I won't allow people to take Monk and UCMonk together. They are just variants of one another (to me).
That makes sense. What about ninja/rogue? I believe they can't be MC'd together, so probably no gestalt either.
Edit: Actually, hiding away anything on that sheet might be somewhat annoying, other than the stats (which could be pulled for other things?). Having to jump to another sheet to change a value could be a pain.
Right, that's part of why I didn't do that. I mean, it'd make it prettier, but I'm not sure if that's a good enough offset for convenience. There'd be more motivation if we had multiple sheets that wanted to reference skills. If I were to change it, probably what I would do is create a sheet for each character and basically make those your character sheets. Then pages like we have now would be more of a high level overview of everybody pulled from each of those individual pages. Which may be a bit of overkill. Although if I get bored, I might end up playing around with that sort of thing for fun on my own.
@Speed: Monk's speed boost is an enhancement bonus, so it doesn't stack with Haste, Longstrider or UCMonk. Barbarian does stack with monk, but RAW it doesn't stack with Bloodrager (since they both say "typical speed for race, +10 feet"). Aegis is badly-worded and untyped, making things a bit unclear. You're stuck at 100' speed.
I did not know this, and now I am slightly :-(. I have a weird love of being able to moves tons.
@Makoto: Did you end up doing the coloring by hand? It looked kind of like it, so I went and added some conditional formatting (Format > Conditional Formatting. There's this relatively new "Color Scale" thing you can do that is pretty handy). If you want the set ranges (not just "Close" but things that are always 60') to also get colored, just change the cell value to a number.
That makes sense. What about ninja/rogue? I believe they can't be MC'd together, so probably no gestalt either.
Technically ninja is a rogue variant, so no.
I started looking in to making a character sheet for tristalt and found this. Seems pretty nice, but not fully functional. Definitely better than anything I could make without tons of work. It's missing some classes though (like all the new unchained ones). It's probably possible to update it, but it's not super obvious how that would be done right now.
Also, @Makoto: It looks like there is copy down (and probably other direction) functionality in google spreadsheets!
Edit: This and this both seem to be a more up-to-date version of the character sheet.
...I'm pretty sure at this point I may have spent too much time on this and should stop. :x
I did manually handle color; I couldn't figure out how to conditional format the text color as opposed to the block color.
Why stop doing something you enjoy? :)
Drat. I forgot about Pathfinder's stupid "like bonuses don't stack" thing. I totally understand not allowing Unchained versions of the same class, though. I probably wouldn't allow those kinds of shenanigans in my own games. Still, having seen no prohibition against it, I assumed it was alright.
Still, Monks are crazy fast, and I won't complain that I can't get super-duper speed. And Haste will still help me because of the extra attacks, even if, after awhile, it won't make me faster anymore.
I did manually handle color; I couldn't figure out how to conditional format the text color as opposed to the block color.
Hmm, you could probably do it; you'd just need more rules probably. I'll look in to it.
Why stop doing something you enjoy? :)
This may be why we now have a function that will take the highlighted cells and attempt to link them to the appropriate spell description page (it's under Other > Link Spells). :x
Edit: I should mention that the above function is far from perfect, but it should still save time on most of the spells. The ones that are wrong can be manually corrected for now.
From the guy whose speed will never pass 15'... yeah, 100 is still pretty decent.
From the guy not riding a tiger... yeah, 50 is still pretty decent. :P
Just an FYI, I will be continuing to review characters today wishing to complete them before moving past the night. I will be doing some other things today as well, so you may not hear from me until later this afternoon.
Glamorous Foxy Foxy has had all of her updates. :)
Speaking of great Bard archetypes, I really like the Archivist, since you can become the Knower of All Things. Price is steep, though. You've gotta give up Inspire Courage
I actually dislike Archivist because your ability to perform is -entirely- based on your ability to identify something. Worse, it just seems to wind up falling -really- flat as far as performance is concerned. I just don't enjoy it. :(
@Makoto, you still get Inspire Greatness and the other good performances, just not Inspire Courage. At early levels, identifying monsters is super important, but later on, it's not so bad. The real draw to Archivist for me is all the skill stuff. Eventually, every skill is a class skill, and I think getting a bonus, and usable untrained, and at high levels, you can get huge temporary bonuses to those skills.
I dunno... when it comes to "Knower of all things," Archivist falls flat compared to the crazy bonuses some of the other options get... plus, you're still stuck being a bard, which can be obnoxious in a non-gestalt game. (Though if you stick it with Unchained Kirin Style, you can be a pseudo-Investigator, and take 10 on all of those knowledge checks).
One man's trash is another man's treasure. The combination of abilities that bard provides is just so much fun to me. I just -really- enjoy it. Then again, I tend to enjoy some pretty odd things. :)
Well, I've had to change my build a bit. I'm losing Martial Flexibility, and gaining Bloodline Powers (meh, but I'll get some healing out of it). In light of the fact, I rearranged my build to give me more of a tripping build. Now my goal will be to knock down enemies for the rest of you to finish off. With 7 AoO's per round, I don't think anybody's getting past me.
