Serinbaal the Lands of Torment ("Dark Sun" Homebrew Pathfinder 1e)

Game Master Sebecloki

I like the Numenara game also.

Aye, if your familiar isn't obviously joining you, Cae has no reason to affect it. Also, the only things Vyse has done are turn invisible and sing.

Sustaining a curse effect -- cackling -- is not 'just singing', any more than a bard's bardic performance is. However, has it been ruled that one witch (the familiar) is able to sustain the curses of another witch's hexes (the spellcaster)? I understand the argument in both directions -- that on the one hand, the familiar is 'part of the master', at the very least enough so that they can deliver touch spells, but on the other hand, familiars don't typically have class levels, and so 'sustain my master's hexes' (when the cackle hex doesn't call out 'all hexes', but instead says the witch's own) might fall a bit further out of that reading than normal.

Also, is this supposed to be Vyse? The page 'Vyse the Lizard' doesn't exist.

Mythic Class Ability: Mythic Hex-Cackle: The witch's familiar can cackle as a standard action, which functions as if the witch had cackled. from Mythic Hero Codex.

The singing is a flavor change cleared by the DM as it is still an audible component, the key factor of Cackle. That is the reason I do my best to list the mechanical actions as well.

Vyse: Thanks for pointing this out. I updated her page when I took Improved Familiar, but not the link on my sheet.

Ah. My personal policy is to indicate all the things that are allowing me to do all the stuff. And it may be 'singing', but again, it's 'only' singing the way bardic performances are 'only' singing (or whatever). My point isn't with the flavor change, my point is with the fact that it's offensive.

Anyhow, fight over!

I do find it kind of weird that a lot of your abilities are offensive -- interfering with an opponent -- without requiring attacks OR allowing for saves, i.e. no defense.

Aye, the character is designed to be a crazy support character as a buffer/debuffer. I don't think I have actually done any direct damage in this campaign.

Understood, but while a buff doesn't require a saving throw, so far as I can tell, penalties pretty much universally require some manner of attack against their AC or allow a save against the utilized ability. I just find it a very peculiar variance in what's otherwise a pretty standardized system.

I don't understand. Each ability I used other than Weal & Woe had an opposed save; Evil Eye, Misfortune, and Restless Slumber. Are you saying that you think Cackle should allow a new save on its affected hexes?

Understood, but while a buff doesn't require a saving throw, so far as I can tell, penalties pretty much universally require some manner of attack against their AC or allow a save against the utilized ability. I just find it a very peculiar variance in what's otherwise a pretty standardized system.

Curious what you're talking about here. Did you not fail a saving throw against Slumber to put you to sleep? And you passed your prior save, didn't you?

What did Cae use against you that didn't allow a save or attack roll?

Actually, it's specifically the Weal & Woe of which I was speaking.

Free-Weal & Woe(-4 on Restless Slumber Save, if helpful)

This penalty does not apparently allow a save. Granted, that didn't actually apply to the second roll (stupid cut-and-paste), and the roll would still fail. Which is fine, but at least IMO, clarification is always to the good.

Please don't think I'm b~&+$ing about this; forcing multiple save-or-die rolls is clearly a winning tactic. ;) It's just useful to actually have full information on everything; I DID feel like I had to look up everything that was happening.

And unlike pretty much everything else that is offensive, I do think it useful to point out that a number of the hexes don't indicate anything about how their ability works, e.g. a curse effect, a mind-affecting effect, a necromantic or enchantment effect, etc. Some are clearly labeled, but some aren't, which leaves questions open as to what saving throw bonuses work against them. Would being immune to fear work against the evil eye -- fear being which, traditionally, is what makes 'the Evil Eye' function? It's just a bunch of unanswered questions that this fight made me wonder about.

For the general, I try to include relevant information such as save types and DCs, but I can see where that would be frustrating. It is a balance for me to try to be clear and not have each post be too long, which I am already self-conscious about. For example, Weal & Woe has 2 feats and 2 class abilities that affect it. To list each when it can be summed up as "-4 to save, if helpful" seems more efficient to me, especially considering the amount of abilities that are flying around in a game like this.

