Monster Mashup - Table 1 (Inactive)

Game Master CaveToad

Yeah... I just learned that the Javanese word for imagination literally means "the shape of a shadow," so that's what I'm naming mine.

Would you allow Weapon Versatility to be used with unarmed strike?

Would you allow Weapon Versatility to be used with unarmed strike?

Super cheesy, based on the fluff wording, but RAW it should work, and if you squint really hard and imagine it, its conceivable. I will allow it I guess.

Hmmm.... That really takes a lot of the punch (pun - hah!) out of the Style feats. I mean, Tiger Style gives you slashing, and Snake Style gives you piercing. It's not all they do, but it is a benefit that does come in handy sometimes.

Is that feat 3PP or Paizo?

Paizo, I believe. It's the Undead Slayer's Handbook.

Yea it should be paizo and saves me from having to take the boar style feat all the way to 6 to fit my plan of a swashbuckler cheese dip

Ahhh, since it makes your fists one-handed slashing weapons. Got it.

That is a rather useful feat, I think. I don't know if there are any enemies particularly weak to slashing or piercing weapons, but I know that undead and slimes hate bludgeoning damage. Oh god, slimes. I will NOT lose another Dwarven Longhammer to a gray ooze! Hopefully, by the time we run into one of those horrid monstrosities, I'll have a decent blasting spell. If not, we'll have to find another way to kill it.

It's really variable. Some undead don't mind bludgeoning at all. Bludgeoning tends to be the best choice for bypassing DR, though.

That feat seems to work best with weapons that are already slashing or piercing to begin with. I can see how it could work with a spear, a sword, or even an axe with a spike on the top, but I'm just trying to imagine using it with my dwarven warhammer. Even unarmed strikes I can kind of see doing those kinds of damage, assuming you're following anime logic, but what is basically a mallet on a stick seems a bit wierd. Maybe if it's more like a halberd, with several kinds of damage-dealing surfaces, it could work...

Well, take an earthmaul: It's already assumed to have small spikes on it. So it could easily do piercing (as could most hammers, really, especially if they have a spike on the end opposite the flat side... at all). And literally anything at the right angle will lacerate. It might also be more that you're able to do things like sever limbs with a hammer, which might help to make more sense (as one use you might want is dismembering zombies with a mace :p)

Hmmm.... That really takes a lot of the punch (pun - hah!) out of the Style feats. I mean, Tiger Style gives you slashing, and Snake Style gives you piercing. It's not all they do, but it is a benefit that does come in handy sometimes.

Is that feat 3PP or Paizo?

I definitely agree it obsoletes many of those style feats alternate damage types in one fell swoop. The wording also leads me to believe it is supposed to be for priests using their favored weapon or something. I don't have that book, so I am just relying on the SRD sites. Given the level of other craziness going on, I don't feel its too broken, although I agree.

Mlinzi Nwosu wrote:

Hmmm.... That really takes a lot of the punch (pun - hah!) out of the Style feats. I mean, Tiger Style gives you slashing, and Snake Style gives you piercing. It's not all they do, but it is a benefit that does come in handy sometimes.

Is that feat 3PP or Paizo?

I definitely agree it obsoletes many of those style feats alternate damage types in one fell swoop. The wording also leads me to believe it is supposed to be for priests using their favored weapon or something. I don't have that book, so I am just relying on the SRD sites. Given the level of other craziness going on, I don't feel its too broken, although I agree.

Might be worth taking as a special item feat, though. Considering the fact that they're especially special already, I could totally see it being either a supernatural power of the weapon itself, or to represent the weapon actually changing form as time goes on (kinda like a Zanpakutou from Bleach). Since we'll be getting weapon focus in it anyway, it shouldn't be a problem.

Also, I was reading through the other threads, and Group 5 came up with a brilliant way to feed themselves! I don't think it would work for us, but I just want to give them props for it.

Might be worth taking as a special item feat, though. Considering the fact that they're especially special already, I could totally see it being either a supernatural power of the weapon itself, or to represent the weapon actually changing form as time goes on (kinda like a Zanpakutou from Bleach). Since we'll be getting weapon focus in it anyway, it shouldn't be a problem.

