Korvosan Knights (Inactive)

Game Master Olondir

Doh tried to post from memory but not proficient enough with 5e to pull that off, pretty sure you are right PA

Yup! What makes it tricky is how Monsters don't follow that rule.

Actually, I don't think that is the case. Looking closely at the rules, it only specifically states that you do not add ability bonus to damage for Two-Weapon Fighting. Other bonus actions, such as Frenzy (from Barbarian) or the bonus unarmed strike (for monks) do not specify. I think that they are not intended to be without ability bonus, but it is vague enough that it could be a DM's call situation.

Anyway, just my 2 cp... :)

I haven't read the MM, so I'm not sure if monsters have any specific clauses. I think beasts have stuff like Multi-attack though, for Druid forms.

Actually, I don't think that is the case. Looking closely at the rules, it only specifically states that you do not add ability bonus to damage for Two-Weapon Fighting. Other bonus actions, such as Frenzy (from Barbarian) or the bonus unarmed strike (for monks) do not specify. I think that they are not intended to be without ability bonus, but it is vague enough that it could be a DM's call situation.

Anyway, just my 2 cp... :)

No no that's right. That's correct for NPCs using specific two-weapon fighting actions, but monsters or NPCs (such as the Thug we're fighting right now) which have an action called "Multiattack" that is tricky because it's different.

I was alluding to that special action where both of the Thug's attacks are made using his single "Attack" action and thus both get the Stat bonus! It is not dual weapon fighting nor is the second attack done using his bonus action. Several beasts have similar stipulations for comboing bite+claw attacks in the same round (which is exactly as Petty Alchemy referred).

I hope that clears things up!

Actually, I was referring to Jiang's bonus unarmed attack. I think he gets to add his ability score modifier to damage. Same as a barbarian would still get to add his ability score mod for his Frenzy bonus attack.

Only Two Weapon Fighting is limited, in my humble opinion, of course. ;)

He would if he used Flurry I believe, but his second attack was made with the TWF bonus action (as far as I know).

I was intending flurry, forgot to state that out right

-Posted with Wayfinder

So the provision around no off hand bonus is specific to TWF but the monk section seems to refer to it specifically as another attack, simply unarmed and contingent on using unarmed/monk weapon. Given that they stripped the extra attacks from monk post playtest it seems on par to Ranger to keep the ability damage but YMMV. My 2 cp

Ahh, I see what you mean, the third bullet point in the Martial Arts ability. Hadn't spotted that before. You may be right then. So the Monk could do 4 attacks all with mod to damage at lvl2, dang, that's pretty bursty.

Ahh, I see what you mean, the third bullet point in the Martial Arts ability. Hadn't spotted that before. You may be right then. So the Monk could do 4 attacks all with mod to damage at lvl2, dang, that's pretty bursty.

Okay so Flurry is a bonus action, as is the Martial Arts extra attack, so you don't stack for 4 attacks. That makes more sense.

Hey wow I never noticed that. I admit no one has ever played a monk nor berserker before. You'd definitely get that extra damage because that isn't two weapon fighting but a particular action. (I guess war clerics get it too..)

My laptop passed away tonight and away without access to my PC till tomorrow. All I have tonight is my phone so my post will be in the morning.

Apologies all!

^_^ I know, I love this system, and all of its nuances... It's a good learning experience!

Yah, so far I feel like it walks the line of have nuance but being overall a lot simpler to think your way through. So far. Let's talk in a couple years ;p

Also, you don't go into negatives anymore. You are at 0, and make death saves every round. 3 successes and you stabilize, 3 failures and you die. DC 10 d20 roll. If you roll a natural 20, you regain 1 hp and therefore awaken, if you roll a natural 1, it counts as 2 failures.

:) Good luck!

Oh yeah right! I knew that but man some habits die hard! LOL

Sorry about not posting this morning. No reprieve for the righteous, right?

Yeah you just go to 0, Jiang! It's one of the hardest/strangest mechanics of 5e.

I'm in a position of both being scared as well as appreciating the irony that, after spending a week to work on encounter balance, this CR 1/2 guy just crits twice in a row on two of you making this a desperate fight!