To the specific, Evil Eye is a mind-affecting effect, which is reflected on my sheet.

That's why I generally use spoilers for anything that isn't actual IC stuff. ;) Reads better too, at least IMO. ;)

Seems like a lot of meta-knowledge being thrown around.

Referring to ... ?

Also, another question for the GM. Looking at the 'Share Spells' feat (and, theoretically, the 'Special Delivery' which follows that, as well as feats like 'Distant Spell Link'), it requires 'the ability to share spells with an animal companion, eidolon, familiar, or phantom'. Would being the familiar in this case function for this prerequisite? Meaning that a familiar could then cast spells with a target of 'you' on their master.

I should point out that, while she's gotten worse, this isn't a 180 degree turn, she's never been a 'good' person. She's basically a very rigid lawful neutral that turned lawful evil, and still think's she's lawful neutral in her own mind, just like she think she's a 'gray mage' instead of a defiler (which is what she actually is, just a weird kind of defiler, but she definitely isn't walking any kind of 'third path' or whatever!).

Very reasonable, but Cae has an idealized image of her in his head and is struggling with the evidence in front of him. It is very jarring for him and probably only obvious because of the time spent apart. Even though Raxus warned him, Cae dismissed it easily enough. Sometimes people are dumb or have big blind spots. Unfortunately for Cae, Arsione is his.

No, that's kind of the character arc I was expecting :) I'm just trying to flesh things out a bit.

Excellent, I hope it is as fun for you to play out as it is for me.

I've been looking forward to introducing Arsinoe and her compatriots for a while -- they're a really interesting combination of deluded self righteousness and unparalleled ruthlessness. You haven't even seen the worst of what they're up to yet, or their allies.

Is this going to be another fight so quickly?
Thought the conses was to further the story and not have a long fight for some time?
And this is probably even a PvP fight?

I don't think this is going to actually devolve into combat (or at least that's not what I'm intending), but now that people are taking 'attack-like' actions, we need to have an order of sequence to resolve actions.

Weeeell ... it's primarily Arsione who's doing the attack-like actions. Not to mention she's basically gone Evil Supervillian on us. (Well, on the rest of everyone; I just met her. Of course, now that I've met her, she's On The List, but hey ...)

On a not-unrelated question, if push comes to shove, what would be the AC for the 'cage' on top of the staff -- effectively, the AC for the anti-magic beetles inside the cage?

Well, she came on a mission, this can turn out several ways. She'd be happy to invite you back to her digs if you'd at least pretend to be interested in what she's selling.

Their AC would be 82 (+8 size (fine), +10 Dex, +60 natural +2 partial cover).

Man. Melee, AC, and saves can get so boosted, and there's no version of the Mythic HOPF Weapon Finesse to add so much to your attack. Meh. The little buggers are in their cage. Oh, is there a roll to be made -- based on Cae's 'fading' and 'return' from her -- to guess what the zone of null magic is?

I didn't just make up that number -- the fluff explanation is the beetles of shefqat are epic devastator vermin from a huge underground ecosystem that have been artificially miniaturized via the black rays of the Stoneburner in the adamantine pyramid.

The zone of anti-magic has the footprint of a colossal (long) creature, including reach, around the beetles of shefqat. In this case, several dozen are confined to a cage, so they have a 110' radius around Arisone, or a 220 ft. oblong. See This diagram.

Also, the sorcerer kings in this setting are like the equivalent of 80th level, so they need to be that tough to make any sense.

So, Slavathras is talking a bit of sense to Rokan telepathically, but then others are being egged on towards more PvP. Are we looking to create bodies before getting back on track with the original arc?

I don't think this is going to actually devolve into combat (or at least that's not what I'm intending), but now that people are taking 'attack-like' actions, we need to have an order of sequence to resolve actions.

I have to agree with Gotak. None of us have taken any sort of 'attack-like action'. The only invoking of any sort of rules/mechanics since the duel ended was Hamza shadow stepping away.

Your NPC initiated a combat action by forcibly trying to shut that down.

