Kingmaker PbP

Game Master Egoish

Boyscouts....

Well, that does explain why you play a pyromaniac. :P

Climb a tree is dc 15, which you can easily pass by taking 20. However normally you need 2 hands free to climb and can only take actions with 1 hand unless you have a climb speed, since archers shooting from trees is a pretty standard thing i'd guess it would take an acrobatics check dc10 every shot and if you fail by 5 or more you fall out of the tree.

I don't think you have the neccessary skills to build platforms up there at short notice.

I could climb with two hands and just have Silva hand me my crossbow once I'm settled. I would also think that shooting a crossbow would be easier than shooting a bow in a tree. Also, Arielle is more likely to cast a spell from in the tree if the boar is within her range.

You can shoot a crossbow one handed at -4, however casting wouldn't require an acrobatics roll.

Before I post, is there any realistic possiblity of digging and cnocealing a pit trap in any reasonable amount of time? It would have to be big enough to hold a pig as large as a person or more so about six feet deep and about four to six feet wide and long? And digging in muddy soil, and in the forest with roots growing everywhere? I think it would take days with one shovel, if possible at all. What is practical in say one to two hours, DM_Ego?

Possible yes, practical no. I'd say a well made pit trap would be a survival check dc15 and would take about 8 hours for one person. Using unskilled labour would add +2 per person but trying to get it down to 2 hours would probably take a dc25 check on the overseer.

The point is we might have 2 days before the pig shows up. We do not really know. Can't reasonably sit in a tree for 2 days. Might a well start digging just to pass the time. Maybe someone {Andrej?)could climb high enough to spot the pig on the way in to give us a warning?

The best points of cover would probably be the fallen trees or the trunks of trees themselves, the fallen trees would prevent the boar from charging you normally or the trunks would at least provide a -4 cover modifier if the boar charged next to you. Both would prevent it from making AoO's if you moved away as well.

Climbing a tree in a forest to spot a boar coming in on the ground probably won't increase your detection range, the maximum spotting distance in a forest is between 100 and 200 feet depending on the thickness of the undergrowth. So noticing something not approaching particularly stealthily is dc5 +1 per ten feet of distance, i always judge the distance the encounter starts based on your highest perception check based on that figure unless the creatures in the encounter are actively using stealth. Judging by your checks its going to startout a out 50ft away which is well within chage distance.

Lets have a decision on your locations on the map by tomorrow morning, this evening for all those state side.

Egan will help with a pit trap if one of the "biggers" wants to dig. He will take cover behind a fallen tree central to the group when he is not digging and be ready with his spells and crossbow.

Two trips I need to mention.

1) Taking kids to a convention this weekend so will not be posting a lot after about 7:00 tonight. Playing 6 slots of PFS. :) Will be back late Sunday.

And 2) I leave on the 13th of March for a two week trip celebrating a significant wedding anniversary (I am an old married guy :) ). Going to travel in Turkey. Not sure of price/availability of internet as I travel but will try to post at least evert other day during that time. Please bot me as needed.

Have fun at the convention and congrats on the anniversary. Turkey should be good.

Still stuck in India working insane hours.

Back from the con. Played 7 games. Wizard leveled to 12, which puts him into retirement as far as Pathfinder Society goes. Got to play with both kids a little. Good fun.

Nice, i'm always proud when a character retires but it always feels like a shame as well. No heroic blaze of glory, did you put aside enough for a pention and join the golf course?

I was planning unleashing the boar on you this morning while you were all stood in a cluster discussing what to do since no one has posted a place they would like to be ready, however since Egan has been away for the weekend and Andrej is busy in india i'll give you 10 hours to post a grid location. So by the time i get home from work today i'll be starting the encounter. Roll initiative when you post your grid as well please.

I'll map up this afternoon, i have a day of running around on interviews so i'm not going to have time until i get home. Sorry.

Interviews? Looking for a new job?

Yeah, i've had a year at newspaper advertising sales and the job is great as are the people. But sadly the company do not know their arses from their elbows, they want to run it like a call centre but when you have loads of regular customers you have to look after you can't do that.

I'm looking at going back into finance, maybe health insurance.

This is another attempt at the mythic rules to make a single monster fight a bit more challenging, unlike the bear the boar is all attack focused though so be prepared.

Your healing will be coming into play here i think. However after this encounter you will level up again!

I've started a new job this week so its been a bit hectic, i've not had time to drive the posting as i would like to but we've all been a bit slack this past couple of weeks.

Can we try to pick up the post count to twice a day? I can happily post in mornings and evenings and i have enough time on my lunch to update the thread, its just maps which will slow me down a little.