Yep, a TPKO on fight 1. Well, Tybalt is still up.

The adversary defined mortality in a single, well-placed strike.

*+18 Stress*

*Petty Alchemy's resolve is being tested!*

Watch out for those thugs, I went back and counted and apparently they have more than 26 hitpoints. Either that or some resistance to Force or Necrotic damage. :(

DM, you're not required to reply to that, thats over-the-table talk for players. :P

Alright, so I think going forward would take Tybalt a few rounds given his caution and thus a few days posting time, I just want to put out his options as I see them when he does discover the grisly scene.

Option A: Attack AKA Suicide.
Even if he gets a good hit in and finishes off a thug, he's still got the elf and the houndmaster to deal with.
The rogue is not a class that has good chances in solo combat, let alone solo+outnumbered combat.
Guerrilla warfare *might* work, but you guys are bleeding out now, plus could be used as hostages.

Option B: We negotiate.
If you guys stabilize, Tybalt could try to buy you guys back with the pauper's sack of drugs/coin. The thugs would likely recognized they're being paid back with their own goods and not take kindly to it. Tybalt is not one of those silvertongued rogues that could smooth things over easily.

Option C: Cut losses/vendetta
Tybalt flees after seeing his sister painting the floorboards red, then visits Balston when he sleeps to pay him back in kind.

---

I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking here. I just don't see an out for the party from here on in. Either I join the TPK, or become the sole survivor. Either way...what happens to the campaign? Or should we just play this out, as there could be stuff to discover that drastically changes the current paradigm?

Well, I'd say Tybalt probably wouldn't charge in suicidally. I don't see an out for the rest of us either (and I just died) but perhaps the dice will be kinder to Jiang and Roakkard, allowing Tybalt to save the day.

Regardless, I think Tybalt should bide his time and see what happens, as he'll just end up on the floor with the rest of us otherwise - too much to fight one on one and the dice are too much against us this time around.

If you take the bag with you though - pretty soon the whole underworld will be on the lookout for Omar Tybalt!

Three crits, jeez...

Well, Tybalt's face hasn't been seen by the Pauper, though he's not really a robber type.

Also, Roakkard wasn't crit, and actually, shouldn't he still be up? It looked like he got hit for 7 and 7, but was parrying 6. So he should be at 1/9, if I'm not mistaken?

I am at 1 hp then.... if the parry was successful. (Wow, life saving maneuver - the dice are kindasorta on my side for that one.)

As you took damage you'd have to roll some sort of concentration on the Hex, right? I'm not fully versed in the 5e casting intricacies yet.

Long are the lists of those who would seek revenge against these men and those who guide them. Anyone who survives will just help nurse the next set of grudge holders to their confrontation with injustice...no lie, I'l play a wizard. The campaign endures, this is old fashioned D&D ;)

Good point. I'll look up concentration rules real quick. I'm not well versed in 5e either at the moment. Yes, it's a Constitution Save, DC 10 in this case.

Well, Tybalt's face hasn't been seen by the Pauper, though he's not really a robber type.

Yeah, I don't see him as a robber either. But I do see him as an opportunist, who has something that the bad guys want...

...no lie, I'l play a wizard. The campaign endures, this is old fashioned D&D ;)

Cool! We're in need of healing and face-stabbyness, so perhaps I'll play an avenger paladin of Saranae, extremely displeased that her god's temple is being used as a drug front. Kind of batman of Korvosa, with Juliet's personality, which I was just trying on and getting to enjoy.

Old fashioned D&D indeed!

Oh boy, that turned deadly in a pinch, didn't it? Oooh...

One day you think you are taking out thugs, suddenly they turn into grenade elementals...classic. :p

Olondir wrote:

The adversary defined mortality in a single, well-placed strike.

