Limited Magic: Not playing a caster but it seems like a complicated overlay onto already complicated Pathfinder spellcasting.
RAE: RAE I think ends up being just another way of doing things. I don't think it's much simpler than the SAE especially since we had to add in one free Swift action to make a lot of class abilities function.
It *is* good for crit fishing though and it's nice to be rolling 2 extra attacks in a round especially as a monk that gets a lot of full BAB attacks. It also I think makes martials more mobile as there's no such thing as the 'full attack' that roots you in place. The same goes for enemies though.
The extra mobility works against more 'tactical' play though.
BUT one nice thing is that with three actions you can do things things like move, pick something up, use it, in one round. That's just not possible with the Move Action/Standard Action setup.
It also buffs martials as compared to spellcasters because you can still only ever cast one spell per round while martials can move and then attack twice or attack three times.
So I guess it comes down to personal preference about how deadly and mobile you want martial combat to be.
**
Speaking of deadly... Poision and Disease... I don't have Unchained on me right now and I've only experienced it as a Player on Lorick, Gehenna, and Sia and.. well, it seems to me that the deadlier unchained rules make lower levels even deadlier but would still be trivial to get rid of at higher levels. Considering low levels are pretty deadly anyway... I dunno? In all cases we basically just dropped everything as much as possible and tried to get cured and that's what would continue to happen.
I certainly don't want Sia to die right now of course but either way I think the PCs can get away from having poison be a big deal pretty soon by getting Tyenar to get Infusion (would be really appreciated Tyenar!) and having Delay Poison at hand to keep the effects at bay until we throw money at a cleric or a druid to get it cured. I'd say get rid of them.
**
ABP. Like it a lot. I think it needs a tweak where you get to decide whether you want to bump Mental stats first or Physical ones though and make that a one time choice at Level 4.
**
Background skills I think were a codification of the really common house character creation rules of 'Have two extra skill points but have to use them on fluff like Profession'.
How would you encourage well rounded characters with the extra skill points rather than just have the two extra skill points go to mainstays like Kn:Dungeoneering and Spellcraft etc? If that's not a concern than just getting two extra skill points would be fine.
Lore is great though.
**
VMC is an interesting one. It really comes down to if the Feat replacements of the VMC class are stronger than plain old feats. The Barbarian VMC is just really great for martials. Paladin on the other hand is terrrible.
RAE is disappointing because it wasn't really an effort to redesign the system, it's more like a different coat of paint on the existing system. As Lorick said, we already added swift actions back into the mix out of necessity.
Good stuff, everyone. I'll get the rest of Round 4 up tomorrow and on to Round 5.
Tyenar: there is no way, absolutely no way, I was ever going to let a PC take advantage of the Unchained poison rules - I'm not into high octane masochism, well, no more than anyone who DMs :-)
Um, wasn't the point of those rules to make poisons a viable option for players? Besides, I still think that hitting things is faster for killing. :(
In other news, I remembered why I had infusion ASAP in my notes: Alchemical Allocation is a thing. *Manic cackling*
Um, wasn't the point of those rules to make poisons a viable option for players?Good stuff, everyone. I'll get the rest of Round 4 up tomorrow and on to Round 5.
Tyenar: there is no way, absolutely no way, I was ever going to let a PC take advantage of the Unchained poison rules - I'm not into high octane masochism, well, no more than anyone who DMs :-)
Um, no. What on Golarion gave you that idea?
I agree with Lorick about the RAE: it does slightly improve martial types, especially TWF/flurry martial types, who don't need a full-round action to get off multiple attacks.
I'm open to keeping it.
So far it looks like:
Jettison
Limited magic and esoteric components/overclocking
Keep
Alternate craft/profession rules
Automatic Bonus Progression (with a tweak to let you choose whether physical or mental stats get bumped first)
Background skills (or at least, just add 2 skill points; if players want to put them into non-'background' skills I'm ok with that. There are never enough skill points)
Diseases and Poisons (possibly nerf the poison DCs slightly)
Scaling magic items
Skill unlocks
Stamina
Unchained classes
VMC
Undecided
Revised Action Economy.
I'm going to put it to a vote: keep RAE, or jettison?
Let's survive the battle first :p. Seriously can't Sia buy a decent Fort roll? She's gotten like 8 fail rolls in a row.
Lorick has one round of rage left that he should probably spend healing up.
Yep, this is a tough one. Nicely done, DMU.
Regarding RAE: What about the other option, the one that allows for iterative attacks?
What I like about RAE probably outweighs what I don't like. More actions per round = more options. Martials are whirling blades (or fists) of death, and that's pretty cool. I really like that mooks are more deadly. Think of this: 6 warrior 2s, a front line and a back line, phalanx style. Those Warrior 2s could feasibly be a big threat to mid-level PCs (well, those PCs that aren't wizards with fireball at least); give them reasonably high armor class and a total of 18 attacks, and they can take out some pretty strong opponents.
I do have two little nitpicks, however: 1) I'm not sure how it plays at high level. It seems Martials (at least those full BAB ones) actually get less attacks at high levels, though I suppose they still always have more actions, so that is probably a wash. 2) It doesn't really facilitate mobile fighting as you're still better off taking 3 attacks whenever possible.
Oh, and I agree with Lorick on background skills. The point is to put them into things you otherwise wouldn't. I'd have a hard time justifying continuing to sink points in sing, dance, and act*, for example, when I could be putting them into things like sense motive.