Also, I was reading through the other threads, and Group 5 came up with a brilliant way to feed themselves! I don't think it would work for us, but I just want to give them props for it.

Will ponder the weapon stuff, they will get pretty juicy as is, so not too worried.

Also it is interesting to see how each table deals with their trek. Most have done well, but will see how many reach the lake or shelter before night hits and the cold sets in.

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.

Looking at it: It'd probably make Maks angry to see someone do that. Quite angry. Mostly because it's way too close to the person she was, leading sheep blindly around with tricks and traps. Calling an animal only to murder it for food is betrayal, at best.

Oh yeah. I don't think Mlinzi would like it, either. He'd prefer to stalk and hunt the creature, though if you pressed him on it, he probably wouldn't be able to tell you why he thought it was wrong. There's a compelling argument to be made from a consequentialist point of view that if you're going to kill an animal for food, it's best to do so as quickly and painlessly as possible, without any prior warning whatsoever, so that the animal doesn't suffer any longer than necessary.

As for the weapon thing, I was just thinking about taking it as one of special item feats we get (and lose if our item is lost). I'm not worried about it either, since this is a high-powered tristalt game anyway.

On that note, I'm finding myself in a weird place right now. This is the most capable Level 1 character I've ever built, and yet I still feel vulnerable and squishy. I mean, I'm not really squishy. My AC is off the charts and I've got the HP of a level-2 character that rolled well, but I still feel pretty vulnerable. Hunger, the elements, and the ungodly horrors that are creatures well above our CR could still take us out pretty quick, and it's fun to take on these challenges head-on.

I think the only part that upsets Maks is the betrayal. Putting it to sleep and then killing it is okay with her.

Miyu would be belligerent about it, but that's kind of his job, to tell Maks when she's doing it wrong. Also, hunting is pretty much the one thing he's good at right now.

I've no idea what I plan to do with my weapon. :)

I tend to play more organic-growth characters, latching on to what the DM hands me as ways to progress, rather than seeking them out.

That being said, I think I'm going to try to focus Maks on spell research like Teniel. I'm not sure what I'll be picking up, but I'll likely want to create spells that are unusual in use, and more about the senses.

A good example is an Uber Trail of the Rose. What does it do? I don't know. But Trail of the Rose is super neat, if not useful (especially with our cow :p)

Yeah, I'm definitely putting a rank in Survival next level, even if it isn't necessary by then. All this focus on staying alive in the woods is going to teach Mlinzi a LOT (class skill, so +4 on the first rank, which should be enough to carry him for the rest of the adventure). Not sure where I'll be taking the skill point from, though. Maybe Knowledge (Nature), since the party seems to have that covered already, and most of the other skills are really important to the character concept.

So I've been trying to look into this Agile Dancer feat, but I can only find it in that google doc that was linked to, not on d20pfsrd or any other online source. I'm assuming this means it's out? @CaveToad?

While looking, I did find spear dancer, which Makoto might be interested in (I don't know what kind of spear you have though, as I think there are both 1 and 2 handed ones?).

Mlinzi Nwosu wrote:

Hmmm.... That really takes a lot of the punch (pun - hah!) out of the Style feats. I mean, Tiger Style gives you slashing, and Snake Style gives you piercing. It's not all they do, but it is a benefit that does come in handy sometimes.

Is that feat 3PP or Paizo?

I definitely agree it obsoletes many of those style feats alternate damage types in one fell swoop. The wording also leads me to believe it is supposed to be for priests using their favored weapon or something. I don't have that book, so I am just relying on the SRD sites. Given the level of other craziness going on, I don't feel its too broken, although I agree.

There's a few reasons it's not quite as good as it sounds (it's still good!). First, the wording implies that you need a swift action to start it at the beginning of any combat, just like a style feat—and unlike snake style/boar style, it doesn't give extra benefits (just more versatility). Also, it still wouldn't qualify you for spells like Keen Edge or Mythic Greater Magic Fang (Keen) (you still need Hamatalasu Strike to do this, which is a free action), though you can use it with a Keen Amulet of Mighty Fists, just like with Snake/Boar Style, as well as with Swashbuckler/Duelist stuff.

