Monster Mashup - Table 1 (Inactive)

Game Master CaveToad

Hmmm... that's odd. Try again? Maybe I made a mistake copying the link... It works for me, but since I created it, that's not exactly a surprise.

All better!

Somewhat humorous that a group of incredibly powerful characters struggles to boil an egg. In a way its fun to see how these sort of non-combat challenges are overcome through creativity.

Scoop for the water + Mage Hand for the egg. OP!

@Makoto: I've also got Summon Monster I and Unseen Servant

Also, Spark will be nice; but it might be a while before any of us can cast Purify Food/Drink

Scoop for the water + Mage Hand for the egg. OP!

I knew scoop needed nerfing! Now I know why it exists hahah.

Guys... we're a monkey, a minotaur, a fox, a half-hag, and a savage jungle gnome. Why do we have a problem with eating raw eggs?

The difference between civilized foxes and wild foxes is the difference between a freegan and a caveman.

Just be glad you can get her to eat anything with gluten in it. :)

That being said, Makoto cares -much less- about the survival aspects so far. She's interested, but she feels like a lot of the effort is a waste. That doesn't mean she won't do as she's told (sometimes). :)

@Dalang: I added your spells to the list of ermagerd. I listed it as (Perform), since that's the real cap on it.

@Cavetoad: Any way we can get the google docs link added to the summary section, so it'll hover at the top of our thread? :) It'll make it much easier to access it on the fly.

Okay, yes, there are a lot of ways to cook eggs, and a flat rock + mage hand definitely would make for easy fried eggs. It was merely an example of something we might want to cook that wouldn't spit well.

But yeah, it is interesting to watch tristalt characters struggle to light a fire and cook an egg.

Also, just a question: Did we catch any small game? Rabbits, birds, anything?

@Cavetoad: Any way we can get the google docs link added to the summary section, so it'll hover at the top of our thread? :) It'll make it much easier to access it on the fly.

Done.

I can't recall if I specified. You probably flushed out a bird or two, and Miyu or Pambru may have caught a rabbit apiece, as they are faster and able to probably take down a swift rabbit without missile weapons. The rabbit skins could be made into moccasins with proper tanning and a few days, and the birds will provide feathers for writing quills. All will provide small bones, useful for a variety of small things.

Do we have left over food? If it's meat we might be able to freeze it via ray of frost for preservation or an Ice pack if the day becomes too hot

As the groups wait for the night to pass, I will be doing final reviews. Notes I have taken and crunches will be reviewed for errors and mismatches. I have a spreadsheet and will use a checklist (listed below) to mark a pass for fail in each category for each character. It will make things go a lot faster if you go over the list yourself and make sure you can pass all the items. If a character needs to fix something, go ahead and get it tweaked. If your character build is somehow invalid and takes a rework that is ok. Otherwise no massive tweaks should be required. Once all characters on a table pass, I will proceed with play. I will send each player an email with a checklist of the pass/fail items. Help each other out and check out each others builds, although many of you may already have. Here is the checklist I will use:

Abilities:
Original stat rolls - Matching
Original stat rolls - 90 or more?
Stat rolls - additions and subtractions noted in a budget spoiler
Abilities - Bonuses are correct
Racial:
Racial Qualities accounted for
Racial Ability mods applied correctly
Racial Purchases - 30 RP budget matches and purchases documented
Classes:
Classes legal sources
Classes - Archetypes legal, multiple archetypes valid, cross bloodlines legal
Classes - Alignment requirements met
Combat Crunch
Crunch - Size/Reach noted
Crunch - Initiative and Perception values correct
Crunch - Move speed correct
Crunch - Armor Class values correct, math shown
Crunch - HP values correct, math shown, FCB and toughness applied, proper HD used
Crunch - Saves correct, math shown
Crunch - CMB/CMD accurate, math shown
Skills
Skills - Correct points calculated for level, bonus included
Skills - Correct number of ranks applied
Skills - Correct bonuses for class skills applied based on classes, proper stat bonuses and misc bonuses applied
Skills - Untrained skills listed
Feats:
Feats - Correct Number of feats
Feats - Prerequisites met for all feats, source of feat documented
Traits:
Traits - Three traits are of different type
Traits - Legal Traits
Traits - Any bonuses are applied
Special Abilities:
Special Abilities - uses per day properly calculated as needed
Special Abilities - correct abilities for classes and archetype(s)
Spells/Powers:
Spells - valid number of daily spells
Spells - valid spell selections
PoW stances - valid discipline
PoW stances - correct number of stances
PoW stances - valid stances
Minions:
Minions - All minions have a full stat block with values properly calculated
Minions - Eidolons Pool points correctly distributed, Feats applied, powers fit form
Minions - Familiars, correct type applied, skills, hp and base saves documented from master, feat rechosen as needed
Minions - Companions calculated correctly, feats, tricks and all stats match
Languages:
Languages - Match racial type (linguist, xenophobic), available legal options and int bonus
Misc:
Misc - hero points documented
Misc - Item documented, with its own crunch, and bonus feats ( weapon prof ), etc
Misc - Character description, backstory, personality, goals
Misc - Mini Crunch in character stat fields
Misc - Age, Size, misc features filled in
Misc - Encumbrance loads listed
Misc - Monetary Budget spoiler