*+18 Stress*

*Petty Alchemy's resolve is being tested!*

Hahahaha I'm glad you got that reference. I love that game and it's narrator. I've been playing a lot of DD as of late and this horrific bloodbath of an initial fight made it feel appropriate. :)

Roakkard, you're totally right about the Thug. The Thug is from the back of the Monster Manual in the NPC statblock appendix (A CR 1/2, no less). He has a monstrous amount of HP, but a very low armor class. His lucky critical hits, the party's lack of healing, and Tybalt not being with you guys was just a perfect storm of factors that led to this most unfortunate outcome. Also I am sorry I miscalculated your HP after the blow and parry!

Petty Alchemy, thank you for that post describing options. It's so strange and I'm almost in a state of shock that this game took such a bad turn in the first instance of fighting!

I'm feeling particularly gloomy about the outcome of that fight. We all came into this game as strangers with the same interest in rolling dice and telling a shared story and, within the first fight, I killed at least one character. Ouch, right? Fighting Chicken assuredly spent a lot of time thinking and crafting Juliet and her concept. I feel like I let Fighting Chicken, myself, and everyone else down in a way. I feel like I didn't hold up my end of the RPG bargain in a way.

I'm definitely down for continuing the game, but I'm not sure how we want to incorporate everyone again.

I'm open to the idea that we sort of fiat Tybalt and Roakkard out of the mission as descriptively as you two would want. Roakkard's escape would be assumed successful and Tybalt would have some narrative freedom in how and what he does. Additionally, Jiang, could be alive from his death saving throws, perhaps wakes up healed by the elderly Priest of Sarenrae and his acolyte?

So before I update the next round of IC posts, what do we want to do?

Well, as a DM, I have a certain structure that's been well regarded by my players over the years, however with 5e, I understand there's a slightly different mechanic. Since attack bonuses never get much higher than +6 or +7 not including Strength or Dexterity modifiers (the proficiency bonus, as it were), and ACs are generally lower than previous editions of the game, it seems that the main method of defeating an opponent is wearing down their hp.

That being, said, I've found some success in sticking with the same method I've used before. Underlings should go down in 1 to 2 successful hits. Bosses should take a number of hits equal to the number of players, and generally get that many hits in. Recurring Villains have a number of hits equal to double the number of players, and get in more good hits than bosses before escaping to return again another day.

Not saying that's what you should do, but it might help balance out the game if there appears to be a heavy unbalance in some way or other.

There are a lot of heavy-hitters in 5e. Bugbears, for example, a CR 1 creature, attack with a +4 to hit, and can potentially do 2d8+2+2d6 damage in melee the first round of combat if they get a surprise round. Needless to say, this can be lethal to 1st or 2nd level characters. They also have 5 hit dice, and an average of 27 hitpoints. (roughly 3 hits from PC's) So there's a bit of an attack/hitdice/hitpoint economy going on. Sadly, I do not think there is much advice for balancing this economy in the DMG. But I think there's other information out there that can help with that strange balancing act.

Add me on Steamster if you like, guys!

I think you guys are all swell people, and the pacing has been very healthy , so I'd also want to continue.

That said, I'm also wondering if I should bring in a new character. I've got two angles of concern.

tl;dr: I'm not sure that playing Tybalt would be the healthiest thing RP-wise without Juliet, or combat-wise (fighting on two fronts rather than a single consolidated force).
I'm leaning towards retiring him (though it would be cool if he continued his private war on Gaedren, picking targets of opportunity to assassinate in revenge...maybe making cameos at the harrow dealer's house or something later on). My replacement would probably be a Barbarian or a Bard.

Side note: I've forgotten what the conclusion on Short/Long rests was. Are we running them at normal 1hr/8hr, or are they extended to 1d/7d?

What's DD?

I'd certainly like to continue, and I don't think you should feel too gloomy, Olondir - this seems to be pretty a swingy game and your dice are unseasonably hot. In my kingmaker game we had the first fight of the game result in a near TPK - 3 deaths, one capture, one ran. In that game we were tactically sound, set up an ambush, and still lost due to bad dice rolls. It happens, and I'll use Juliet, or her backstory at least, in another game in the future, I'm sure.

As for integrating my new character, I figure she is hanging out front of the drug house, watched the party go in, saw some of them come out, and maybe pieced together that there was a fight. She's been watching the drug house for awhile now and knows she could use some allies. So it is just a matter of her following the party back to where they recoup, or being spotted along the way. If Jiang dies, the replacement character could be with my new character.