First, Congrats on the new job. Second, remember that I fly out tomorrow so you may have to bot me some for the next two weeks. I'll log in and post as can though. And 2 posts a day is typically no issue for me.

Thats cool, i know just as much as anyone that people have other stuff to do as well. I hope turkey is good for you.

I reckon i slacked off a bit when i was job hunting and you all followed my lead to be honest.

I am impressed how quickly you landed a job and started it. Likely you had been looking around, but still, from the time you told us you were looking to now was what, two weeks?

Took three days, and that includes two interviews. I was hoping for a little more time off but the start date was monday. A lot of people say its hard to find work but to be honest in sales if you have the ability its very easy to get a job, i'm pretty good at what i do and i know how to sell myself and doctor up a cv. :-)

I've actually got another interview on the go for another advertising job but the insurance company i just started at have a great bonus structure and benefits package, unless the new one has a great basic rate and commission i think i'll be staying where i am.

Arielle and I have a campaign where we post twenty times a day often. So we should be good.

All, this is a reminder that will be traveling for the next 13 days. Headed to the airport in a few minutes. I'll check in when I have internet but I do not know how often that will be. Please bot me as needed to not slow the game. Thanks!

Sorry, i was late home due to train issues so i did not get time to make a map. I think we can work from the most resent one as only Andrej has moved significantly, any issues or confusion i'll cover.

Hi all,

I should have good internet for the next two days and should be able to post regularly. We are at a nice hotel (Hotel Korumar in Kusadasi, where Homer was born) and are staying here for two nights. Having a good time here.

Oh, and sorry about not posting in Ignan. That is the hardest thing to remember for me in a PBP game. I think I would remember it better with more frequent posts.

Maksim-If you can see to shoot the pig, you should see Andrej spewing blood from a main artery. Right? You shouldn't need Egan's words.

I have to agree. Even a bless spell is more useful to the group than a wild shot. Egan will begin questioning your god very soon if you always fail to contribute to combat. You are much better healer than me but you for some reason leave the healing mostly to me...

If I may jump in and add a few words... the role of Cleric is a complex and evolving one... once upon a time (nearly 30 years ago I can still remember playing basic D&D), Cleric meant 'Healbot' with a minor side line in combat and in turning undead. Over the years it became 'Buffer' and 'healbot' but now days it can mean a lot of things including... Archer (just wait until he gets Zen Archery) if the player so wishes.

Not everyone wants to play the stereotypical 'Healer' (it certainly bores me a lot of the time unless we are playing E6 style games where clerics make credible combatants in their own right at level 4 or so) so I get he wants to break the mold somewhat and be something 'more'.

That said, until your archery skills improve Maksim you may want to think of different tactics as firing into Melee is tough.

I thnk I didn't expect so many trees and that sort of sodded up the archery ambush we all had in mind but melee in this case isn't the best option (unlike the bandit battle we had some time back) but it went that way fast - like it normally does...

I wasn't saying he had to heal. I was saying he could see you were in need of healing. He said he was unaware because of Egans language issues. With that said, letting a front line character sit at low hit points when a creature with two attacks is about to strike is dangerous. I am trying to avoid a character death. Heck if he wants to be an archer, I'll reroll cleric or oracle of life and he can roll a ranged fighter, ranger, or zen archer. In my opinion, ranged cleric does not work.

OK guys a lot of good points and a lot of ground to cover but I don't exactly see things the same way as all of you.

Oh, and sorry about not posting in Ignan. That is the hardest thing to remember for me in a PBP game. I think I would remember it better with more frequent posts.

Maksim-If you can see to shoot the pig, you should see Andrej spewing blood from a main artery. Right? You shouldn't need Egan's words.

When Egan made this error again, and the Dm called him on it, I did not want to seem influenced by Egan's statement so picked actions that could not tagged as related. Maybe overdid it but there are only so many times it can be overlooked. (Signed a Grumpy Grognard.)

You are much better healer than me but you for some reason leave the healing mostly to me...

Because I disagree on this point, a bit, the cleric's better healing is based on the channel power that has the disadvantage of healing even the opposition when used. Otherwise there is no difference in the class abilities. However with Sparky you are a bit more mobile than Maksim in many cases and since you are not playing Egan as a ranged combatant you do not tend to stand off at at distance and attack.

If I may jump in and add a few words... the role of Cleric is a complex and evolving one... once upon a time (nearly 30 years ago I can still remember playing basic D&D), Cleric meant 'Healbot' with a minor side line in combat and in turning undead. Over the years it became 'Buffer' and 'healbot' but now days it can mean a lot of things including... Archer (just wait until he gets Zen Archery) if the player so wishes.