This will be crossposted to the table threads too, since some do not read the master thread.

So, as we're following up... I realized that Dual Mind would actually let me get rage powers faster than Primalist ever could. Is it too late to switch out Primalist Bloodrager for Crossblooded? (It would affect next-to-nothing at this level, other than giving me a penalty to will saves; the bloodlines that feel most appropriate are Fey, or Undead "plane of shadow"). I'm fine going either way on it, though if I crossblooded I'd probably also want to turn my reflex-save trait into a will save trait.

I also really like Aberration for playing up 'Shadow' if you want to look into that.

1st: Staggering Touch
4th: Stretchy like shadows
8th: Resistance to some bad conditions that shadow-plane wouldn't care about.
12: 50% chance of no crit and no sneaks? yes?
16: Immune to basically everything super bad ever.
20: Immune to crits, sneak attacks, blindsight, and more DR... that's just all super fitting for a 'shadow' build, IMO.

Aberrant does have the most thematic bonus spells, but...

-I'm picking up the arcane level 4/8 abilities, no questions asked, this will make my mount basically indestructible

-Arcane bloodline already gives me pseudo-permanent displacement at level 8 (and blur at 4 if I'm up against a sneak attacker), which means 100% immunity to sneak attacks pretty much always.

-Misfortune revelation, which I'm picking up at level 3, should be able to block 1 crit/round against any member of the group, so that level 12 ability isn't really useful

-Level 16 ability is pretty redundant with my curse (lame, that is; I dual-cursed haunted so I can auto-qualify for Veiled Illusionist PrC as soon as I learn silence)

Undead bloodline lets me actually turn into a literal shadow; Aberrant seems more "Dark Tapestry" themed. Fey is more of a gnome thing, but I've always pictured Wayangs as sneaky jungle gnomes.

EDIT: With Improved Uncanny Dodge, most Bloodragers can never be sneak attacked anyway...

Concealment has no effect on the sneak attack of the unchained rogue (and if someone's playing chained rogue... they missed the memo, or -really- love offensive defense).

I'll agree on Wayang's basically being -really- boring gnomes. 'We worship turning neutral' compared to 'We obsess over everything that's shiny'. :P

Edit: Bard = Rogue. I'm a derp. But I mean... chained rogue was basically a wannabe bard, yeah? :P

Wayangs are very cool gnomes. Unfortunately, their lack of the "gnome" subtype makes them lose out on a very large number of archetypes, feats and traits devoted to illusion magic.

Also, it's somewhat unclear whether Unchained Sneak Attack functions against Displacement (since it's pseudo-total concealment); this probably deserves an FAQ. But giving partial sneak attack immunity to a class with improved uncanny dodge seems pointless.

So, as we're following up... I realized that Dual Mind would actually let me get rage powers faster than Primalist ever could. Is it too late to switch out Primalist Bloodrager for Crossblooded? (It would affect next-to-nothing at this level, other than giving me a penalty to will saves; the bloodlines that feel most appropriate are Fey, or Undead "plane of shadow"). I'm fine going either way on it, though if I crossblooded I'd probably also want to turn my reflex-save trait into a will save trait.

you can change

Misc - Item documented, with its own crunch, and bonus feats ( weapon prof ), etc

I'm not sure what you want for this right now given that our items are pretty basic. I said what I'm hoping my special item will become, but that's about it.

@Everybody else: If anybody is like, "Why does the carrying capacity say '100' rather than '100 Light' " for the spreadsheet, that was my doing. I put in a formula that will automatically tell you what your load is, so it needs those boxes to be just numbers.

I'll also probably be putting in a Skills sheet in the doc, but expect it to be a WIP for a bit.