The bigger deal is that it lets you deal slashing/bludgeoning with a bow without relying on special arrows, which is really nice at low levels. (or against anything with DR adamantine+bludgeoning)

I currently know 10 cantrips (though it'll go up to 14 in a few levels).
They are:

Detect Magic
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
Create Water
Stabilize
Guidance
Mending
Mage Hand
Ghost Sound
Sift (the best cantrip ever! Makoto should pick this up too once her perception winds up way higher than mine)

Okay, and as an Oracle and a Bard, you can cast all of them, right? Create Water is the most crucial right now, though most if not all of those will really come in handy at some point. Stabilize is really useful if we run into trouble, Guidance is great for keeping us out of trouble, Mending will be extremely important for our continued survival and comfort, and Prestidigitation is the most versatile spell in existence.

Actually, now that I think about it, Mending will be really useful, since it means any makeshift tools or garments we make will be able to last longer.

I didn't think at all about synergies with other characters; just took my two curse cantrips and the eight most useful other ones. We can coordinate as we level up; but there really aren't that many good ones, and each of the sorcerers can eventually pick 9.

(And Mlinzi, I believe you only have low-light vision, which isn't quite darkvision)

So I've been trying to look into this Agile Dancer feat, but I can only find it in that google doc that was linked to, not on d20pfsrd or any other online source. I'm assuming this means it's out? @CaveToad?

I am not sure i ever heard of it. Can you link it again. We would need a source for it, otherwise I won't allow it.

I found an Agiler Performer feat that was part of a 3.5 wiki, but I won't use that.

It looks like it's from the PoW2 playtest, from what I remember of the document formatting. But it does so little that I wouldn't worry about it much either way.

I also paid zero attention to any applicants (aside from Lucina) when creating my character. I was less worried about synergizing, and more worried about making a character I'd enjoy. She's a -lot- more cultured... And a lot less wild, in terms of skill selections. She was more into studying and practicing arts than fighting, allowing her innate talents to take the place of most effort. The only thing that hasn't been mostly natural to her is Paladin, which she has struggled with by comparison.

Likewise, while she -can- fight, that is not her ideal solution. Everyone has purpose and beauty, and killing should be reserved for those who disprove redemption as an option. On the bright side, one of her tails allows her to become invisible, so she'll be a capable and mobile healer in combat.

I was a bit selfish with her build, now that I look at it. I didn't really focus on optimization, instead going with what felt right for her.

She also has a ton of places to feat dump. Diefic Obedience, Perhaps Eldritch Heritage, Crafting Feats, Moar tails, Fox Form, Channeling feats, lay on hands feats (that are worthwhile), extra evolution, familiar feats...

I do intend to get spear dancer for neatness, as well. I think that might be part of my spear, so that it's something the spear does in the hands of a dancer.

Further Versatile Performance Question:

When I gain versatile performance (or someone gains a bonus feat or spell that they already have), do we still have to use retraining? For example, Makoto has a Diplomacy rank. At next level, she might take versatile performance (wind). If she does, her diplomacy keys off of the wind skill, and diplomacy is no longer necessary.

Do I need to use retraining rules to drop it? Do I need money for that? Or do we simply swap things when we later get them 'for free'.

It looks like it's from the PoW2 playtest, from what I remember of the document formatting. But it does so little that I wouldn't worry about it much either way.

Ok that makes sense. I am using feats from the PoW2 playtest, with the caveat that if they change at final release people have to change to the final version or use retrain to take something else if they don't like it.

So it is valid, with that caveat.

Further Versatile Performance Question:

When I gain versatile performance (or someone gains a bonus feat or spell that they already have), do we still have to use retraining? For example, Makoto has a Diplomacy rank. At next level, she might take versatile performance (wind). If she does, her diplomacy keys off of the wind skill, and diplomacy is no longer necessary.

Do I need to use retraining rules to drop it? Do I need money for that? Or do we simply swap things when we later get them 'for free'.

You do need to retrain it to get rid of it. In most cases it probably won't cost money. Depending what you retrain to, it may cost money. Probably not too much for skills. Mostly there may be no or very nominal gold cost. You won't be able to swap for free.

(And Mlinzi, I believe you only have low-light vision, which isn't quite darkvision)

I bought Darkvision as part of the RP buy. Vanara comes with Low-Light built in, and then Cave Toad the Generous's rules allowed me to build the ubermensch of Vanarans. +2 to every stat but Charisma and Darkvision - boring, yet effective.

