the alchemical healing salves was lost to me until we started recovering from our first fight. I don't know how many people will make that kind of connection without experience.

And, yes, Perri Purrun is trained in the non-class skill of Heal. Even as tight as I am on feats for his build, I still spent time trying to figure out how to take the Signature Skill Feat for the benefit of the Unchained Heal bonuses. I think those are huge with the anti-magic prejudice brought on by the plague. Didn't fit it in, but I looked pretty hard at it.

6th level Human Variant Fighter gets 9 Feat slots (1,3,5,F1,F2,F4,F6,Human,Variant Fighter Specified). With the Feat Tax rules in play, those 9 slots give me the benefit of 22 Pathfinder feats. 4 of the feats are actually single feats, too. That's huge.

Under the hammer here, will get to making my submission/character over the weekend.

ALLENDM wrote:

They're not that complex...simply compiled so you can get to them easily.

Your perspective might not be clean on this . . ..

The combination of rules variants and tweaks is pretty broad, and forced me to ask questions abut character creation where I am not used to asking any. And that's just the rules change,s not the campaign setting changes that those unfamiliar with Greyhawk also need to digest.

What you built up over time, expanding as your became comfortable with the existing rules, is a big wall of text for others to absorb. You might remember our initial confusion included referencing rules out of additional documents that you provided for setting information, not rules alterations. Knowing to ignore the rules alterations in some places makes the rules package smaller, but on first exposure, people don't know to do that.

Helping players new to the rules variant combination is going to need to be second nature in an open PbP environment. It just is.

From my perspective, the rules variants PLAY easier than they read, and there are a few things hidden in the combinations of the rules that can become important. As an example, the significance of having a well-trained healer and the alchemical healing salves was lost to me until we started recovering from our first fight. I don't know how many people will make that kind of connection without experience.

And, yes, Perri Purrun is trained in the non-class skill of Heal. Even as tight as I am on feats for his build, I still spent time trying to figure out how to take the Signature Skill Feat for the benefit of the Unchained Heal bonuses. I think those are huge with the anti-magic prejudice brought on by the plague. Didn't fit it in, but I looked pretty hard at it.

6th level Human Variant Fighter gets 9 Feat slots (1,3,5,F1,F2,F4,F6,Human,Variant Fighter Specified). With the Feat Tax rules in play, those 9 slots give me the benefit of 22 Pathfinder feats. 4 of the feats are actually single feats, too....

That is a very valid point.

What I can do is a synopsis of the rule changes/additions that I can add to the front end of the HR. I plan on using these for any games I run on here so that is not a problem on my end. I can even bounce them off you guys to see if they make sense.

The wound threshold/additional poison damage is one that I have experienced myself as a player. Having a few well-trained healers (Heal skill) and access to alchemical healing is a must have. Especially with the restrictions on magic at the higher levels.

The feat tax reduction is a big benefit but it just means the encounters can be more difficult in design.

I think I know the answer but I wanted to make sure.
Would you allow the feat Deadly Agility?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats/deadly-agility-combat/

would you allow the feat Piranha Strike to be used with any "Finesse" weapon?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/piranha-strike-combat/

Piranha Strike is for light weapons but I am also fine with 1H piercing or 1H slashing weapons being included in the list of Finesse weapons. (just bear in mind it cuts both ways - pun intended)

Deadly Agility---let me looks at this. To be honest I have not bothered to review the Path of War material and I need to read through the material. There are some interesting feats but I need to think about the consequence of adding it or anything else...I can imagine if I add this there will be additional requests to add feats from PoW.

I understand the need to be careful when letting certain feats in. With Piranha Strike I was looking at the Elven Curved Blade. It is included in the list of finesse weapons but not with Piranha Strike.

I am close to being finished. I need to touch up the background and equipment...I think...Once then I can change it over to your template.

What I've got so far for Perri . . .. Not even remotely your format, yet, but I want to put him out there.

Perri Purrun grew up on a barge, and knew little of the world a mile away from water. As he grew, he learned to take his place among the family's defenders. He was involved in several minor skirmishes, proving to himself that he knew how to contribute, and how to protect his uncles and brothers as they fought with him. Then the family stumbled into a hunting pack of owlbears. As his third uncle was rent in two, Perri broke and ran. They found another family and were taken in, right up until their story became known and understood. All three were banished from Rhenne life, not for running from a vastly superior foe, but for abandoning the children and non-combatant family members to the beasts.