All the PCs have tried to do is avoid combat via parley, and the discussion of the greater points of good/evil/law/chaos.

If one of us did something hostile, by all means, please point it out. I am at a loss otherwise.

A bit more specifically: it's unclear what "attack-like actions" anybody but the two have taken, and the bard is urging Hamza to "play along" with the escalation, but then hope that she'll be friendly to talk after the chaos?

Sebecloki wrote:

I don't think this is going to actually devolve into combat (or at least that's not what I'm intending), but now that people are taking 'attack-like' actions, we need to have an order of sequence to resolve actions.

I have to agree with Gotak. None of us have taken any sort of 'attack-like action'. The only invoking of any sort of rules/mechanics since the duel ended was Hamza shadow stepping away.

Your NPC initiated a combat action by forcibly trying to shut that down.

All the PCs have tried to do is avoid combat via parley, and the discussion of the greater points of good/evil/law/chaos.

If one of us did something hostile, by all means, please point it out. I am at a loss otherwise.

I think we're just getting wires crossed then because of the online environment and a lack of other nonverbal cues. I'm not necessarily trying to steer this towards a combat, I'm playing the NPC how I think they would react in a situation -- she would like to have the upper hand against what she can already assume are magically gifted interlocutors while she's negotiating, and will try to seize that advantage if possible to press her own interests. That required us to adjudicate who acted first. She's aggressive but not necessarily spoiling for a fight.

A bit more specifically: it's unclear what "attack-like actions" anybody but the two have taken, and the bard is urging Hamza to "play along" with the escalation, but then hope that she'll be friendly to talk after the chaos?

Read what Slavathras actually said again -- he didn't say anything about helping the Balicans kill the tareks, which is what your post implies.

all I mean by attack like actions is we're getting into situations where two characters are trying to do things that are advantageous for themselves and opposed to someone else. Even if they're not trying to cause combat damage, that's an opposed situation where we then have to decide who goes first fairly. That's all I meant, not that the pcs were preparing fire balls or something.

Ahh, all good. Things can easily get confused online. That's why I asked, to clear stuff up.

I don’t think Rokan and Arsione can communicate with each other — at least not via magic or psionics. The latter is at the center of a 110’ radius null zone. So mundane methods only. (Times like this bonded mind really comes into its own. ;) )

I don’t think Rokan and Arsione can communicate with each other — at least not via magic or psionics. The latter is at the center of a 110’ radius null zone. So mundane methods only. (Times like this bonded mind really comes into its own. ;) )

Yeah, I honestly forgot, lot's going on here mechanically. We'll say they use Send Secret message or something else. Can Rokan please roll for that instead?

Or just decide to communicate openly.

Oh yeah -- reminded: Hero Points. Are these a thing in this campaign? If so, what quantity are we looking at for us new folk? 1/2 level, less? 1?

Oh yeah -- reminded: Hero Points. Are these a thing in this campaign? If so, what quantity are we looking at for us new folk? 1/2 level, less? 1?

They do exist, I have a file where I combined the 3.5 and PF rules to basically give more points and more stuff to do w/ them. I'm done with my semester now, and through my 70 hour weeks I think, so I should have some time next week to clean up a final presentation of the build rules with google docs files for all that stuff. I posted one a while ago that was combined, but I think it will be better to separate the different sections out.

great, so what's the build concept? What's my best attack, what is he built to do?

EDIT: Also, does anyone else want to weigh in, give me ideas? I think there are some rogue talents still to pick, for example.

Ya, I didn't want to pick rogue talents, cause I imagine you're familiar with those and know what they can do.

As far as the build concept goes, you're basically an earth elemental; you can earthglide and become large (huge at 16th level) can use an action to have tremorsense. You can also shape stone (basically unlimited uses of stone shape) and move earth around.

Your Kinetic blasts can ignore cover (snaking), attack at up to 480' range (extreme range), fight in melee (kinetic blade), and deal pretty decent damage:

Earth does a little over 50 a hit on average, and metal blast does about 75 on average. Metal blast can also bypass material dr (cold iron, silver, adamantine).

You're also a pretty decent unarmed combatant, doing about 30 a hit on average.