Why'd you have to change it? :)
Empyreal Bloodline isn't compatible with Eldritch Scrapper. :/
On the bright side, I now have +14 to trip, so I'm not at the mercy of the dice... unless we go up against something too big to trip.
I can't wait for Cat's Grace, by the way. A bonus to AC, an extra AoO, and a better tripping CMB will be AWESOME.
If you realllly want to trip, there's always the Stone Shaman, who gets a different spell list entirely.
And Cat's Grace is a bit of a red herring. By the time you get it, you can already craft a belt of +2 Dex, reducing the bonus. Shield gives a much bigger AC bonus, 6 AoOs/round is already plenty (with mythic it becomes infinite regardless of dex), and the extra damage from increasing Str is probably more useful for a monk... plus, you're spending an entire turn casting spells for an extremely marginal bonus.
Crafting really depends on the pace of the game you're playing. You've got to have down time and money for magic items, and in my experience loot rarely drops in quantities sufficient to support crafting, at least not at early levels when something like Cat's Grace would be useful. Then again, I'm used to AP's, so that could be different with Cave Toad.
As for tripping, it won't always shine as much as it does now. Getting Dex AND Str to tripping CMB is huge, though, especially at early levels, when the fickle mistress that is the whim of a 20-sided die is a major problem. This means that I can gain benefits to my tripping from either Dex or Str, and I think overall my character would benefit more from Dex, since it boosts my skills (notably Acrobatics) and AC. Increasing my to-hit and damage would also be nice, but I've got plenty of other ways to increase those that don't take a round to accomplish. Plus, I may be relying on Tavros to deal the big damage now, since my accuracy with tripping is going to be much better in every situation.
The question of whether to buff myself or attack is going to be a perennial problem, I fear. My best option might be to knock down all opponents, then rely on my AoO's for melee while I take a round or two to buff myself. "Oh, you want to stand up? I'm sorry, I didn't give you permission!" -trip-
Hmmm... good thing our party isn't built around a lot of ranged characters! :P
If there were an option to use a bow/harp, I'd have fallen back on an old favorite (the Heartstring). :P but alas...
Oh, I just saw (at least a half hour ago because my computer is currently slow as a three-legged turtle), that everyone on our table has passed review! Congratulations everyone! Go Table 1!
Hmm. Tripping normally becomes more powerful at mid-to-high levels, though it unfortunately doesn't work against really big or incorporeal enemies (and you're not playing any of the maneuver-friendly classes/archetypes). As for crafting—you're essentially earning 500 gp/day. More once you get mythic crafting feats.
In the other game I'm in with Tavros/Makoto/Lucina, my character's main focus is on crafting and tripping, and it's actually proving to be a very effective strategy... but, eh, this party's got enough feats to cover all the important maneuvers one way or another (wonder who will be our grappler though).
I refuse to learn grappling. That system is a confusing web of insanity from which there is no escape. I know that my class combination would make me really good at it, but I'm not going there.
I don't know why tripping would become more powerful at mid-levels, except that normally you can't get good at tripping until then. It's a feat-heavy chain, so it makes sense that you wouldn't be able to get the kind of bonuses I'm getting until much later than normal.
Then again, with most of the enemies we'll be facing at early levels, it doesn't take much damage to take them out, so tripping might turn out to be a waste of time, so maybe that's why.
Ok reviews for all characters have gone out. Many of you have already responded and adjusted or tweaked as needed, and are marked as passed. If you are changing something while we are still in Trial Phase, send me an email, so I can note it. Once we end Trial phase, changes can no longer be made without retraining. Some of you have replied but are still working on some changes or tweaks, so haven't been marked passed yet. I have the next adventure piece planned, and also working on some frameworks for a more solid ruleset for your special items, that will let you plan a little better.
Just a note about the flow. For now we are still in trial, and I am keeping the tables on roughly the same timeline due to proximity and potential for immediate(ish) interaction as well as some timed events. Once the groups split apart more and follow their own paths, it will be more free flow and I won't keep everyone on the same event timeline. This is also why I want to make sure all characters pass review before I move the timeline forward, despite some tables all passed or almost there.
This post will be cross-posted to the various tables, so sorry for the spam if you read in more than one place. I would like the various tables to check in with the master thread as well, just to keep track of overall changes.
In addition, I will be camping from Friday June 26 through Thurs July 2nd. The last you may hear from me would be Friday morning the 26th and not until probably the evening of July 2nd when I return. The camp ground is remote, and cell reception is unreliable at best, and I don't feel I can adequately GM from a phone in the wilderness, so I will suspend play during that time, or if possible, I will try to get the groups to a point where you can do things that don't require me as much. Without revealing too much about what lies in store now, I will have more information as we get closer.
Err, 3.5 Grappling is a web of insanity—PF made it simple (though not as simple as 5e).
And your trip CMB, if you're building for trip, should scale faster than twice your level.
Hmm. If we wanted, we could cross the stream as we head off to separate from the other groups—I don't see any one of us having trouble with swimming, we don't have any gear to worry about getting wet, and tigers are basically big fluffy rafts.