Perri started taking odd jobs as a mercenary. He did some caravan guarding and some body guarding, wandering across most of the Flanesse. His first exposure to adventuring had been as a hired body guard for a wizard. He found the risks familiar, but the rewards better. He still takes whatever work comes up, that pays well enough, but looks for adventuring tasks.

I've played the low-damage-dealing battlefield control fighter before. The concept is to deny the opposition the opportunity to act. Never done this with a whip, and never with the fighter variant bonuses you've provided. I'm curious to see how well other fighters can stand against that combo, because basically nobody else should be able to.

3rd Level HP: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (7) + 2 = 9
4th Level HP: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (3) + 2 = 5
5th Level HP: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 2 = 8
6th Level HP: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 2 = 6

@ALLENDM: I may add a Favoured Bonus to one (or more) of those levels - not allocated them as yet.

Hoping to have Bynoth finished in terms of crunch by close of play today - will then touch base with Oceanshieldwolf to see if we can conjure up an unlikely duo's backstory :)

On a second note - I'm a huge fan of traits - is the Additional Traits Feat allowed (know you said characters we're limited to 2 traits) so just checking.

Cheers ahead o' time

3rd Level HP: 1d8+2

4th Level HP: 1d8+2
5th Level HP: 1d8+2
6th Level HP: 1d8+2

@ALLENDM: I may add a Favoured Bonus to one (or more) of those levels - not allocated them as yet.

Hoping to have Bynoth finished in terms of crunch by close of play today - will then touch base with Oceanshieldwolf to see if we can conjure up an unlikely duo's backstory :)

On a second note - I'm a huge fan of traits - is the Additional Traits Feat allowed (know you said characters we're limited to 2 traits) so just checking.

Cheers ahead o' time

Ok. Yes you can take the Additional Traits Feat.

Looks good.

SD

Quick one ALLENDM - the new Knowledge Skills - particularly thinking of Knowledge (Military) here - not too much of a stretch to presume this would be part of a Cleric of War Deity's teachings? (and ergo a class skill for Bynoth?)

Could find reference where new skills are applied to specific classes?

Cheers

BD

Almost there with the crunch of Bynoth - have reverted him back to a "vanilla" cleric (dropped the archetype) as wanted more flexibility with spells etc.

In addition to my Knowledge (Military) query above have a couple more questions for you ADM:

Domain Spells - Are these only ever cast spontaneously or are they added to a cleric's prayer book?

Orison's - Like Wizard's whose spell books contain all cantrips (bar oppositional schools)... Do Cleric prayer books contain all 0-level Orisons?

Cheers

BD

Being that we are outfitting our characters at level 6, is it possible that we have dwarven/elven masterwork weapons/armor? If so, how much do they cost? I don't see an amount in the house rules, unless I am just overlooking something.

Quick one ALLENDM - the new Knowledge Skills - particularly thinking of Knowledge (Military) here - not too much of a stretch to presume this would be part of a Cleric of War Deity's teachings? (and ergo a class skill for Bynoth?)

Could find reference where new skills are applied to specific classes?

Cheers

BD

Totally fine with you having Know (Military) as a class skill.

Almost there with the crunch of Bynoth - have reverted him back to a "vanilla" cleric (dropped the archetype) as wanted more flexibility with spells etc.

In addition to my Knowledge (Military) query above have a couple more questions for you ADM:

Domain Spells - Are these only ever cast spontaneously or are they added to a cleric's prayer book?

Orison's - Like Wizard's whose spell books contain all cantrips (bar oppositional schools)... Do Cleric prayer books contain all 0-level Orisons?

Cheers

BD

Domain spells are handled just like being able to cast Cure spells spontaneously. They are a part of a Cleric's prayer book if he doesn't have them he can't cast them spontaneously.

Yes, orisons are handled in the same manner as wizards.

Being that we are outfitting our characters at level 6, is it possible that we have dwarven/elven masterwork weapons/armor? If so, how much do they cost? I don't see an amount in the house rules, unless I am just overlooking something.

In regards to Masterwork items:

Yes it is very possible.