You have decent defenses (including up to DR 10/adamantine, if you're willing to spend the burn on it). Between favored class and toughness and a 19 con mod, you'll have a stupidly high amount of WP/VP.

Out of combat, you are a superb trapfinder/dealer with:

You have +38 to perception and 34 to disable device. As a matter of fact, most of your skills have great bonuses (about 30 as a minimum).

I didn't calculate it out, but you can also carry a ton of stuff.

You can also cast Overland Flight on yourself like 3 times a day.

BUMP! Come on friends, we have a good thing going here, let's not lose momentum now...

I don't want to railroad stuff -- but it seems like a big oversight that no one's mentioned their connection to trade yet. Hamza is part of a merchant house in Raam, and Rokan is operating on behalf of a merchant house as well.

Arsione's family are merchants and would be very interested to talk with other merchants.

Also, weren't a couple people all about finding this destroyed caravan?

Also, weren't a couple people all about finding this destroyed caravan?

Yeah, Hamza went off to investigate, but I wasn't feel all that well the last couple of days. Nothing serious, just off. Spent yesterday just chilling, and unlocking the Nightborne race in WoW.

I will reply later today. It's a gorgeous, beautiful day out(first we've had in about a week), so my mom and I are gonna make a dump run, and do some outdoor work.

Continent of Hargalor

I updated my world map at the above link -- you can see where the tablelands is, and how it relates to the other areas of the world that have been mentioned -- the merchant prince city-states are designated to the east across the sea of silt.

The rest of the continent is worse than the Tablelands. The south is dominated by the tarek kingdoms of the Dark Triad and Kareth-Scra.

The furthest south are the Elemental city-states of Maalu, which are governed by sorcerer-king like Elemental Lords (advanced being druids and clerics).

The Lands of Thirst are a huge wasteland between Hargalor and the Pole of Carbon. They are dominated by the Dry Glacier and cyclopean ruins.

Gnorm to the north is the Changing Land is a land of lycanthropes and shifters.

The Black Plains and the C'haun Confederation are enormous nomadic areas, the latter are cannibals.

Bastesia is dominated by a Litorian culture that is distinguished by runic magic.

Tyraax is a land of blood magic and ur-priests. It is the decayed remnant of the continent's former holy land during the Dawn Age. Now, it is littered with empty temples, the bones of the gods, and is dominated by cults dedicated to drawing power from the residual divine powers left in the territory -- the people also commonly worship the xxyth, entities of chaos created by the departed overgod Temulea.

Hamza Mīnakshi wrote:

At best, it takes 10 minutes, am I allowed to interrupt him while he's attempting to coerce me?

Doesn't say anything about being able to interrupt.

Quote:

Coerce Opponent

Source PPC:SpyHB

Sometimes you need to cow someone into submission for more than just a few hours.

Action: Coercing a target into acting friendly for hours takes 1d4 × 10 minutes. Coercing a target into acting friendly for days requires you to successfully use coercion at least once per week for 1d6 weeks without failing any Intimidate checks against the target during that time.

Try Again: You can’t attempt long-term coercion against the same target again for 1 week.

Check: By spending more time threatening or harassing a target, you can attempt to force a creature to act friendly toward you for 1d6 hours + 1 hour for every 5 points by which you exceed the DC. If you succeed at such a check against the same target at least once per week for 1d6 weeks (without ever failing any Intimidate checks against the target during that time), the duration of the coercion increases to 2d8 days. Coercion is overt, not subtle, and in most cases using coercion against a creature is an evil act.

A coerced target acts as though friendly toward you even when you aren’t around, but the aid offered remains grudging at best. The target’s true attitude is hostile, and if the target believes it can take an action to hinder you that can’t be traced back to it, it’s likely to take such opportunities.

Creatures attempting to enlist its aid against you can often do so by convincing the target they are able to protect it from your wrath, using the normal Diplomacy rules.

The target’s true attitude is hostile ...

If the person doing the coercion is not in some clearly-established position of power over the other -- by physical violence, blackmail, economic/employment threat, etc. -- then this really loses its teeth, because there's otherwise no reason for Person B to hang around and listen to Person A try to coerce them; they can walk away, and if Person A can't (or won't) follow, the coercion automatically fails.