Not everyone wants to play the stereotypical 'Healer' (it certainly bores me a lot of the time unless we are playing E6 style games where clerics make credible combatants in their own right at level 4 or so) so I get he wants to break the mold somewhat and be something 'more'.

That said, until your archery skills improve Maksim you may want to think of different tactics as firing into Melee is tough.

Thanks for the kind words, Andrej, you expressed well what I was attempting with Maksim. For one point, I am sorry if I risked your character unjustly by playing my character oblivously after Egan's comment, you shouldn't pay the price for his error. However on the archery skills point I firmly disagree. Maksim has these feats:

Point-Blank Shot
You get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet.

Precise Shot - No penalty for shooting into a melee.

They are what make him an archer and it's no more difficult for him to attack targets in melee than anywhere else. His poor results are because of horrible die rolling, not lack of skill. With the rolls I made, even if I was a fighter or ranger with archery specs etc., I'd still miss a barn, much less a "Boss."

I wasn't saying he had to heal. I was saying he could see you were in need of healing. He said he was unaware because of Egans language issues. With that said, letting a front line character sit at low hit points when a creature with two attacks is about to strike is dangerous. I am trying to avoid a character death. Heck if he wants to be an archer, I'll reroll cleric or oracle of life and he can roll a ranged fighter, ranger, or zen archer. In my opinion, ranged cleric does not work.

To make it clear, I, as a player, choose to have Maksim not see it due to Egan's repeated error. I also choose to build Maksim as an Archer/cleric right from the start for roleplaying reasons. Maksim doesn't think of himself as a cleric exactly, just a common huntsman that just happens to be a lay brother of Erastil. He is also not optimised in other ways, i.e. his high stat is Dex (16) not Wis (14). A choice I made carefully when building him. All in the profile from the get-go. I do not agree that a ranged archer cleric cannot work, however even Robin Hood would be ineffective with the rolls I have been making.

Resolution:
I'll play him a bit more strongly to get closer to people and am ready to heal with healing by not standing off so far. However, he is no better a tactical healer than Egan is. Using channel after the battle to heal is good and often done. I'll do more if the situation or the afflicted call for it. Also it would help the roleplaying if people that were hurt would call for help in combat. Maksim's friendly he will respond as quick as he can. I'll also continue Maksim's lessions in Ignan so he can understand Egan. Hope this is enough.

I'l listen to other advice but I've checked the feat Selective Channel and Ranged Spell, he either doesn't qualify or its benefits come at too high a price. I'm not sure how he could be improved without completely changing the character. I think I tied all his abilites and lack thereof into his background solidly, I don't see much wiggle-room without extensive changes. Could be wrong though, suggest away.

I do agree you have had unlcuky rolls Maksim, i can't remember the last time you rolled above a 12 to hit. I would not have minded if you had healed Andrej dispite Egan's slip as i do not think it fair to punish Andrej for Egan's error.

One thing i would put some thought into tactics as a whole for the entire group, casting buffs and using your abilities is going to start to become a fair bit more important shortly as your coming up to the meatier encounters. Bless and Enlarge Person are normally staples of low level combat as are armour buffs and control spells, Arielle has Colour Spray which is an amazing opener if you work your tactics a little to get Silva to hold, buff up, let Arielle open then let Silva begin the damage with his two handed smiting charge of doom.

Its not the way i'd expect every encounter to go but for an ambush like that fight i would have expected the boar to be lunch a lot faster. I don't mind it if my criters get an extra round or two before you blend them but i do worry a little about some of the upcomming encounters.

Maksim you have been a great role player. I just think archer/cleric is extremely sub optimal. It will only get worse as you advance in levels. Clerics do not get enough feats to keep up and you will have to ignore staple cleric feats. You will also not be an effective cleric taking archer feats. You have a low BAB progression and are only +4 to hit. Even with average rolls, you will miss probably 75% of the time. Egan was built as a fire oracle to help with damage. In my opinion, clerics are only good for support which is extremely useful to a party.

If you want to be even a decent archer, I would dump the cleric idea. It feels like you want to be an archer, but felt you had to be a cleric. You can be religious without being a cleric. Your character's personality is awesome! If you want to go archer, I will rebuild a support cleric. Arielle and Egan will start coming into their own soon damage wise and Andrej can tank.

Please do not take this wrong. I enjoy playing with you all, but we need traditional roles met.

BTW, I charged in to keep anyone from getting charged. I figured that would look ugly if he hit a caster!