Elven/Dwarven Masterwork are +100gp in cost so 700gp for a Dwarven or Elven Masterwork weapon or armor.

SD

Stock MW weapons are +300. Stock MW armors/shields are +150.

+700 is a little more of an uptick than an additional +100.

Please note I'm not arguing against your set cost, I'm just noting that how you presented it will generate confusion.

What is the difference between Elven made and Dwarven made.

What is the difference between Elven made and Dwarven made.

Differences are outlined on the House Rules doc (page 49) - have copied them here for easy reference mate:

Master Work Armor

Master Work – armor check penalty reduced by 1
Dwarven Master Work – master work plus reduced by 10% (in addition) Presume this is Arcane Spell Failure or weight?
Elven Master Work – masterwork plus Arcane spell failure chance reduced by 5% (in addition)

Master Work Weapons
Master Work – weapon check +1 to attack
Dwarven Master Work – critical range increased by 1 (in addition)
Elven Master Work – weight reduced by 10% (in addition)

@ALLENDM: Bynoth is almost done, just finalising crunch and starting to build background and flavour.

Stock MW weapons are +300. Stock MW armors/shields are +150.

+700 is a little more of an uptick than an additional +100.

Please note I'm not arguing against your set cost, I'm just noting that how you presented it will generate confusion.

You are right. I had double weapon cost stuck in my head and didn’t bother to double check. It is 300gp + 100gp for Elven or Dwarven masterwork.

Thanks!

I cleaned this up in the House Rules.

Masterwork Armor

Masterwork – armor check penalty reduced by 1 (Cost 300gp)

These are in addition to Masterwork bonuses above.
Dwarven Master Work – masterwork plus weight reduced by 10%. (Cost +100gp)
Elven Master Work – masterwork plus Arcane spell failure chance reduced by 10%. (+100gp)

Master Work Weapons

Master Work – weapon check +1 to attack (Cost 300gp or 600gp for double weapon).

Dwarven Master Work – critical threat range increased by 1
(example = 18-20/x2 would become 17-20/X2). (Cost +100gp)

Elven Master Work – +1 point of critical damage and weight reduced by 10%. (Cost +100gp)

Masterwork is 300gp for weapon or armor (or 600gp for a double weapon). Elven/Dwarven masterwork is an additional 100gp (400gp/800gp) in cost.

Just a heads up AllenDM I did finish up Harry here, just need to purchase miscellaneous gear for him. Can you look him over and let me know if I missed anything?

I like the idea of special Dwarven/Elven masterwork items, but would I be correct in assuming that Dwarven masterwork only applies to weapons with metal? For example, you wouldn't have a Dwarven masterwork bow?

I like the idea of special Dwarven/Elven masterwork items, but would I be correct in assuming that Dwarven masterwork only applies to weapons with metal? For example, you wouldn't have a Dwarven masterwork bow?

No, I am fine with this being applied to weapons outside of the norm of Dwarven or Elven use.

Just a heads up AllenDM I did finish up Harry here, just need to purchase miscellaneous gear for him. Can you look him over and let me know if I missed anything?

Looks good. I don't see anything that stands out.

Update on current submissions.

Jovich - Cerilis SilverTree: Elven Fighter?
hustonJ - Perri Purrun; Rhenna Human variant fighter
Oceanshieldwolf- Palidin/Monk of human Bakluni origin?
Licitus - two submissions (multiclass cleric and a slayer)?
Black Dow - Bynoth Phaelzhur; Oeridian Cleric of Hextor.
Rikash - ?
Eric Swanson - Heirang "Harry" Grawlund; half dwarf sorcerer.

I am going to push out the date to Saturday August 11th. That way everyone can get their submission completed. I am not in a rush right now with vacation going on. August 11th is a hard date and as I see completed submissions I will start making decisions.

SD

Synopsis of House Rules

1)No Favored Classes everyone gets a Favored Bonus (PC’s only). At each level you can choose between gaining 1 hp, 1 skill point, or 1 hero point (max 5 hero points).

2)Skill Points have been modified. Key point is all classes that receive 2 per level are bumped to 4 per level and all 4 per level are bumped to 5 per level.
a.Background Skills – 2 additional points at 1st level to be applied to Knowledge, Craft, or Profession skills.

3)Hero points in use. See HR for adjustments.