Oh, I also second CaveToad's earlier comment about profiles not supporting tables. :-( But I think Paizo is still relatively small/focused on publishing stuff rather than tech stuff, so that would be my guess as to why it's not supported. Although I could be wrong about their size/focus; that was just my impression when I looked them up on glassdoor.

Ok, skills sheet is probably about as done as I'm going to make it. It's not as pretty as I would like, but it was a tradeoff between doing the math for you and making it look prettier.

Unless you know what you're doing please do not modify the following cells:
- Ability modifier
- Columns with your total skill bonus

Basically, I just don't want someone to mess up formulas or conditional formatting as those were tedious to set up. Which actually means you probably don't want to manually color stuff either as I haven't tested how that works with formatting.

I would suggest you go over your column and make sure you skill bonuses are correct. If it's not and it's something you don't know how to fix, let me know.

I'm also open to suggestions on improvement.

So intense! These spraedsheets should be copied by someone into a shareable template some day.

That skill section is -amazing-.

I've wanted to make my own google sheet for a character sheet for the longest... but have been a lazy bum. The fact that I use quite a few house rules when it comes to skills is a big reason for that. Another is things like spell ranges. Just having it automatically update your spell's ranges when you level is something that would be cool.

As a neat aside: Going through and filling in components and ranges was an enlightening experience. There are a ton of spells I didn't know where ranged, or that I didn't know didn't really have components. It's been worth it just to add to the hive mind :p

Also, I still don't understand the point of 'Artistry'. I'm just gonna stick to 'Craft' for it, as they're both still int skills. It makes me sad they didn't make Artistry a Charisma skill and let you take Clever Wordplay to turn it into an int skill.

It also makes me sad that there aren't traits to make charisma more valuable in the place of other stats. :( Not that Maks needs that, just that force of personality being used for other skills fits (like K(Planes)... which ironically doesn't make sense to me :p)

Artistry is essentially identical to Craft, except it doesn't create physical objects; splitting it into a new skill is mostly to satisfy the people who aren't sure where to put things (and saying "if you don't feel comfortable using craft to create non-physical items but profession feels weird, here's a middle ground"). IMO writing literature is much more int-based than charisma-based, although comedy is a bit tougher.

Ok, skills sheet is probably about as done as I'm going to make it. It's not as pretty as I would like, but it was a tradeoff between doing the math for you and making it look prettier.

Unless you know what you're doing please do not modify the following cells:
- Ability modifier
- Columns with your total skill bonus

Basically, I just don't want someone to mess up formulas or conditional formatting as those were tedious to set up. Which actually means you probably don't want to manually color stuff either as I haven't tested how that works with formatting.

I would suggest you go over your column and make sure you skill bonuses are correct. If it's not and it's something you don't know how to fix, let me know.

I'm also open to suggestions on improvement.

Tavros, this is beautiful! I'd been thinking about automating more of the sheet and doing a skills section, but I didn't have the time, and you've done a great job with it!

CaveToad wrote:

Misc - Item documented, with its own crunch, and bonus feats ( weapon prof ), etc

I'm not sure what you want for this right now given that our items are pretty basic. I said what I'm hoping my special item will become, but that's about it.

For now its largely that you have a small section devoted to the item. At this point its just an item that gives you proficiency in it if its a weapon. As you level and it awards you feat and other powers, those need to be documented, so that's why I would like a little spoiler for it.

I think that I have everything updated, aside from the stat rolls... as I wound up with all 18s and points to spare, I don't think showing the -exact- math matters :p

A quick study reveals that we can use other pages for 'data grabs' as it were. Thus, we can put strength on the page Data, then reference 'Data!' to pull from that page's information. So we can move the attributes and their mods to that page, thus removing them from the Skills sheet, if that's what you're referencing for needing to be made to look better.

I'm not sure exactly how the 'or' statements work at all, but I was able to replicate the result on 'data' by pulling from the skills page (and left the changes there so you could see how to do it).

Specifically, I don't understand the $WX$YZ part. Guess I should go read that now!

Edit: Ah, got it.

I love learning... :3

I get the feeling it won't be as friendly with copy-pasta, though...

That is how Excel works too. You can put all your ugly data in one tab/sheet, and have a main page to keep everything fancy and presentable and just use references to the other sheets. I believe you can even reference other workbooks, not sure how that works on google docs, they probably have the same feature though.

"if" statements are pretty easy. If I recall correctly (though it's been awhile, so I might be slightly off here, the format is:

if(condition, result if condition is true, result if condition is not true)

So "if(B5>5, "B5 is greater than 5, "B5 is not greater than 5")"

would display "B5 is greater than 5" if B5 is greater than 5, and if not, it will display "B5 is not greater than 5"

They only get confusing when you start to nest them...