There is Tavros's Spell Book... Other than that, you're right, though. And maybe we could waterproof it with Prestidigitation. If bowls can keep water in, a sealed box should be able to keep water out.
I added Lucina and the initiatives that have been rolled so far to the combat tracker in the spreadsheet. I didn't add all her stats, just AC, saves, and HP. Once everybody's got their initiatives in, we can sort it by init to see the turn order (minus the baddies). In the case of a tie (such as with Mlinzi's and Tavros' initiatives), I put in decimals to represent the initiative bonus, since higher bonus goes first in such instances. If Makoto ties with anyone when she rolls, we can put in those decimals at that time.
I can't believe how horribly we all rolled for initiative...
Well, at least I made my perception check? Although just barely. And at least I'm probably the most appealing target, and I can't be caught flat-footed.
On the bright side, if they do beat me in init, it gives me a good excuse not to just be like, "Goat brothers! Welcome!" which I feel like is totally something Tavros would do. Although his sense of "stay quiet while people sleep" is luckily semi-non-existent most of the time. Hence why early morning tap performances are clearly a thing.
Yeah, even then... it's not good when you don't have any sign of a whole horde of enemies until they're 30 feet away.
One thing I've already realized that I want to change, is that I want to give Miyu the Bludgeoner feat over dodge. :p. I still want to send him down the spring attack line, though.
Well, at least one of us got a decent Initiative roll. I wonder how well these goat people can fight if they can't stand?
On the bright side, even if Tavros doesn't wake us up, and trying to be friendly fails... it's gonna be like dc 0 after mods for us to notice the fight.
On the downside... poor moo cow.
He's got 21 AC and 18 HP. I think he should be able to survive a surprise round.
Hey CaveToad, if you could make that link public access, rather than one where you have to request permission, that would help anyone who doesn't have a google account, and make things run more smoothly. There should be an option to set up a sharing link from the sharing box.
As someone who has a google account. I think it's currently just not set to shareable? Hmm.
Yeah, it's asking me to request access, and I'm not sure if I should do that or if it's better to wait for Cave Toad to set up a different link.
Well, the goat men go first anyway, so you're probably not missing much by waiting. You'd also probably end up waiting anyway as it sounds like CaveToad would need to approve your request for access anyway.
I'm not really worried about it, but I think it'll be easier on Cave Toad if he doesn't have to approve 30-ish viewers for his maps. Obviously, each team gets a different map, but still, that's a lot of unnecessary paperwork.
Should be shared out and editable now. I know I shared it, but when I went back in, it was set to private. So strange. It should work now.
Ah, there we go! Awesome! The difficult terrain is going to work in the favor of us reach guys, and I'm totally used to it thanks to playing so much Reign of Winter. You've got this Tavros!
Well, difficult terrain also means I can't charge. Which means they're probably going to get 2 attacks before I can do anything. :/ Although I suppose n-1 attacks isn't much different from n right now.
Well, that's true. You're stuck to moving and then attacking. Still, once you've moved in the surprise round, they'll start provoking from you, either to move in closer to hit you in melee or when they try to throw their javelins (unless they've got a special feature that lets them throw without provoking). Within 15 feet of you there's a spot where you can threaten three goat men at once from 10 feet (I don't remember if you've got a reach weapon), and with difficult terrain, any movement they make will provoke an AoO from you.
Not being able to charge hurts, but we can use this to our advantage in a big way. If I can find the time to cast it, I'll probably Enlarge here so I can control a huge amount of the battlefield. With this many enemies, that'll really help us, but it's a long spell and there's not a lot of time to work with here...
Within 15 feet of you there's a spot where you can threaten three goat men at once from 10 feet (I don't remember if you've got a reach weapon), and with difficult terrain, any movement they make will provoke an AoO from you.
And if I move 20ft, I threaten 4 of them. Because "I am large" 10ft reach is different from "I have a reach weapon" 10 ft reach (Check out the templates further down here).
Although part of me is now thinking that maybe I should have gone with reach weapons. Because that + long arm would be ridiculous. Maybe I will grab something as a mundane item later.
Guyyyys difficult terrain means nobody can 5' step. Welcome to the AoO party.
@Tavros: You're a monk who attacks with your head. You can hold a double weapon, then take one hand off as a free action to use spell combat, and make all your regular attacks with your unarmed strikes while keeping the weapon for AoOs—there is no downside to this. I recommend a Kurisagama or Kyotetsu Shoge—bonus to disarm on top of 20' of reach (and you threaten everything inside that reach with your stronger natural weapon).
Yep, AoO's EVERYWHERE! I can eat them easily (and will eventually be trying to draw them), and I can really dish them out.
As for Tavros, I was suggesting staying 10 feet back because threatening is no good if you can't provoke. Ten feet out, they have to either throw weapons (which provokes) or step up to you on difficult terrain (which also provokes).
As for the best Monk reach weapon, I suggest the old standby - Double-Chained Kama. Drop one end and retrieve it as a free action, threaten and flurry at reach, enchant each head differently, and use it at close-range if necessary. Plus you get a bonus to trip.