4)Caster Bonus Spells – applies to both known spells and spells cast per day.

5)Cantrips/Orisons (0 level spells) now receive an ability bonus a well. See HR for new table.

6)Modifications to classes:((IMPORTANT))
a.Alchemist: Craft (Alchemy) is split into two. Craft (Alchemy) and Craft (Poison). See HR for adjustments.

b.Cleric: At 3rd level they gain Graceful Healing/Diabolic Infliction ability. They use prayer books like wizards use spell books. All 0 level spells that are not restricted due to alignment or religion are in their prayer book. Cure Minor Wounds (Orison/O level) is added to the Cleric spell list. Breath of Life is changed to Cure Deadly Wounds is now part of the spontaneous casting ability of “cure” spells. Bless/Bane and Domain Spells can also be spontaneously cast like “Cure” spells. See HR for additional notes.

c.Druid: Have increased spontaneous casting abilities. See HR for additional notes. Nature Bond includes Druidic Herbalism. Druids use Ritual books like a wizard’s spell book.

d.Fighter: Using a variant fighter. See Variant Fighter doc.

e.Using UNCHAINED versions of classes (Barbarian, Monk, Rogue, Summoner).

f.Monk (UC): gains Weapon Finesse (Agile Maneuvers) feat at 1st Level.

g.Ranger: uses a Ritual Book like Druid. Gains the Alertness feat at 2nd Level. Gains Ranger’s Edge at 5th level (like Rogue’s Edge).

h.Rogue (UC): Gains the Network of Contacts ability at 2nd Level.

i.Sorcerers: Gain Eschew Material feat at 1st Level. Gain Diplomacy and Intimidate skills as class skills.

j.Wizard: If the wizard is holding his arcane bonded object it counts as free for somatic components.

7)Using the D&D 3.5 edition DMG II Contacts rules on pg153 and 154.

8)Signature Skill Feat is allowed for all classes.((IMPORTANT - HEAL SKILLS))

9)Additional NPC and modified NPC classes in play: Aristocrat, Adept (Arcane), Adept (Clerical), Adept (Nature), Commoner, Courtesan, Expert, Thug, Warrior.

10)Racial Class restrictions to match a more old school Greyhawk feel.

11)Adjustments to common races and the addition of the Half Dwarf.

12)There is a total of thirteen knowledge skills with an addition of Military, Occult, and Monster Lore.

13)Modification in Language skills. Not everyone can read and write.

14)Addition in feats; especially for Knowledge feats, poison feats, and such.

15)Change in armor and shields. Additional items added to armor list and AC modified for some items. Shields have DR in addition to AC.

16)Dwarven and Elven Masterwork weapons and armor.

17)New Alchemical item: Healing Salve (important due to using Wound Threshold and Unchained Poison and Disease rules option).

18)Action Economy modified.

19)Wound Threshold rules in play.

20)Unchained Poison and Disease rules in play (modified).

21)Flanking bonus in play for additional opponents on defender’s flank. See HR for details.

22)Called Shot Rules being used.

23)Critical Hits; not using critical hit confirmation rolls. See HR for additional notes on FEAT modifications and such.

24)Magic – modifications in a few spells. See HR for changes.

25)Magical Consequence for mid and high-level spells.

26)Conditions – crouched, prone, drowsy added.

27)Reduction in Feat Tax and a modification in some feats. This is a very big addition as melee fighters get a big boost in combat abilities.

28)Occult Skills Unlock in use.

I just saw this and I have to apply for this.
Maybe a Halfling bard or a dwarven fighter.

Think I'm through playing with spending money for Perri Purrun.

Now I need to make the alias, copy the information over, and then build your preferred format. But, again, too late at night to keep going. Alarm clock goes off in just over 6 hours.

Here is Usu.

He has 5 levels of Slayer and 1 of Alchemist. He also wants to use an archetype with each class: Stygian Slayer for Slayer and Vivisectionist for Alchemist. Please let me know if these archetypes are ok. He is also taking the Vision Mastery feat.

The basic idea is that he is a shortbow using sneaky guy with some utility magic abilities. He likely will venture into poisons later. I wanted him to have a dwarven masterwork bow to increase the critical range, but I just couldn't believe that he would have a dwarven bow instead of an elven one, so, oh well. He even has elven armor even though it doesn't benefit him. (Gotta pump that heritage!)