Oh, and for copypasta, all you have to do is learn about static references.

basically, if you want to reference a specific cell, no matter where the formula is copied to, you use dollar signs. $B$5 will always reference B5, even if you move the formula around. You can do more complicated things with static references, too, but that's the most basic usage.

Yeah, I figured out If is If(function is true), then, else. Then I was confused by the Or, which is simple as well, and discovered that my confusion was due to $... which is basically just 'don't update this based on row or collumn, if I paste it'. Or at least that's what I think it's doing.

And yeah, it's just -that- simple to pull data. Very, very nice.

Now... is there some sort of secret to getting the thing to be my friend with pasting formulas all down a row, or do I really have to ctrl v in every row//column and then update each individual number?

Sounds about right with the $. I can break down the main formula for people.

=IF(OR($AE$10,D10>=1),B10*3*(D10>0)+C3+C10+D10,"X")

If (This skill can be used untrained OR you have a rank in it){
Do math
Math: (Is a class skill 1 for yes, 0 for no) * 3 * (has at least 1 rank, 1 for yes, 0 for no) + ability mod + misc mod + ranks
}
Else {
Skill is unusable, put an X.
}

The $AE$10 is there because the Untrained vs not info is in that column. Without it, if I tried to copy paste, it'd assume something like, "That column is 5 columns away from me" depending on where I was copy-pasting from.

As for "pretty," mostly what I mean is that I don't like how each person has 4 columns. Which yes, could be solved by putting that data in a different sheet, which I might do, but I think it only really makes sense if we plan on using that data for multiple sheets. So we'll see.

Also, to my knowledge, while Excel totally has a "copy down" type functionality, I don't think Google docs does. Although I could probably write something.... Maybe after work.

But I'm glad people seem to like the skills sheet! :-)

It is definitely very cool. :)

It's also given me a chance and a reason to play around with it.

I think having a single page for reference would be really useful, so long as we can make sure it's protected. Killing one sheet and everything exploding would be -bad-.

I've also hidden the formulas column on the spell tab that I've worked on so that you just see the number I pulled. It might be smart for me to go through and do conditional formatting so that it's easier for others to insert spells as they learn them... though I don't mind shifting new spells in by hand, personally, coloring and such can be tedious.

Edit: Actually, hiding away anything on that sheet might be somewhat annoying, other than the stats (which could be pulled for other things?). Having to jump to another sheet to change a value could be a pain.

Edit 2: Still playing with spell sheet. I think I've come up with something neat as a bonus.

Edit 3: Success! I moved the Caster Level section to something more easily accessible. Changing the number in the column next to 'Caster Level' will modify the ranges of all the listed spells. I'm not sure if this can be replicated to automate things like 'damage' or '#oftargets' though. I think just having a way to rapidly calculate Range by Caster Level is neat, even if we can't extend that to other information!

I'm a little confused about what's going on on the skills page. It kinda looks like Mlinzi's skills are under Tavros's name, but I'm not sure. Not all the names have the same number of columns under them, and I'm still trying to figure out what the formatting means, but if I'm right, I think you've got Mlinzi formatted as though he's got points in Heal when he doesn't.

EDIT: Oh, wait, I think I see what's going on a little better with the Mlinzi/Tavros confusion now. Those vertical lines are really confusing me.

EDIT: I still can't figure out what's going on with the conditional formatting. What do the green boxes signify?

Green Highlight is 'best at this'. Red Highlight is 'no. bad. you can't.'

Ah, that explains it. Thanks :)

Re: vertical lines- if you're talking about what I think, those are from copy pasting from the carrying capacity tab. I couldn't figure out how to make them where they actually belong. Although admittedly, I didn't try too hard.

I already fixed it :P

They seem to be fixed now, so no worries. :)

I've got it figured out now, I think. Looking at the skills tab, we're actually pretty good as far as party skills go. The only ones that none of us can even use are Kn (Local, History, Geography), none of which are very helpful to us right now, especially because of the time shift, Handle Animal, which none of us really needs, either (unless someone wants to teach their Animal Companion extra tricks) and Profession, which... yeah, those skills are generally useless in most games, even for what they do, and none of us really suck at any skills. Of course, we could always stand to do better with some of them, but I don't see any glaring holes right now.

I'll actually have Handle Animal next level, probably, by extension of Versatile Performance. :)

I also care about the missing knowledges, but they don't really make sense to have.