As for Tybalt, my character is going to resemble Juliet a bit, as I was enjoying the character. Perhaps, in his guilt about not saving his sister, Tybalt sees a lot of Juliet in this new character, and new character becomes a surrogate in a way?

Or, Ty doesn't know that Juliet is dead. With the rescue mission on, by the time it is over, Tybalt vows over his sister's body that he'll not let his new companions, who he's bonded with over blood, suffer the same fate?

I dunno, I like the character, and would like to see him stick around.

I was planning on paladin for the healing and front-liner ability (especially if Jiang dies), but if characters get switched up a lot, I've got other concepts - a pretty interesting warlock idea, and a rogue as well. So, I can adjust to what you all want to do!

Okay, not to tell you how to do your thing, Olondir, but think about this possibility, especially if Jiang manages to pull through.

--

Juliet awakens with a start, the sounds of a Varisian fiddle working furiously up to the crescendo of the wanderers' favorite, A Starry Night. She seems to be surrounded by her mother's (?) people and in a caravan of old make, a clear night's sky stretching out above her.

The crackle and pop of the night's fire, as well as the laughter of a dancing woman spinning around it, her colorful scarf flashing with movement, brings her from her reverie. There is something familiar about her, but she cannot place it. The woman, in her late 30s, maybe mid 40s at most, spins to plop down unceremoniously next to the young fencer.

"Dearie, it is not yer time yet... ye've got quite a bit more to do!" the woman says as she brushes a strand of hair from Juliet's face.

"Ecatarina!" a voice calls out from across the camp, "Surely, ye're not done yet!"

The woman flashes Juliet a wide grin, "Nae, not by a longshot, laddie!"

Ecatarina... that was my mother's name...

--

Desna smiles on her children, and her destiny is not yet fulfilled...

Whattaya think?

Tybalt was heading back to check the party's progress/help them out, so he'd definitely see Juliet's body.

I'll think about it, though I don't see Tybalt as the type to quickly replace one of his only friends, since he's especially cautious about opening up. Maybe it could make some sense.

Hey Roakkard-- your system of hits really reminds me of Savage World's wounds in a way. Where average bad guys have a "wound" of damage before they go down and boss monsters have the same HP as a PC would. I like that idea for real life play, but if there's ever a place for tracking a lot of on-going effects and HP values in an RPG-- it's in the medium of Play-by-Posts. The Thug is definitely an outlier in terms of HP pool for CR 1/2 monsters. Orcs, Lizardfolk, and a few others make up that range and Thugs have far lower AC but much much higher hit point pools. We took down the CR 1/8 dog and CR 1/4 Scoundrel (an NPC statblock I made up) but that CR 1/2 Thug is just a wrecking ball.

I will probably stick to the numbers, but I'd like to know more about how you do it. Do you typically just adjust wounds for the pace and strenuousness of any given battle?

In 5e it is expected that a single monster of CR equal to the party's EPL is a medium encounter. 5e fights are more "swingy" indeed! The fact we don't have a way to get back on your feat after hitting 0 hurts a lot.

I feel you on the retiring of Tybalt.

Aeshuura gave me an idea. What if Desna sends Jules back to the material plane as a Paladin? Expanding on Aeshuura's tale.. perhaps death has infused her with a divine connection!

I'd leave that open. I totally understand if a character dies they should respectfully stay that way.

Anyhow, short and long rest time is the standard 1-2 hours and 8 hours respectively.

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

Lastly, DD is this game called "Darkest Dungeon." It's a Gothic Horror Adventure Troupe Manager game. It's a rogue-like with dungeon crawls and a strong focus on resource management. Torches, food, and even your hero's sanity and stress must be managed or they'll develop afflictions requiring a trip to the town's sanatorium. The artstyle, music, and narrator voice acting are superb.

My mistake on the playtest info, I looked up my sheet and we were all lvl 5. It didn't make much of a difference in the face of the Wail though.