I'm still working on the cleric character, but I'm trying to work out some concepts for him. Will post him tomorrow.

Hit Points: 3d10 + 1d8 ⇒ (10, 1, 5) + (5) = 21
Reroll 1: 1d10 ⇒ 7

So that comes to 47 HP total from levels, 53 including constitution. I'll need to consider how to use the six Favored Bonuses

Perri Purrun is workable now.

I don't really have any descriptive text, yet.

I'm bumping up against the 9000gp limit for the characters. When you say 2 free weapons, how free is free? I'm assuming that the free part is for a non-masterwork mundane weapon. So if I'm looking for a +2 Str masterwork composite shortbow that is normally 525gp, I could get it for 450gp (75 (composite shortbow) + 150 (+2 Str) + 300 (MW) - 75 (free)). Is that right?

I know the unchained classes are being used, but when multiclassing, are the unchained fractional BAB rules being used, too?

I don't know the intent, but character wealth by level for 6th level characters is 16,000, not 9,000.

I let that difference control what I considered reasonable for the free weapons. My 2 come out with a value of about 5,000.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

The 9000gp is due to the low magic environment.

Free is non masterwork.
9000gp is for anything beyond the states free/starting items.

I know the unchained classes are being used, but when multiclassing, are the unchained fractional BAB rules being used, too?

Yes you can use the unchained fractional BAB.

SD

Here is Usu.

He has 5 levels of Slayer and 1 of Alchemist. He also wants to use an archetype with each class: Stygian Slayer for Slayer and Vivisectionist for Alchemist. Please let me know if these archetypes are ok. He is also taking the Vision Mastery feat.

The basic idea is that he is a shortbow using sneaky guy with some utility magic abilities. He likely will venture into poisons later. I wanted him to have a dwarven masterwork bow to increase the critical range, but I just couldn't believe that he would have a dwarven bow instead of an elven one, so, oh well. He even has elven armor even though it doesn't benefit him. (Gotta pump that heritage!)

I'm still working on the cleric character, but I'm trying to work out some concepts for him. Will post him tomorrow.

[dice=Hit Points]3d10 + 1d8
[dice=Reroll 1]1d10

So that comes to 47 HP total from levels, 53 including constitution. I'll need to consider how to use the six Favored Bonuses

I am fine with your archetypes. I am good with the Feat.

SD

Would you allow the dwarven style feat?
Dwarven Fighter almost done

I'm not going to make posting that cleric today. I'll get his concept straightened out and put him up then.

Would you allow the dwarven style feat?

Dwarven Fighter almost done

Are you talking about Dwarven Hatred Style?

I have no problem with it if that is the case.

Oh yes, I mean the dwarven hatred style line. ;-)
Second would you think Bloodbowl or jugger has a place in your game.
I could imagine that for my dwarf.

Oh yes, I mean the dwarven hatred style line. ;-)

Second would you think Bloodbowl or jugger has a place in your game.
I could imagine that for my dwarf.

Can you post links? :)

Of course!
Jugger Wiki
Jugger game
Bloodbowl Wiki
Bloodbowl game

This will be my application for a halfling (river folk) swashbuckler(Flying blade)/UC Rogue.

Corrected. Dropped 3 +1 items to MW, and still in the budget.

The +1 weapons weren't a HUGE deal for the character. Losing the point of armor feels scarier, actually. Perri's ready to compete fairly.

Corrected. Dropped 3 +1 items to MW, and still in the budget.

The +1 weapons weren't a HUGE deal for the character. Losing the point of armor feels scarier, actually. Perri's ready to compete fairly.

Lol...scary is a good thing. :)

here is a grey elf wizard 5/sorcerer 1. Exploiter archtype for wizard and tattoo sorcerer for archtype with sorcerer. Please have a look. Will have the rest of info, crunch, and background shortly.

Of course!

Jugger Wiki
Jugger game
Bloodbowl Wiki
Bloodbowl game

I might be being dense so I am going to ask. Are you asking if these can be a part of Dwarven society or sport that is common? I am just not sure what you are asking.

I am sure this is me being dense :)

SD

Something like football. Teams compete between towns and fortresses as a past time, for glory and coin and in fairs. Much like in ancient times various peasant games at markets and fairs.