*Juliet's a triple threat!
How far away is Lorick from enemies?
A move action.
Posting this in all the games I'm in: I'll be without internet connection for the next three or so days, so bot me as necessary.
I was kind of hoping for some crowd control before Lorick decides what to do....
I'm running low on most of my abilities and my spell selection isn't the greatest right now.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Don't worry, I'm botting Tyenar - (s)he's got this ;-)
EDIT: OK, at least now we know where Sia's Fort rolls have been going. Sheesh.
Xenia & Lorick are up.
I'm going to go sulk a bit :_|
Hey DM. Maybe have us punch some dragons or something rather than write sappy novellas? :p
No more sappy novellas for you.
My condolences...
Just say the word, we can go all Pet Semetary up in this business.
Indeed, condolences, Lorick.
Not sure if I should go towards the children or towards the boss. Sophie's choices, man.
The children are tough, they'll figure themselves out. Lamm and the creature are the more pressing issue methinks.
^ good advice. Done!
Am I missing something with the concealment rolls?
^ It was in a spoiler at the beginning of the combat:
Unless you have low-light vision, everything down here is subject to Concealment rules: 20% miss chance, no sneak attack, etc. Darkvision doesn't help - it's not actually dark, just dimly lit.
Low-light vision doesn't get enough love, in my view.
That was in the pit. I'm fairly certain, at least.
Yeah. I think that was only for when Lorick was in the pit.
D'oh. Thanks. In that case there is one hit.
Just FYI: blinded/stunned is not the same as helpless, so no CdG is possible.
You'll be glad of this, in time (spoiler alert)
Any reason why we can't just retreat?
It's an open-ended game world; you're free to do almost anything (this includes the freedom to take the consequences, of course).
Have you got what you came for?
Well. We killed Lamm and the ships burning down around us. Maybe take the body with us as proof that he's dead and make sure he doesn't come back?
We do need proof of him colluding with the Ambassador. But the ship's burning. Maybe we beat on the Chittersnap to kill it while Tyenar searches?
Where would we search. Lamm's body, the dias?
I say 'we' but Lorick's in no state for much thinking :(
Also... Xenia's poisoned and poison is no joke :_(
Juliet wants to save the children, which probably means killing the gnome, or at least scaring off the rest of the bad guys.
My bet is the proof is in the throne or dias.
We've got to kill the monster. Can't let that thing roam around Korvosa.
As for the poison, not sure what to do about that, unless we've got another anti-toxin?
FWIW, giant spider venom isn't fatal. Nasty, yes, especially if you're in a fight, but not fatal.
Tyenar is the only person who has the smarts to know that IC probably. Hah.
I'll burn with g!%%*%ned ship rather than leave when I'm so close.
I can make Lamm speak to us but the ritual will take a minute and there's a very, very small chance it will be helpful. For now we should search his body real quick.
Evelyn searches the body?
Tyenar searches the dias, Xenia helps?
Juliet and Lorick try and put down the chittersnap
We take Sia and Lamm with us when we go?
We should probably also search Davor and Ladzlo for loot though that's much more optional.
How fast is the fire spreading anyway? How many rounds until it's uninhabitable?
I have create water. I can try and buy time.
I can pretty much offer only two things. Stabbing and talking. And one doesn't preclude the other. Juliet will go after the chitter.
I'm just waiting on Lorick and Tyenar. I'll bot Tyenar shortly.
Short post: give me half an hour, I'll be on a PC with a keyboard and an internet connection by then.
PS: Holy crap that crit!
Posting now.
Here I am, sorry for the wait. :(
Tyenar can search Lamm's dais, and if that yields no results, he can jump down into the chamber below: the deck below should be clear now that the crawlies got out, no?
Even if the upper floor starts to collapse/something bad like that happens, Tyenar can sit down for a minute to prepare an extract of Monkey Fish to get out: coupled with Featherfall and not having taken damage yer, I should be able to make it out alive.
Post coming right now.
Well, when we're finished, I could Diplomance a loan of 5000 GP from the church of Abadar for you, Lorick. Bettern than nothing. :/
We need an action plan.
Xenia: not always, but in combat it does speed things up considerably.
If you all prefer, I'll give you the DCs and let you roll for yourself in future.
We need an action plan.
"Break everything and set it on fire" has already been taken.
1 or 2 actions to go after hookshanks?
@Evelyn - sorry, should have said. It's 1 action.
@Everyone: I've been thinking some more about the RAE; and one of its key strengths is that it allows so many attack actions in a round. It's true that you take a -5 and -10 on subsequent attacks, but that's balanced out by the fact that you can take a flurry/TWF attack without needing a full round.
If you look at the number of times Lorick has needed to combine a flurry with a move, for example, and then figure that's 2 rounds' worth of actions in the "chained" action economy, we'd be in at least round 14 or so by now.
Given that this fight's already taken almost 3 weeks of real time, you'd be looking at nearly double that under the "chained" AE to have got to where you now are, with all the main bad guys dead.
Just a thought, but I'm moving towards being in favour of keeping the RAE.
Anyway, we can have a thorough review once this fight's over.
Xenia: good save. You still suffer the current effects, but the poison is not doing any further damage. It will take you two days of bed rest (complete rest) or 4 days of normal rest (8 hours sleep) to shake off the effects - a successful Heal check will halve this time.
Lorick: you're up.