Yeah, I care about those Knowledges, too, but like you said, they don't make much sense to have right now. Also, with two bards in the group, all our Knowledge skills will be covered next level unless you both traded away Bardic Knowledge.

We did. Duettist does that. It was a -hard- trade, too. :(

The familiar just fits Makoto so well. I gave up a ton of my favorite parts of bard to do it, too...

We did. Duettist does that. It was a -hard- trade, too. :(

For me the only hard part was giving up Arcane Duelist... but I wanted a second puppeteer. Now I can control TWO unseen servants!

-sigh- Oh well. I know how it is with Bard. Base Bard is great, and so are a lot of the archetypes, but the archetypes all take away the best bits of base Bard.

Exactly that. I saw an opportunity to play a different bard from what I've played before (and bard is one of my favorite classes!), so I went with it. It hurts, because every choice I've made, I could see having gone the other way with it for Makoto.

Even without the bard stuff, we'll probably have those knowledge skills covered next level. At a minimum, I want to grab Kn(Local), and I'm fine grabbing the other knowledges if need be. Hmm...although I suppose I might want to leave a few skills with no ranks in them in preparation for when I eventually get a Headband of Int.

I'm thinking cartography would also be a useful skill to pick up.

Probably! Maks is going to gain a -lot- of capacity for making things when she hits level 3. (+12 in craft she has a single rank in, with mundane tools, +8 untrained)

What I will say: I'm not sure I'll be taking Craft Wondrous at 3rd. I might, but depending on when we get mythic will help a lot in determining the 'when' for Maks. :)

Also, I'm heading to face to face RP soon, methinks.

Unfortunately, Mlinzi has to be frugal with his skill points. I would really like to take Monkey Style all the way for thematic reasons, but it requires a ridiculous number of ranks in Climb. Once I've met those prerequisites, I can stop putting the ranks in Climb, at which point things will be a little better. When I get my first stat increase, I'll get another skill point (because 19 Int is just taunting me), but then I'll probably lock myself in to the skills I think are most important and go with those.

Also, thinking about future builds... I'm thinking that I may want to see just how fast I can get Mlinzi to be. If I go Aegis for Twin Mind, I can buff his speed, plus I'll be getting Haste and Fast Movement from two classes. If I take a cheese dip in Bloodrager I can pick up another +10, and if I use Twin Mind and Chawless to pick up Unchained Monk, I could really start getting up some insane speed. Considering the fact that I'll be getting Pounce eventually as a Rage Power, plus at least some of the Mobility chain, this could give Mlinzi more range than a ranged weapon, at least on land.

Running some quick calculations, let's say I get to 20 in Monk. I'll have 30 base move, +10 from Barbarian, and +60 from Monk, for a total of 100. Let's say I dip Bloodrager for another +10, and I get partway through Unchained Monk for +30, and I take Astral Skin from Aegis for an extra +10. That would let me move 150 feet in a single move action. Then throw on Haste for an extra +30, and I could potentially be moving 180 feet in a single move action, or 360 feet per round with a double-move. If I run, that's 720 feet per round (900 with the Run feat), fast enough to beat even the fastest cheetah, (81 mph without Run, 102 mph with it).

Clearly, this would be sub-optimal in a lot of ways, since Unchained Monk wouldn't be giving me too much, and I wouldn't get a chance to put all that speed to good use, but it would be super fun! How many times do you get to build a Pathfinder character that can run 100 miles per hour?

Bardic Knowledge is a sham anyway. +Level/2 is usually going to be worse than the bonuses you'd get as an Inquisitor/Mindchemist.

If you really want to be good at Knowledge, play a Lore Oracle and get an extra +20 to all knowledge skills. Oh yes. My level 4 Lore Oracle regularly rolls 40s on Knowledge checks. And when you consider that you add Knowledge (engineering) to attack rolls with siege weapons... well, I'm now regretting that I forgot about the Siege Gunner/Siege Mage/Lore Oracle character I wanted to play when I rolled up Teniel.

Local, History and Geography I avoided because they don't make much sense to start with. Mlinzi, you're already getting 8 skills/level (that's a normal rogue!), no need to close yourself off from options.

@Speed: Monk's speed boost is an enhancement bonus, so it doesn't stack with Haste, Longstrider or UCMonk. Barbarian does stack with monk, but RAW it doesn't stack with Bloodrager (since they both say "typical speed for race, +10 feet"). Aegis is badly-worded and untyped, making things a bit unclear. You're stuck at 100' speed.

Unchained Monk gives you a lot (oh that flurry, oh that flying kick), but it's probably not what you're looking for.