Just as an FYI, making your survival checks provides you with water as well as food. Create Water does make things much easier, but with the checks being made you are assumed to have found some of the streams dumping the snowmelt water into the lake or what not.

Could i remove my change log since the game is now set?

Just as an FYI, making your survival checks provides you with water as well as food. Create Water does make things much easier, but with the checks being made you are assumed to have found some of the streams dumping the snowmelt water into the lake or what not.

Oh, okay, that really helps.

Could i remove my change log since the game is now set?

yes, no problem.

Well, I can't think of much more to do or say until we advance to the next stage. Either we get to the lake or something happens along the way or... I just can't think of much. I want to keep the action moving, but I think we've practically exhausted the topic of survival plans for now.

Yes you will be to the lake shortly. Just giving ample time for RP and ideas.

We could easily talk about other things. :)

"Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components."

That should solve bowls and cups, at least.

Huh, yeah... wonder if it would work for cooking, or if heating those objects would be too much strain on them.

Get ready to play the Chariots of Fire song!

I think I'll swap out mobility for agile dancer and then update the feat when the actual PoW2 book comes out. So I guess my extra skill point from acrobatics is now going to go in...swim maybe?

-sigh- We were doing so well up to this point, and suddenly a few lousy rolls has Mlinzi spooked about the fire and annoying Makoto as he tries to deal with it. I'm DEFINITELY putting a point in Survival next level. I'd do it now, but that's too meta.

Honestly... I think a 29 survival is enough to have made fire. Even without hands. :P

lol, yeah, that's why I haven't posted a response yet. I want to see what Cave Toad rules for that before I type up Mlinzi's reaction. If there's fire, he'll calm down pretty quick.

What's interesting is that I, as a player, am not all that concerned about it. We do have options, and those early DC's aren't that hard to make, especially with our generous stats, and we've all got pretty decent HP. Mlinzi could survive an average of five or six failed checks. It wouldn't be pretty, but he'd survive.

The panic is over, and the fire it there. Such tension! Its like a movie!

And yes the items created by prestidigitation are too fragile to cook with or bang around much.

One thing you guys might pick up on later, or already know: Makoto's tails are each capable of casting a certain spell. They're actually labeled with ribbons.

Red: Suggestion
Orange: Misdirection
Yellow: Disguise Self
Green: Dancing Lights
Blue: Charm Person
Indigo: Invisibility
Violet: Displacement

The tail in question that was dancing along with her flickering ear was Suggestion (Red). So... it wouldn't be a difficult sense motive check (or just understanding who she is), to realize she was thinking about trying to zap Mlinzi into a state of calm... but fought it down. :P

Also, I figure Makoto will explain what she's aware of, amongst the group, of them being able to do. If there are things she shouldn't know how to do, point them out! (If you'd share it and she wouldn't have known, point that out as well!) It can also just be a discussion amongst the group, if you guys don't want for it to be 'Makoto pays attention!'

Also, were you still thinking of dropping enlarge and/or reduce person, Tavros?

I listed my spell like abilities below, but didn't spot any that anyone else has. This should help to have a master list so people know who to suggest an idea to if they happen to have one!

Edit: Awww... it killed my formatting :( Fixt...ish. I don't think it wants it to be pretty and line up. :(

I wish the BBcode on here let you do things like tables with columns and rows and the like. As much as these forums get used and the purposes they are used for, I feel like they could offer more robust features.

If I understood Google Docs... I could probably do it that way. It'd be pretty and readily available, easily updated by the entire group, there could be links to spells and DCs just sitting there ready...

But I seem to be somewhat excel illiterate. :(

@Maks, I could totally set one up for us! Gimme a sec!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jS7GDvYK_rvLiKD_epDs9bKsmnpMBsgL84x WCiE141Y/edit?usp=sharing

Okay everyone, here's a link to a doc. It's far from complete, and I'd like to add some other stuff - maybe a combat tracker. I'm still working on getting Makoto's stuff converted over into the right format, and I'd appreciate it if everyone could put in their own personal info on the first page. Any suggestions for stuff to add?

It claims nonexistence!