Think of the coercion like a spell with a casting time of 10-40 minutes and a range of, basically, touch -- one in which the target has to be there the entire time for the spell to work. If the target can get away from you (and as said above, 'get away' is more a matter of the intimidator being unable or unwilling to follow), then the spell's going to fail.

In brief, the coercion function isn't a good choice if you're hiding and looking for friends. Diplomacy (to get on their good side), Sense Motive and Bluff (to find out who they prefer and if necessary pretend that's what you are), or the 'Influence Attitude' function of Intimidate would all be more appropriate for someone hiding in a false bottom or whatever. IIRC, as these are all basically going for a fast, short change in attitude, they all take a minute, but that's far better than 10-40m.

Sebecloki wrote:

Hamza Mīnakshi wrote:

At best, it takes 10 minutes, am I allowed to interrupt him while he's attempting to coerce me?

Doesn't say anything about being able to interrupt.

Quote:

Coerce Opponent

Source PPC:SpyHB

Sometimes you need to cow someone into submission for more than just a few hours.

Action: Coercing a target into acting friendly for hours takes 1d4 × 10 minutes. Coercing a target into acting friendly for days requires you to successfully use coercion at least once per week for 1d6 weeks without failing any Intimidate checks against the target during that time.

Try Again: You can’t attempt long-term coercion against the same target again for 1 week.

Check: By spending more time threatening or harassing a target, you can attempt to force a creature to act friendly toward you for 1d6 hours + 1 hour for every 5 points by which you exceed the DC. If you succeed at such a check against the same target at least once per week for 1d6 weeks (without ever failing any Intimidate checks against the target during that time), the duration of the coercion increases to 2d8 days. Coercion is overt, not subtle, and in most cases using coercion against a creature is an evil act.

A coerced target acts as though friendly toward you even when you aren’t around, but the aid offered remains grudging at best. The target’s true attitude is hostile, and if the target believes it can take an action to hinder you that can’t be traced back to it, it’s likely to take such opportunities.

Creatures attempting to enlist its aid against you can often do so by convincing the target they are able to protect it from your wrath, using the normal Diplomacy rules.

As usual, this relies on generally-realistic social interactions. If you want to browbeat/coerce someone, you have to be able to continue to do so; they can't be allowed to get away from you, whether that's keeping them in a corner (and being able to keep them in the corner, which...

I can see the argument, but that's not what RAW says as far as I can see. If we're going to go with this view, then Glimmerscale is going to use a different function of Intimidate, because that wasn't the understanding I was working with when I posted, I'll change my post to reflect that.

World Map

Here's an updated worldmap so you can see how some of the areas mentioned relate to eachother. The entirety of the planet is a little bigger than earth, 26640-32880 miles in diameter instead of 24,000. The two main continents here are each about double the size of north america (roughly 5,000 miles wide and high). The Pole of Carbon is a massive antarctic area which could swallow both of these major land masses whole.

There is one other essentially uninhabitable continent on the opposite side of the planet, and largely in the northern hemisphere. This map is most of one side of the globe -- there is another 3,000 or miles in the north that contains the Pole of Salt. This pole is connected to the third continent on the opposite side.

I can see the argument, but that's not what RAW says as far as I can see. If we're going to go with this view, then Glimmerscale is going to use a different function of Intimidate, because that wasn't the understanding I was working with when I posted, I'll change my post to reflect that.

Not everything needs to be strictly RAW, in fact in many cases, going purely by RAW is a mistake. That's why RAI(Rules As Intended) is often used.

I updated my post anyway to do something different; carry on.

My puppers hurt her leg tonight. We thought it was broken at first, but she's been able to walk on it a little, albeit with a noticeable limp.

I won't be posting tonight, and we'll see how things go tomorrow after we take her to the vet in the morning.

Hope your puppy is alright -- my frenchie is my baby, so I know well doggie parent anxiety. I could barely sleep the night he stayed over at the vet because of indigestion problems.