I am just glad to be able to contribute... ^_^

EDIT: Plus, Paladins still get a Fighting Style, so duelist will still work! ;)

For my part I think the "swingyness" of 5e harkens back to the days of "yore" where sometimes s#@# did not go well. The older system tended to disabuse players of their "special snowflake" status....not that I dislike being relevant and keeping my characters alive, mind you, just that it wasn't as much of a part of the structure of the game IMO.

I tend to take character death well if it is justly earned and it totally was in this case. A bit brutal and unfortunate, but justly earned ;p

For me Jiang living after what he just did to that thug seems out of sync. Roakkard retreats (which he should if he values his life) then that thug stabs Jiang in the gut a few times. There is nothing about him as presented that would make me think otherwise unless Jiang wakes up suspended from a rafter being tortured or something, lol.

Like I said upthread, that fortuneteller finds a few more folks who were wronged. There has to be more than just one parties worth and having two newbies join in with a couple of folks (or one if Tybalt exists stage left) just adds serious flavor as far as I am concerned.

I like the flow, we seem to be players that all sync up pretty well and post so I'm for continuing. I can eep playing Jiang or move on to something else. I used to play clerics all the time, I would have no problem picking it up again. ;p

Umm, is this a bad time to ask for the xp we earned... if any... lol. :P (Joke)

I kind of ran with my idea and folded Aeshura and Olondir's idea of Juliet coming back into it, coming up with Safi Blackboot, smuggler with a grudge, Calistra's will made flesh, and Juliet-not-Juliet.

Also, Darkest Dungeon looks pretty cool - I'll have to pick it up!

Well Olondir I'll make it your call if Jiang is still alve or not, if not I have a couple of ideas, just let me know and I will put them together or we can move on and reconvene.

Well the good news is that everyone would have been level 2 as soon as you defeated Balston and (more importantly) figured out your next step!

1d20 ⇒ 5 (1:1)
1d20 ⇒ 17 (2:1)
1d20 ⇒ 10 (3:1) Jiang is unconscious but alive!

I doubt he'd stay alive for long though. He'll die if Tybalt doesn't intervene and drag your butt outta there. (Knowing Tybalt's style... he won't.)

I guess Roakkard will be the only one left of the original party.

Safi sounds like a great fit. Varisian paladin with which background? Criminal? Sailor?

I agree. Tybalt sees Juliet dead grabbing the semi dead monk doesn't seem high on his priority list, lol.

PA are you going to make something new? I have an idea for a cleric, a druid and a wizard but I don;t want to step on toes if any of those are something you were looking at...

So, ah, don't hate me, but I've been waffling all day on whether or not to take the Paladin offer, and I think I want to take it. I don't like cheating death, but I enjoy playing this character, so I think I'd like to give it another go.

Of course, Jiang, don't let me stop you from making a new character, if that is what you want to do.

Olondir, if Juliet lives, how would that work? I assume she'd still be in a very dire situation? 1 hp? Would I just trade out the fighter abilities for pally ones?

Sorry folks, for all the flip-flopping!

I'm thinking Bard or Barbarian if I do swap out from Tybalt, so none of those step on my potential toes.

I'm actually curious about your "death" and how it has or hasn't affected your family!

Right now I'm thinking or wondering if your father would have paid for your burial proper. If so, I could imagine Juliet waking up in the Grey Ward surrounded by a confused clergy of Pharasmites.

I think I'll keep Ty, and shift him into an avenger. He's going to urge caution more seriously to his new allies, and prioritize covering their backs instead of going after interesting people.

There's three things he'd want to do before the night ends, lemme know which I can take for granted, and I'll put up a post in Gameplay later.

1: Recover Spite, Juliet's rapier.
2: Take some coin from the Pauper's bag such that he can afford a hand crossbow (depends on how much coin the pauper has in there).
3: Shadow Balston home and murderize him if he's alone. Else, just know where he stays the night. Or if he's not relocating from the mission, learn that instead.

Well, assuming that enough time has passed for the burial and Juliet's body is found (and identified - shouldn't be too hard, with her entertainer background), yes, pops would pay for the burial - more out of a sense of decorum than love, but heh, it is something!