Here is a support cleric build I offer for Silva. He would heal, support, and provide Andrej with a flanking partner. He has enough HP and AC to stand next to Andrej in battle. Opinions? DM Ego would you be OK with this if it allowed Maksim to enjoy his character more? If I am off base, I am sorry. I feel we need a support character for this group and everyone should play what they enjoy. Having characters we all enjoy may increase the posting rate.

Indeed it would Silva, spoiling all the fun...

If silva goes to cleric, maksim could be a great ranger focused on archery who worships erastil and gets a full BAB.

If silva goes to cleric, maksim could be a great ranger focused on archery who worships erastil and gets a full BAB.

I second this :)

I don't think theres really any need for Maksim to rebuild, i suspect has he levels cleric several of his buff spells will make up for the issues that come with building a cleric archer. He well miss out on a few standard cleric feats but lets be fair clerics aren't too feat intensive.

The dilution of focus doesn't always mean lack of effect and his +4 to hit bonus is +5 with point blank shot which is respectable next to Silva and Andrej's attack bonuses, i think he has been pretty unlucky with his rolls and should pump out bless a little more often. What you decide to do is up to you though, if Maksim wants to rebuild ranger we can discuss the changes further and arrange it.

+4 is tolerable at 2nd level, but we will leave him quickly as our BABs progress. Throw in Rapid shot (-2) and deadly aim (-1), which are necessary for progressive dmg, and he falls (-3) further behind us. We can also flank for another +2 (so net -5 behind us before his diminishing BAB). We do not have a bard to buff him. I think it will be very unfun. I can run the numbers if needed, but he will have difficulty hitting 75-80 percent of the time.

I am +6 (+8 with flank) so I am already +2 on him. So he will be -7/-9 after grabbing his necessary archery feats even BEFORE his diminishing BAB.

It is too MAD for a 15 point buy. IMO.

I know that an Archer Cleric is not 100% optimised, no "hybrid" is, but is is really extremely non-optimal? His feats are intended for archery, there are some nice, but as near as I can tell, no essential, feats needed for a cleric. Is BAB really the most important thing? The action economy is critical for any buffing class like a cleric. Time taken to buff is time not attacking or healing, not always a good trade when battles last only a few rounds. In those case where we control the start of battle, that is less important.

Note that Maksim is an Huntsman/Cleric, without story changes he cannot be changed much. Change a lot and he's a different character, I'd just make a different one.

I couldn't do what you did in so completely revising Silva, it would hurt my little brain too much. I do put more stock into role-playing then optimising. (I am a recovering Hero system person, for years now.) I don't want a totally ineffective character but it would not speak well of the system if it was really that bad.

Is it really that big a deal? I don't think he'll be completely useless, and I try to look for ways to do the healing in combat, but clerics, IMO are better after battle healers, bringing the group back up, quickly. And they should be able to do more than just be healbots. I'll check the "How to build X" guides again to see if I missed something.

The thing with the bab loss is that buff spells can make up for it, the challenge to playing a divine caster as a worthy combatant is finding a way to get those buffs up quickly when needed. Divine favour, animal buffs, divine power and righteous might all give a higher to hit and close the gap individually, two of them up could exceed either Silva or Andrej but they are action consuming. Don't forget at high levels Maksim will be casting greater magic weapon and smiting like a paladin with the right spell selection.

Party wide buffs like bless, prayer and some of the blessings are a lot more value overall though. Perhaps this could be an opportunity to grow Maksim from a huntsman with some clerical ability to major cleric of erastil who came from humble roots? That would preserve the identity of the character and could be accomplished through roleplaying and use of new abilities as he levels up. At level 4 you will be getting close to Jhod in power and experienc, eventually Erastils favour will make you more powerful even than him, the woodsman will have to deal with that when the time comes.

If Maksim wishes i can even put in some training with Jhod during the downtime after book 1 so he has a reason to reselect his feats if that is needed to make his character more effective, i think this would be a more organic growth and would let Maksim blossom. But of course that does depend on what Maksim wants to play.

Play what you would like. My point was we need support. Egan was created for damage and he is being forced to buff and heal so we survive.

Developing from a backwoods boy to accomplished hero and great religious leader was always the idea. Maksim starts very much out of his element and needs to grow to get there. Egan can ask Maksim for more help in the battle for divine aid and healing. Again this is more a matter of who takes which actions than the specific spells/abilities used. Egan can take more damamge causing actions and Maksim do more buffing. More than willing to have the group work it out.

As for retraining the feats, I'm open to that if someone suggests that to Maksim (not likely to think of it on his own really, still has the rural mindset,) but retrain to what feats? I'll think about what might help but many are not available to Maksim for qualification reasons, others may not help much.

"Egan's repeated error"???

Maksim, trying to put on a thick skin here as comments are not always meant as harsh as they sound in email, but, to say that you chose not to play well and endangered a fellow player because I forgot a curse effect that is easily played around is poor play, and makes me a little upset. And to say you did it because I continue to play my character in error is insulting. There was no reason to make that call other than you did not want to heal.

I will try to do better, but will likely forget again. I will trust you to ignore player knowledge and not sway your play in either direction with knowledge you do not have. But in this case you had to know that you could see such a wound as easily as I could. No roll was made or asked for to see the wound and you knew that when you chose to say you did not see it.

And I do not know how you have missed it, but my character IS a ranged damage fighter, and that will only get stronger. He shoots a crossbow and throws fire. He has out damaged your character in every single fight while doing more healing in every fight as well.

I am fine with your build and would prefer no one rebuild. All I ask is that you apply reasonable tactics and consider odds when you choose an action.

Sorry, Egan you're right, I'll leave it to the gamemaster to deal with such issues from now on. I'm willing to play my character in a number of ways that maintains consistancy, hopefully one of them can be useful. I see that you want to play your character as a damage dealer, though I do say he is a good tactical healer as well. I will certainly try to help you to play as you wish. How can I help?

Sorry haven't felt well all day today, still a work in progress but here is my thinking.

There are several areas both in and out of combat characters can contribute, combat, social, and enviromental. To broaden out Maskim I suggest, if DM Ego agrees, to take the cosmopolitian feat, to boost his perception, making for a better scout to suppliment Anza. This would allow Maskim to get the Ignan language without sacrificing skill points to it, migating any further issues. I keep his combat strength such as it is at archery, I hope someday to roll above a 12 in combat. I'll change tactics to be closer to the mainline fighters and start early and often buffing using archery only after buff and stuff is done.

Is everyone OK with that?

In character Maksim will come to the conclusion that Erastil means for him to do more than hunt and will try to make changes to follow Erastil's will.

Please ask questions or make comments now, before I make my in character post as it will be influenced.

DM-Ego are you OK with the cosmopolitan feat, some DMs are not?

I'm fine with it but its a terrible feat, not sure why people would have any issue with it. +3 to two skills and a couple of languages is overall about as powerful as the dual skill focus feats and they rarely if ever get selected outside of extremely specialist skill monkey builds.

I'd use a skill point for ignan and take a better archery feat if you intend to stick to archery, probably weapon focus to mitigate your bab loss but there are hundreds of feats better than cosmopolitan. I think the change in tactics and positioning should be enough but Silva is right about the MAD issues and BaB loss for archer clerics, your selections need to address those issues while keeping your other roles (healer and buffer) respectable.

Edit: Ideally you'd be aiming towards the guided hand feat but channel smite is a so so feat and there are not huge amounts of undead in this AP, plus you have high dex anyway so the gain would be minimal.

Edit2: Just to clarify as well the only person playing a very optimal build is Silva, and thats just because 18 str + 2h weapon = damage. Andrej's archtype is very thematical and interesting but not hugely powerful (gets better with levels), Egans gone for a hold its own blaster with some handy utility, Arielle hasn't selected any of the power sorcerer archtypes and since neither of them are human they're both missing the uber alternate favoured class bonuses. But you have selected a very hard build Maksim, i have no doubt archer clerics can be effective but they need a lot of tuning compared to our other players selections. I hope you don't feel picked on, i'm more worried about your enjoyment in the future when monsters have ACs to resist Silva and you may be having a hard time.

Even Tark's "archer cleric" is a support cleric with some archery. Archery gives you something to do levels 1-4. After that, clerics are awesome full casters! You will not need archery soon. Clerics do not make great scouts because when you get caught out front you are screwed. No stealth and no ability to defend if confronted face to face first. You really seem like you are looking for the ranger role instead of cleric. I am not suggesting you change. I am just making an assessment of your conversation. Scouting, archery etc. in a wilderness environment.

Cleric's are super support characters. They make everyone better. We had a bard shoot a rapid shot bow last night and do 21 damage round 1. Round 2 he casted hasted. Our "extra" attacks from haste added up to 235 damage. I count that as his damage. 235 versus 21. Playing support classes is just a different train of thought.

Maksim-You have been gracious through this whole conversation. I respect you a lot and I am glad we are playing pbp together ;)

BTW, I know Egan well. His oracle will be out shining us all soon ;) He is a sneaky character builder.

Tark's Cleric Guide